Who do you all WANT to win the NBA Finals?
Who do you THINK will win the NBA Finals?
WHY?
I want the spurs to win and I think they will win. Much more depth, and the spurs can match the 3pt shooting of Miami(Green,diaw,ginobili,bonner). Also I think Coach Pop is the key. There's plenty of tape to watch from last year and he'll make the appropriate adjustments.
Except for one man: Lebron. As coach Vogel stated, the jordan of our era
Quote from: MUeng on June 01, 2014, 12:44:53 AM
Except for one man: Lebron. As coach Vogel stated, the jordan of our era
Comparing LeBron to MJ is a disgrace to MJ.
Plus it's not really a good comparison. Kobe's game (and demeaner) is more MJ while LeBron's game (but not really demeaner) is more Magic. LeBron is a middle class man's Magic, in my opinion.
(This is coming from someone who is not an MJ fan and is a Bulls hater...except for JFB, of course. And from someone who would put both Kobe and LeBron in his top 5 least favorite NBA players.)
Heat in six
I am not a communist or someone who hates old people, but, even if they weren't playing an MU player in the Finals, I would want the Spurs to lose. I can't explain it. I like the coach and Duncan in their interviews. I normally seek out teams to root for that win without all the extra crap that would give you a reason to dislike them.
For some reason though, I just can't stand the Spurs
No question Heat. Duh, Wade. And in a perfect world he'd channel his 2006 and 2011 (which should have been good enough for another championship & Finals MVP had LeBron not sulked/shrunk from the moment) Finals performances and increase his already off-the-charts stature as a recruiting tool for our beloved MU hoops program. It just makes sense.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 01, 2014, 01:07:49 AM
Comparing LeBron to MJ is a disgrace to MJ.
Plus it's not really a good comparison. Kobe's game (and demeaner) is more MJ while LeBron's game (but not really demeaner) is more Magic. LeBron is a middle class man's Magic, in my opinion.
(This is coming from someone who is not an MJ fan and is a Bulls hater...except for JFB, of course. And from someone who would put both Kobe and LeBron in his top 5 least favorite NBA players.)
why the dislike for Lebron?
I don't really want a team to win. I want a good series.
I think the Spurs are better than last year, but Miami has the best player on the planet.
Quote from: MUeng on June 01, 2014, 10:53:54 AM
why the dislike for Lebron?
Just personally don't care for how he plays the game and how he makes everything about himself. I am a big fan of players who always seem to be under control of their emotions and the game. Also a big fan of players who are just "smooth" with their movements on the court, make incredibly difficult things look routine, and players who act like they've been there before as opposed to a herky jerky style and a player who gets overly emotional for an everyday play in the NBA. So the types of players I like are the Steph Curry's, Kevin Durant's, and Dwyane Wade's (especially before LeBron and Bosh came to town) vs. players I personally don't care for like LeBron, Russell Westbrook, and Blake Griffin.
Just a personal preference as to the style of play I like. I hate that LeBron acts like every dunk is the first time he's ever dunked a basketball, that he stares down defenders when he dunks, that he gets all pissy when he would ever
actually get called for a foul or not have a foul called on his defender when he's doing his bull in a China shop, lower the shoulder and just run to the rim regardless of what gets in your way act. I hate that he jumps on scorers tables and fist pumps his chest after winning a game to go up 3-1 in a Eastern Conference Semis against a team whose "All Star" point guard forgot how to play basketball and whose 2 other "stars" are nearing 40 years old in a season where you are 2 time defending NBA champions. Act like you've been there. How he voices his disappointment that he missed a free throw that would've given him 50 points after a meaningless foul in a blowout win with 1.1 seconds left to end with 49 points instead of 50, as if that made a difference in how good of a game he played, rather than focusing on the fact that they just went up 3-1 in the series. Who cares about 1 extra personal point? How he lobbies for MVP votes to the media after scoring 61 points in a game in January. Not many professionals lobby for individual awards in a team sport. He's just all about him and it's not something that is something I personally care for. The Decision was 100%, perfectly LeBron James. It perfectly defines his personality. Everything about it. Having to join 2 other top 10 players at the time, having to make it a public spectacle, how he had to make it all about him. Just lame.
Obviously he is an incredible talent. And there is also a time and place to show your emotions, get fired up, etc. Plus just about every star in the NBA expects to get star treatment/calls and complain when they don't. I just feel like players like LeBron and Westbrook are over the top with it.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2014, 11:47:59 PM
Just personally don't care for how he plays the game and how he makes everything about himself. I am a big fan of players who always seem to be under control of their emotions and the game. Also a big fan of players who are just "smooth" with their movements on the court, make incredibly difficult things look routine, and players who act like they've been there before as opposed to a herky jerky style and a player who gets overly emotional for an everyday play in the NBA. So the types of players I like are the Steph Curry's, Kevin Durant's, and Dwyane Wade's (especially before LeBron and Bosh came to town) vs. players I personally don't care for like LeBron, Russell Westbrook, and Blake Griffin.
Just a personal preference as to the style of play I like. I hate that LeBron acts like every dunk is the first time he's ever dunked a basketball, that he stares down defenders when he dunks, that he gets all pissy when he would ever actually get called for a foul or not have a foul called on his defender when he's doing his bull in a China shop, lower the shoulder and just run to the rim regardless of what gets in your way act. I hate that he jumps on scorers tables and fist pumps his chest after winning a game to go up 3-1 in a Eastern Conference Semis against a team whose "All Star" point guard forgot how to play basketball and whose 2 other "stars" are nearing 40 years old in a season where you are 2 time defending NBA champions. Act like you've been there. How he voices his disappointment that he missed a free throw that would've given him 50 points after a meaningless foul in a blowout win with 1.1 seconds left to end with 49 points instead of 50, as if that made a difference in how good of a game he played, rather than focusing on the fact that they just went up 3-1 in the series. Who cares about 1 extra personal point? How he lobbies for MVP votes to the media after scoring 61 points in a game in January. Not many professionals lobby for individual awards in a team sport. He's just all about him and it's not something that is something I personally care for. The Decision was 100%, perfectly LeBron James. It perfectly defines his personality. Everything about it. Having to join 2 other top 10 players at the time, having to make it a public spectacle, how he had to make it all about him. Just lame.
