MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 04:50:30 PM

Title: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: mu03eng on June 23, 2014, 04:50:30 PM
The 90,000 seat arena, ill-suited for basketball, is prepared and lighted appropriately.  The media, filled with hyperbole and exaggerated opinions of players and themselves, are waiting.  The memes, well worn and tired, are waiting in the wings...cue dramatic music....it's about time for the Meme championship to get underway.

The voting will kick-off tomorrow morning, but to prime you for the match here is a recap of how we got to this particular match-up

Haikus
Haikus are loved by many and hated by many, but the love seemed to earn them a higher than anticipated 3 seed in the Good Clean American Fun Regional.  However through every match-up Haikus have seemingly proved their seed worthiness and have slayed some powerful memes along the way.  First up was a match against the play-in winner, Vatican Smoke.  Despite fresh legs, Haikus had a bit of a struggle with the Pope telling smoke, giving Haikus a narrower margin of victory in the tournament until the Final Four.  Fresh off the win over Smoke, Haikus faced what many(including this reporter) thought to be an insurmountable opponent in JFB.  JFB is as well a regarded nickname in MU history as you will find, but apparently had nothing of non-rhyming Japanese prose.  Haikus led the whole way and by a significant majority.  A late surge by JFB was easily turned aside, leaving Haikus with a marque win and battle tested going into the sweet sixteen.  In the sweet sixteen, Haikus faced a crowd favorite in Walking Boot, and were considered the underdogs, but again showing pundits wrong rode it's oddly confusing and difficult to master style to a large victory of the main MU piece of attire.  With that win, Haikus faced it's most surprising(from a seed standpoint) and most dangerous opponent, Beer Summit.  Beer Summit was the belle of the ball as a play-in winner that came out of no where to take down some real classic memes.  Beer summit even took down the number #1 overall seed in ____ is evil and must be destroyed, a true blood of memes.  Beer summit looked unstoppable and destined for the greatest story since that time Rudy read a story and was able to write a book report on it that got him a C that allowed him to attend Notre Dame forcing us to hear all about some stupid kid that played in roughly 12 seconds of game time and would be later glamorized in a movie played by a Hobbit.  Wouldn't it be ironic if the story Rudy read was the Hobbit...hmmm, anyway.  Beer Summit looked dominate, but Haikus still had more confusion pentameter in the bag and fought off any willingness to sit down and talk about it's issues over a beer in the backyard of Chico's backyard with Abraham Lincoln, Hoopaloop, and the Easter bunny's slow cousin.  And so, here stands the Haiku, ready to find it's place in glory and cement it's legend in Scoop lore.  The question is:

Haikus are daunting
Common people fail with ease
To accept their appeal

Tanned Tommy
The plucky daring of the Idiosyncrasies Region, Tanned Tommy brought all it's swagger and fake bake to the tournament.  In the opening round match-up the derisive nickname met up with it's interstate rival in Deflections, born of the same ooze, Tanned Tommy seemed to have baked long enough to intimidate the deflections into a convincing win.  However, this win simply put Tanned Tommy on a collision course with a tournament favorite and 2 seed, Tackling Dummy.  What unfolded next was unexpected and quite frankly a boat racing in Tanned Tommy's favor.  Jumping out to a lead so commanding, it appeared Tanned threw some votes Dummy's way just to not lap them twice.  Before Dummy knew what hit it,most likely Travis Diener, (...seee...see what I did there?) Tanned Tommy was spitting on it and punting it into the section that won the Digiorno's pizza from the eagle with fur.  With Dummy out of the way, Tanned Tommy seemingly swelled up with confidence(or being in the booth too long) and thoroughly trounced the 3 seeded Don't Mess with Happy.  To win the regional Tanned Tommy had to not get cut from the team and take out Creaned/Buzzcut/Boned.  Quite frankly, it wasn't close and there isn't much to tell, Tanned Tommy cake walked into the Final Four, where surely it would met an opponent worth of it.  In the Final Four, Tanned looked across the poll to see a shadow figure that can take on many shapes, Hoopaloop.  Hoopaloop, who kind of looked like the sort of something the Ghost Hunters claim is a ghost of video tapes and even after they circle and run it at a frame an hour you still aren't convinced it's anything other than a weird dust flake(do they really need to film in IR at night with no lights on, I mean, seriously), stepped into the voting booth as the team you love to hate.  Everyone hated the meme, but loved it all the same because it stood for every paradigm that was wrong with humanity.  And so, Tanned Tommy had to step out of his UV booth, having never truly been tested, and take on a meme on a mission to fill the world with bizarreness and borderline pathological lying.  However, overcoming of previous meme conventional thinking, Tanned Tommy slicked and oranged its way past the shadowy figure in Hoopaloop.  Not only did Tanned win, he won in utterly convincing fashion, sending Hoopaloop packing.  This dominant victory has to set up Tanned Tommy as the favorite in the championship.

