I think D Wade is nearing the end of the line. He has literally no explosion left and he really looks to be slowing down. I think he will be out of the league within 2 years. He's had a great career though and hopefully will be a great ambassador for MU hoops when he retires. I will also say, I don't like him nearly as much as I did as when he played for MU or his first couple of years in the NBA. He seems like he has really ratcheted up the diva personality. He will always be a legend though and a great Warrior!
When Wade lost his legs tonight it was really pitiful to watch. Whined after every non-call and was constantly the last guy back on d. He doesn't seem to have the fight of athleticism that made him special.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 13, 2014, 12:10:55 AM
When Wade lost his legs tonight it was really pitiful to watch. Whined after every non-call and was constantly the last guy back on d. He doesn't seem to have the fight of athleticism that made him special.
Wade was fouled a lot tonight when he went to the rim. Most of his misses should have been called a foul. L
As for being the last guy back on d...I disagree that would have been Lebron, who stood around watching everyone else play horrible D tonight. Wade had 4 steals...he did struggle a lot as the Spurs put a lot of pressure on the defense with their ball rotations and how they attack the rim, essentially the opposite of the Heat.
The Heat stand around on offense. The ball stagnates in Lebron's hands allowing the Spurs to actually rest on defense. There was no urgency by the heat to attack the rim, rather just dribbling at the top of the key forever. Any attack of the rim by Lebron involved backing the other play in for 5-10 seconds with no ball movement. If you don't attack the defense and make them move in the NBA, your opponent will have fresh legs and shred your defense. That is exactly what has happened the last two games.
Fresh legs (Spurs) against tired legs (Heat).
Quote from: forgetful on June 13, 2014, 01:28:36 AM
Fresh legs (Spurs) against tired legs (Heat).
Which is kind of funny considering that the Spurs played more games during the playoffs than the heat and are probably the older team in this series.
Time for MU to add another assistant.
Nah, that mofo @ IU will snatch his ass up first, hey?
Quote from: muarmy81 on June 13, 2014, 07:16:10 AM
Which is kind of funny considering that the Spurs played more games during the playoffs than the heat and are probably the older team in this series.
Spurs are much deeper.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 13, 2014, 07:34:07 AM
Nah, that mofo @ IU will snatch his ass up first, hey?
Already has a collection of shorts, so you're probably right. #TheMovement #i4
I have read that Wade has a poor off-season work ethic. Now I will give that his career (5 NBA Finals trips, US Nat'l team) does not give him much off season but you have to wonder how he could just watch his career fade away like this. When Kobe or MJ lost their athleticism they reinvented their game. Wade just b!tches to the refs.
spurs are much smarter...
He's not what he once was... but I don't think I'd say he's "done".
Some people said similar things last year, and then he had some big playoff games.
HOWEVER, it's clear he has taken a pounding through the years, so he probably does have to learn some new tricks. Ironically, he's a fantastic passer/distributor when he wants to be, so I wonder if he could become more of a facilitator instead of a scorer.
EDIT:
While he hasn't looked good in the finals, look at his numbers from the regular season.
Very efficient in a more limited role.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html
Not sure what the next evolution for him could be. Tough to ask a guy to be much better than shooting 55%, scoring 19 and having 4.5reb and 4.5ast.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 13, 2014, 08:46:13 AM
He's not what he once was... but I don't think I'd say he's "done".
Some people said similar things last year, and then he had some big playoff games.
HOWEVER, it's clear he has taken a pounding through the years, so he probably does have to learn some new tricks. Ironically, he's a fantastic passer/distributor when he wants to be, so I wonder if he could become more of a facilitator instead of a scorer.
EDIT:
While he hasn't looked good in the finals, look at his numbers from the regular season.
Very efficient in a more limited role.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html
Not sure what the next evolution for him could be. Tough to ask a guy to be much better than shooting 55%, scoring 19 and having 4.5reb and 4.5ast.
Excellent analysis, G&A.
Wade's detractors could say that his efficiency was aided by the fact that he played in less than 3/4 of the team's games as he was given frequent nights off to rest. It certainly takes away from his value if you can't count on a player to give you at least 75 games.
That being said, I would think Wade can make a great living playing at a pretty high level for a couple/few more years.
Don't understand the hate for Wade, but I don't watch the NBA so I guess I don't know how bad it really is.
Also would be interested to hear what he's eating. Diet plays a significant role in athletic performance. One of the reasons Kobe seems to be still going strong is that he's embraced a real food lifestyle.
LBJ is probably also chronically low on magnesium. Very common with cramping problems.
You'd think billion dollar franchises would hire dieting and nutrition experts with a modicum of common sense.
Quote from: muarmy81 on June 13, 2014, 07:16:10 AM
Which is kind of funny considering that the Spurs played more games during the playoffs than the heat and are probably the older team in this series.
Depth
This one was easy to call....Spurs in 5 called a week or so ago.
Quote from: The Lens on June 13, 2014, 08:06:28 AM
I have read that Wade has a poor off-season work ethic. Now I will give that his career (5 NBA Finals trips, US Nat'l team) does not give him much off season but you have to wonder how he could just watch his career fade away like this. When Kobe or MJ lost their athleticism they reinvented their game. Wade just b!tches to the refs.
The cat spends the off season countin' his bread. That's hard work, hey?
Quote from: warrior07 on June 13, 2014, 09:08:27 AM
Don't understand the hate for Wade, but I don't watch the NBA so I guess I don't know how bad it really is.
Also would be interested to hear what he's eating. Diet plays a significant role in athletic performance. One of the reasons Kobe seems to be still going strong is that he's embraced a real food lifestyle.
LBJ is probably also chronically low on magnesium. Very common with cramping problems.
You'd think billion dollar franchises would hire dieting and nutrition experts with a modicum of common sense.
Trust me, these guys are eating right and the staffs know what they are doing. Some people have imperfections where diet helps tremendously but cannot overcome all issues.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 13, 2014, 09:11:31 AM
The cat spends the off season countin' his bread. That's hard work, hey?
And smashing Gabrielle Union which I'm sure is quite the workout
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 13, 2014, 08:46:13 AM
He's not what he once was... but I don't think I'd say he's "done".
Some people said similar things last year, and then he had some big playoff games.
HOWEVER, it's clear he has taken a pounding through the years, so he probably does have to learn some new tricks. Ironically, he's a fantastic passer/distributor when he wants to be, so I wonder if he could become more of a facilitator instead of a scorer.
EDIT:
While he hasn't looked good in the finals, look at his numbers from the regular season.
Very efficient in a more limited role.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html
Not sure what the next evolution for him could be. Tough to ask a guy to be much better than shooting 55%, scoring 19 and having 4.5reb and 4.5ast.
