Nice article by Mike Hunt.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-players-enjoy-steve-wojciechowskis-style-b99284758z1-261900271.html
I think the reason he's appearing to be on his game, as opposed to in the past only on his a$$, is this from the article:
"Coming over a couple of times during practice to speak with a reporter, something Williams never would have done, Wojciechowski explained that he wants most of his time with the players to be one-on-one."
Butz never gave Hunt the time of day. Good to see Wojo talking to him so he can get something worthwhile to MU Nation.
Big difference in how Wojo's going about things also. He's actually introducing an offense beginning with the second session in July instead of waiting until well into the season!
I think Mike Hunt rubbed Buzz the wrong way and gave him the cold shoulder. At that point Hunt decided to phone it in.
Quote from: T-Bone on June 05, 2014, 08:16:35 AM
I think Mike Hunt rubbed Buzz the wrong way and gave him the cold shoulder. At that point Hunt decided to phone it in.
Or, did Brent rub Mike Hunt the wrong way, and Mike said well screw him?
Its a good article. Nice job, Hunt.
I a bit torn in my reaction though.
#1 What are the players supposed to say? "We hate the new coaches."? Of course they are going to say they like the new approach. They don't really have a choice.
HOWEVER
#2 I think one of Buzz's problems is that he's in high gear all of the time, and doesn't deal well with guys who aren't. His idea of off-season training was pushing the guys beyond their limits, and see who can take it. If you don't give 100%, he's going to find a reason for you to work harder, or you can just leave (it happened a couple of times).
Now, I'm sure Wojo is going to push the guys as well, but it sounds like there is a longer term vision in mind, with basketball skill being a big part of it.
There will be a time to push the guys and send them through a "bootcamp" scenario (every team does it), but doesn't seem like that type of work is going to be a focus for these coaches.
EDIT:
#3 I don't know if having former players is a huge advantage or not... but I can imagine that when doing skill development, it's helpful to have former high end players work individually with the current players. They are generally more qualified to talk in terms of feel and specific techniques vs rigid coaching & instruction.
"Derrick, it should feel like X", or "Try visualizing Y" etc. etc.
It's hard for guys who didn't play at a high level to have that type of nuance. But, like I said, we'll see if that actually helps or not.
One major difference between the current coaches and the previous regime is that, according to the players, the current coaches were BIG TIME PLAYERS before, and they knew what it is like to play, as opposed to just knowing how to coach.
Quote from: UticaBusBarn on June 05, 2014, 08:37:39 AM
Or, did Brent rub Mike Hunt the wrong way, and Mike said well screw him?
I'm having fun thinking about the two of them rubbing each other.
Wojo being a big time player at a big time school definitely means something to the kids. One major gripe I had with Buzz was his lack of experience as a player. Much easier for kids to relate to a coach that played at high level and easier for coach to understand players limits as a player.
Quote from: Mike Deane on June 05, 2014, 08:47:38 AM
One major difference between the current coaches and the previous regime is that, according to the players, the current coaches were BIG TIME PLAYERS before, and they knew what it is like to play, as opposed to just knowing how to coach.
Eh...they say it makes a difference, but I am not sure it really does. How many top coaches were "big time players?"
Lot of snide remarks by Hunt on Buzz. He must have really done something to annoy Hunt. Crossing my fingers that we get some solid JS articles this year. Also is it just me or in that first picture did it look like JJJ put on some muscle.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 08:53:22 AM
Eh...they say it makes a difference, but I am not sure it really does. How many top coaches were "big time players?"
Right, that's why I'm torn.
I don't know if it makes a ton of difference at the HC level... but I can see it helping individual skill development when players are dealing with assistant coaches.
Derrick and Juan specifically are guys who seem to have the athletic ability and general basketball acumen, but are lacking in some more nuanced skills (shooting specifically).
Will be interesting to watch their development. Both could be pretty good role players with moderate improvements to their shooting.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 08:53:22 AM
Eh...they say it makes a difference, but I am not sure it really does. How many top coaches were "big time players?"
How about rings on their fingers?
Quote from: chitownwarrior2011 on June 05, 2014, 08:54:43 AM
Also is it just me or in that first picture did it look like JJJ put on some muscle.
Noticed that as well.
One of the more refreshing things about Wojo is the emphasis on skills development. I got tired of Buzz's constant harping on toughness, when it was pretty clear there was a skills gap.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 05, 2014, 08:57:26 AM
Right, that's why I'm torn.