Obviously he is an incredible talent. And there is also a time and place to show your emotions, get fired up, etc. Plus just about every star in the NBA expects to get star treatment/calls and complain when they don't. I just feel like players like LeBron and Westbrook are over the top with it.
Quit pissing around and tell us why you don't like the guy!
Quote from: keefe on June 02, 2014, 11:55:58 PM
Quit pissing around and tell us why you don't like the guy!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2DN0UWNEFeQ
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2014, 12:16:23 AM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2DN0UWNEFeQ
There are no points for second place...
http://www.youtube.com/v/p890hIa1w9k?hl=en_US&version=3&rel=0
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2014, 12:16:23 AM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2DN0UWNEFeQ
Actually, i love it. When his career is over, he'll be top 3 of all time, easy. I like the confidence he has and his drive to win and you can really see it in the playoffs. I think a lot of dislike for Lebron stems purely from jealousy.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2014, 11:47:59 PM
Just personally don't care for how he plays the game and how he makes everything about himself. I am a big fan of players who always seem to be under control of their emotions and the game. Also a big fan of players who are just "smooth" with their movements on the court, make incredibly difficult things look routine, and players who act like they've been there before as opposed to a herky jerky style and a player who gets overly emotional for an everyday play in the NBA. So the types of players I like are the Steph Curry's, Kevin Durant's, and Dwyane Wade's (especially before LeBron and Bosh came to town) vs. players I personally don't care for like LeBron, Russell Westbrook, and Blake Griffin.
Just a personal preference as to the style of play I like. I hate that LeBron acts like every dunk is the first time he's ever dunked a basketball, that he stares down defenders when he dunks, that he gets all pissy when he would ever actually get called for a foul or not have a foul called on his defender when he's doing his bull in a China shop, lower the shoulder and just run to the rim regardless of what gets in your way act. I hate that he jumps on scorers tables and fist pumps his chest after winning a game to go up 3-1 in a Eastern Conference Semis against a team whose "All Star" point guard forgot how to play basketball and whose 2 other "stars" are nearing 40 years old in a season where you are 2 time defending NBA champions. Act like you've been there. How he voices his disappointment that he missed a free throw that would've given him 50 points after a meaningless foul in a blowout win with 1.1 seconds left to end with 49 points instead of 50, as if that made a difference in how good of a game he played, rather than focusing on the fact that they just went up 3-1 in the series. Who cares about 1 extra personal point? How he lobbies for MVP votes to the media after scoring 61 points in a game in January. Not many professionals lobby for individual awards in a team sport. He's just all about him and it's not something that is something I personally care for. The Decision was 100%, perfectly LeBron James. It perfectly defines his personality. Everything about it. Having to join 2 other top 10 players at the time, having to make it a public spectacle, how he had to make it all about him. Just lame.
Obviously he is an incredible talent. And there is also a time and place to show your emotions, get fired up, etc. Plus just about every star in the NBA expects to get star treatment/calls and complain when they don't. I just feel like players like LeBron and Westbrook are over the top with it.
Geezer for sure!!!!
Good stuff from Le Batard on the Heat.
http://deadspin.com/dan-le-batard-savages-the-pacers-and-all-of-indiana-in-1585014118
Quote from: MUEng92 on June 01, 2014, 08:24:41 AM
I am not a communist or someone who hates old people, but, even if they weren't playing an MU player in the Finals, I would want the Spurs to lose. I can't explain it. I like the coach and Duncan in their interviews. I normally seek out teams to root for that win without all the extra crap that would give you a reason to dislike them.
For some reason though, I just can't stand the Spurs
I agree completely. I really like and respect both Pop and Duncan...but for some reason, I really don't like that team.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2014, 12:16:23 AM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2DN0UWNEFeQ
So he's honest, (and correct BTW...He's frankly already up there), and you don't like that? You think MJ wouldn't say he belongs on Mt. Rushmore? Never have and never will understand people's distaste for LeBron. He's as good a player that has ever played the game, yet has this completely faulty reputation among a segment of the population that when pressed seem to only come up with the decision, or, "I just don't like the guy."
All about him is a complete joke. Ask Wade if LeBron is all about LeBron. Who is that guy that has to go out and guard even position on the floor, and is willing and able to do it any time its needed? That's the guys you want to label as 100% about LeBron?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 03, 2014, 09:12:12 AM
So he's honest, (and correct BTW...He's frankly already up there), and you don't like that? You think MJ wouldn't say he belongs on Mt. Rushmore? Never have and never will understand people's distaste for LeBron. He's as good a player that has ever played the game, yet has this completely faulty reputation among a segment of the population that when pressed seem to only come up with the decision, or, "I just don't like the guy."
All about him is a complete joke. Ask Wade if LeBron is all about LeBron. Who is that guy that has to go out and guard even position on the floor, and is willing and able to do it any time its needed? That's the guys you want to label as 100% about LeBron?
I have never in my life seen anybody other than LeBron voice disappointment at the difference between 50 points and 49 points in a blowout win. Never. 1 point different, but 50 just sounds cool so LeBron needed it. Never heard anybody other than LeBron openly lobby for MVP votes to the media. Never ever seen anybody have an hour long show to announce that he's not good enough to win a championship by himself, so he'll join 2 other top 10 players in the NBA to do so. Never seen another player jump on a scorer's table after a win to go up 3-1 in a Conference Semifinals series (and he didn't even hit a game winner, and they had won the last 2 NBA Championships). He's all about him.
Spurs in 5, maybe 6.
Want: Spurs
Think: Heat
Why?: Like a good portion of the country I dislike the Heat. It all goes back to day 1 and the WWE style entrance to the "pep rally."
The Spurs are pretty much the organization I would want my team to be like.