He should absolutely be playing PG for this team. Chalmers and Cole can't hit open threes and haven't a clue how to create for others, run an offense, or put pressure on a defense. The only time the Heat have looked remotely competitive the last two games was the third quarter of game 3 when Wade was running the 1. He's a willing passer, just have him facilitate. Can't believe Spoelstra didn't watch tape of game 3 and see that himself. He's getting absolutely schooled this series.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 13, 2014, 08:46:13 AM
He's not what he once was... but I don't think I'd say he's "done".
Some people said similar things last year, and then he had some big playoff games.
HOWEVER, it's clear he has taken a pounding through the years, so he probably does have to learn some new tricks. Ironically, he's a fantastic passer/distributor when he wants to be, so I wonder if he could become more of a facilitator instead of a scorer.
EDIT:
While he hasn't looked good in the finals, look at his numbers from the regular season.
Very efficient in a more limited role.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html
Not sure what the next evolution for him could be. Tough to ask a guy to be much better than shooting 55%, scoring 19 and having 4.5reb and 4.5ast.
He looks really washed up to me. I'm sure he could play 5 more seasons and put up some stats, but he is a shell of his former shelf. I think you get a much better gauge of where a player is at in the playoffs, than you do in the regular season. There are so many crappy teams, especially in the Eastern Conference that his regular season stats don't really tell the whole story. I think Wade is too prideful to try and hang on when his skills erode, at least I hope so. I think he plays next year and then 1 more and he's done. Wade will go down as a relentless warrior and one of the great players of my generation.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2014, 09:09:16 AM
Depth
This one was easy to call....Spurs in 5 called a week or so ago.
And you've patted yourself on the back for it multiple times since.
Quote from: The Lens on June 13, 2014, 08:06:28 AM
I have read that Wade has a poor off-season work ethic. Now I will give that his career (5 NBA Finals trips, US Nat'l team) does not give him much off season but you have to wonder how he could just watch his career fade away like this. When Kobe or MJ lost their athleticism they reinvented their game. Wade just b!tches to the refs.
He's also a few inches shorter than those guys, so developing their late career post up games would be tough. Also, no disrespect to Wade, but both those guys were much better spot up shooters, also helpful.
I agree Wade has to reinvent his game. If he refuses to be anything but a superstar who commands superstar money, he probably is done.
But if he does reinvent his game, and is a solid contributor instead of THE star on a given team, and is willingly to accept money befitting that role on a team, he could easily be in the NBA another 5-7 years. Dude is only 32 years old.
He's not a max contract guy anymore, but he's still has a few seasons left in the tank.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on June 13, 2014, 09:21:30 AM
I agree Wade has to reinvent his game. If he refuses to be anything but a superstar who commands superstar money, he probably is done.
But if he does reinvent his game, and is a solid contributor instead of THE star on a given team, and is willingly to accept money befitting that role on a team, he could easily be in the NBA another 5-7 years. Dude is only 32 years old.
Money is not really the issue. LBJ, Bosh & Wade are all playing at below market value. And he's already ceded the superstar role to LBJ. What he hasn't done is use his incredible basketball talent to play the game differently and help the team in a new way. It's like he refuses to realize he's near the end of the line, he feels like every missed basket, assignment is the refs fault, not father time.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on June 13, 2014, 09:21:30 AM
I agree Wade has to reinvent his game. If he refuses to be anything but a superstar who commands superstar money, he probably is done.
But if he does reinvent his game, and is a solid contributor instead of THE star on a given team, and is willingly to accept money befitting that role on a team, he could easily be in the NBA another 5-7 years. Dude is only 32 years old.
Yep, he needs to re-invent. My son and I were having the exact same discussion as we were watching the game today. Two or 3 times when in the past he would have dunked over people or made a tough layup, he either lost the ball or threw it outside. He needs to either work on his 3 pointers so he can space the floor better or work on becoming a pure Jason Kidd style point guard. If he does either, he could play 5 more years at a high level. 25 mins per game and a serious contributor in the playoffs. Kind of a Vince Carter or Ray Allen role where he drives twice a game to keep the D honest.
I know how it feels to play on bad knees / no knees, and he looks like how I feel.
btw, the last thing I'd ever want to see him do is go the path of Sidney Moncrief, who never did re-invent and ended up as a slasher who couldn't slash any more. I'm a huge Moncrief fan, but watching his last two years was painful.
Also bad knees.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 13, 2014, 09:17:36 AM
And you've patted yourself on the back for it multiple times since.
I have no doubt if the Heat had won, you and others would be more than willing to say I was wrong. Doing the heavy lifting for you. I don't even watch the NBA and can pick this crap with my eyes closed.
No Adjusted Score Fenwick needed. ;) ;)
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 13, 2014, 09:15:55 AM
He looks really washed up to me. I'm sure he could play 5 more seasons and put up some stats, but he is a shell of his former shelf. I think you get a much better gauge of where a player is at in the playoffs, than you do in the regular season. There are so many crappy teams, especially in the Eastern Conference that his regular season stats don't really tell the whole story. I think Wade is too prideful to try and hang on when his skills erode, at least I hope so. I think he plays next year and then 1 more and he's done. Wade will go down as a relentless warrior and one of the great players of my generation.
#1 He is a shell of his former self, but that doesn't mean he can't be effective.
#2 I agree that stats don't tell the whole story, but look at his playoff stats as well.
Really not bad, and pretty efficient.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html
Look, the guy isn't a first team NBA player anymore, but looking at it objectively, he's still a really efficient guard on a really good team. I honestly don't know if Dwyane & the Heat are bad in the finals, or if the Spurs are actually just that good.
I can't recall a team executing in the 1/2 court as well as the Spurs are right now. It's insane how good they are, and how their spacing and movement are nearly perfect. I have never seen anything like it.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 07:36:07 AM
Spurs are much deeper.
Depth isn't the issue, it is the style of play and coaching. The Spurs make you work on D, the Heat do not. Defense is where your legs get tired.
I blame the deterioration of Dwayne Wade's knees (and overall game) to that of one person: Erik Spoelstra. He installed, and never adjusted - even in this series, where the Spurs had fresher legs - his full-court trapping style of defense. He's been running the same system now for 4 years, and it worked extremely well when you have 3 superstars on the court at a given time. But it no longer works when your superstars (not LeBron) lack the same explosion and athleticism they once had.
You guys are definitely on point, though. He needs to adjust his game. He still plays like he has elite quickness (which he does not). He should work on being an outside shooter, preserving his body by not attacking the basket so much. We shall see...
He was done before this year even started.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 13, 2014, 07:34:07 AM
Nah, that mofo @ IU will snatch his ass up first, hey?
I4 can have him. Great player, but a bit of a jack hole.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 13, 2014, 11:22:19 AM
I4 can have him. Great player, but a bit of a jack hole.
