http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24592329/new-faces-new-places-why-did-buzz-williams-leave-marquette-for-vtu?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Fascinating stuff in this well-written piece.
"The way Buzz thinks is different," Chew said. "He just thinks differently."
"Simply put, once Williams decided to go into what he called an "information-gathering mode," his mind wouldn't rest until he had more data than you can imagine. He projected the likelihood of basketball programs not connected to football programs flourishing over the next 10 years in this ever-changing climate of college athletics. He studied how many programs succeed at a high level without some sort of ESPN contract. He estimated whether it was reasonable to expect the next six years at Marquette would duplicate or exceed the previous six. He researched every coach who has been at a high-major program for at least eight seasons to the point where he learned that staying in the same place too long in this era -- especially when you'll be inheriting a new athletic director soon, like he would've been at Marquette -- proves to be a mistake more often than not for most men."
"The second interesting thing was how often Williams began a sentence in that meeting with the words "when they fire me" because I've never heard a coach, particularly a successful one who has never been on the so-called hot seat, speak that way, especially not a coach with a fresh contract. And yet he said it over and over again."
"When they fire me. When they fire me. When they fire me."
We all knew what Buzz was about while he was here. There is a fine line between genius and insanity. With that being said, and as I have previously stated, I will still root for him (and Crean) at their new schools. He did a lot of good things here.
Besides, we now have the Wojo Warriors to root for!
Not a single word in this article surprises me. And it was never a surprise to me why he left Marquette for VPI.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 19, 2014, 10:34:21 AM
Not a single word in this article surprises me. And it was never a surprise to me why he left Marquette for VPI.
I'd say it is fair to assume Buzz doesn't like being a front runner...has been an underdog his whole life...being at the top, and being expected to maintain that...probably is too much pressure for such an OCD individual..who also thrives in the underdog role.
Ironically, last season, he was for once given the respect he felt he was due, by his fellow coaches in the Big East...projected to win conference....and he turned in the biggest bomb of his 6 years at Marquette....and it was a bomb of epic proportions...given the talent he had on the roster....that...incidentally he put together.
God, I'm glad he's gone. All his toughness BS rings so hollow.
Have fun with him, VPI.
So basically, Buzz was scared.
Quote from: Ners on June 19, 2014, 10:45:52 AM
I'd say it is fair to assume Buzz doesn't like being a front runner...has been an underdog his whole life...being at the top, and being expected to maintain that...probably is too much pressure for such an OCD individual..who also thrives in the underdog role.
Ironically, last season, he was for once given the respect he felt he was due, by his fellow coaches in the Big East...projected to win conference....and he turned in the biggest bomb of his 6 years at Marquette....and it was a bomb of epic proportions...given the talent he had on the roster....that...incidentally he put together.
Agree. He fought so hard for success and respect, he didn't know how to handle it once he got there.
The obsession that Parrish has with Buzz is odd.
Buzz has never played in the National Championship game...never even been to the Final Four...yet GP writes about Buzz 6-8 times a year. It's weird.
For every Buzz who will never be satisfied with his position, there's a Shaka who is dedicated to his program and university.
Quote from: mugoose on June 19, 2014, 11:00:07 AM
The obsession that Parrish has with Buzz is odd.
Buzz has never played in the National Championship game...never even been to the Final Four...yet GP writes about Buzz 6-8 times a year. It's weird
I tend to think its just that Buzz is one of the more colorful coaches in college basketball...he is a great interview (so long as Buzz likes the journalist)...his self professed weirdness and such provides great quotes/soundbites, etc. Perhaps nothing more. I enjoyed his colorful personality...sideline dances, half court two steps, etc...he was awesome at his best....yet became insufferable last year at his worst.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 19, 2014, 11:07:30 AM
For every Buzz who will never be satisfied with his position, there's a Shaka who is dedicated to his program and university.
I think a better way of putting it is "For every Buzz who is constantly seeking comfort, there is a Shaka who sees comfort where he is."
Remember Shaka would be at MU if we would have done more to get him.
For every insecure Buzz, there's a Boeheim, Coach K, Greg Kampe, Bob McKillop, Stew Morrill (HA!), Rick Barnes (Double HA!), etc.
Coaches who have weathered storms and by doing so, helped define who they are, make their comeback successes sweeter and reveal their character.
""See, it goes Grover Cleveland, then Benjamin Harrison, then Grover Cleveland," Williams said. "Grover Cleveland did it twice. He's the only President that you count twice.""
FDR...FDR...FDR...FDR That's four.
Reagan, Reagan
Clinton, Clinton
GHWBush, GHWBush
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 19, 2014, 11:07:30 AM
For every Buzz who will never be satisfied with his position, there's a Shaka who is dedicated to his program and university.
You can have Shaka. Half the success and twice the diva of Buzzard.
#AllInOnWojo
Quote from: The Lens on June 19, 2014, 11:28:01 AM
You can have Shaka. Half the success and twice the diva of Buzzard.
#AllInOnWojo
Not extolling Shaka, but he sticks by his A10 team. A program that doesn't have a top 5 budget.
A program that is hard to win at. A program he helped craft and define.
I think Buzz is motivated by an immense fear of failure.
He decided to get out while he was ahead, because he was so afraid at failing to live up to expectations he had set.
It all makes a lot of sense.
"Simply put, once Williams decided to go into what he called an "information-gathering mode," his mind wouldn't rest until he had more data than you can imagine. He projected the likelihood of basketball programs not connected to football programs flourishing over the next 10 years in this ever-changing climate of college athletics. He studied how many programs succeed at a high level without some sort of ESPN contract. He estimated whether it was reasonable to expect the next six years at Marquette would duplicate or exceed the previous six. He researched every coach who has been at a high-major program for at least eight seasons to the point where he learned that staying in the same place too long in this era -- especially when you'll be inheriting a new athletic director soon, like he would've been at Marquette -- proves to be a mistake more often than not for most men."
I work in the investment business and I see this type of flawed analysis all the time. Simply put Buzz wasted his time seeing how thing have worked and assumes nothing will ever change and the past will keep repeating over and over.
----
Will ESPN have the same clout and influence over the next 10 years? Will Fox Sports remain second tier sports channel or will it do to sports programming what Fox News did to cable news? Will basketball only schools maintain their relative position to football schools over the next 10 years? Will the BE and the ACC maintain their relative positions over the next 10 years?