So who do you have?  What was your favorite moment?  How is it all going to end?
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 23, 2014, 06:01:20 PM
Good Lord but the Tanned Tommy write-up is vintage Scoop. My a$$ fell off from laughing 10 minutes ago.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: patso on June 23, 2014, 06:43:03 PM
To me this is like watching a Notre Dame v Wisconsin game. The match I wanted was Mbakwe v Beer Summit
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: 🏀 on June 23, 2014, 07:26:31 PM
Not even voting, Mbakwe got hosed.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on June 23, 2014, 08:52:54 PM
Quote from: patso on June 23, 2014, 06:43:03 PM
To me this is like watching a Notre Dame v Wisconsin game. The match I wanted was Mbakwe v Beer Summit

Agreed
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: SoCalwarrior on June 24, 2014, 04:51:36 AM
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/kenwoodla/Picture2-3.png) (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/kenwoodla/media/Picture2-3.png.html)(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/kenwoodla/tan.jpg) (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/kenwoodla/media/tan.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: MUCam on June 24, 2014, 06:31:53 AM
Quote from: patso on June 23, 2014, 06:43:03 PM
To me this is like watching a Notre Dame v Wisconsin game. The match I wanted was Mbakwe v Beer Summit

Sadly, I couldn't agree more. I am not sure of who or what that is an indictment. Of the Final Four, three represented my least favorite squads.

Oh, well. Kudos to the finalists and all the hard work they put in to grind out this anti-climatic final.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: mu03eng on June 24, 2014, 08:39:13 AM
I think it speaks to the fact that the iceberg affect is fully on display at Scoop.  There are clearly a very silent minority that read but don't post that are influencing these decisions....or the dead are voting in Chicago....it's really either or.


Actually, that gets me thinking as well about the posting demographics at Scoop.  What is the average time of people on Scoop and what percentage of "users" on Scoop post at least 4 times a week or some arbitrary metric.  I'd guess that there are less than 30 posters that are responsible for at least 50% of the content on Scoop.  I'd love to see some sort of way to determine that.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2014, 12:35:29 PM
Really surprised at the disappointment about the matchup.  Honestly, I'd have felt the same way if Mbwake or especially Beer Summit made the finals.  Tanned Tommy has been such  a frequent and regular meme on this board for several years.  And while Haikus is new, where the heck else in the college sports world would you find posters exchanging barbs or "inside information" in the form of Japanese poetry?  Perfect!
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 12:40:17 PM
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2014, 12:35:29 PM
Really surprised at the disappointment about the matchup.  Honestly, I'd have felt the same way if Mbwake or especially Beer Summit made the finals.  Tanned Tommy has been such  a frequent and regular meme on this board for several years.  And while Haikus is new, where the heck else in the college sports world would you find posters exchanging barbs or "inside information" in the form of Japanese poetry?  Perfect!