I agree. Maybe not for the same reason as I think Wade would fall into the Isaiah Thomas trap as a coach who basketball came too naturally to him and thus couldn't really help develop players.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on June 13, 2014, 11:06:23 AM
I blame the deterioration of Dwayne Wade's knees (and overall game) to that of one person: Erik Spoelstra. He installed, and never adjusted - even in this series, where the Spurs had fresher legs - his full-court trapping style of defense. He's been running the same system now for 4 years, and it worked extremely well when you have 3 superstars on the court at a given time. But it no longer works when your superstars (not LeBron) lack the same explosion and athleticism they once had.
You guys are definitely on point, though. He needs to adjust his game. He still plays like he has elite quickness (which he does not). He should work on being an outside shooter, preserving his body by not attacking the basket so much. We shall see...
I think that's where the problem is. He isn't a great shooter...career 29% from 3. He was always an attack that basket type player who could hit the 3 occasionally and keep defenses honest. With his athleticism deteriorating, teams are not going to have to worry about him blowing by them. The reason why Ray Allen continues to be effective is he's a lethal shooter from deep.
The NBA has too many games period. Wade looked like his legs were wooden last year too. We have noticed the worn out legs of many other NBA players in the playoffs over the years. Their legs are shot from playing too many games. Wish the NBA would shorten the season by playing fewer games. It would be better for the players and fans if the games were more meaningful like the NFL.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2014, 10:11:32 AM
I have no doubt if the Heat had won, you and others would be more than willing to say I was wrong. Doing the heavy lifting for you. I don't even watch the NBA and can pick this crap with my eyes closed.
You definitely did not get enough attention as a child.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on June 13, 2014, 11:51:24 AM
The NBA has too many games period. Wade looked like his legs were wooden last year too. We have noticed the worn out legs of many other NBA players in the playoffs over the years. Their legs are shot from playing too many games. Wish the NBA would shorten the season by playing fewer games. It would be better for the players and fans if the games were more meaningful like the NFL.
The NBA, NHL and MLB have too many games. It dates back from when gate receipts were more important than they are now. If you were starting all three from scratch right now, there is no way you would have that many games.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on June 13, 2014, 11:29:28 AM
I agree. Maybe not for the same reason as I think Wade would fall into the Isaiah Thomas trap as a coach who basketball came too naturally to him and thus couldn't really help develop players.
I think if you look at Wade's progression, it didn't come easily or naturally to him at all. The guy busted his butt to get very good at his craft.
All that said, some really good players sometimes have a tough time coaching because their pupils don't have the drive they had and\or the ability, so it makes it difficult on them. Do not think it really matters, D Wade is likely not going to get into coaching. Nor is he "done" as people suggest here. Everyone loses a step, he can still function if he chooses to play a few more years.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 12:12:46 PM
The NBA, NHL and MLB have too many games. It dates back from when gate receipts were more important than they are now. If you were starting all three from scratch right now, there is no way you would have that many games.
Maybe, but the NFL is about to add more games. Give it another year or two, that will likely be approved. I agree ticket revenue was more of a driver back in the day, while television money is now. The way some here proclaim TV will be dead next month, year, 5 years from now, they may be relying on ticket revenue again to a higher degree.
I don't see any of the seasons being shortened because in large part the television fees are generated by content (i.e. # of games). Fewer games, less content, less money.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2014, 12:28:35 PM
I think if you look at Wade's progression, it didn't come easily or naturally to him at all. The guy busted his butt to get very good at his craft.
All that said, some really good players sometimes have a tough time coaching because their pupils don't have the drive they had and\or the ability, so it makes it difficult on them. Do not think it really matters, D Wade is likely not going to get into coaching. Nor is he "done" as people suggest here. Everyone loses a step, he can still function if he chooses to play a few more years.
I mean I'm not going to argue that he busted his butt but he certainly had a natural touch to him that I feel would be tough to explain to someone without it. Agree he isn't done. A shell of who he was yes but definitely not done. Hope he can pick the right time to leave as opposed to say Tracy mcgrady or Allen iverson
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on June 13, 2014, 12:43:44 PM
I mean I'm not going to argue that he busted his butt but he certainly had a natural touch to him that I feel would be tough to explain to someone without it. Agree he isn't done. A shell of who he was yes but definitely not done. Hope he can pick the right time to leave as opposed to say Tracy mcgrady or Allen iverson
That's always tough for an athlete, when to bow out. Some of these guys need the money because they aren't very disciplined with it.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2014, 12:52:51 PM
That's always tough for an athlete, when to bow out. Some of these guys need the money because they aren't very disciplined with it.
True. I think there was a 30 for 30 on that I saw a couple years back. It talked about how suddenly everybody who was around in family, grade school, college, etc want a cut and then you often add in child support and occasional league fines, government taxes, injuries that may make you worth less. And suddenly that multi million dollar contract is looking pretty pedestrian
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 13, 2014, 11:41:50 AM
I think that's where the problem is. He isn't a great shooter...career 29% from 3. He was always an attack that basket type player who could hit the 3 occasionally and keep defenses honest. With his athleticism deteriorating, teams are not going to have to worry about him blowing by them. The reason why Ray Allen continues to be effective is he's a lethal shooter from deep.
That's only telling 1/2 the story.
The guy shot 55% from the field this year. That's fantastic for a guard.
He's never going to be steph curry, and Dwyane had a terrible game last night.
HOWEVER, I don't think you are seeing the big picture. A player scoring almost 20pts per night on 14 shots is a big asset.
Dwyane isn't perfect (he never was), but you're making it sound like he's not a good player, and that's simply not true. He's a good player on a good team.
Quote from: forgetful on June 13, 2014, 10:30:00 AM
Depth isn't the issue, it is the style of play and coaching. The Spurs make you work on D, the Heat do not. Defense is where your legs get tired.
Tim Duncan is
THE issue. 17 years in the league - 17 years in the Playoffs.
Miami has 6 lottery picks surrounding James. I believe the Spurs have ZERO lottery picks surrounding Duncan.
A win this year puts Duncan in the conversation as a top 4 all-time NBA player.
Behind only Jordan, Jabbar, and Russell.
Quote from: brandx on June 13, 2014, 02:11:11 PM
Tim Duncan is THE issue. 17 years in the league - 17 years in the Playoffs.
Miami has 6 lottery picks surrounding James. I believe the Spurs have ZERO lottery picks surrounding Duncan.
A win this year puts Duncan in the conversation as a top 4 all-time NBA player.
Behind only Jordan, Jabbar, and Russell.
Shane Battier...come on. Nice player, but let's not go overboard. Ray Allen, a guard playing in his 17th year. Greg Oden....I hope he wasn't part of your list of 6 lottery picks and actually trying to argue that he is anything but a shadow of the player he was in college. Michael Beasley...another overrated player.