Want Heat
Think Spurs
Go with mind, over heart
West was much better than east this year. Heat not as good as last year, could have easily lost last year.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on June 03, 2014, 01:41:45 PM
Why?: Like a good portion of the country I dislike the Heat. It all goes back to day 1 and the WWE style entrance to the "pep rally."
I must admit, five years later I can't figure out why people are still so bothered by what essentially was a dumb PR stunt.
If anything, you have to admire the fact that they pretty much put their money where their mouth is. They will either have a 14-2 or a 15-1, playoff series record after this year. That's pretty damn good. And it's not like they are in your face about it either.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2014, 08:28:24 AM
All 25 years of me.
That's surprising. Well, you think showboating, I'm thinking showmanship. Just a little something to keep us interested.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on June 03, 2014, 03:09:01 PM
That's surprising. Well, you think showboating, I'm thinking showmanship. Just a little something to keep us interested.
Again, just my personal preference. I know LeBron James is not the only one who does it. Far from it.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 03, 2014, 01:51:30 PM
I must admit, five years later I can't figure out why people are still so bothered by what essentially was a dumb PR stunt.
If anything, you have to admire the fact that they pretty much put their money where their mouth is. They will either have a 14-2 or a 15-1, playoff series record after this year. That's pretty damn good. And it's not like they are in your face about it either.
I know it's not their fault, but the Heat are definitely in our face... even though other people put them there. ESPN's Heat Index? Every article about what Lebron thinks about x, y, and z not relating to Lebron.
In every sport there is a team I enjoy rooting against. For the NBA it just happens to be the Heat. Helps that they are also a Bulls rival and I'm a Bulls fan.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 03, 2014, 09:12:12 AM
So he's honest, (and correct BTW...He's frankly already up there), and you don't like that? You think MJ wouldn't say he belongs on Mt. Rushmore? Never have and never will understand people's distaste for LeBron. He's as good a player that has ever played the game, yet has this completely faulty reputation among a segment of the population that when pressed seem to only come up with the decision, or, "I just don't like the guy."
Sorry you are just wrong. He is not as good as anyone who has ever played the game. He is not as good as MJ (not even close), not as good as guys like Kareem and Wilt who were so good that the rules had to be changed to make the game fair for everyone else, not as good as Russell.
He has put himself in the conversation with the next level - Bird, Magic, Kobe, Duncan. And it is very possible he will be in the top 5 of all time before he is done (3 or 4 more years of continued excellence).
Quote from: brandx on June 03, 2014, 06:27:05 PM
Sorry you are just wrong. He is not as good as anyone who has ever played the game. He is not as good as MJ (not even close), not as good as guys like Kareem and Wilt who were so good that the rules had to be changed to make the game fair for everyone else, not as good as Russell.
He has put himself in the conversation with the next level - Bird, Magic, Kobe, Duncan. And it is very possible he will be in the top 5 of all time before he is done (3 or 4 more years of continued excellence).
Admittedly I am not a big Lebron fan. I agree with all of this. The key is a simple question.
If you can chose between the following people. You can pick one to build your team around, who do you pick.
MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Lebron
Duncan
Kobe
I'm definitely not picking Lebron. Just from this list, I would pick MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Bird, Magic, and Duncan to build my team around before Lebron. I would likely pick him before Kobe.
Part of the reason is that I don't view Lebron as really being a team player, he's more about himself. The people above make everyone on the team around them better...I don't see the same for Lebron.
I would like to see Lebron have to have played in the Magic/Bird/MJ era. I honestly don't think he would have been anywhere near the same type of player. Imagine him going up agains the Old Pistons, where they would beat him into submission. I don't think he could handle that type of era...
You guys are crazy. He's better than most of those guys for one simple reason that is almost always over looked in these discussions...the guy can guard all five positions...well. That alone makes him the best defensive player on that list. He can also score from anywhere on the court, pretty much any time.
As for him being all about himself, and not making others around him better, what are you talking about? Dwayne Wade can barely walk anymore, Chris Bosh is really not a very good player, yet he produces. Ray Allen turned 72 last week, and still helps that team.
They changed the rules because of some of those guys...that's true, but lets get real, had LeBron come long at that time instead, they would have had to change the rules because of him too, so that isn't really much of an argument.
People like some of you continue to let your opinion of the guy personally cloud what you see (or perhaps dont actually see) on the court. The fact that someone would say he's "not even close" to as good as MJ, says a bit about the validity of the opinion. Better? No (not yet anyway). Not even close? You're fooling yourself.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 03, 2014, 08:32:10 PM
You guys are crazy. He's better than most of those guys for one simple reason that is almost always over looked in these discussions...the guy can guard all five positions...well. That alone makes him the best defensive player on that list. He can also score from anywhere on the court, pretty much any time.
As for him being all about himself, and not making others around him better, what are you talking about? Dwayne Wade can barely walk anymore, Chris Bosh is really not a very good player, yet he produces. Ray Allen turned 72 last week, and still helps that team.
They changed the rules because of some of those guys...that's true, but lets get real, had LeBron come long at that time instead, they would have had to change the rules because of him too, so that isn't really much of an argument.
People like some of you continue to let your opinion of the guy personally cloud what you see (or perhaps dont actually see) on the court. The fact that someone would say he's "not even close" to as good as MJ, says a bit about the validity of the opinion. Better? No (not yet anyway). Not even close? You're fooling yourself.
Go watch Game 5 of the Indiana series again. Last play of the game where he kicks it out to Bosh. People criticized him for giving up the ball, but they missed the bigger issue.
They put Hibbert on Lebron's right side (guarding his right hand). Lebrons defender let him go left if he wanted to, where the lane was open and only one offense player on that side (closely guarded by defender). If he would have went Left, he had the entire lane, but didn't.
Lebron can't go left very well...it has always been a weakness of his and as far as defense is concerned, in my opinion he is highly over-rated. He has flashy shot-blocking ability and he can guard 5-positions, but really doesn't excel at guarding any of them. His lateral quickness isn't good enough. Straight line speed, great for a man his size, but lateral quickness more of a struggle. That is why people liken him to a bull in a china shop.