I have two sons who live in Japan. I'm taking haikus plus the points.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 12:43:36 PM
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 24, 2014, 12:35:29 PM
Really surprised at the disappointment about the matchup.  Honestly, I'd have felt the same way if Mbwake or especially Beer Summit made the finals.  Tanned Tommy has been such  a frequent and regular meme on this board for several years.  And while Haikus is new, where the heck else in the college sports world would you find posters exchanging barbs or "inside information" in the form of Japanese poetry?  Perfect!

The haiku theme has been referenced and cited by other fan bases on their respective sites. Some find it odd, many think it humorous, but all find it distinctive and unique to the Marquette fan base and Scoop.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 12:45:00 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 12:40:17 PM
I have two sons who live in Japan. I'm taking haikus plus the points.

Honto? Doko ni sunde iruka?
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 01:12:23 PM
Quote from: keefe on June 24, 2014, 12:45:00 PM
Honto? Doko ni sunde iruka?

If Honto? means where, Tokyo. My oldest son has been there 8 years and is the principal at an international school. My youngest has been there a little over a year. Teaching English on what is probably a two or three year adventure.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 01:16:44 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 01:12:23 PM
If Honto? means where, Tokyo. My oldest son has been there 8 years and is the principal at an international school. My youngest has been there a little over a year. Teaching English on what is probably a two or three year adventure.

It means "really?"


And though my Japanese is rusty, I believe the correct Romanji should be hontou.  In Hiragana, it is written  ほんとう



Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: chapman on June 24, 2014, 01:31:48 PM
Haikus are good fun
But Chicos' idol wins it
Fake tans are back in


Midnight limo rides
Different types of son-kissed
Been thinking of you

Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: 🏀 on June 24, 2014, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: chapman on June 24, 2014, 01:31:48 PM


Midnight limo rides
Different types of son-kissed
Been thinking of you



Winner.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: chapman on June 24, 2014, 01:31:48 PM
Haikus are good fun
But Chicos' idol wins it
Fake tans are back in


My daughter isn't up for the award, but she should.  Has a lame tan, however, which is good considering her condition.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 01:56:34 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 01:12:23 PM
If Honto? means where, Tokyo. My oldest son has been there 8 years and is the principal at an international school. My youngest has been there a little over a year. Teaching English on what is probably a two or three year adventure.

Which International School? Our kids and I attended St Mary's and are all active in the alumni network.  

Really cool your boys are grabbing life by the nads and making it an adventure. Tokyo is likely one of the more difficult places to live in Asia so more power to them. Make sure you and your bride get over there to visit. Japan is a fascinating place.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 01:16:44 PM
It means "really?"


I believe the correct Romanji should be hontou. 

Uh, no.

Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: chapman on June 24, 2014, 01:31:48 PM
Haikus are good fun
But Chicos' idol wins it
Fake tans are back in


Midnight limo rides
Different types of son-kissed
Been thinking of you




son kissed on the lips
or sun kissed dermal layer
which is more bizarre
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 02:02:08 PM
undeserved trophies
and embarrassing kisses
the life of Riley
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: tower912 on June 24, 2014, 02:06:02 PM
Defending "Redskins"
Thinks he's vicariously
Protecting Tommy
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 02:10:04 PM
rich mahogany
cocoa butter in the air
the smell of victory
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 02:19:08 PM
Quote from: keefe on June 24, 2014, 01:56:34 PM
Which International School? Our kids and I attended St Mary's and are all active in the alumni network.  

Really cool your boys are grabbing life by the nads and making it an adventure. Tokyo is likely one of the more difficult places to live in Asia so more power to them. Make sure you and your bride get over there to visit. Japan is a fascinating place.

Kais. I think the school is only maybe 20 years old. I'll ask them about St Mary's. I am very proud of them - taking the road less traveled and stretching oneself is rewarding but initially a little daunting. We've been over there twice, the last time we took the whole family. Fascinating, indeed.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 24, 2014, 02:34:32 PM
What a terrible final
Count these letters up
Who gives a crap?
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 02:42:54 PM
Quote from: Henry Sugar on June 24, 2014, 02:34:32 PM
What a terrible final
Count these letters up
Who gives a crap?

when it comes to art
devotees of statistics
just don't understand
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 03:04:46 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 02:19:08 PM
Kais. I think the school is only maybe 20 years old. I'll ask them about St Mary's. I am very proud of them - taking the road less traveled and stretching oneself is rewarding but initially a little daunting. We've been over there twice, the last time we took the whole family. Fascinating, indeed.