Why place so much value on where they were drafted? All it takes is one dumb GM to put too much value on a guy and draft him too high. Or, it can be indicative of how poor of a draft it is that particular year.
At the end of the day, how good are the actual players you are surrounded by is the key. Where they were drafted, means nothing. They have yet to play a single NBA play when they are drafted. Would you rather have Wesley Matthews (not drafted) or Mario Chalmers (lottery pick) on your team?
Mario Chalmers was picked in the 2nd round 34th overall. I'm going off memory but that's the same pick as Diener (maybe Novak)
Quote from: brandx on June 13, 2014, 02:11:11 PM
Tim Duncan is THE issue. 17 years in the league - 17 years in the Playoffs.
Miami has 6 lottery picks surrounding James. I believe the Spurs have ZERO lottery picks surrounding Duncan.
All that means is that Buford is a fantastic general manager.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 13, 2014, 01:20:56 PM
That's only telling 1/2 the story.
The guy shot 55% from the field this year. That's fantastic for a guard.
He's never going to be steph curry, and Dwyane had a terrible game last night.
HOWEVER, I don't think you are seeing the big picture. A player scoring almost 20pts per night on 14 shots is a big asset.
Dwyane isn't perfect (he never was), but you're making it sound like he's not a good player, and that's simply not true. He's a good player on a good team.
I agree with this analysis. I love how this board jumps on a guy for a bad game. He is still a very valuable player for the Heat . If you watch him carefully when he is running the offense good things happen almost every trip down the floor and he has incredibly quick hands on defense. NBA playoffs frequently have blow out games so nothing to get worked up about.
Quote from: swoopem on June 13, 2014, 02:30:47 PM
Mario Chalmers was picked in the 2nd round 34th overall. I'm going off memory but that's the same pick as Diener (maybe Novak)
Thanks.
I'll edit.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 02:36:03 PM
All that means is that Buford is a fantastic general manager.
+1
And he has embraced foreign players more than any other team. Only two of the top nine players on the team are US born.
Quote from: brandx on June 13, 2014, 02:11:11 PM
Tim Duncan is THE issue. 17 years in the league - 17 years in the Playoffs.
Miami has 6 lottery picks surrounding James. I believe the Spurs have ZERO lottery picks surrounding Duncan.
A win this year puts Duncan in the conversation as a top 4 all-time NBA player.
Behind only Jordan, Jabbar, and Russell.
Duncan in the conversation with Bird, Magic, West , Havliczek etc
Come on Spurs--Kick their A--!
Quote from: brandx on June 13, 2014, 02:55:41 PM
+1
And he has embraced foreign players more than any other team. Only two of the top nine players on the team are US born.
It has to take a team to bring in foreign players that steal dreams away from our kids to build a winner?
While some may point to that as admirable I think it is tired and offensive that our players are so busy being one and done that they don't stay long enough in one place to jell and to be coached like that team is.
I resent that in a way and also to the face the Spurs are a former ABA team kicked the NBA's a-- like this.
And they have done it since they came into the NBA lone that one year. But give them credit they have caught to the U.S. in team basketball. Even Carmelo wouldn't beat the Spurs now.
They win at basketball playing the way basketball should be played not glorified AAU streetball like the LeBron James led Heatles. Good for them.
Teams arrogance gets you no where. The Spurs should have beat them in 6 games last year! And they know it.
Forget Melo they need Marcin Gortat or Greg Monroe more, and even Bargnani or Spencer Hawes! They need the right bit players not stacking Hall of Famers.
The Celtics [who the Spurs remind me of] never reverted to that! Nor the Pistons and both would have wiped the floor with Miami.
Quote from: Texas Western on June 13, 2014, 02:40:26 PM
I agree with this analysis. I love how this board jumps on a guy for a bad game. He is still a very valuable player for the Heat . If you watch him carefully when he is running the offense good things happen almost every trip down the floor and he has incredibly quick hands on defense. NBA playoffs frequently have blow out games so nothing to get worked up about.
DWade is still great....but their problem is a screen and roll Center and the ball being in LeBron's hands all the time. Break this team up. They have gone as far as they can go with it.
If Andrew Bynum was not such a dog of a player, lazy and a sorry clown of a player...he would have been PERFECT for who the Heat need.
That is who they should go and try to recruit next year and get that kids head on straight. But he is too out of shape. He is only 26 but a Gortat would help them and play Beasley or release him.
Bosh is the problem and Mario Chalmers who has to play with the second group. The Heat have not played Michael Beasley or James Jones or Greg Oden....and Toney Douglas. WHY?? Rashard Lewis? Eh.
They are being out coached by Popovich who uses his entire team who all have bought in. Erik Spolestra is clueless and does not want to upset the Big three...he has to go to bench.
But it is too late now. Spurs are in there head after the chest thumping by LeBron after game 2.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on June 14, 2014, 05:18:25 AM
DWade is still great....but their problem is a screen and roll Center and the ball being in LeBron's hands all the time. Break this team up. They have gone as far as they can go with it.
If Andrew Bynum was not such a dog of a player, lazy and a sorry clown of a player...he would have been PERFECT for who the Heat need.
That is who they should go and try to recruit next year and get that kids head on straight. But he is too out of shape. He is only 26 but a Gortat would help them and play Beasley or release him.
Bosh is the problem and Mario Chalmers who has to play with the second group. The Heat have not played Michael Beasley or James Jones or Greg Oden....and Toney Douglas. WHY?? Rashard Lewis? Eh.
They are being out coached by Popovich who uses his entire team who all have bought in. Erik Spolestra is clueless and does not want to upset the Big three...he has to go to bench.
But it is too late now. Spurs are in there head after the chest thumping by LeBron after game 2.
Your last 2 posts are clueless and make no sense. You actually think that putting stiffs like Oden, Jones and Beasley on the floor would help.
It's just the opposite. So the 9-time all-star is the problem and has-beens and never-weres like those three are the answer? Spoelstra not going to his bench is because of the crap he sees when he looks down the line.
And if you think chest thumping has anything to do with the way this series has gone, you are really clueless.
And Spoelstra should most certainly get the ball out of the hands of his best player. Are you serious?
I just don't understand the constant criticism of a team that has been to four Finals in a row and is the two time defending champion. All of the sudden the offense sucks...the players suck...the coach doesn't know what he is doing...
Complete overreactions.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 14, 2014, 01:05:22 PM
I just don't understand the constant criticism of a team that has been to four Finals in a row and is the two time defending champion. All of the sudden the offense sucks...the players suck...the coach doesn't know what he is doing...
Complete overreactions.