That said he is still an all time great, just not a top 5 all time player.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 03, 2014, 08:32:10 PM
You guys are crazy. He's better than most of those guys for one simple reason that is almost always over looked in these discussions...the guy can guard all five positions...well. That alone makes him the best defensive player on that list. He can also score from anywhere on the court, pretty much any time.
As for him being all about himself, and not making others around him better, what are you talking about? Dwayne Wade can barely walk anymore, Chris Bosh is really not a very good player, yet he produces. Ray Allen turned 72 last week, and still helps that team.
They changed the rules because of some of those guys...that's true, but lets get real, had LeBron come long at that time instead, they would have had to change the rules because of him too, so that isn't really much of an argument.
People like some of you continue to let your opinion of the guy personally cloud what you see (or perhaps dont actually see) on the court. The fact that someone would say he's "not even close" to as good as MJ, says a bit about the validity of the opinion. Better? No (not yet anyway). Not even close? You're fooling yourself.
+ a gajillion
Not a LeBron fan, wished ill will on him after the whole decision thing, but this whole not a team player thing, good Lord, look what he had to do with those dumpster fire teams in Cleveland. The best player he ever played his first 7 years was Drew Gooden, yeah, Drew fuckin Gooden. So yeah, he might need to be the man.
As for all that other BS about getting 50 points, or jumping on a scorers table, Jordan, in a real game, not practice, shot a free throw with his eyes closed. If you judging guys a jag bag behavior, cmon. And with all mega stars, you could find instances of them doing stupid crap like that.
When Bron retires with around 7 or 8 rings, lock this down, there will be a legitimate debate about who was better, him or Jordan. Guess we will see.
Quote from: reinko on June 03, 2014, 09:29:24 PM
+ a gajillion
Not a LeBron fan, wished ill will on him after the whole decision thing, but this whole not a team player thing, good Lord, look what he had to do with those dumpster fire teams in Cleveland. The best player he ever played his first 7 years was Drew Gooden, yeah, Drew unnatural carnal knowledgein Gooden. So yeah, he might need to be the man.
As for all that other BS about getting 50 points, or jumping on a scorers table, Jordan, in a real game, not practice, shot a free throw with his eyes closed. If you judging guys a jag bag behavior, cmon. And with all mega stars, you could find instances of them doing stupid crap like that.
When Bron retires with around 7 or 8 rings, lock this down, there will be a legitimate debate about who was better, him or Jordan. Guess we will see.
He also played with Mo Williams (An All-star), Big Z (also an All-star) and Shaq (ok he was old at this point).
Quote from: reinko on June 03, 2014, 09:29:24 PM
+ a gajillion
Not a LeBron fan, wished ill will on him after the whole decision thing, but this whole not a team player thing, good Lord, look what he had to do with those dumpster fire teams in Cleveland. The best player he ever played his first 7 years was Drew Gooden, yeah, Drew unnatural carnal knowledgein Gooden. So yeah, he might need to be the man.
As for all that other BS about getting 50 points, or jumping on a scorers table, Jordan, in a real game, not practice, shot a free throw with his eyes closed. If you judging guys a jag bag behavior, cmon. And with all mega stars, you could find instances of them doing stupid crap like that.
When Bron retires with around 7 or 8 rings, lock this down, there will be a legitimate debate about who was better, him or Jordan. Guess we will see.
I said Lebron may be good enough to be considered one of the top 5 players of all time and I'm knocking him?
But as much as I hate the Bulls, Lebron is no MJ. Period. Not offensively and not defensively.
Quote from: brandx on June 03, 2014, 10:10:15 PM
I said Lebron may be good enough to be considered one of the top 5 players of all time and I'm knocking him?
But as much as I hate the Bulls, Lebron is no MJ. Period. Not offensively and not defensively.
Agreed. Never said he wasn't an insanely talented player. He's the best in the world right now. I just personally do not like how he plays and how he carries himself. I never liked Jordan either. But LeBron is not Jordan.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2014, 10:15:37 PM
Agreed. Never said he wasn't an insanely talented player. He's the best in the world right now. I just personally do not like how he plays and how he carries himself. I never liked Jordan either. But LeBron is not Jordan.
I used to feel the same way, but think Lebron has gotten much better as he has matured.
I try to cut them a little slack as they were all primadonnas in HS. Takes a while for some to grow up. Some never do - but I think Lebron has made an effort to recognize & respect the history of the game. Got a ways to go, but he has gotten better since the first 2 years in Miami.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on June 03, 2014, 05:03:06 PM
I know it's not their fault, but the Heat are definitely in our face... even though other people put them there. ESPN's Heat Index? Every article about what Lebron thinks about x, y, and z not relating to Lebron.
In every sport there is a team I enjoy rooting against. For the NBA it just happens to be the Heat. Helps that they are also a Bulls rival and I'm a Bulls fan.
Well it's hard to blame them for something that isn't their fault.
But I understand the rivalry thing.
Quote from: brandx on June 03, 2014, 06:27:05 PM
Sorry you are just wrong. He is not as good as anyone who has ever played the game. He is not as good as MJ (not even close), not as good as guys like Kareem and Wilt who were so good that the rules had to be changed to make the game fair for everyone else, not as good as Russell.
He has put himself in the conversation with the next level - Bird, Magic, Kobe, Duncan. And it is very possible he will be in the top 5 of all time before he is done (3 or 4 more years of continued excellence).
Lebron James is way better than Larry Bird. My guess is that 90% of NBA GMs would take James over peak Larry Bird. I'm sorry but I watched both of them play their entire career, and while Bird is definitely top 10-15, he is not James.
And let's not forget that with all the talk about who James has around him, Bird played with three other Hall of Fame players at their peak. (Parrish, Johnson and McHale.)
But he's not Michael Jordan.