That's a newer school I am thinking. It's scary but I haven't lived in Tokyo in a dozen years now.

More power to your kids. I love to see young Americans getting out and experiencing the world. There is no better way to improve our image as a people than to have our best and brightest represent us on a daily basis in simple yet profound ways. And to bring those insights back to these shores only makes us a more intelligent, accepting, and discerning people.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 03:08:03 PM
Quote from: Henry Sugar on June 24, 2014, 02:34:32 PM
What a terrible final
Count these letters up
Who gives a crap?


a poet sees grace
the accountant sees numbers
statistics are blind
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 24, 2014, 03:15:13 PM
Summertime on Scoop
Meme Tournament to pass time
Soon Marquette Madness
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 03:24:33 PM
Quote from: keefe on June 24, 2014, 03:04:46 PM
That's a newer school I am thinking. It's scary but I haven't lived in Tokyo in a dozen years now.

More power to your kids. I love to see young Americans getting out and experiencing the world. There is no better way to improve our image as a people than to have our best and brightest represent us on a daily basis in simple yet profound ways. And to bring those insights back to these shores only makes us a more intelligent, accepting, and discerning people.

Amen, brother Keefe.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 24, 2014, 03:33:51 PM
It is entirely appropriate to compare these two finalists to a UW vs ND game. I'm not even voting. However, regardless of what I think of the two finalists, I'd like to thank mu03eng for pulling this entire tournament together.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/standing-ovation.gif)

It's not too late to pull a FIFA and have Mbakwe declared the winner.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: 77ncaachamps on June 24, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
Haikus about Tanned Tommy?!

A TIE!
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: mu03eng on June 24, 2014, 03:44:16 PM
Quote from: Henry Sugar on June 24, 2014, 03:33:51 PM
It's not too late to pull a FIFA and have Mbakwe declared the winner.

I'm considering accusing Tanned Tommy and Haikus of Luis Suarez'ing each other and having Mbakwe coming in to settle it.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: keefe on June 24, 2014, 01:57:45 PM
Uh, no.



Doesn't mean really?  Or isn't hontou, but honto?


I'm 99.999% sure it means "really", though my Japanese is rusty.   I was taught hontou, not honto.   

Hontou desu ka 本当ですか
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 05:43:42 PM
Beautiful Redskin
Honor Your Fantastic
Stronger Ever Nickname
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 05:48:49 PM
Somnolent buzzard
squirmy in victory
chicken so bizarre
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: chapman on June 24, 2014, 06:32:30 PM
This thread shifts the tide
Creepy tan guy going down
Let the match begin!
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 06:47:30 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 05:25:19 PM
Doesn't mean really?  Or isn't hontou, but honto?


I'm 99.999% sure it means "really", though my Japanese is rusty.   I was taught hontou, not honto.   

Hontou desu ka 本当ですか

You were correct on Honto meaning really, though it is idiomatic and can be used to express surprise, emphasis, doubt, suspicion, or pleasure. It is a milder form of the idiom, "Ara" which is more similar to our "WTF?/!/..."

My comment was on adding the oo ending to which makes it a statement of fact rather than an idiom. No big deal. I sometimes forget silly words in Japanese as I don't use it daily. It was nice when my wife was around as we actually spoke it daily.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 06:53:44 PM
meme tournament
not bad for a navy puke
one for the ages
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 07:59:17 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 05:43:42 PM
Beautiful Redskin
Honor Your Fantastic
Stronger Ever Nickname

a racist nickname
celebrated by a fool
beyond pathetic
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 09:13:08 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 07:59:17 PM
a racist nickname
celebrated by a fool
beyond pathetic


Calling all those Native Americans racist and fools for supporting the nickname that they do.  Now, that is truly pathetic.  Especially since you don't have a single drop of Native American blood in you.  Calling them dumb, foolish, racist.  Not surprising.