I don't know the answer to these questions but it seems that Buzz is assuming nothing ever changes and that is a bad bet.
If Buzz worked in the investment field, he would be a technical analyst
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 19, 2014, 11:29:34 AM
Not extolling Shaka, but he sticks by his A10 team. A program that doesn't have a top 5 budget.
A program that is hard to win at. A program he helped craft and define.
The two coaches previous to him both won there, and his most successful season was largely with players his predecessor recruited.
Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good coach, but I am not sure that he built that program. And in fact he may regret not leaving earlier for many of the reasons that Buzz was concerned about.
""See, it goes Grover Cleveland, then Benjamin Harrison, then Grover Cleveland," Williams said. "Grover Cleveland did it twice. He's the only President that you count twice.""
FDR...FDR...FDR...FDR That's four.
Reagan, Reagan
Clinton, Clinton
GHWBush, GHWBush
[/quote]
You do see the difference here, right? He's not talking about Presidents who served consecutive terms. Cleveland served twice with a Harrison thrown in between.
When does basketball season start again?
Quote from: mugoose on June 19, 2014, 11:00:07 AM
The obsession that Parrish has with Buzz is odd.
Buzz has never played in the National Championship game...never even been to the Final Four...yet GP writes about Buzz 6-8 times a year. It's weird.
He is Buzz's guy to get Buzz info out. This likely means Buzz is a bit obsessed with the questions he gets on why he left MU for VTech. Kind of sad, really, that Buzz can't just move on.
Buzz saw the writing on the wall. With the likely transfers if he stayed, an administration/board that was pushing him out, I think he would have been gone next year with MU moving on. He wins, but wasn't doing it the MU way, unfortunately. And I like Buzz. He took the first decent job he could land this year. Buzz is a survivor and did what he had to do.
Just as I've always said, (mostly to the guy who insists that they're all the same) Buzz IS different. Weird is part of the different. And maybe so is his difficulty with dealing with the monster (success) that he created at Marquette (the next 6 years will tell that tale). He's also genuine and generous. Certainly not perfect, but a guy trying to make a difference. I'll root for him, just as I did for Rick, KO and Deane after they left Marquette.
watch the video clip at that link, more in there from Parrish like Buzz filing FOIA for every public college in Div 1 to get copies of their contracts for football and basketball
what did Brent supposedly do? Write notes to 4 people everyday or something? Heck that was probably FOIA not notes
I find it interesting that Isaac Chew (who is a well-known and respected Chicago recruiter) took less money as well to go with him to Blacksburg. I'm sure he could have gotten a sweet deal from one of the B1G schools. Not sure how many kids from Chicago will want to go to VA Tech.
I also find it interesting that Brad Autry, one of his most loyal assistants, is still without a job. Did Buzz not offer him a position? Did Brad not feel comfortable following him? I don't think Brad currently has a position.
Bottom line, our coaching staff would beat there's in a pickup basketball game.
Quote from: GOO on June 19, 2014, 11:36:28 AM
He is Buzz's guy to get Buzz info out.
I thought Goodman and Doyel were "Buzz's guys".
Quote from: PTM on June 19, 2014, 10:52:22 AM
So basically, Buzz was scared.
Not only got scared, but then panicked. The concerns laid out in the Parrish article are all valid and legit knocks against the MU job, but VTech remains a highly questionable landing spot and it'll be very interesting to see how long he lasts there.
"because he was so afraid at failing to live up to expectations he had set."
He sure failed to live up to expectations in 2013-2014....
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on June 19, 2014, 11:43:22 AM
I find it interesting that Isaac Chew (who is a well-known and respected Chicago recruiter) took less money as well to go with him to Blacksburg. I'm sure he could have gotten a sweet deal from one of the B1G schools. Not sure how many kids from Chicago will want to go to VA Tech.
I also find it interesting that Brad Autry, one of his most loyal assistants, is still without a job. Did Buzz not offer him a position? Did Brad not feel comfortable following him? I don't think Brad currently has a position.
Bottom line, our coaching staff would beat there's in a pickup basketball game.
I'm so glad I don't have to hear about how awesome Chew is anymore. Incredibly overrated, and yes I know which recruits he helped us get (none of which were from Chicago).
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on June 19, 2014, 11:43:22 AM
I find it interesting that Isaac Chew (who is a well-known and respected Chicago recruiter) took less money as well to go with him to Blacksburg. I'm sure he could have gotten a sweet deal from one of the B1G schools. Not sure how many kids from Chicago will want to go to VA Tech.
I also find it interesting that Brad Autry, one of his most loyal assistants, is still without a job. Did Buzz not offer him a position? Did Brad not feel comfortable following him? I don't think Brad currently has a position.
Bottom line, our coaching staff would beat there's in a pickup basketball game.
Chew is a good recruiter outside of Chicago. He did a lot of the leg work on Ahmed Hill for instance.
One of the reasons that Chew went to VPI, and one of the reasons Autry still is without a job, is because there simply were many openings. You say that Chew could have gotten a B10 job. Well no B10 head coaching jobs opened up that I recall.
Chew didn't want to take the chance and followed Buzz. Autry took a chance, didn't follow Buzz, and is still looking. (He is a finalist for an assistant position at Missouri.)
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 19, 2014, 11:19:19 AM
For every insecure Buzz, there's a Boeheim, Coach K, Greg Kampe, Bob McKillop, Stew Morrill (HA!), Rick Barnes (Double HA!), etc.
Coaches who have weathered storms and by doing so, helped define who they are, make their comeback successes sweeter and reveal their character.
""See, it goes Grover Cleveland, then Benjamin Harrison, then Grover Cleveland," Williams said. "Grover Cleveland did it twice. He's the only President that you count twice.""
FDR...FDR...FDR...FDR That's four.
Reagan, Reagan
Clinton, Clinton
GHWBush, GHWBush
Cleveland is the only one for non-consecutive terms. He was the 22nd and 24th president. The others are only counted once.
Quote from: GOO on June 19, 2014, 11:36:28 AM
He is Buzz's guy to get Buzz info out. This likely means Buzz is a bit obsessed with the questions he gets on why he left MU for VTech. Kind of sad, really, that Buzz can't just move on.