Everyone hates the Yankees
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 14, 2014, 01:05:22 PM
I just don't understand the constant criticism of a team that has been to four Finals in a row and is the two time defending champion. All of the sudden the offense sucks...the players suck...the coach doesn't know what he is doing...
Complete overreactions.
NearlyEverybody lives to hate the Heat, except Heat fans.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 14, 2014, 01:55:51 PM
NearlyEverybody lives to hate the Heat, except Heat fans.
I found myself cheering for them the last few years simply because of Bulls and Lakers fans being such douches about Lebron.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 14, 2014, 02:29:24 PM
I found myself cheering for them the last few years simply because of Bulls and Lakers fans being such douches about Lebron.
+1
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 14, 2014, 02:29:24 PM
I found myself cheering for them the last few years simply because of Bulls and Lakers fans being such douches about Lebron.
+1
"What you are watching is essentially 12 minutes of Dwyane Wade ambling around the court like a video game character who's been abandoned by his player."
http://deadspin.com/dwyane-wade-playing-defense-is-a-mess-1590887916
Quote from: The Lens on June 13, 2014, 09:54:47 AM
Money is not really the issue. LBJ, Bosh & Wade are all playing at below market value.
Umm what?
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 14, 2014, 04:01:02 PM
Umm what?
I think he means they adjusted their salaries to get under the cap. They make more money outside of basketball then their paychecks for the Heat.
Bosh and James have the 8th and 9th highest paid salaries in the NBA. Wade is 10th.
http://espn.go.com/nba/salaries
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 14, 2014, 01:43:47 PM
Everyone hates the Yankees
The Yankees are my favorite AL team. I'm 36; people foget the Don Mattingly Yankees (basically my entire childhood), never won.
Quote from: WI_inferiority_complexes on June 14, 2014, 04:36:16 PM
The Yankees are my favorite AL team. I'm 36; people foget the Don Mattingly Yankees (basically my entire childhood), never won.
True, and no one hated the heat until they started winning. People used to hate the red wings when they were winning. Everyone hates a Goliath. Yankees just happen to be the most famous example
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 14, 2014, 04:01:02 PM
Umm what?
Absolutely they are. Check out some of the dorks making max in the NBA.
LeBron is a great player--probably the best in the world, but he needs to quit hogging the ball on nearly every possession, and since he started promoting Obamacare, he has started to go down the tubes.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 14, 2014, 03:16:55 PM
"What you are watching is essentially 12 minutes of Dwyane Wade ambling around the court like a video game character who's been abandoned by his player."
http://deadspin.com/dwyane-wade-playing-defense-is-a-mess-1590887916
You could make an equivalent video of every single NBA player and certainly every single player on the Heat. I would say that 80% of those plays (although I quit watching after a few minutes) are not necessarily on Wade.
The Heat defense in general has not been sure of assignments and what do do on picks regarding switching or not switching.
Wade has actually overall been quite solid on D, but does take some plays off when he thinks that his man is not or will not be involved in the play.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 14, 2014, 06:07:31 PM
LeBron is a great player--probably the best in the world, but he needs to quit hogging the ball on nearly every possession, and since he started promoting Obamacare, he has started to go down the tubes.
I change my opinion. I *knew* he was a dirty player!!
(Can't teal on mobile?)
Quote from: willie warrior on June 14, 2014, 01:55:51 PM
NearlyEverybody lives to hate the Heat, except Heat fans.
I understand that people hate them. But that shouldn't cloud the fact that they have been the best NBA team over the past four years. You can't blame them for continuing what has made them successful.
I don't hate them at all. They did it within the rules and actually took pay cuts to do it, total team. Yankees and such, no salary cap and merely outspent everyone. Totally different in my view.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 14, 2014, 11:16:27 PM
I don't hate them at all. They did it within the rules and actually took pay cuts to do it, total team. Yankees and such, no salary cap and merely outspent everyone. Totally different in my view.
+1. Big difference, but the Yankees make that money, that can/should spend it accordingly.
Lebron could very well break the NBA this season. It will be amazing if he takes a massive discount to play somewhere. It would be incredible if he takes the league minimum. I doubt he would go that low, but if he did....either way he will have another great group around him to continue winning.
DWade will be a big factor. If he still thinks he's worth big money, that could give Lebron more reasoning to leave and create a new group elsewhere.
I honestly don't know if the Heat were "bad" or if the Spurs are just that good.
No joke, I have NEVER seen a team that effective in the 1/2 court.
Amazing... and they make it look so easy.
Ginobli comes off a curl, if they trail him, he turns the corner. If they double him, he throws a perfect bounce pass past the defenders feet. If they go under, he steps back and shoots it. So simple.
It's so fundamentally perfect. NO wasted movement. NO wasted dribble. Super efficient.
I actually used to enjoy watching the Heat because I thought they moved the ball pretty well, but the Spurs were on another planet with their ball movement. Incredible. Historical. Coaches at every level had to be taping this series so they could show their players. The execution was amazing.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 14, 2014, 04:15:58 PM
Bosh and James have the 8th and 9th highest paid salaries in the NBA. Wade is 10th.
http://espn.go.com/nba/salaries
In that case Bosh is wildly overpaid, Wade is significantly overpaid and Lebron is wildly underpaid.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 16, 2014, 09:29:36 AM
In that case Bosh is wildly overpaid, Wade is significantly overpaid and Lebron is wildly underpaid.
Wade may have been underpaid when they all signed, but he's looking at a significant paycut if they want to keep this together.
Quote from: PTM on June 16, 2014, 09:31:34 AM
Wade may have been underpaid when they all signed, but he's looking at a significant paycut if they want to keep this together.
Agree.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 16, 2014, 09:29:36 AM
In that case Bosh is wildly overpaid, Wade is significantly overpaid and Lebron is wildly underpaid.
This year, probably. Though the term wildly is up for grabs. Contracts are signed years ago. They got to 4 finals, won two titles and did it with three guys that were not maxed out.
I'd call that a pretty good return on investment.
Wade should drop to 13mil a year and Bosh to 11.
I kind of hope Lebron goes to Cleveland or else where.
Quote from: PTM on June 16, 2014, 09:50:00 AM
I kind of hope Lebron goes to Cleveland or else where.
I hope he goes to LA or Chicago and watch either fanbase that has whined incessantly the last 4 years tuck their tail in and now say how wonderful it is. Then, right before the season starts, LeBron retires and becomes tight end for the Packers or better yet, the Washington Redskins.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 16, 2014, 09:42:20 AM
This year, probably. Though the term wildly is up for grabs. Contracts are signed years ago. They got to 4 finals, won two titles and did it with three guys that were not maxed out.
I'd call that a pretty good return on investment.
Wholeheartedly agree.
Every franchise in every sport would like the return on investment the Heat got with these three (and the role players around them).