And your Haiku doesn't conform properly, which makes it even funnier....and pathetic.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 09:40:36 PM
Merciful lawsuit
assault your coverup
buzzard ever shameful
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 09:41:34 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 09:13:08 PM



And your Haiku doesn't conform properly, which makes it even funnier....and pathetic.

Still can't count?
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 09:45:51 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 09:40:36 PM
Merciful lawsuit
assault your coverup
buzzard ever shameful

5-6-6?

Still can't count? It's 5-7-5. As dumb as you are unfunny. LOL.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: wadesworld on June 24, 2014, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: keefe on June 24, 2014, 03:08:03 PM

a poet sees grace
the accountant sees numbers
statistics are blind


What does the poetic accountant see?

Or the English major working as an accountant?

At any rate, if haikus had been as good in the regular season as they have been in the NCAA Tourney there may not be as much controversy surrounding their selection into the tourney and their deep tourney run that followed. Is their point guard starving?
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 09:47:41 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 05:43:42 PM
Beautiful Redskin
Honor Your Fantastic
Stronger Ever Nickname

5-6-6

Wrong again. This is fun.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: wadesworld on June 24, 2014, 09:50:00 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 09:47:41 PM
5-6-6

Wrong again.

Lenny's obsession
Chicos hide the wife and kids
He may be outside
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 09:41:34 PM
Still can't count?

I can count fine, the problem is that you are assuming it is tied to syllables, when a traditional haiku is not.  Part of the westernization of the haiku.  It is based using ons, which doesn't always translate to syllables.  For example, 17 ons equals roughly 12 syllables.  It's cool, we're all violating it.  You learn this in Japanese literature like I did in graduate school at KU.

Now please stop calling Native Americans racist, dumb, stupid, foolish for supporting that nickname.  It's not becoming of you.

Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 10:11:38 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 09:13:08 PM

Calling all those Native Americans racist and fools for supporting the nickname that they do.  Now, that is truly pathetic.  Especially since you don't have a single drop of Native American blood in you.  Calling them dumb, foolish, racist.  Not surprising.



all words have meanings
read any dictionary
the truth trumps all polls

5-7-5, see?

I can't speak for the Native Americans. I don't know what questions were asked in the poll and whether those asked are aware that redskin is by definition a racial slur.

But I do know that the word is a racial slur. And you do too. So I won't celebrate it. You will. There's a name for that, and hiding behind a poll doesn't change it.

Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 09:53:43 PM
I can count fine, the problem is that you are assuming it is tied to syllables, when a traditional haiku is not.  Part of the westernization of the haiku.  



LOL. Westernized versions? Maybe you should write yours in Japanese. Couldn't be less clever.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: kalkbird on June 24, 2014, 10:29:32 PM
nm
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 10:32:59 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2014, 10:18:44 PM
LOL. Westernized versions? Maybe you should write yours in Japanese. Couldn't be less clever.


Similar to you not knowing what you were talking about on lawsuits and MU the other day, you have again gone into an arena for which you are not quite informed.  It is not 5, 7, 5 syllables, it is 5, 7, 5 Moras (phenome) which can mean FEWER syllables.   :P

This might help you.  Nice little discussion, but there are many others.  Oh, and you're welcome...again.


http://www.poetrycobourg.ca/discuss09.htm



Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 10:54:59 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 24, 2014, 10:32:59 PM
Similar to you not knowing what you were talking about on lawsuits and MU the other day, you have again gone into an arena for which you are not quite informed.  It is not 5, 7, 5 syllables, it is 5, 7, 5 Moras (phenome) which can mean FEWER syllables.   :P

This might help you.  Nice little discussion, but there are many others.  Oh, and you're welcome...again.


Alright, here's the bottom line: while Chico is technically correct, the accepted convention for westernized haiku is the 5/7/5 construct. There are exceptions but these must conform to specific 17th Century kigo conventions. Writing proliferated during the Shogunate era for two reasons - peace and the rise of vernacular as an accepted literary form.