Buzz saw the writing on the wall. With the likely transfers if he stayed, an administration/board that was pushing him out, I think he would have been gone next year with MU moving on. He wins, but wasn't doing it the MU way, unfortunately. And I like Buzz. He took the first decent job he could land this year. Buzz is a survivor and did what he had to do.
This lets us know why we never got any coverage from Hunt. Buzz picked his lackeys with care. You either worshipped Buzz or you were shut out.
Quote from: brandx on June 19, 2014, 12:05:01 PM
This lets us know why we never got any coverage from Hunt. Buzz picked his lackeys with care. You either worshipped Buzz or you were shut out.
Jeff Goodman, Greg Doyel and Gary Parrish are the lazy lackeys and Mike Hunt is the respected hard working/hard hitting journalist. That's pretty funny.
Thank Goodness he's gone then - appears he had maxed out his potential here - thanks for the success and good luck at the next stop - with aspirations to always be in a position of underdog, he'll likely has several more
A very interesting article. Buzz is indeed a different breed of cat and it works for him and it worked for MU 5 out of 6 years.
It is quite easy to see why people love him or hate him.
Buzz appears to have a coaching style that is very self-exhausting and change or challenge seem to invigorate and motivate him.
I do think we focus too much on the long-term guys, which are the outlier in today's game. We all want a successful long-term coach, but that is a rare thing. While it would be good for MU to strive for that, the program is better off in the long-run expecting coaching changes every 5-10 years.
I will always thank him for the 5 seasons of success, a real Big East title and bringing Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder and DJO into the hall of Marquette greats. The rest is water under the bridge because it is better to look forward to next year and our new coach rather than dwell on the negatives of the past.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on June 19, 2014, 11:32:49 AM
I think Buzz is motivated by an immense fear of failure.
He decided to get out while he was ahead, because he was so afraid at failing to live up to expectations he had set.
It all makes a lot of sense.
Cowardice has never made sense. Every man has fears. The test is in how we overcome them.
At the first sign of mortal danger a man's mouth goes dry and a lightening bolt of ice cold adrenalin rips through his system. This response is visceral, primordial, and instinctive. It is hard wired into the human genome. But the real measure of a man is in how he rises to meet the challenge. A coward runs from the sound of danger while a man overcomes his natural fear and takes care of business.
Bert fled like a little girl rather than standing tall like a man. He is beneath our contempt.
I'll repeat again what I said years ago and again a few months ago from an athletic department source at a school Buzz worked at previously.
"Surprised you hired him. Good coach, weird as f*ck"
Quote from: mugoose on June 19, 2014, 11:00:07 AM
The obsession that Parrish has with Buzz is odd.
Buzz has never played in the National Championship game...never even been to the Final Four...yet GP writes about Buzz 6-8 times a year. It's weird.
He's one of Buzz's mouthpieces.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 19, 2014, 11:58:31 AM
Chew is a good recruiter outside of Chicago. He did a lot of the leg work on Ahmed Hill for instance.
One of the reasons that Chew went to VPI, and one of the reasons Autry still is without a job, is because there simply were many openings. You say that Chew could have gotten a B10 job. Well no B10 head coaching jobs opened up that I recall.
Chew didn't want to take the chance and followed Buzz. Autry took a chance, didn't follow Buzz, and is still looking. (He is a finalist for an assistant position at Missouri.)
From what I understand Buzz put together the staff he wanted at Va Tech. I hope Brad finds something.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on June 19, 2014, 11:32:49 AM
I think Buzz is motivated by an immense fear of failure.
He decided to get out while he was ahead, because he was so afraid at failing to live up to expectations he had set.
It all makes a lot of sense.
Agree with a lot of this. Nothing better in terms of job security than going to a place that has 2 NCAA appearances in 30 years and is willing to pay you a ton of money. Get out before you no longer can keep the train running, especially when some of the locomotives on the train may have issues with those that run the railway line.
So, one tourney appearance/possibly a round of 32 appearance, and Buzz is off to TCU!
Reading this story makes me really question if Buzz would have accepted the UT job if it was offered to him.
If Bart is so into trends and stats, I wonder why he didn't look into the track record of MU head coaches who left for other jobs in "better" conferences.
TC had a .664 winning pct and got us to the Final Four despite being in C-USA. At I4, he has a .510 winning pct and gotten no further than the Sweet Sixteen. Yeah, he took over a train wreck and turned them around nicely, but they've started moving backwards again.
KO clearly maxed out his college success at MU, taking a dreadful and underfunded program to the Sweet Sixteen and an overall .581 winning pct. Since then, he is under .500 overall at Tennesssee, Northwestern, Arizona and USC, with only two NCAA appearances (both losses) in 11 seasons.
The last coach who had more success after leaving MU was Rick Majerus.
Seems like Bert missed those trends....
Quote from: Badgerhater on June 19, 2014, 12:17:22 PM
I do think we focus too much on the long-term guys, which are the outlier in today's game. We all want a successful long-term coach, but that is a rare thing. While it would be good for MU to strive for that, the program is better off in the long-run expecting coaching changes every 5-10 years.
Great point, I agree.
Also, we as fans, need to stop projecting our needs/wants on these coaches. As this article clearly illustrates, Buzz is not wired to be a lifer somewhere. His job history prior to MU was as nomadic as it gets, yet some believed that Buzz was going to be at MU 20+ years. All the drama and silliness that took place the last few years in regards to MU possibly interfering with Buzz's "don't mess with happy" attitude looks completely ridiculous now. Fact is, when expectations reached a certain level, Buzz was going to seek out a new opportunity.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 19, 2014, 12:44:57 PM
I'll repeat again what I said years ago and again a few months ago from an athletic department source at a school Buzz worked at previously.
"Surprised you hired him. Good coach, weird as f*ck"
Yeah, you certainly were correct. I mean, who boasts to their own staff no less, about how well-written their contract is. Bizarre stuff.
Quote from: brandx on June 19, 2014, 12:05:01 PM
This lets us know why we never got any coverage from Hunt. Buzz picked his lackeys with care. You either worshipped Buzz or you were shut out.
I think you are right, but you are still letting Hunt off easy. Once he lost all-access to Buzz, he mailed it in...