Quote from: forgetful on June 03, 2014, 10:04:19 PM
He also played with Mo Williams (An All-star), Big Z (also an All-star) and Shaq (ok he was old at this point).
Mo Williams and Big Z were all stars like BJ Armstrong was an all star. (IOW, if they aint playing with one of the best five players of all time, they aint all stars.)
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2014, 10:15:37 PM
Agreed. Never said he wasn't an insanely talented player. He's the best in the world right now. I just personally do not like how he plays and how he carries himself. I never liked Jordan either. But LeBron is not Jordan.
How does James carry himself? Jeez if anything he is more likable than most of the guys we are talking about .
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2014, 08:03:31 AM
How does James carry himself? Jeez if anything he is more likable than most of the guys we are talking about .
Agree. The way wadesworld talks, I thought he was a old geezer.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2014, 07:59:21 AM
Mo Williams and Big Z were all stars like BJ Armstrong was an all star. (IOW, if they aint playing with one of the best five players of all time, they aint all stars.)
Big Z was an all-star before playing with Lebron...after Lebron he was never an all-star again. Mo, was an all-star with Lebron, but he was averaging 17 its, 6 assists a game before ever playing with him, and continued to do that (or better) after. His overall averages actually were worse playing alongside Lebron (more points 17.8 vs. 17.2, but assists dropped from 6.3 to 4.1).
For the record also, BJ Armstrong was an all-star in 1994, the year Jordan was not with the team.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2014, 07:56:30 AM
Lebron James is way better than Larry Bird. My guess is that 90% of NBA GMs would take James over peak Larry Bird. I'm sorry but I watched both of them play their entire career, and while Bird is definitely top 10-15, he is not James.
And let's not forget that with all the talk about who James has around him, Bird played with three other Hall of Fame players at their peak. (Parrish, Johnson and McHale.)
But he's not Michael Jordan.
As a rookie Bird led the Celtics from 29-53 to 61-21. That is a 32 game improvement.
And no, there was no McHale, no Parrish, no Denis Johnson. Just a brutally old, awful roster.
Quote from: brandx on June 04, 2014, 11:33:22 AM
As a rookie Bird led the Celtics from 29-53 to 61-21. That is a 32 game improvement.
And no, there was no McHale, no Parrish, no Denis Johnson. Just a brutally old, awful roster.
That "brutally old, awful roster" included two other Hall of Famers (Archibald and Cowens - both 31 years old), Cedric Maxwell (2nd year), and they also acquired ML Carr that year.
Undoubtedly the main reason was Bird. Bird was a great player. But let's not act like he had nothing around him.
EDIT: And I will admit that Cowens was worn down and not near the player he was earlier, but Archibald was free of injury that year for the first time in awhile. And this year marked the first of three straight All Star Games.
38 year old Tim Duncan didn't have a problem last night. Jordan played with the flu/was hungover. Willis Reed played with a torn muscle in his leg. Lebron can't play without A/C.
Marquette fans and those fans of Dominic James should know better than the question a player who can't play through a cramp.
Quote from: PTM on June 06, 2014, 08:21:25 AM
Marquette fans and those fans of Dominic James should know better than the question a player who can't play through a cramp.
True. But it's fun to pile on.
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 06, 2014, 08:16:44 AM
38 year old Tim Duncan didn't have a problem last night. Jordan played with the flu/was hungover. Willis Reed played with a torn muscle in his leg. Lebron can't play without A/C.
I know you are kidding, but these are the types of comments that many sports fans are just dopes.
So this is going to be the line. Lebron James is too much of a p*ssy to play through a cramp. He could have come back into a four point game in the NBA Finals, but he's not man enough to do so.
The LeBron talk is nauseating. That was a really good basketball game that is being overshadowed by a slew of hot sports takes.
I think the difference between the Spurs and Heat down the stretch was on the defensive end. Miami runs more iso stuff, and San Antonio screens and moves the ball more. And with James out, SA didn't have to expend as much energy on defense. You could see in the last 3 minutes that Miami was gassed. A lot of jumpers that came up short.
Quote from: MUfan12 on June 06, 2014, 08:39:08 AM
The LeBron talk is nauseating. That was a really good basketball game that is being overshadowed by a slew of hot sports takes.
I think the difference between the Spurs and Heat down the stretch was on the defensive end. Miami runs more iso stuff, and San Antonio screens and moves the ball more. And with James out, SA didn't have to expend as much energy on defense. You could see in the last 3 minutes that Miami was gassed. A lot of jumpers that came up short.
San Antonio's bench is much better than Miami's. Miami went out in the 3rd quarter, but Popovich was sitting a lot of stars for the fourth.
Miami got nothing out of Chalmers...nothing out of Cole...nothing out of Battier.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 06, 2014, 08:42:27 AM
San Antonio's bench is much better than Miami's. Miami went out in the 3rd quarter, but Popovich was sitting a lot of stars for the fourth.
Miami got nothing out of Chalmers...nothing out of Cole...nothing out of Battier.
And some people want him as a assistant coach.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 06, 2014, 08:35:16 AM
I know you are kidding, but these are the types of comments that many sports fans are just dopes.
So this is going to be the line. Lebron James is too much of a p*ssy to play through a cramp. He could have come back into a four point game in the NBA Finals, but he's not man enough to do so.
Ugh, it's nauseating. No one on the court moves as much mass with the velocity and power that James does. Plus, no Spurs players play as many minutes as James/Wade/Bosh do. I believe no one besides Parker even averaged more than 30 minutes a game this postseason or the regular season.
Quote from: PTM on June 06, 2014, 09:00:13 AM
And some people want him as a assistant coach.
Yep, all the more reason for him to hang 'em up and join Wojo's Warriors
Quote from: brandx on June 03, 2014, 10:10:15 PM
I said Lebron may be good enough to be considered one of the top 5 players of all time and I'm knocking him?
But as much as I hate the Bulls, Lebron is no MJ. Period. Not offensively and not defensively.
Lebron can play all 5 positions, something MJ could never do.