I don't know if it makes a ton of difference at the HC level... but I can see it helping individual skill development when players are dealing with assistant coaches.
Derrick and Juan specifically are guys who seem to have the athletic ability and general basketball acumen, but are lacking in some more nuanced skills (shooting specifically).
Will be interesting to watch their development. Both could be pretty good role players with moderate improvements to their shooting.
don't know about Juan and Derrick. The previous regime had probably diminished their development, and it is quite late in the game. But I expect to see vast improvement in J3 and Burton.
Quote from: Mike Deane on June 05, 2014, 09:01:18 AM
don't know about Juan and Derrick. The previous regime had probably diminished their development, and it is quite late in the game. But I expect to see vast improvement in J3 and Burton.
Agreed, but I'm just mentioning Derrick and Juan specifically because it seems like those guys have everything required to be good D1 players, but they can't shoot... at all.
Maybe an increased concentration on skill development could help them get over the hump. I'm not expecting a HUGE jump, just saying that it's conceivable that different coaching techniques could help them.
Quote from: Mike Deane on June 05, 2014, 08:57:58 AM
How about rings on their fingers?
Not sure what you are asking here.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 05, 2014, 09:07:07 AM
Agreed, but I'm just mentioning Derrick and Juan specifically because it seems like those guys have everything required to be good D1 players, but they can't shoot... at all.
Maybe an increased concentration on skill development could help them get over the hump. I'm not expecting a HUGE jump, just saying that it's conceivable that different coaching techniques could help them.
I agree with that...but I'm not sure that has to do with the coaching staff being former players. I think it is a simply different philosophies on how to coach basketball.
Buzz focused a lot on toughness and pushing players to their physical and mental limits, thinking that would make them persevere when things got difficult. Up until last year, it worked well. If this is indeed a different approach, it might work better...it might not...time will tell.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 08:53:22 AM
Eh...they say it makes a difference, but I am not sure it really does. How many top coaches were "big time players?"
Donovan and coach K... Plus Al McGuire. I mean it's not a huge sample but some of the best coaches were players. Not sure how I feel about only going the former player route but I'll wait for games for that opinion.
But anyone notice that it seems to be more of a classicly ACC style that Wojo put in? I mean the BE was always grind and tough while the ACC was finesse. Still think it'll work but will definitely be strange to our school after coaches like Al, O'Neil and Buzz
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 09:11:35 AM
I agree with that...but I'm not sure that has to do with the coaching staff being former players. I think it is a simply different philosophies on how to coach basketball.
Buzz focused a lot on toughness and pushing players to their physical and mental limits, thinking that would make them persevere when things got difficult. Up until last year, it worked well. If this is indeed a different approach, it might work better...it might not...time will tell.
Ya, as far as Buzz's techniques, I don't really have a problem with it (it worked most of the time)... but for the previously mentioned players, a new voice and some new skill instruction could make a difference. I don't think Derrick and Juan need to be any tougher. They need to be better at basketball.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 05, 2014, 08:57:26 AM
Right, that's why I'm torn.
I don't know if it makes a ton of difference at the HC level... but I can see it helping individual skill development when players are dealing with assistant coaches.
Derrick and Juan specifically are guys who seem to have the athletic ability and general basketball acumen, but are lacking in some more nuanced skills (shooting specifically).
Will be interesting to watch their development. Both could be pretty good role players with moderate improvements to their shooting.
Ted Williams was the greatest hitter of all time. Charlie Lau couldn't hit a lick. Ted was a failure as a coach/manager, Charlie is considered by some to be the greatest hitting coach of all time. Doing and teaching are two very different skill sets.
Quote from: MUunderpants on June 05, 2014, 08:49:20 AM
I'm having fun thinking about the two of them rubbing each other.
squirmy
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 05, 2014, 09:26:39 AM
Ted Williams was the greatest hitter of all time. Charlie Lau couldn't hit a lick. Ted was a failure as a coach/manager, Charlie is considered by some to be the greatest hitting coach of all time. Doing and teaching are two very different skill sets.
+1000
Wojo success or failure as a head coach will depend upon an entirely different skill set than his success as a ball player. That being said, I am firmly in the positive column.
Quote from: chitownwarrior2011 on June 05, 2014, 08:54:43 AM
Lot of snide remarks by Hunt on Buzz. He must have really done something to annoy Hunt. Crossing my fingers that we get some solid JS articles this year. Also is it just me or in that first picture did it look like JJJ put on some muscle.
JJJ on swole. Big time potential.
Hopefully Mike Hunt will be a little less sour this coming year.