Dwyane is not what he used to be. The question is whether his knees can hold out and his conditioning such that he can stay a servicable NBA guard for another two to four years.
Personally, I think he's done. But I doubt he does.
Guess which opinion matters?
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 16, 2014, 12:37:00 PM
Dwyane is not what he used to be. The question is whether his knees can hold out and his conditioning such that he can stay a servicable NBA guard for another two to four years.
Personally, I think he's done. But I doubt he does.
Guess which opinion matters?
How do you define "done"?
In the season just ended, Wade averaged 19 points (#23 in NBA) on 54.5% shooting (#8 in league). Also averaged nearly 5 rebounds and 5 assists. He also was playing at a pretty high level in the playoffs until the last few games.
Now, he did play only two-thirds of the Heat's regular-season games, and he'll need to play more to really be considered a valuable player. But 19-5-5 on 55% shooting ... if that's "done," what is 17 PPG on 50% shooting (Tony Parker); 18 PPG on 39% (Kemba Walker); 16 PPG on 41% (Gordon Hayward); 14 PPG on 45% (Deron Williams); etc, etc, etc?
Quote from: MU82 on June 16, 2014, 01:04:39 PM
How do you define "done"?
In the season just ended, Wade averaged 19 points (#23 in NBA) on 54.5% shooting (#8 in league). Also averaged nearly 5 rebounds and 5 assists. He also was playing at a pretty high level in the playoffs until the last few games.
Now, he did play only two-thirds of the Heat's regular-season games, and he'll need to play more to really be considered a valuable player. But 19-5-5 on 55% shooting ... if that's "done," what is 17 PPG on 50% shooting (Tony Parker); 18 PPG on 39% (Kemba Walker); 16 PPG on 41% (Gordon Hayward); 14 PPG on 45% (Deron Williams); etc, etc, etc?
Need to use the Duncan/Ginobili model. Limit D Wade to 25 minutes a game and sit when needed during regular season. He is still better than most NBA players.
Duncan and Ginobili looked awful spry in the playoffs for being senior citizens.
Quote from: brandx on June 16, 2014, 01:09:08 PM
Need to use the Duncan/Ginobili model. Limit D Wade to 25 minutes a game and sit when needed during regular season. He is still better than most NBA players.
Duncan and Ginobili looked awful spry in the playoffs for being senior citizens.
The Heat did pretty close to that. Wade played only 54 games. He did average more than 30 mins when he played, so maybe they should reduce that. Not only might it help preserve Wade's knees, but it might help develop the depth the Heat sorely needs. Still, as I said, Wade was playing darn well in the playoffs until the last few games; was that wear and tear or just an inopportune time for a slump?
Quote from: MU82 on June 16, 2014, 01:20:15 PM
The Heat did pretty close to that. Wade played only 54 games. He did average more than 30 mins when he played, so maybe they should reduce that. Not only might it help preserve Wade's knees, but it might help develop the depth the Heat sorely needs. Still, as I said, Wade was playing darn well in the playoffs until the last few games; was that wear and tear or just an inopportune time for a slump?
I may have said slump - until I saw Splitter destroy him on the dunk attempt.
But, I think he still has a role on a good team for a couple more years.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 14, 2014, 04:15:58 PM
I think he means they adjusted their salaries to get under the cap. They make more money outside of basketball then their paychecks for the Heat.
Bosh and James have the 8th and 9th highest paid salaries in the NBA. Wade is 10th.
http://espn.go.com/nba/salaries
Those guys were grandfathered in. James threatened to sign for less with Miami and Cleveland caved and gave him the max so they could at least get 3 picks out of it. Not sure how they took less money?
Edit: I think I'm wrong. I think he just did that for the extra year?
I think Wade is a role player coming off the bench for 20-25 minutes a game going forward. He should still be able to be efficient, but his days of being the man are long gone. I would almost say I wouldn't give him more than the mid level exception if I was a GM. How much is a player who misses a third of the season and played 1300 minutes less than Lebron worth? If I was Lebron, I would get out of Miami as fast as possible. If he's hoping Wade can still play the Robin to his Batman, he is going to be in for a rude awakening.
Quote from: MU82 on June 16, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Wholeheartedly agree.
Every franchise in every sport would like the return on investment the Heat got with these three (and the role players around them).
Sure, but when 2 of the 3 guys are the best player on the planet and a top 50 of all time guy, number three can be a lot of guys. Chris Bosch is a good shooter for a tall guy. He scored a lot of points and got a lot of rebounds on a really bad team where a lot of points and rebounds were available. ROI on each? Lebron was Apple (pre split) at 100, DWade was Facebook at 25 and Bosch was Cisco at 23. One grand slam, one homer and a guy in your portfolio I'd be looking to replace.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 16, 2014, 01:50:27 PM
Sure, but when 2 of the 3 guys are the best player on the planet and a top 50 of all time guy, number three can be a lot of guys. Chris Bosch is a good shooter for a tall guy. He scored a lot of points and got a lot of rebounds on a really bad team where a lot of points and rebounds were available. ROI on each? Lebron was Apple (pre split) at 100, DWade was Facebook at 25 and Bosch was Cisco at 23. One grand slam, one homer and a guy in your portfolio I'd be looking to replace.
I agree with most of this, except I don't know who this Bosch guy is ;).
But here's the deal: When Riley/Wade/LeBron put The Big Three together, Bosh was already a multiple All-Star and was considered one of the top 3 or 4 free agents available. Somebody was going to give him max money; Toronto offered way more for him to stay. Riley, as smart as he is, knew that just Wade and LeBron wouldn't be enough. The Heat had to overpay for that third cog, even if he was a lesser cog. Not only did they need some of what Bosh had (including height), but his inclusion also was important psychologically.
Yes, Bosh is no LeBron, and he's not close to an in-his-prime Wade, either. But Bosh did get the rebound that allowed the Heat to stay alive in last year's Finals, and he did hit a huge 3 to help the Heat vanquish the Pacers a few weeks ago. He has had many excellent all-around playoff games these last 4 years. He has skills and versatility. So while he might be a role player, he's a way, way, WAY above average role player.
It's easy to say that any number of players could have filled the Bosh role next to LeBron and Wade. But with Bosh filling the Bosh role, it's a proven fact that Miami reached the Finals 4 times in 4 chances and won two titles.
Fact usually trumps opinion. (Except, of course, on Scoop!)
Not only that, but I am not sure who you can replace Bosh with. The guy has value, and someone is going to give him a lot of money. Because he doesn't clog the lane with post ups, and can shoot reasonably well, he does a good job keeping people out of the lane.
I mean, they don't win those titles without Bosh. Is he overpaid? I guess. But it's not as though there are a plethora of players out there that could do what he does.
Quote from: MU82 on June 16, 2014, 02:36:54 PM
I agree with most of this, except I don't know who this Bosch guy is ;).