Quote from: RJax55 on June 19, 2014, 12:48:43 PM
Great point, I agree.
Also, we as fans, need to stop projecting our needs/wants on these coaches. As this article clearly illustrates, Buzz is not wired to be a lifer somewhere. His job history prior to MU was as nomadic as it gets, yet some believed that Buzz was going to be at MU 20+ years. All the drama and silliness that took place the last few years in regards to MU possibly interfering with Buzz's "don't mess with happy" attitude looks completely ridiculous now. Fact is, when expectations reached a certain level, Buzz was going to seek out a new opportunity.
I would argue that most people aren't wired to be lifers anywhere. We want it from our coaches, and professional players, but we don't understand that most of us will not work for the same employer for our entire lifetime.
Quote from: keefe on June 19, 2014, 12:27:08 PM
Cowardice has never made sense. Every man has fears. The test is in how we overcome them.
At the first sign of mortal danger a man's mouth goes dry and a lightening bolt of ice cold adrenalin rips through his system. This response is visceral, primordial, and instinctive. It is hard wired into the human genome. But the real measure of a man is in how he rises to meet the challenge. A coward runs from the sound of danger while a man overcomes his natural fear and takes care of business.
Bert fled like a little girl rather than standing tall like a man. He is beneath our contempt.
I'm analyzing it from a psychological perspective, not a moral one that gauges his manliness or bravery.
But I agree with you.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 19, 2014, 11:43:25 AM
I thought Goodman and Doyel were "Buzz's guys".
You thought wrong. Goodman and Parrish, not Doyle.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 19, 2014, 11:37:36 AM
Just as I've always said, (mostly to the guy who insists that they're all the same) Buzz IS different. Weird is part of the different. And maybe so is his difficulty with dealing with the monster (success) that he created at Marquette (the next 6 years will tell that tale). He's also genuine and generous. Certainly not perfect, but a guy trying to make a difference. I'll root for him, just as I did for Rick, KO and Deane after they left Marquette.
The monster he created. LOL. Good one. Really good. ::)
Contrast the 30 for 30 program on the Big East and how it started and what it took to build it with the old coaches (characters) etc... and Buzz's bolting for the exits because he thought there might be difficulty down the road a piece. Wow. What a difference and why to this day I love Thompson, Massimino, Carnesecca, etc etc..... Those guys would lay down for no one.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 19, 2014, 12:14:05 PM
Jeff Goodman, Greg Doyel and Gary Parrish are the lazy lackeys and Mike Hunt is the respected hard working/hard hitting journalist. That's pretty funny.
If you knew a few people in the athletic department and Buzz's ...ahem..."communication" with them, you would know how far off base you are Lenny. Gut didn't have the time of day for many people, too busy studying who the Presidents were apparently.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 19, 2014, 12:47:56 PM
If Bart is so into trends and stats, I wonder why he didn't look into the track record of MU head coaches who left for other jobs in "better" conferences.
TC had a .664 winning pct and got us to the Final Four despite being in C-USA. At I4, he has a .510 winning pct and gotten no further than the Sweet Sixteen. Yeah, he took over a train wreck and turned them around nicely, but they've started moving backwards again.
KO clearly maxed out his college success at MU, taking a dreadful and underfunded program to the Sweet Sixteen and an overall .581 winning pct. Since then, he is under .500 overall at Tennesssee, Northwestern, Arizona and USC, with only two NCAA appearances (both losses) in 11 seasons.
The last coach who had more success after leaving MU was Rick Majerus.
Seems like Bert missed those trends....
Is this about having greater success, or self-preservation? I didn't get the sense reading the article that Buzz feels he will achieve the same or greater success at VT than he did at MU. What he does have at VT is time, lower expectations and is without the burden of his own past success.
KO and TC left MU because they believed their new jobs offer the chance at greater success. I don't know if I can say the same for Buzz.
I must admit, I see Brent in an entirely different light than I ever did. I think it happens when you are part of the masses and you "want to believe." Today, I can see more clearly. This whole article strikes me as the same old stories about Buzz -- subtle PR jobs highlighting Brent's quirks/weirdness with the sole intent to endear the reader into thinking this is a weird, but really lovable guy. Someone was asking if Buzz has the writers in his pocket -- the answer is "sort of." Right after college, I did a lot of PR writing for clients. You forge relationships with reporters and if you give them the information they need/want and make it easy for them, you become a "go-to" source. Make them look good and you will get repeat business. Reporters are lazy just like everyone else. If you make it easy for them, most will continually use you instead of going through the hassle of reaching out to nameless others whom may, or may not pan out. Some sources burn you. Some sources don't deliver on time. Some sources use excessive spin. Some sources are boring and give you nothing you can use. Buzz delivers for these writers and makes their jobs easy. He is interesting and he provides memorable quotes/sound bites. And because of this, he gets "protected" from any real criticism or fallout. That is how it works. Buzz hand-picks a few guys, gives them what they want, and he gets a little protection in return. You spread it out to a few influential guys and you are all set.
I am a conspiracy theorist. I think Brent was either shown the door, or was told he was going to be shown the door because of ethical concerns with the program and recruiting. I believe MU forced his hand and gave him little time, so he reached out to his crony's buddy at VT. I believe all of his reasons for leaving were made up after the fact. I don't have any real proof, just anecdotal rumblings. I think both parties agreed to not talk about it. Once the smoke had cleared, Buzz was intent on continuing his "I'm a weird but lovable dude" PR campaign, which the media love, and which could also plausibly explain his leaving. The "journal" stuff and conversations with others which tried to help explain Brent's thought process and his leaving is just too convenient for me. I do not believe this narrative at all. Just one man's opinion.
In the long run, I believe we will be better off without him, but time will tell.
Much like Tom Crean and Buzz, both realize it is very hard to go to the next level. I am sure his insecurities are at the top of the list. New conference, hard to recruit to MU, weather, and I think he realized he could not get Ellenson or Stone in his own state, much less Looney. Bo doing a great job right down the street did not help the situation. It is not like the top recruits are
at the door waiting to get into MU. Buzz recruited misfits in the JC world, questionable kids that were perfect for MU in his mind, but not the administration. I am positve that Wojo is looking for a different type of kid then Buzz was. I think Wojo will be fine, but the recruiting class coming up and I think the one the year after, will tell you where the program is going. Talent is there
for the next few years once Fisher becomes eligible, the first few games will be interesting to say the least. Duke won without a center, he will spread the court and see what happens. This
offense should be great for Duane Wilson.