Heat look tired and disinterested. will be a crazy off-season i think.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 12, 2014, 10:46:15 PM
Lebron can play all 5 positions, something MJ could never do.
I'm not convinced he could play center. Magic could do it though.
Quote from: brandx on June 12, 2014, 11:05:40 PM
I'm not convinced he could play center. Magic could do it though.
You don't have to be convinced, he did it in the finals already in the last few years and successfully. He's had to play all 5 positions since 2011....done. No convincing needed, already done and done at a high level.
Seems like yall need to just look at my signature. Personally I'm a Jordan guy, but come on guys different eras, different rules, different training styles etc etc. Do we really think Lebron would look like a tank if he was playing in the 80s or 90s? Probs not. Durant to the older guys is a better comparison because he's built about the same.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 12, 2014, 11:26:48 PM
You don't have to be convinced, he did it in the finals already in the last few years and successfully. He's had to play all 5 positions since 2011....done. No convincing needed, already done and done at a high level.
Tonight he couldn't guard anyone on the floor and largely stood there watching people on defense.
For the second game in a row the Heat have played better with Lebron on the bench then they did with him in the game.
Heat were -21 with him on the floor.
Played the Spurs even with him off the floor.
Previous game, -21 with Lebron....+2 without.
Lebron is a great player, but I don't think he will ever crack the top 5 all time...right now he is a ways behind Duncan on the list. Even at Duncan's age he is outplaying Lebron considerably in this series.
He's already in the top 5. +/- is a completely unreliable statistic. Please stop using it.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on June 12, 2014, 11:50:15 PM
Seems like yall need to just look at my signature. Personally I'm a Jordan guy, but come on guys different eras, different rules, different training styles etc etc. Do we really think Lebron would look like a tank if he was playing in the 80s or 90s? Probs not. Durant to the older guys is a better comparison because he's built about the same.
The 80s and 90s were not the 70s. Go look at games from the 90s and tell me the players weren't built back then.
Quote from: forgetful on June 13, 2014, 01:22:04 AM
Lebron is a great player, but I don't think he will ever crack the top 5 all time...right now he is a ways behind Duncan on the list. Even at Duncan's age he is outplaying Lebron considerably in this series.
Yeah, I'd look for a new argument, because this is not one you are ever going to win. He's already in the top 5. Behind Duncan? Really? You completely invalidate your own argument with comments like that.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 07:43:24 AM
The 80s and 90s were not the 70s. Go look at games from the 90s and tell me the players weren't built back then.
Not saying they weren't built please don't take my words and think I'm referring to every player. What I'm saying is that you didn't have the same level of muscle mass that you see on a guy like Lebron the 90s guys were more defined. I know this isn't true for all people as there were the occasional guys that came out huge but they were considerably less than now.
Well you specifically said one player. I think Lebron would have looked very similar to what he is now.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 09:19:18 AM
Well you specifically said one player. I think Lebron would have looked very similar to what he is now.
The only guy I can think of who was built as big as Lebron was Karl Malone. I mean I was younger so I'm sure you can pull some random role player but I'm talking stars.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on June 13, 2014, 09:25:12 AM
The only guy I can think of who was built as big as Lebron was Karl Malone. I mean I was younger so I'm sure you can pull some random role player but I'm talking stars.
Well that's part of what makes Lebron unique. He pretty much is the same size as Malone, but has a much better game.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 12, 2014, 10:46:15 PM
Lebron can play all 5 positions, something MJ could never do.
MJ was also never almost 6'10, apples to oranges
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 09:33:26 AM
Well that's part of what makes Lebron unique. He pretty much is the same size as Malone, but has a much better game.
I agree that's why I respect him... don't like him or his attitude (but that's relative to most stars now days) but respect him for this era. My point though was even Malone while the same size wasn't nearly as perfectly conditioned. Would Lebron have been? I doubt it. He'd probably have been more meaty like Malone playing down low or a bit lankier and playing 2/3.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 13, 2014, 09:46:34 AM
MJ was also never almost 6'10, apples to oranges
Correct, but how many other 6'10 guys can do what LJ can? That body, that size, with that athleticism and skill.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2014, 10:13:46 AM
Correct, but how many other 6'10 guys can do what LJ can? That body, that size, with that athleticism and skill.
Magic Johnson. If Durant would hit the gym or some steroids (nobody freak out that's called sarcasm) he probs could to.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 13, 2014, 07:59:22 AM
Yeah, I'd look for a new argument, because this is not one you are ever going to win. He's already in the top 5. Behind Duncan? Really? You completely invalidate your own argument with comments like that.
Lets look at credentials after 10 years:
LeBron's Achievements (10 Years In): 2004 Rookie of the Year, 9x All-Star, 3x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 8x All-NBA, 4x All-Defense, 1x Scoring Champion, 1x NBA Champion
Duncan's Achievements (10 Years In): 1998 Rookie of the Year, 9x All-Star, 2x MVP, 3x Finals MVP, 10x All-NBA, 10x All-Defense, 3x NBA Champion
I'll take the guy that was all defense all 10 of his years and who in his first 10 years won 3-rings and 3-finals MVPs. I think people get mesmerized by Lebron's flashy play and forget there is a lot more to the game.
Right now if I was building a team with players in the NBA the first guy that I am going to put on my roster is Duncan.
Duncan and Lebron are both top five all time.
Quote from: forgetful on June 13, 2014, 10:27:19 AM
I think people get mesmerized by Lebron's flashy play and forget there is a lot more to the game.
Yikes! It is the non-flashy part of the game that separates him from the crowd, but you have to get over your bias to see it. I think people like you, see only the flashy parts and willingly ignore the rest.
Quote from: forgetful on June 13, 2014, 10:27:19 AM
Right now if I was building a team with players in the NBA the first guy that I am going to put on my roster is Duncan.
And that would pretty much make you the worst GM in the league.