But here's the deal: When Riley/Wade/LeBron put The Big Three together, Bosh was already a multiple All-Star and was considered one of the top 3 or 4 free agents available. Somebody was going to give him max money; Toronto offered way more for him to stay.
THIS. It's about timing. Bosh may not be one of the top 10 players in the NBA, but at the time the team was put together, he was one of the top free agents and that's the key. It's all a matter of who was available and who could fit into the cap. Timing is everything.
Manu looked pretty done this time last season
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 14, 2014, 01:05:22 PM
I just don't understand the constant criticism of a team that has been to four Finals in a row and is the two time defending champion. All of the sudden the offense sucks...the players suck...the coach doesn't know what he is doing...
Complete overreactions.
The coach has never known what he was doing.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 16, 2014, 06:02:16 PM
The coach has never known what he was doing.
Yeah... cuz Riley really tolerates guys who don't know what they are doing.
Quote from: MU82 on June 16, 2014, 02:36:54 PM
I agree with most of this, except I don't know who this Bosch guy is ;).
Hieronymous "Harry" Bosch, LA homicide detective and the protagonist in many of Edgar Award winning author Michael Connelly's novels. I always get him mixed up with Chris.
Quote from: MU82 on June 16, 2014, 02:36:54 PM
But here's the deal: When Riley/Wade/LeBron put The Big Three together, Bosh was already a multiple All-Star and was considered one of the top 3 or 4 free agents available. Somebody was going to give him max money; Toronto offered way more for him to stay. Riley, as smart as he is, knew that just Wade and LeBron wouldn't be enough. The Heat had to overpay for that third cog, even if he was a lesser cog. Not only did they need some of what Bosh had (including height), but his inclusion also was important psychologically.
Yes, Bosh is no LeBron, and he's not close to an in-his-prime Wade, either. But Bosh did get the rebound that allowed the Heat to stay alive in last year's Finals, and he did hit a huge 3 to help the Heat vanquish the Pacers a few weeks ago. He has had many excellent all-around playoff games these last 4 years. He has skills and versatility. So while he might be a role player, he's a way, way, WAY above average role player.
It's easy to say that any number of players could have filled the Bosh role next to LeBron and Wade. But with Bosh filling the Bosh role, it's a proven fact that Miami reached the Finals 4 times in 4 chances and won two titles.
Fact usually trumps opinion. (Except, of course, on Scoop!)
I agree that he's a way, way better than average role player. I just think a role player who's in the top ten in salary is way, way overpaid. And at that price, eminently replaceable.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 16, 2014, 08:57:00 PM
I agree that he's a way, way better than average role player. I just think a role player who's in the top ten in salary is way, way overpaid. And at that price, eminently replaceable.
1. Each of us is worth exactly what somebody will pay for our services.
2. OK, replace him with whom?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 16, 2014, 08:45:44 PM
Hieronymous "Harry" Bosch, LA homicide detective and the protagonist in many of Edgar Award winning author Michael Connelly's novels. I always get him mixed up with Chris.
Wasn't her a Dutch painter or something? Painted an album cover for Deep Purple 8-)
Their best album by the way.
Quote from: MU82 on June 16, 2014, 09:37:55 PM
1. Each of us is worth exactly what somebody will pay for our services.
2. OK, replace him with whom?
1. You really believe that nobody is overpaid or underpaid? I disagree. Bosh and Lebron make roughly the same money. They are not remotely the same ball player.
2. Maybe at that time, nobody. Quite possible that he was the best option at that time to be Miami's 3rd wheel. But right now he's just a guy and unless the Heat is inches from the goal line without him I'd let him walk rather than give him big dough.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 16, 2014, 09:58:34 PM
1. You really believe that nobody is overpaid or underpaid? I disagree. Bosh and Lebron make roughly the same money. They are not remotely the same ball player.
2. Maybe at that time, nobody. Quite possible that he was the best option at that time to be Miami's 3rd wheel. But right now he's just a guy and unless the Heat is inches from the goal line without him I'd let him walk rather than give him big dough.
He was overpaid precisely because he was the only one that could fill the niche they thought they needed. (The supply part of supply and demand.) Is there someone else now out there that could fill that role should his opt out? Who knows?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 17, 2014, 09:00:28 AM
He was overpaid precisely because he was the only one that could fill the niche they thought they needed. (The supply part of supply and demand.) Is there someone else now out there that could fill that role should his opt out? Who knows?
Agree that overpaying the last piece in a championship puzzle can make sense. But he's not the player he was then and neither is Wade. If Miami is going to spend max money on somebody it better be a Kevin Love or a Carmelo. If they hamstring themselves with big long term contracts to Bosh and Wade I think their run is over.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 17, 2014, 09:37:52 AM
Agree that overpaying the last piece in a championship puzzle can make sense. But he's not the player he was then and neither is Wade. If Miami is going to spend max money on somebody it better be a Kevin Love or a Carmelo. If they hamstring themselves with big long term contracts to Bosh and Wade I think their run is over.
Oh man I didn't even think about the possibility that they could all take cuts to get Kevin Love to join. That would be amazing to watch. Carmelo on the other hand would be an unmitigated disaster and is the exact opposite of what they need.
They have a poll on the Heat message board that asks if you will be mad at Wade if he opts into his contract. 62% of their fans would be mad according to the poll. If he opts in, he apparently will be paid 42 million over the next 2 years. The fans that wouldn't be mad, seem to think they owe him for bringing in Lebron and Bosh. They know he's not worth nearly that kind of money, but justify paying him for his accomplishments and loyalty over the years. I don't think in a sport that has a salary cap, you can just pay these players for what they have done in the past. It eventually has to catch up to the team and while Wade gave them a discount last time, I bet he nails them for the full 42 million this time around.
D Wade should have no regrets to opt in. The deal was made in good faith and two bad games at the end of the series shouldn't dictate a multi million markdown.
Also it should be noted that Labron went into his old Wilt Chamberlin act the last two games . One man teams never win no matter how good the man is.
He actually has player options for each of the next two years. (As does LBJ and Bosh.) They could very well opt in for this year, but not for the year after.
Look, if LBJ opts out, I would be very surprised if Bosh doesn't follow. He'll get big money somewhere. Wade OTOH...I don't know. My guess is that he would opt out and *someone* would give him good money and a chance at a ring. For example, the Thunder could amnesty Perkins, decline the option on Thabeet, and have room for Wade on a decent deal. (I don't think that happens, but Wade would have options.)
Wade will be in Miami for as long as they'll have him, aina?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 17, 2014, 10:14:01 AM
Wade OTOH...I don't know. My guess is that he would opt out and *someone* would give him good money and a chance at a ring. For example, the Thunder could amnesty Perkins, decline the option on Thabeet, and have room for Wade on a decent deal. (I don't think that happens, but Wade would have options.)