An interesting thought to consider - given that Buzz had wrote this statement in September of 2013:
"The next 12 months is an information-gathering mode."
In my view, Buzz was already having concerns about remaining at MU prior to start of the 2013 season..and therefore perhaps anything that pointed toward those concerns being validated...or even neutral...was probably skewed with a bias that he was trying to confirm.
End of the day, it would be unlikely that he was truly and fully all in/focused on Marquette's success consciously...when his subconscious was telling him he may need to get out.
Perhaps the episode of some booing at the Bradley Center fed further into his concern that remaining at MU due to his success would result in him being up against high expectations from the bar he set...and he didn't want to be held to that anymore/or wasn't confident he could sustain it - even though he just had landed his best recruiting class (Duane, Burton, JJJ, Dawson, McKay) who all had knowledge the landscape of Big East was changing...yet none asked our of their NLI.
Seems he just got a little paranoid and made a mountain out of a molehill as far as ESPN vs Fox 1, new Big East versus Old Big East, etc.
I'll miss the character that he was..and still believe at the end day he largely tried to do the right thing and help as many people on and off the court as he could while at MU..
Quote from: RJax55 on June 19, 2014, 01:03:21 PM
Is this about having greater success, or self-preservation? I didn't get the sense reading the article that Buzz feels he will achieve the same or greater success at VT than he did at MU. What he does have at VT is time, lower expectations and is without the burden of his own past success.
KO and TC left MU because they believed their new jobs offer the chance at greater success. I don't know if I can say the same for Buzz.
I didn't get the sense that Bert thinks he has a greater chance of success from this article - I got it from what he spewed during the tournament about the long-term prognosis of success in football vs non-football conferences. This article told me that he supposedly looked at all sorts of additional stats and trends that can lead to success (ESPN, etc), so I was just pointing out the trend he seems to have missed.
In the end, I agree with Freeport that it's probably all smoke and mirrors, and that Bart was probably just told to leave before he was fired. VT just happened to be the job open at the moment.
When the going gets tough, the Snake Oil Salesman Brent leaves.
Folks, that is what I get out of that article.
Uh, the Hillbilly is rationalizing.
Here's the reality. The Hillbilly got us to the front door and into the hallway of the elite programs in the United States. That is NOT an an easy task. But it is dwarfed by the next step!
As Kevin O'Neill, Tom Crean and Al all knew, taking the next step to becoming one of the truly elite college programs (in any sport) is one of the most difficult challenges around. Truly elite is a team that consistently year-in and year-out competes for national championships. That's true whether a coach is coaching at Marquette, Indiana, the University of Tennessee, Becky Badger or wherever.
You have to be able to recruit three of the top 50 players in the country. You have to be able to recruit a supporting cast from the next 50 to 75 players who can fill critical rolls and accept their rolls. And then, you have to go down to Gesu and pray you keep the core for more than one year. The Hillbilly NEVER had this level of success.
As a coach, you have to work with the team to ensure the chemistry is right. You have to teach an offense and a defense that your team can consistently execute and you have to pray they're smart enough to execute properly (see Gesu reference, above).
With all due respect to the Hillbilly, he's a guy that can get us to the door but has not shown he can bust through and make us a consistent title contender. He hasn't shown he can coach a team to a title, or to a final four (yet) and the dissention on the 2013-2014 team as well as the entire Vander Blue debacle shows the Hillbilly failed miserably on the team chemistry piece.
At the end of the day, I'm sure the Hillbilly will improve Virginia Tech. There's no way to go but up. But there will come a point, especially in the rugged ACC, where he'll top out. Will he be a Virginia? Doubtful! Can he be a UNC or Duke? Not in this lifetime unless the Hillbilly does a huge make-over.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 19, 2014, 01:20:18 PM
I didn't get the sense that Bert thinks he has a greater chance of success from this article - I got it from what he spewed during the tournament about the long-term prognosis of success in football vs non-football conferences. This article told me that he supposedly looked at all sorts of additional stats and trends that can lead to success (ESPN, etc), so I was just pointing out the trend he seems to have missed.
In the end, I agree with Freeport that it's probably all smoke and mirrors, and that Bart was probably just told to leave before he was fired. VT just happened to be the job open at the moment.
Since when did the ACC become a football conference?
I assume when MU hired Wojo the job description said, "head cases need not apply". I wish the guy luck he appears to be more than any AD wishes to handle and why would they?
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 19, 2014, 01:34:01 PM
Since when did the ACC become a football conference?
Long time ago. Did I ever say it was a GOOD football conference?
Interesting article. What I read is that Buzz is a coward, paralyzed by his obsessive compulsiveness. He is deathly afraid of failure and so he ran from MU before failure could catch him.
That might be a good way to win in Vegas, but its no way to live an enjoyable life, in my opinion.
Good luck to him. I hope he fails; it would do his soul well to learn that failure is not always the end.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on June 19, 2014, 01:07:13 PM
I am a conspiracy theorist. I think Brent was either shown the door, or was told he was going to be shown the door because of ethical concerns with the program and recruiting. I believe MU forced his hand and gave him little time, so he reached out to his crony's buddy at VT. I believe all of his reasons for leaving were made up after the fact. I don't have any real proof, just anecdotal rumblings. I think both parties agreed to not talk about it. Once the smoke had cleared, Buzz was intent on continuing his "I'm a weird but lovable dude" PR campaign, which the media love, and which could also plausibly explain his leaving. The "journal" stuff and conversations with others which tried to help explain Brent's thought process and his leaving is just too convenient for me. I do not believe this narrative at all. Just one man's opinion.
In the long run, I believe we will be better off without him, but time will tell.
I'm pretty certain this is correct. And the reason is not tied to any ethical concerns or recruiting, but rather his escalating demands. There came a time when the BOT/Fr. Wild, whomever finally called his threat to leave if he didn't get x, y or z. Buh bye, don't let the door hit you in the arse end.