It seemed at times that Buzz was coaching a football time with his emphasis on toughness instead of shooting, etc. Many times it seemed that the lack of emphasis on improving skills actually set the players back. It is good to see the new coaching philosophy. Can't wait to see the difference in this year's games.
Nice that the coaches already have the full buy-in of the players. Now they just need to win all of the basketball games and I'll be happy.
Where's JJJ's headband?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 05, 2014, 09:26:39 AM
Ted Williams was the greatest hitter of all time. Charlie Lau couldn't hit a lick. Ted was a failure as a coach/manager, Charlie is considered by some to be the greatest hitting coach of all time. Doing and teaching are two very different skill sets.
Well, the article says the assistant coaches were teaching skill, while Coach is observing. I think that means Coach will be tactician here, meaning you will have both the skills and hopefully the brain.
Quote from: Goose on June 05, 2014, 08:51:22 AM
Wojo being a big time player at a big time school definitely means something to the kids. One major gripe I had with Buzz was his lack of experience as a player. Much easier for kids to relate to a coach that played at high level and easier for coach to understand players limits as a player.
Absolutely correct. A former Warrior also told me during Crean's regime, that since T-Cubed never played the game, it was an issue.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 05, 2014, 09:26:39 AM
Ted Williams was the greatest hitter of all time. Charlie Lau couldn't hit a lick. Ted was a failure as a coach/manager, Charlie is considered by some to be the greatest hitting coach of all time. Doing and teaching are two very different skill sets.
Totally fair, but Charlie was at least a player at the MLB level.
I can't/won't pretend that former players are somehow masterful teachers... it doesn't work like that.
BUT, I can see 2 players on MU's roster who seem to have the ability, but lack a certain feel/skill when it comes to shooting. For these guys, getting specific skill instruction will be beneficial.
Buzz's teams always played hard, and they were always tough. I'd like to see what these kids can do with some more advanced skill development.
Will we see Marquette move away from having a reputation as one of the hardest working and toughest teams in college basketball? It will be interesting to see how that pans out.
Crean and Buzz were both self-made, in that they had to work twice as hard to get to their respective positions given that they were not former high level basketball players. They are proof that if you work hard enough, you can achieve great things. From a personal experience standpoint, they know only the hard work necessary to create success and therefore they both clearly stressed hard work and toughness.
Wojo was known as a tenacious and hard working basketball player. But as pointed out, he also knows from personal experience the skillset needed to succeed. Following Coach K's tutelage, perhaps he sees a different path to success, which involves stricter adherence to skills and fundamentals and less focus on abstract concepts like hustle or toughness, or paint touches or deflections (that should have been a meme matchup, if it wasn't).
It will be exciting to see the identity Wojo instills in his team. There is more than one way to skin a cat. We've just been skinning them the same way for over a decade. Will we change? To be determined....
Lenny,
Agreed on your post. I do think at college level things are slightly different. A coach is taking guys that do not all have NBA talent and can definitely help tweak things. If nothing else it definitely gives a coach more credibility in working with the kids. Have mentioned it several time but in last year several former players said to me "it is obvious that Buzz never played the game". I am not sound enough ball guy to filly understand the comment and simply took it as something very obvious was being missed. To me it meant D Wilson playing 30 minutes a night but sure much deeper than that.
What I like about Wojo is while he was a great player, highly recruited, played at a high level, etc, he seemed to be a guy who got there because he outworked people. I think he's going to be a nice hybrid of the TC / Buzz hard worker mentality + skill.
My biggest thing:
We've been damn good since 2002. Let's keep that rolling. This program doesn't need a full reboot, but tweaking never hurt.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 08:53:22 AM
Eh...they say it makes a difference, but I am not sure it really does. How many top coaches were "big time players?"
Numerically, I can't say. But John Wooden was an all-american at Purdue and things worked out pretty well in his coaching career. Al played at a high level as well. For more modern examples, Kevin Ollie just won a NC, and Danny Manning's coaching career looks promising.
That said, I am FAR more excited that we have a guy who learned coaching from one of the best (perhaps the best) coaches of the modern era.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 08:53:22 AM
Eh...they say it makes a difference, but I am not sure it really does. How many top coaches were "big time players?"
I think it means alot. It is only natural to have respect for someone who has done the job well. I have more respect for a boss who has done what I do versus one who never walked in my shoes. Same for players.
Quote from: 79Warrior on June 05, 2014, 12:30:25 PM
I think it means alot. It is only natural to have respect for someone who has done the job well. I have more respect for a boss who has done what I do versus one who never walked in my shoes. Same for players.