Quote from: forgetful on June 13, 2014, 10:27:19 AM
Lets look at credentials after 10 years:
LeBron's Achievements (10 Years In): 2004 Rookie of the Year, 9x All-Star, 3x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 8x All-NBA, 4x All-Defense, 1x Scoring Champion, 1x NBA Champion
Duncan's Achievements (10 Years In): 1998 Rookie of the Year, 9x All-Star, 2x MVP, 3x Finals MVP, 10x All-NBA, 10x All-Defense, 3x NBA Champion
I'll take the guy that was all defense all 10 of his years and who in his first 10 years won 3-rings and 3-finals MVPs. I think people get mesmerized by Lebron's flashy play and forget there is a lot more to the game.
Right now if I was building a team with players in the NBA the first guy that I am going to put on my roster is Duncan.
Again, it matters from which you came. Duncan got to play with another all-timer in David Robinson. Lebron was stuck in Cleveland. Your teammates matter. Is it easier to play defense for Duncan when he has David Robinson right next to him on the court? Of course it is.
Compare Duncan's teammates through the years to James, especially the Cleveland version and it becomes laughable.
As for the top 5 arguments and such....impossible to ever know. Different eras, different styles, different rules, different officiating, different teammates. Put Joe Montana with the 1980's New Orleans Saints and we never hear about Joe Montana again. Put Charles Barkley with the Lakers and maybe he wins 5 titles instead of 0.
Quote from: forgetful on June 13, 2014, 10:27:19 AM
Right now if I was building a team with players in the NBA the first guy that I am going to put on my roster is Duncan.
To build a team? How many years do you think Duncan has left?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 13, 2014, 11:58:24 AM
Again, it matters from which you came. Duncan got to play with another all-timer in David Robinson. Lebron was stuck in Cleveland. Your teammates matter. Is it easier to play defense for Duncan when he has David Robinson right next to him on the court? Of course it is.
Compare Duncan's teammates through the years to James, especially the Cleveland version and it becomes laughable.
As for the top 5 arguments and such....impossible to ever know. Different eras, different styles, different rules, different officiating, different teammates. Put Joe Montana with the 1980's New Orleans Saints and we never hear about Joe Montana again. Put Charles Barkley with the Lakers and maybe he wins 5 titles instead of 0.
Duncan played with Robinson for 5 seasons and Robinson was injured for his rookie year so basically 4 (and 1998 was a lockout). In those 4 years they won 2 championships which is currently where LeBron sits with Wade and Bosh. I think comparring the two is actually very valid as their careers tend to match up pretty well together. I'll give you that the second half of Duncan's career with Parker and Ginobli is better than what LeBron had in Cleveland, but it's not like he was playing with high schoolers. Big Z, Mo Williams, Antwaon Jamison they were each allstars.
I really didn't like Duncan during the early, mid 2000s because I thought he was super boring and played "old man basketball" but I have grown to appreciate him and really enjoy what he does.
Quote from: swoopem on June 13, 2014, 12:13:46 PM
Duncan played with Robinson for 5 seasons and Robinson was injured for his rookie year so basically 4 (and 1998 was a lockout). In those 4 years they won 2 championships which is currently where LeBron sits with Wade and Bosh. I think comparring the two is actually very valid as their careers tend to match up pretty well together. I'll give you that the second half of Duncan's career with Parker and Ginobli is better than what LeBron had in Cleveland, but it's not like he was playing with high schoolers. Big Z, Mo Williams, Antwaon Jamison they were each allstars.
I really didn't like Duncan during the early, mid 2000s because I thought he was super boring and played "old man basketball" but I have grown to appreciate him and really enjoy what he does.
My point was comparing Duncan's accomplishments for 10 years straight up vs Lebron's...totally different teammates, etc. Too many people get into direct comparisons of players without looking who surrounded them.
The Spurs used to be my least favorite team. I couldn't stand Pop or Duncan. As they have aged and it has become more and more apparent that athletically they are not near the top of the NBA I have come to appreciate how they play the game, and they are now in my top 3 favorite teams. It is just fun to watch the clinics they put on teams on how to move around the court and move the basketball.
Here is why I can't stand LeBron. The Spurs make a run to go up 20 in game 4 of the NBA Finals and the absolute biggest celebration you see out of ANY of their players is a fist pump (Patty Mills after hitting the 3). I love it.
Put back dunk to go up 22? No reaction at all (Kawhi Leonard). Can you imagine what LeBron would've done if they were the 1s up 20 and he had a huge putback dunk? Scream in the camera and punch your own chest and stare down the guy defending you. You don't have to dislike this, this type of emotion may appeal to you, but there is absolutely no way you can deny that that is how LeBron would've reacted to the exact same play. I just don't care for that kind of "look at me" attitude and I love that the Spurs are all about business. LeBron's talent is undeniable. Absolutely a top 5 player ever. Absolutely not the best ever. But I just don't care for his personality. Just my personal taste.
Yes. Basketball should be reserved and dull. No room for celebrations. Act like you've completed a nice Power Point presentation.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 12:43:57 PM
Yes. Basketball should be reserved and dull. No room for celebrations. Act like you've completed a nice Power Point presentation.
With or without word art and the the effects on slides?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 13, 2014, 12:40:34 PM
The Spurs used to be my least favorite team. I couldn't stand Pop or Duncan. As they have aged and it has become more and more apparent that athletically they are not near the top of the NBA I have come to appreciate how they play the game, and they are now in my top 3 favorite teams. It is just fun to watch the clinics they put on teams on how to move around the court and move the basketball.
Here is why I can't stand LeBron. The Spurs make a run to go up 20 in game 4 of the NBA Finals and the absolute biggest celebration you see out of ANY of their players is a fist pump (Patty Mills after hitting the 3). I love it.
Put back dunk to go up 22? No reaction at all (Kawhi Leonard). Can you imagine what LeBron would've done if they were the 1s up 20 and he had a huge putback dunk? Scream in the camera and punch your own chest and stare down the guy defending you. You don't have to dislike this, this type of emotion may appeal to you, but there is absolutely no way you can deny that that is how LeBron would've reacted to the exact same play. I just don't care for that kind of "look at me" attitude and I love that the Spurs are all about business. LeBron's talent is undeniable. Absolutely a top 5 player ever. Absolutely not the best ever. But I just don't care for his personality. Just my personal taste.