Quote from: Ners on June 19, 2014, 01:18:41 PM
An interesting thought to consider - given that Buzz had wrote this statement in September of 2013:
"The next 12 months is an information-gathering mode."
In my view, Buzz was already having concerns about remaining at MU prior to start of the 2013 season..and therefore perhaps anything that pointed toward those concerns being validated...or even neutral...was probably skewed with a bias that he was trying to confirm.
End of the day, it would be unlikely that he was truly and fully all in/focused on Marquette's success consciously...when his subconscious was telling him he may need to get out.
Perhaps the episode of some booing at the Bradley Center fed further into his concern that remaining at MU due to his success would result in him being up against high expectations from the bar he set...and he didn't want to be held to that anymore/or wasn't confident he could sustain it - even though he just had landed his best recruiting class (Duane, Burton, JJJ, Dawson, McKay) who all had knowledge the landscape of Big East was changing...yet none asked our of their NLI.
Seems he just got a little paranoid and made a mountain out of a molehill as far as ESPN vs Fox 1, new Big East versus Old Big East, etc.
I'll miss the character that he was..and still believe at the end day he largely tried to do the right thing and help as many people on and off the court as he could while at MU..
Agree with all of this
Quote from: Ners on June 19, 2014, 01:18:41 PM
An interesting thought to consider - given that Buzz had wrote this statement in September of 2013:
"The next 12 months is an information-gathering mode."
In my view, Buzz was already having concerns about remaining at MU prior to start of the 2013 season..and therefore perhaps anything that pointed toward those concerns being validated...or even neutral...was probably skewed with a bias that he was trying to confirm.
End of the day, it would be unlikely that he was truly and fully all in/focused on Marquette's success consciously...when his subconscious was telling him he may need to get out.
Perhaps the episode of some booing at the Bradley Center fed further into his concern that remaining at MU due to his success would result in him being up against high expectations from the bar he set...and he didn't want to be held to that anymore/or wasn't confident he could sustain it - even though he just had landed his best recruiting class (Duane, Burton, JJJ, Dawson, McKay) who all had knowledge the landscape of Big East was changing...yet none asked our of their NLI.
Seems he just got a little paranoid and made a mountain out of a molehill as far as ESPN vs Fox 1, new Big East versus Old Big East, etc.
I'll miss the character that he was..and still believe at the end day he largely tried to do the right thing and help as many people on and off the court as he could while at MU..
Yeah...I think you pretty much nailed this.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on June 19, 2014, 11:43:22 AM
I also find it interesting that Brad Autry, one of his most loyal assistants, is still without a job. Did Buzz not offer him a position? Did Brad not feel comfortable following him? I don't think Brad currently has a position.
Brad Autry actively campaigned against Buzz leaving a sweet gig at MU for the position at VT. Brad stuck around MU hoping that the next HC would pick him up. That's the last I heard about Brad.
For some odd, and not well articulated reason, this article makes me dislike Buzz even more than I already did.
There is so much Brett Favre in Williams, with the "aww shucks" but then behind that is a narcissistic, plotting individual.
Quote from: MUCam on June 19, 2014, 01:42:29 PM
Interesting article. What I read is that Buzz is a coward, paralyzed by his obsessive compulsiveness. He is deathly afraid of failure and so he ran from MU before failure could catch him.
That might be a good way to win in Vegas, but its no way to live an enjoyable life, in my opinion.
Good luck to him. I hope he fails; it would do his soul well to learn that failure is not always the end.
I agree with this. Before I read the article I was going to root for Buzz because I was thankful for what he did and I had a ton of fun the past 6 years. Now I hope he fails because I too think he is a coward and ran while the going got tough. Making excuses that the TV contract isn't good enough and that we don't have as much exposure is a bunch of BS. How about this, recruit better players, be a better coach, and try to improve rather than skip town.
So long Buzz, you're dead to me.
So how much of Buzz's extreme work ethic and intense minute-by-minute scheduling is caused by his undiagnosed OCD and insecurities. FOIA requests to every D1 school? memorizing presidents names just because he has to? - seems like highly inefficient use of time for a D1 basketball coach.
I would not want that type of existence where you are seemingly paranoid of everything / failure and compulsively driven to do inane activities to satisfy them.
Expect major burnout...
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 19, 2014, 11:29:34 AM
Not extolling Shaka, but he sticks by his A10 team. A program that doesn't have a top 5 budget.
A program that is hard to win at. A program he helped craft and define.
Shaka has turned down several schools. I give him tons of credit for staying. At least he is not messing with happy.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on June 19, 2014, 02:17:18 PM
FOIA requests to every D1 school?
maybe Brent can settle the debate between Chicos and Jaybee about his buddy Crean's buyout
Quote from: madtownwarrior on June 19, 2014, 02:17:18 PM
So how much of Buzz's extreme work ethic and intense minute-by-minute scheduling is caused by his undiagnosed untreated OCD and insecurities.
Expect major burnout...
FIFY
Quote from: madtownwarrior on June 19, 2014, 02:17:18 PM
So how much of Buzz's extreme work ethic and intense minute-by-minute scheduling is caused by his undiagnosed OCD and insecurities. FOIA requests to every D1 school? memorizing presidents names just because he has to? - seems like highly inefficient use of time for a D1 basketball coach.
I would not want that type of existence where you are seemingly paranoid of everything / failure and compulsively driven to do inane activities to satisfy them.
Expect major burnout...
I seem to recall an issue a couple of years ago about Buzz not being able to sleep that was so severe he had to go to the Mayo clinic.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on June 19, 2014, 02:17:18 PM
So how much of Buzz's extreme work ethic and intense minute-by-minute scheduling is caused by his undiagnosed OCD and insecurities. FOIA requests to every D1 school? memorizing presidents names just because he has to? - seems like highly inefficient use of time for a D1 basketball coach.
I would not want that type of existence where you are seemingly paranoid of everything / failure and compulsively driven to do inane activities to satisfy them.
Expect major burnout...
Without trying to play armchair psychologist too much, I think Buzz will burn out way earlier than most coaches.
He rarely sleeps during the season. He obsesses to the point that it is probably a health concern. He obviously couldn't handle the pressure he had put on himself by succeeding at MU. He used "information gathering" reasons such as the conference and TV deals to rationalize why he should leave MU instead of dealing with the pressure directly. These are all signs of pretty severe OCD and anxiety disorders.