So, something as basic as this (I am making this up as I go along so bear with me) conforms with accepted kigo:

winter
spring
rebirth

But as with all things Japanese the protocols for westernized haiku must adhere to the 5/7/5 convention in order to be classified as haiku. What I drafted above, if written in Kanji, would meet the haiku standard but since it is in English then strictly speaking it does not. Remember, the Japanese have a separate alphabet for foreign or borrowed words so writing a Japanese literary form in a foreign language must conform to some standard which is now the 5/7/5 protocol.

So, Chico is technically correct though not in practice. Therefore, Lenny carries this one in a squeaker.
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 24, 2014, 11:03:58 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on June 24, 2014, 09:46:48 PM
What does the poetic accountant see?

Or the English major working as an accountant?

At any rate, if haikus had been as good in the regular season as they have been in the NCAA Tourney there may not be as much controversy surrounding their selection into the tourney and their deep tourney run that followed. Is their point guard starving?

b a in brit lit
went back for an m b a
better balance sheet

Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 25, 2014, 12:01:34 PM
Quote from: keefe on June 24, 2014, 10:54:59 PM


But as with all things Japanese the protocols for westernized haiku must adhere to the 5/7/5 convention in order to be classified as haiku. What I drafted above, if written in Kanji, would meet the haiku standard but since it is in English then strictly speaking it does not. Remember, the Japanese have a separate alphabet for foreign or borrowed words so writing a Japanese literary form in a foreign language must conform to some standard which is now the 5/7/5 protocol.

So, Chico is technically correct though not in practice. Therefore, Lenny carries this one in a squeaker.

Thanks, Keefe. So what you, I and virtually everyone else have been composing are accepted westernized (we are, after all, westerners) versions of the haiku (5/7/5). And the 5/6/6 construct isn't a haiku at all, westernized or otherwise?
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: mu03eng on June 25, 2014, 01:37:41 PM
Quote from: keefe on June 24, 2014, 06:53:44 PM
meme tournament
not bad for a navy puke
one for the ages

Complements are welcome
Even from someone with wings o'lead
All prefer wings o'gold
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: keefe on June 25, 2014, 05:52:16 PM
Quote from: mu03eng on June 25, 2014, 01:37:41 PM
Complements are welcome
Even from someone with wings o'lead
All prefer wings o'gold

earned the wings of gold
spent time on midway maru
nav air is sh1t hot
Title: Re: 1st Scoop Meme Tournament Championship game - How did we get here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 12:03:50 AM
Quote from: keefe on June 24, 2014, 10:54:59 PM
Alright, here's the bottom line: while Chico is technically correct, the accepted convention for westernized haiku is the 5/7/5 construct. There are exceptions but these must conform to specific 17th Century kigo conventions. Writing proliferated during the Shogunate era for two reasons - peace and the rise of vernacular as an accepted literary form.

So, something as basic as this (I am making this up as I go along so bear with me) conforms with accepted kigo:

winter
spring
rebirth

But as with all things Japanese the protocols for westernized haiku must adhere to the 5/7/5 convention in order to be classified as haiku. What I drafted above, if written in Kanji, would meet the haiku standard but since it is in English then strictly speaking it does not. Remember, the Japanese have a separate alphabet for foreign or borrowed words so writing a Japanese literary form in a foreign language must conform to some standard which is now the 5/7/5 protocol.

So, Chico is technically correct though not in practice. Therefore, Lenny carries this one in a squeaker.

We were taught that 5 7 5 was for Japanese Haikus.  English, tries to conform but not always.  This sums it up well and one of the first things we were taught in Japanese Literature class when just about everyone answered incorrectly with the 5 7 5 answer.   ;D  Damn westernizing.  I'll take being technically correct, especially when it has been taught incorrectly for decades in this country. 