Yet many top coaches weren't "big time players." In fact very few of them. Marquette spent a great deal of time chasing around a guy who played at D3 Kenyon College before turning to Wojo.
I wonder how effective USAF UPI would be if none of the instructors were pilots?? A physics or engineering professor can impart theory but he can't teach you the art of flying or how to most effectively employ your aircraft with exquisite lethality. There is no substitute for experience in mastering skills. An IP with 4,000 hours and significant combat experience can not only teach proficiency but also provide insight that might save your life.
Nice article Mike Hunt.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 05, 2014, 11:17:58 AM
Absolutely correct. A former Warrior also told me during Crean's regime, that since T-Cubed never played the game, it was an issue.
I always thought it was a bigger issue with Crean. You'd see Buzz horsing around and shooting with the kids. I don't even think Crean was coordinated. I remember when Game Day was here. Bilas (?) asked Crean to talk a shot during a play walk through and he flat refused. Compare that with a diminutive guy like Izzo, who is constantly taking kids on in FT contests. It obviously not a huge thing, but it's a thing. If your coach can't make a layup, I'd think you'd be quicker to tune him out.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 12:44:21 PM
Yet many top coaches weren't "big time players." In fact very few of them. Marquette spent a great deal of time chasing around a guy who played at D3 Kenyon College before turning to Wojo.
Yes, D3. But he was all-conference as a senior and was Kenyon's all-time assist leader. Have to give him some credit.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on June 05, 2014, 12:56:35 PM
I don't even think Crean was coordinated.
But he's got a neat karate outfit.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on June 05, 2014, 12:56:35 PM
I always thought it was a bigger issue with Crean. You'd see Buzz horsing around and shooting with the kids. I don't even think Crean was coordinated. I remember when Game Day was here. Bilas (?) asked Crean to talk a shot during a play walk through and he flat refused. Compare that with a diminutive guy like Izzo, who is constantly taking kids on in FT contests. It obviously not a huge thing, but it's a thing. If your coach can't make a layup, I'd think you'd be quicker to tune him out.
[/
You could actually piss your trousers watchin' Crean try to golf. If he broke 120, it was a good round.
Like the quote from players--- Means, Wojo has been there, done that, as has the coaches. (Carawell, Nelson, and
Gainey). Any word on Diener joining the staff. Was mentioned or was it a "wish he would". GREAT ARTICLE!
Now let's change the name back to WARRIORS, WARRIORS. And never kiss a reporter's a--!
Diener has been offered the job and is considering it...but his team is still alive in Italy.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 01:15:25 PM
Diener has been offered the job and is considering it...but his team is still alive in Italy.
If I'm Diener I stay in Italy. I thought he was also a member of the Italian National Team, having become an Italian citizen.
Diener needs to weigh his options of continuing his playing career ( while enjoying La Dolce Vita ) versus bringing his family back to the homeland and continue the rest of his life pursuing a coaching career.
Quote from: keefe on June 05, 2014, 01:21:45 PM
If I'm Diener I stay in Italy. I thought he was also a member of the Italian National Team, having become an Italian citizen.
He's a dual citizen....but also has a child ready to start school.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 01:48:53 PM
He's a dual citizen....but also has a child ready to start school.
All the more reason to stay. My folks put me in Japanese grade school for the first three years. Our kids grew up overseas in completely international environments and we always felt this was one of the best gifts we gave to them. Our daughter has worked in primitive conditions in places like Somalia and Botswana and looks forward to continuing her work in the developing world once she completes her graduate work. We know that her experiences growing up in places like Indonesia are core to her career interests.
Our oldest lives in Italy. The first time I met his Italian girl friend I told my wife he's not ever coming home. She corrected me by stating that he
is home.
As much as I would like to see him as an MU assistant because he would be a great asset for the program I am not sure why he would give up his current lifestyle. Milwaukee v. Capri? C'mon.
Family is important to both of them and they are all in the midwest.
Quote from: keefe on June 05, 2014, 02:05:21 PM
Milwaukee v. Capri? C'mon.
Keefe,
I often question the sanity of living in WI from January through March. April through December is another story.
He has family ties here, and those can be tough to stay away from. I moved back to my hometown so my kids would be surrounded by grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins......
Quote from: keefe on June 05, 2014, 01:21:45 PM
If I'm Diener I stay in Italy. I thought he was also a member of the Italian National Team, having become an Italian citizen.