He's only 41, but I could see him hanging it up before his 50th birthday. Unless he can find some relief in the nether regions of the ACC at a school where no one has any expectations and he doesn't have to worry about succeeding. But any sort of success and expectations and Buzz will be running again.
My year long analysis of this thread shows that the likelihood of it being locked or shut down, relative to the other threads in a similar vein, is much lower than normal. There's a surprising amount of agreement here.
(so happy to not hear "relative to" fifteen times during a 5 minute postgame segment next year)
Or "accountable" and "our culture" and "life's lessons," hey?
I am as big of a Marquette fan as anyone, but I don't understand the outright hatred that some have for a coach when he leaves, especially when usually you haven't even met the person or know the real story, and after he brought a significant amount of success to the program. Since I don't know anything differently (factually), I choose to believe that Buzz was genuine in his efforts to help others, but in the end, his mental disorder controlled his thoughts & decision.
Also, I think his "as long as they will have me" quote reflects his idea (in the article) that he will be fired someday, and perhaps, like others have said, his fear of this (whether rational or irrational) made him run to VT.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on June 19, 2014, 12:51:41 PM
I think you are right, but you are still letting Hunt off easy. Once he lost all-access to Buzz, he mailed it in...
Didn't realize till after I posted that it seemed like I was complimenting Hunt. That wasn't the intention.
Quote from: MauraDay on June 19, 2014, 03:25:31 PM
I am as big of a Marquette fan as anyone, but I don't understand the outright hatred that some have for a coach when he leaves, especially when usually you haven't even met the person or know the real story, and after he brought a significant amount of success to the program. Since I don't know anything differently (factually), I choose to believe that Buzz was genuine in his efforts to help others, but in the end, his mental disorder controlled his thoughts & decision.
Also, I think his "as long as they will have me" quote reflects his idea (in the article) that he will be fired someday, and perhaps, like others have said, his fear of this (whether rational or irrational) made him run to VT.
I wish Buzz well. Think he will do well in his new location. I feel less squirmy, however, as does the administration. Good luck to Wojo.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on June 19, 2014, 01:07:13 PM
I am a conspiracy theorist. I think Brent was either shown the door, or was told he was going to be shown the door because of ethical concerns with the program and recruiting. I believe MU forced his hand and gave him little time, so he reached out to his crony's buddy at VT. I believe all of his reasons for leaving were made up after the fact. I don't have any real proof, just anecdotal rumblings. I think both parties agreed to not talk about it. Once the smoke had cleared, Buzz was intent on continuing his "I'm a weird but lovable dude" PR campaign, which the media love, and which could also plausibly explain his leaving. The "journal" stuff and conversations with others which tried to help explain Brent's thought process and his leaving is just too convenient for me. I do not believe this narrative at all. Just one man's opinion.
In the long run, I believe we will be better off without him, but time will tell.
I thought this was established as true. Cords said they knew he was leaving about a week before he left. They seemed to make no effort to stop him from going.
Also, it seems he jumped on the first job as if he was in a hurry to leave. Houston. Auburn or Tennessee would have been much better fits had he been patient.
Quote from: Heisenberg on June 19, 2014, 03:33:02 PM
I thought this was established as true. Cords said they knew he was leaving about a week before he left. They seemed to make no effort to stop him from going.
Also, it seems he jumped on the first job as if he was in a hurry to leave. Houston. Auburn or Tennessee would have been much better fits had he been patient.
I have a vague remembrance that Buzz pursued Auburn without success. Tennessee and Houston have some history of success in the past. At either Auburn or VT, Buzz has the opportunity to become that school's Al McGuire which I think was a part of his criteria. It's unlikely Houston could have met Buzz's financial needs, especially for assistant coaches.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 19, 2014, 03:45:27 PM
I have a vague remembrance that Buzz pursued Auburn without success. Tennessee and Houston have some history of success in the past. At either Auburn or VT, Buzz has the opportunity to become that school's Al McGuire which I think was a part of his criteria. It's unlikely Houston could have met Buzz's financial needs, especially for assistant coaches.
Auburn had Chuck Barkley!
Quote from: Bleuteaux on June 19, 2014, 03:58:31 PM
Auburn had Chuck Barkley!
Who managed to play in one NCAA tournament game in his career.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 19, 2014, 04:07:43 PM
Who managed to play in one NCAA tournament game in his career.
I guess I should have used teal
Quote from: Heisenberg on June 19, 2014, 03:33:02 PM
I thought this was established as true. Cords said they knew he was leaving about a week before he left. They seemed to make no effort to stop him from going.
Also, it seems he jumped on the first job as if he was in a hurry to leave. Houston. Auburn or Tennessee would have been much better fits had he been patient.
I can tell you Houston wasn't going to happen.
As far as Auburn or Tennessee, why bother going somewhere with expectations when he has a free pass where he is now? Plus, those are both SEC schools and basketball isn't high enough on his supposed totem pole (are we allowed to say that) of greatness to be there.
A source of mine in the Marquette athletic department has just revealed to me why Steve Taylor received so little playing time this season. This person (I cannot reveal their gender) over heard the following conversation from Buzz's office.
Unidentified AD employee: "Coach, what do you want me to do with this medical report on Steve?"
Buzz: "Just put it over there under the latest FOIA responses, I've received. I'll get to it right after I finish these books on Grover Cleveland and have had a chance to review this stack of coaching contracts."
Shaka is just waiting for the Florida job.
I think Chew blew any Big Ten options and possibly many other options when he dumped Illinois within a couple of months of them hiring him.
OK, Brent is weird, but we all knew that.
I'm impressed and thankful that MU has officially remained quiet and also unofficially refrained from leaking the real reasons. Makes me respect the administration a bit more.
So Brent will play his games and put his spin in the media. No blood no foul.
I do give him credit for one thing... how many other people get to write their own contract with perpetual rollover clauses and millions per year? Why didn't I think of that????
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 19, 2014, 03:31:05 PM
I wish Buzz well. Think he will do well in his new location. I feel less squirmy, however, as does the administration. Good luck to Wojo.