Unless he REALLY doesn't care about money and only cares about championships, I can't see Wade opting out no matter what. He's not getting close to $20M anywhere else. His skills aren't going to age well if he's not super-athletic. He's a no-doubt HOF-er with three rings, it's OK to take the money you negotiated and not win championships. Eventually happens to everybody.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 17, 2014, 09:37:52 AM
Agree that overpaying the last piece in a championship puzzle can make sense. But he's not the player he was then and neither is Wade. If Miami is going to spend max money on somebody it better be a Kevin Love or a Carmelo. If they hamstring themselves with big long term contracts to Bosh and Wade I think their run is over.
OK, Lenny, I'm with you on this. If we're talking about the future, the Heat would be silly to go anywhere near maxing out Bosh ... I think. What if LeBron and Wade re-up and there simply is no better alternative to Bosh, who is still young and who inexplicably gets near-max offers from other suitors? Do you want to keep contending for titles or don't you? These are always difficult questions.
Had Reinsdorf wanted to keep winning titles after '98, he could have hired Paxson as coach - despite saying he would play only for Jackson, Jordan later admitted he would have stayed to play for Paxson - and then paid to keep Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Longley, Kerr, etc. together for at least another 2-3 years. Surely, Rodman, Longley, Kerr and maybe even Pippen would have been "overpaid" in this scenario. But if the Bulls had been able to stretch the threepeat to a fivepeat, would it not have been worth it?
Teams desperate to legitimately contend for even one title "overpay" all the time. As we both say, the Heat might have done just that with Bosh. Reinsdorf willingly threw away a legitimate shot at 2-3 more championships because he was tired of paying even Jordan the huge bucks and was damn sure he wasn't going to "overpay" Pippen (who had publicly criticized him) and the others.
If LeBron commits to stay and if Wade can convince everybody he's at least as healthy as he was last season, it would be difficult to break up a championship-caliber team, no? Hey, maybe Kevin Love wants to come to Miami to replace Bosh, I don't know.
Heres a good summary of where Wade is as a player right now.
10. Dwyane Wade, G, Miami Heat
Strengths: Still D-Wade. Lethal in space, able to shift his body to create freedom of movement. Unbelievable touch with the ball, able to hit floaters, runners, mid-range pull-ups and layups all while off-balance and shifting around defenders. When he's not worn down, still has killer quickness. An all-time guy at drawing contact inside. Underrated defensively when his batteries are fully charged and he's not focused on calls. Strong team leader and quality teammate who understands what the game calls for in clutch situations. One of the smartest superstars you'll ever find.
Weaknesses: Everything has eroded. Completely ran out of battery despite extensive rest last season. Has lost much of his first-step burst. Needs to lose weight and increase conditioning to help with quickness, health, endurance, and defense. Constantly, and I mean constantly complains to officials instead of getting back defensively. No longer has energy, willingness, or strength to navigate through screens to stay with shooters. Can hardly change direction defensively at all anymore. At this point you have to wonder about how much hunger he's got left in him.
Analysis: Wade's returning to Miami. He'll come back for another contract, maybe two depending on his conditioning, retire eventually, and then join the Heat front office in a similar role to what Alonzo Mourning has done for the team. He's not going anywhere. But if for some reason Miami just decided not to pay him, he'd still help several teams. Any of the three Texas teams could use him, just from an experience standpoint. There are many nights when he will look like Wade. There are just too many when he doesn't look like he can play at all.
I must admit that I was quite surprised that Wade would opt out as he did today. It's hard to imagine -- impossible, even -- that he would command $41.8 million over two years on the open market.
Quote from: MU82 on June 28, 2014, 10:44:03 PM
I must admit that I was quite surprised that Wade would opt out as he did today. It's hard to imagine -- impossible, even -- that he would command $41.8 million over two years on the open market.
He is going to take less money to help the team add pieces.....like Tim Duncan has done for the last few years.
Wade gets it...he isn't leaving Miami and he knew if he opted in Lebron would go someplace else. Now they can reload instead.
Quote from: MU82 on June 28, 2014, 10:44:03 PM
I must admit that I was quite surprised that Wade would opt out as he did today. It's hard to imagine -- impossible, even -- that he would command $41.8 million over two years on the open market.
Sometimes it isn't about the money, especially when you have some. Good for them, I hope they can reload and add a few more pieces, just to see more heads explode. In an age when athletes are always accused of going after the money first, doesn't always have to be. They'll get paid, but they have a shot to still win it all and sacrifice a few $$$ to make that happen. Hope it works out.
Lakers fans are already pissing and moaning how unfair it is. Good Lord, have they not seen who the Lakers have been able to land as free agents the last 20 years. These people are comical out here.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2014, 01:41:49 AM
Sometimes it isn't about the money, especially when you have some. Good for them, I hope they can reload and add a few more pieces, just to see more heads explode. In an age when athletes are always accused of going after the money first, doesn't always have to be. They'll get paid, but they have a shot to still win it all and sacrifice a few $$$ to make that happen. Hope it works out.
This makes sense, as does the previous comment by MuMark.
It's easy for me to say, but,... If I'm Albert Pujols, I like to think that instead of wringing every last buck out of the Angels, I stay in St. Louis for a still-insane amount of money and play where I am comfortable and beloved. He takes "only" 175M-200M to stay there, and he is lauded for "sacrificing" personal gains. Instead, he goes for every last cent and, well, we know what has happened.
So I agree it would be cool if LeBron, Wade and Bosh worked the finances so they could achieve something special. Either way, they are rich, rich, rich. Why not be rich with 3 or 5 or 7 rings?
Quote from: MU82 on June 16, 2014, 01:04:39 PM
How do you define "done"?
In the season just ended, Wade averaged 19 points (#23 in NBA) on 54.5% shooting (#8 in league). Also averaged nearly 5 rebounds and 5 assists. He also was playing at a pretty high level in the playoffs until the last few games.
Now, he did play only two-thirds of the Heat's regular-season games, and he'll need to play more to really be considered a valuable player. But 19-5-5 on 55% shooting ... if that's "done," what is 17 PPG on 50% shooting (Tony Parker); 18 PPG on 39% (Kemba Walker); 16 PPG on 41% (Gordon Hayward); 14 PPG on 45% (Deron Williams); etc, etc, etc?
Yup. Wade is done--19 ppg and the most efficient Guard in the NBA, but people say he is done or must reinvent his game. Yet Nowitzki, Duncan and Bryant's number have all deteriorated but they are still superstuds. Bryant has not played in two years, and the only thing he reinvented is how to beat a rape charge, during his career. Bryant is getting 29 million a year to sit on his ass and bitch about the admin. Give us a break.