So then he will be changing his name to "Dienero"?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2014, 12:44:21 PM
Yet many top coaches weren't "big time players." In fact very few of them. Marquette spent a great deal of time chasing around a guy who played at D3 Kenyon College before turning to Wojo.
Who cares if they were "big time". Just playing in college ball and understanding how tough it is goes a long way.
Quote from: T-Bone on June 05, 2014, 08:16:35 AM
I think Mike Hunt rubbed Buzz the wrong way and gave him the cold shoulder. At that point Hunt decided to phone it in.
yeah it was pretty obvious the past 2 seasons that buzz had almost completely shut out the local guys, especially Hunt. i cant remember any of his blog posts or articles that referenced a one-on-one conversation. based on the way Hunt covered Buzz's departure (mentioning his insecurity, need for adoration, etc...) and the way he keeps pointing out all the things Wojo is doing that Buzz did not, seems to indicate pretty clearly that Buzz pretty clearly didnt communicate with him.
as far as the way Wojo seems to be coaching, it's definitely refreshing. I always thought buzz's style worked well for the JUCO and lower-rated guys(jimmy, jae, junior, DJO), but it didnt seem to translate as well into more skilled part of the game. MU has been an awful shooting team for almost all of Buzz's time and as was noted countless times, they won more on effort and hustle than on skill/ability.
not to say buzz didnt know what to do with a younger, more skilled group that needs to be refined a bit, but he certainly didnt seem to be able to make much progress with this years freshman.
im really looking forward to seeing a team that plays more team basketball and shoots the ball well, though i do think i'll miss the bulldog/toughness label that brought so much success...
Actually, other than the past season, Buzz's teams shot well from outside... Jerel,Wes, Lazar, Cooby and Mo (as seniors), Jimmy, DJO, Jae. Junior and Vander and Jamil also made a bunch of crucial treys in the Elite 8 season.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 05, 2014, 04:29:04 PM
Actually, other than the past season, Buzz's teams shot well from outside... Jerel,Wes, Lazar, Cooby and Mo (as seniors), Jimmy, DJO, Jae. Junior and Vander and Jamil also made a bunch of crucial treys in the Elite 8 season.
no way, the only year they shot well was lazar's senior year team, other than that they have been somewhere between bad and awful. here are %'s by season, only once did they finish higher than 140th int he country in 3pt%
2014: 32%
2013: 29%
2012: 33%
2011: 34%
2010: 41%
2009: 34%
Quote from: Goose on June 05, 2014, 11:50:28 AM
Lenny,
Agreed on your post. I do think at college level things are slightly different. A coach is taking guys that do not all have NBA talent and can definitely help tweak things. If nothing else it definitely gives a coach more credibility in working with the kids. Have mentioned it several time but in last year several former players said to me "it is obvious that Buzz never played the game". I am not sound enough ball guy to filly understand the comment and simply took it as something very obvious was being missed. To me it meant D Wilson playing 30 minutes a night but sure much deeper than that.
I always thought that showed up in his substitution patterns. How many times in the last 6 years did we see guys enter the game and be back out again in less that 30-60 seconds?
The other thing that drove me crazy is that he didn't have any idea how to go to the "hot" hand. His habit of subbing for a guy that had just hit 2 or 3 shots drove me nuts.
Quote from: mu-rara on June 05, 2014, 02:17:38 PM
Keefe,
I often question the sanity of living in WI from January through March. April through December is another story.
He has family ties here, and those can be tough to stay away from. I moved back to my hometown so my kids would be surrounded by grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins......
Something I have never known, rara. I am the third generation of military pilots so a transient lifestyle is in the DNA. I saw how my wife's family congregated for events and holidays and know there is a lot to be said for that. My side never had that so I am grateful for my wife's family traditions, especially for my children.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 05, 2014, 11:37:37 AM
Totally fair, but Charlie was at least a player at the MLB level.
I can't/won't pretend that former players are somehow masterful teachers... it doesn't work like that.
BUT, I can see 2 players on MU's roster who seem to have the ability, but lack a certain feel/skill when it comes to shooting. For these guys, getting specific skill instruction will be beneficial.
Buzz's teams always played hard, and they were always tough. I'd like to see what these kids can do with some more advanced skill development.
Agree. John Wooden was a phenomenal college basketball player...he was also an ok coach.
Also harder to be a great coach than a great player imo. A lot more has to go right.
When is he going to have the Scott Merritt interview done? Lady Warriors hoopin' it up
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 05, 2014, 11:43:30 PM
Also harder to be a great coach than a great player imo. A lot more has to go right.