I don't wish Buzz well. I don't wish Buzz failure. I won't follow Buzz, not intentionally anyway. I had the same feelings toward Crean but it was impossible to not follow him because he went to Indiana and the national media fawned over him and he did right the ship at least temporarily. I'm guessing it will be easier to not follow Buzz, who is at a $hithole program and will be just another coach trying to squeak into the NCAAs.
I appreciate what Crean did to get the program turned around and to a Final Four. I appreciate what Buzz did to stabilize the program and to recruit well and to get us to our S16-S16-E8 run. But they're gone and I don't care about them any more. I don't hate them. I just don't care about either of them any more than I care about, say, Bob Dukiet.
Classic apathy. Times 2.
I care about Marquette how Wojo will build us back up to what we should be.
Quote from: Heisenberg on June 19, 2014, 11:33:09 AM
"Simply put, once Williams decided to go into what he called an "information-gathering mode," his mind wouldn't rest until he had more data than you can imagine. He projected the likelihood of basketball programs not connected to football programs flourishing over the next 10 years in this ever-changing climate of college athletics. He studied how many programs succeed at a high level without some sort of ESPN contract. He estimated whether it was reasonable to expect the next six years at Marquette would duplicate or exceed the previous six. He researched every coach who has been at a high-major program for at least eight seasons to the point where he learned that staying in the same place too long in this era -- especially when you'll be inheriting a new athletic director soon, like he would've been at Marquette -- proves to be a mistake more often than not for most men."
I work in the investment business and I see this type of flawed analysis all the time. Simply put Buzz wasted his time seeing how thing have worked and assumes nothing will ever change and the past will keep repeating over and over.
----
Will ESPN have the same clout and influence over the next 10 years? Will Fox Sports remain second tier sports channel or will it do to sports programming what Fox News did to cable news? Will basketball only schools maintain their relative position to football schools over the next 10 years? Will the BE and the ACC maintain their relative positions over the next 10 years?
I don't know the answer to these questions but it seems that Buzz is assuming nothing ever changes and that is a bad bet.
If Buzz worked in the investment field, he would be a technical analyst
I agree with your assessment. It was my first reaction to this article as well. The world is dynamic. Fox sports is not sitting still, they just signed the US Open golf and will get additional prime sports properties. The Big East is in a good position to grow with Fox.
To your technical analyst point, I think Buzz saw last year as breaking through the 200 day moving average to the down side and he decided to sell and establish another position some place else. So if nothing else there was consistency to his thought process.
Quote from: Texas Western on June 19, 2014, 11:48:45 PM
I agree with your assessment. It was my first reaction to this article as well. The world is dynamic. Fox sports is not sitting still, they just signed the US Open golf and will get additional prime sports properties. The Big East is in a good position to grow with Fox.
To your technical analyst point, I think Buzz saw last year as breaking through the 200 day moving average to the down side and he decided to sell and establish another position some place else. So if nothing else there was consistency to his thought process.
So the question becomes, will the breaking of the 200 day be confirmed by the coming season or will it merely be a false breakout? Unfortunately for Buzz, with a false breakout, not much that he can do to cover his losses...
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 19, 2014, 03:45:27 PM
I have a vague remembrance that Buzz pursued Auburn without success. Tennessee and Houston have some history of success in the past. At either Auburn or VT, Buzz has the opportunity to become that school's Al McGuire which I think was a part of his criteria. It's unlikely Houston could have met Buzz's financial needs, especially for assistant coaches.
But Brent will leave after x number of years and never build a legacy because that's what his numbers tell him to do. He's a conflicted weirdo.
Having untreated OCD (and probably other anxiety disorders) has to be terrible. I think Buzz really is going to burn himself out in the next 10 years or less. It's too bad he won't get some professional help, and I mean that with no sarcasm or ill intent whatsoever.
I remember a few years back reading that when he went to the Mayo clinic because he had health concerns the doctor told him he needs to start sleeping more, lose some weight, and become healthy or else he'll have an early death. He then threatened the doctor because he said he'd have an early death in front of his wife. The guy is a wacko, threaten a doctor for telling you the truth....psycho
Quote from: swoopem on June 20, 2014, 10:02:39 AM
I remember a few years back reading that when he went to the Mayo clinic because he had health concerns the doctor told him he needs to start sleeping more, lose some weight, and become healthy or else he'll have an early death. He then threatened the doctor because he said he'd have an early death in front of his wife. The guy is a wacko, threaten a doctor for telling you the truth....psycho
Your post made me think more into the disorder side of things (I can't help it, due to my educational background) and he might be dealing more with obsessive compulsive personality disorder (ocpd) than ocd. People with personality disorders are much more resistant to treatment. Anyway, who knows. Tangent over. :)
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on June 19, 2014, 01:48:05 PM
I'm pretty certain this is correct. And the reason is not tied to any ethical concerns or recruiting, but rather his escalating demands. There came a time when the BOT/Fr. Wild, whomever finally called his threat to leave if he didn't get x, y or z. Buh bye, don't let the door hit you in the arse end.
Yep.
Quote from: swoopem on June 20, 2014, 10:02:39 AM
I remember a few years back reading that when he went to the Mayo clinic because he had health concerns the doctor told him he needs to start sleeping more, lose some weight, and become healthy or else he'll have an early death. He then threatened the doctor because he said he'd have an early death in front of his wife. The guy is a wacko, threaten a doctor for telling you the truth....psycho
Found the article. First paragraph http://www.milwaukeemag.com/article/2202012-ThePerfectionist
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 19, 2014, 03:31:05 PM
I wish Buzz well. Think he will do well in his new location. I feel less squirmy, however, as does the administration. Good luck to Wojo.
I agree. I think this is a win/win for both programs. Buzz will field a competitive team at VT and should do just fine. Will he win the ACC title, who knows? But, I do expect he will lead VT to the NCAA tourney in short order.
WOJO seems like a solid hire, hard worker and knows the game. Time will tell.
Quote from: swoopem on June 20, 2014, 10:02:39 AM
I remember a few years back reading that when he went to the Mayo clinic because he had health concerns the doctor told him he needs to start sleeping more, lose some weight, and become healthy or else he'll have an early death. He then threatened the doctor because he said he'd have an early death in front of his wife. The guy is a wacko, threaten a doctor for telling you the truth....psycho
Classic.