(http://www.nahaiwrimo.com/_/rsrc/1294484414376/home/why-no-5-7-5/No%205-7-5.jpg?height=320&width=320)

This does a good job of writing it up:

You may have thought that haiku was supposed to be 5-7-5, so what's up with the NaHaiWriMo logo? Is haiku 5-7-5 or not? Well, yes and no. In Japanese, yes, haiku is indeed traditionally 5-7-5. But 5-7-5 what? In English and other languages, haiku has mistakenly been taught as having 5-7-5 syllables, but that's not really accurate. You probably aren't in the mood for a linguistics lecture that explains all the reasons why, but Japanese haiku counts sounds, not strictly syllables. For example, the word "haiku" itself counts as two syllables in English (hi-ku), but three sounds in Japanese (ha-i-ku). This isn't how "haiku" is said in Japanese, but it is how its sounds are counted. Similarly, consider "Tokyo." How many syllables? Most Westerners, thinking that Japan's capital city is pronounced as "toe-key-oh," will say three syllables, but that's incorrect. It's actually pronounced as "toe-kyo." So two syllables, right? Actually, no. Rather, it counts as "toe-oh-kyo-oh"—four syllables. Or rather, sounds.
       There are other differences, too. For example, if a word ends with the letter "n," that letter is counted as a separate sound (all words in Japanese end with vowels, or sometimes the "n" sound). So how many sounds are counted in the word "Nippon," Japan's name for itself? It actually counts as four sounds (nip-p-on-n). And consider words that Japanese has borrowed from other languages, and how they gain more sounds in Japanese. For example, "Christmas" (with its consonant clusters) becomes something like "ka-ri-sa-ta-ma-su" or "ka-ri-sa-ma-su." In The Haiku Apprentice, Abigail Friedman points out that "scarf" becomes "su-ka-a-fu"—an increase from one syllable to four sounds. In The Poetics of Japanese Verse, Koji Sakamoto uses the word "sign" as a further example. We would count it as one syllable, but the Japanese would count it as three sounds (sigh-ya-n). Sure, some words have the same number of sounds (for example, "sushi" is two sounds or syllables in both languages), but there are enough words that count differently for practically all translators, linguists, scholars, and leading haiku poets to say and show that about 10 to 14 syllables is approximately equal to the 17 sounds they count in Japanese haiku. If you're writing a poem of 17 syllables in English, you're actually writing something that contains significantly more content than 17 sounds contains in Japanese.
      Furthermore, Japanese has another difference that makes 5-7-5 syllables sort of an "urban myth" for haiku in English. In addition to counting sounds and syllables differently, most Japanese words tend to have more sounds or syllables than their English counterparts. For example, when we say "cuckoo" (two syllables), the Japanese say "hototogisu" (five syllables). Some Japanese words have the same number of syllables as their English equivalents (and occasionally fewer), but a great majority of Japanese words have more syllables than the same concepts in English. In Japanese, every consonant is pronounced with a vowel (with the exception of the "n" sound, which is counted as a separate sound at the ends of words and in certain other cases, as already mentioned). Quite simply, because Japanese words have more syllables, you can say a lot more in 17 syllables in English than you can in Japanese. That's why, if you write a 17-syllable haiku in English, more often than not one entire line of its three lines will have to be amputated to make the poem fit 17 sounds in Japanese (if you translate it). Thus, despite the way haiku has been widely mistaught in English for decades as 5-7-5 syllables, it actually should not surprise you that the vast majority of haiku published in leading haiku journals and anthologies are not 5-7-5.
       Another factor to be aware of is that the misguided focus on 5-7-5 syllables in English puts excess emphasis on form, to the great detriment of content and other strategies necessary to writing haiku. Two of these strategies, often completely ignored and not taught in Western schools, are the use of a kigo, or season word, and a kireji, or cutting word, and they are just two of the vital aspects of haiku that make this art much more challenging than most people realize. In his book Empire of Signs, Roland Barthes said that "Haiku has this rather fantasmagorical property: that we always suppose we ourselves can write such things easily."
       Specifically, a haiku tries to invoke the time of year with a word that is typical of that season, such as snow for winter, or frog for spring. In Japanese, lists of season words have become highly sophisticated, and have been collected into numerous references works called saijiki, which include the season words, explanations, and sample poems. Some saijiki (the word, like haiku, is both singular and plural) are as big as encyclopedias. Saijiki are also available as dedicated electronic devices, or as applications for mobile phones and computers. Japanese haiku poets routinely consult a saijiki to see that they've used their kigo correctly. Season words serve not only to ground the poem in a particular season, but to allude to other poems that have employed the same season word.
       And then consider the kireji, which literally means "cutting word." In Japanese, traditional haiku include words that function like a spoken sort of punctuation. More importantly, they cut the poem into two parts, creating a sort of juxtaposition, not only grammatically but also imagistically. The point is to carefully pair two images together in such a way that a shift or disjunction occurs between them. The art of haiku lies in creating the right amount of distance between the two parts, so the leap is neither too far (and thus obscure) or too close (and thus too obvious). By focusing on concrete images rather than judgment or analysis, the two juxtaposed parts of a haiku allow the reader to feel what the poet felt, without the poet telling the reader what to feel. In fact, that's a really good piece of advice to remember as you write your own haiku: Don't write about your feelings. Instead, write about what caused your feelings.
       The point of haiku is indeed to convey feeling, not ideas, concepts, or judgments. Consider this haiku of mine, which won first place in the 2000 Henderson haiku contest, sponsored by the Haiku Society of America:

       meteor shower . . .
       a gentle wave
       wets our sandals

How do you feel when you read this poem? Do you feel the surprise of the tide turning, thus wetting your sandalled feet? Do you feel the moment's summerness? Do you notice the effect of the word "our," which makes this a shared rather than solitary experience? Even if you've never been to the ocean, I hope you can feel the enthrallment with the meteor shower, and then the surprise wetness from a wave, showing how nature, in this case through the changing tide, caused by the gravitational pull of celestial objects, can touch us in unexpected ways. A good haiku will make you realize something that you always knew but might have forgotten. A haiku takes you back to yourself, back to who you are, and what it's like to be human—to your "falling leaf nature," as translator R. H. Blyth put it. And you make this realization emotionally, not intellectually. You also bring a lot of yourself to each haiku, which is sometimes called an "unfinished" poem because of what it leaves out. And what you bring to each poem is how you have personally experienced your world through your senses. Thus haiku poems are about the five senses, and how you take in the world around you through those senses. In other words, the haiku is about what takes place outside you. It is generally not about what you think about the experience or how you interpret it, at least not for beginners.
       So, why the "no 5-7-5" logo for NaHaiWriMo? Quite simply, to make people think about their presumptions with haiku. If the concept is new to you that haiku shouldn't necessarily be 5-7-5, then the logo has done its job, making you stop and question it. At the very least, it will hopefully have given you something to think about. So why not give haiku a try with a goal other than 5-7-5 in mind? Indeed, the point of the "no 5-7-5" NaHaiWriMo logo is to emphasize that it's a widespread misunderstanding to think of haiku merely as anything written in 5-7-5 syllables. Remember, 5-7-5 does not a haiku make. For more explanation of this matter, please read Keiko Imaoka's "Forms in English Haiku," John Dunphy's "What Is Haiku—And What Isn't," and my own essay, "Becoming a Haiku Poet" (links below).
       And do give NaHaiWriMo a try! Let yourself write freely, if you wish, all month long in February—or at any other time if February is too far away. Each day, or at the end of the month, you could look closely at your haiku and ask yourself the questions outlined in the "Haiku Checklist." As with any art, your first attempts may not be the most successful, but it's worthwhile to persist in learning and studying haiku, because few poetic forms manage to capture life's joys and pleasures (and also its sadnesses) as well as haiku. And, as William J. Higginson, author of The Haiku Handbook, has written, the real purpose of haiku is to share them. So why not join others who are trying their hand at writing haiku daily this February, and share the poems you write with others?
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