Switching sports on you...but that's one of my favorite answers from wrestling and coaching legend Dan Gable. When asked whether he was prouder of his wrestling record or his coaching record, he didn't hesitate in saying coaching. Essentially, he said it's harder and more rewarding to bring excellence out of others than to bring it out of yourself. Easy for him to say, since he was probably the greatest wrestler of all time. I (and others) have often said that Michael Jordan was the Dan Gable of basketball.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 06, 2014, 07:36:50 AM
Switching sports on you...but that's one of my favorite answers from wrestling and coaching legend Dan Gable. When asked whether he was prouder of his wrestling record or his coaching record, he didn't hesitate in saying coaching. Essentially, he said it's harder and more rewarding to bring excellence out of others than to bring it out of yourself. Easy for him to say, since he was probably the greatest wrestler of all time. I (and others) have often said that Michael Jordan was the Dan Gable of basketball.
100% agree. There are also circumstances in coaching that can make being "successful" a challenge that may be impossible or very difficult to achieve vs individual accomplishments. a lot has to go right when muliple people are involved, including talent levels.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 06, 2014, 07:36:50 AM
Switching sports on you...but that's one of my favorite answers from wrestling and coaching legend Dan Gable. When asked whether he was prouder of his wrestling record or his coaching record, he didn't hesitate in saying coaching. Essentially, he said it's harder and more rewarding to bring excellence out of others than to bring it out of yourself. Easy for him to say, since he was probably the greatest wrestler of all time. I (and others) have often said that Michael Jordan was the Dan Gable of basketball.
One of the greatest in any sport. This is a man who has done it to the absolute highest standards as a player, coach, and member of his community. Comparing the morally obtuse Michael Jordan with Dan Gable is far too superficial and demeans the character, integrity, and honor of a true man. Jordan was a great basketball player but quite frankly he is not worthy of even sniffing Dan Gable's jock strap.
Quote from: keefe on June 06, 2014, 12:39:34 PM
One of the greatest in any sport. This is a man who has done it to the absolute highest standards as a player, coach, and member of his community. Comparing the morally obtuse Michael Jordan with Dan Gable is far too superficial and demeans the character, integrity, and honor of a true man. Jordan was a great basketball player but quite frankly he is not worthy of even sniffing Dan Gable's jock strap.
You'll get no argument from me. Gable was one of my heroes when I was growing up...and is even more now. I had a chance to meet him very briefly years ago, and got his autograph. Without question, the most starstruck I've ever been. I grew up wanting my parents to buy me a pair of Gables...not Jordans.
Don't look now, but Cael Sanderson has already exceeded Gable's record as a wrestler and may do so as a coach as well.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 06, 2014, 01:15:49 PM
Don't look now, but Cael Sanderson has already exceeded Gable's record as a wrestler and may do so as a coach as well.
Exceeded as a wrestler? I disagree. May exceed his record as a coach? Perhaps. Time will tell.
And for the record, I'm also a big fan of Sanderson. I was following closely and rooting for him to finish his NCAA career undefeated. He's incredible. Obviously the undefeated collegiate career and four NCAA titles exceeds Gable as an college wrestler, but there's more to it than that. Obviously, winning the Olympic gold medal without giving up a single point is a biggie.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 06, 2014, 01:32:39 PM
Exceeded as a wrestler? I disagree. May exceed his record as a coach? Perhaps. Time will tell.
And for the record, I'm also a big fan of Sanderson. I was following closely and rooting for him to finish his NCAA career undefeated. He's incredible. Obviously the undefeated collegiate career and four NCAA titles exceeds Gable as an college wrestler, but there's more to it than that. Obviously, winning the Olympic gold medal without giving up a single point is a biggie.
Yeah that is why I said his *record* as a wrestler. I don't know enough to know who was actually the better wrestler.
Quote from: keefe on June 06, 2014, 12:39:34 PM
One of the greatest in any sport. This is a man who has done it to the absolute highest standards as a player, coach, and member of his community. Comparing the morally obtuse Michael Jordan with Dan Gable is far too superficial and demeans the character, integrity, and honor of a true man. Jordan was a great basketball player but quite frankly he is not worthy of even sniffing Dan Gable's jock strap.
I have a print by Leroy Neiman hanging in my family room titled "Gable's Gold", a gift from one of my oldest and best friends and a guy I wrestled with in high school. Gable was America's most famous athlete in eastern Europe and anyplace else where amateur wrestling was popular.