What little I watch of the NBA I've certainly seen LeBron fist pump \ chest bump as you describe in some of those situations, but not always. We probably see what we want to see. If you go to youtube and watch his best plays, defined by who knows who, you can see some where he is very emotional and some where he is quite subdued and does nothing.
This series has showed everything that is wrong with the NBA. Isn't everyone tired of the constant pick n rolls? Are NBA coaches other than Pops too stupid to actually coach offensive basketball?
Passing wins games. A passed ball moves faster than a player with the ball can move. You can ALWAYS get good shots if you are a good passing team.
Quote from: brandx on June 13, 2014, 02:22:32 PM
This series has showed everything that is wrong with the NBA. Isn't everyone tired of the constant pick n rolls? Are NBA coaches other than Pops too stupid to actually coach offensive basketball?
Miami is the two time defending champion doing what they are doing.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 02:33:19 PM
Miami is the two time defending champion doing what they are doing.
You are correct - but, I was referring to why people get turned off by the NBA.
Some of the lowest rated Finals in NBA history are the ones the Spurs played in - including the lowest rated game of the past 25 years. (2003 Game 2) Some people are turned off by the NBA's offense. Many people don't care.
But this is a different Spurs team. The earlier teams had Duncan as the #1 scoring option and played very slow - among fewest offensive possessions per game.
This year's version - more running, more perimeter oriented. They are in the top 10 in the NBA this year in offensive possessions per game.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 12:43:57 PM
Yes. Basketball should be reserved and dull. No room for celebrations. Act like you've completed a nice Power Point presentation.
Just one man's opinion. I think I have enjoyed watching this Spurs team pass and move as one unit and not celebrate anything until they have actually won something more than I have ever enjoyed watching any other NBA team.
This will be the slowest paced Spurs championship team with the possible exception of 1999. (I can't find that stat.) They are more efficient.
Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed watching them play due to many of the reasons you suggest. But don't interpret your being tired of pick and roll offenses with everyone else being tired of it. Furthermore, it has worked just fine for Miami considering their track record.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 03:06:33 PM
This will be the slowest paced Spurs championship team with the possible exception of 1999. (I can't find that stat.) They are more efficient.
Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed watching them play due to many of the reasons you suggest. But don't interpret your being tired of pick and roll offenses with everyone else being tired of it. Furthermore, it has worked just fine for Miami considering their track record.
Wrong. This is one of the fastest playing teams of the Duncan era. Top 10 in the league this year. More offensive possessions per game than the run and gun Steve Nash led Suns teams a few years back.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=19YaWxng-CM
Don't worry LeBron, the Heat will just bring Carmelo in now that the people around you have slipped up a bit. He can carry you.
Quote from: brandx on June 13, 2014, 03:40:19 PM
Wrong. This is one of the fastest playing teams of the Duncan era. Top 10 in the league this year. More offensive possessions per game than the run and gun Steve Nash led Suns teams a few years back.
Unless I am misunderstanding Pace stats, you are wrong here. (And I admit, I could be completely misunderstanding the stat.)
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2014, 12:43:57 PM
Yes. Basketball should be reserved and dull. No room for celebrations. Act like you've completed a nice Power Point presentation.
Well, in the sandbox we would build killer power point decks then go out and blow sh1t up.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 15, 2014, 09:06:41 PM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=19YaWxng-CM
Don't worry LeBron, the Heat will just bring Carmelo in now that the people around you have slipped up a bit. He can carry you.
LeBron hasn't slipped at all.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 03, 2014, 11:21:24 AM
Spurs in 5, maybe 6.
(http://media3.giphy.com/media/mn1cym1jiJOUg/200.gif)
Quote from: forgetful on June 13, 2014, 10:27:19 AM
Lets look at credentials after 10 years:
LeBron's Achievements (10 Years In): 2004 Rookie of the Year, 9x All-Star, 3x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 8x All-NBA, 4x All-Defense, 1x Scoring Champion, 1x NBA Champion
Duncan's Achievements (10 Years In): 1998 Rookie of the Year, 9x All-Star, 2x MVP, 3x Finals MVP, 10x All-NBA, 10x All-Defense, 3x NBA Champion
I'll take the guy that was all defense all 10 of his years and who in his first 10 years won 3-rings and 3-finals MVPs. I think people get mesmerized by Lebron's flashy play and forget there is a lot more to the game.
Right now if I was building a team with players in the NBA the first guy that I am going to put on my roster is Duncan.
duncan over lebron, paul, or durant? Victim of the moment? You sound like a typical espn hack; all that matters is rings.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 15, 2014, 09:15:26 PM
Unless I am misunderstanding Pace stats, you are wrong here. (And I admit, I could be completely misunderstanding the stat.)
I don't know - maybe we are arguing different things. I am basing my argument on possessions per game. Spurs are top 10 in the NBA, even with the great defense that causes opposing team to take longer in their possessions.
Quote from: brandx on June 16, 2014, 12:49:12 AM
I don't know - maybe we are arguing different things. I am basing my argument on possessions per game. Spurs are top 10 in the NBA, even with the great defense that causes opposing team to take longer in their possessions.
In looking at NBA pace stats, San Antonio is indeed faster relative to the rest of the NBA this year than in years past. But their pace is slower overall.
But I might be wrong.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 15, 2014, 09:06:41 PM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=19YaWxng-CM
Don't worry LeBron, the Heat will just bring Carmelo in now that the people around you have slipped up a bit. He can carry you.
It appears in that in some small minds, LeBron has to single handedly win a championship, or he isn't any good.
It won't happen, but I would love to see LeBron opt out, but the rest of that team stay intact, and see if they could even get to .500 next year. Wade just cant do it anymore, and will never be anything more than an average basketball player again. Chris Bosh has turned into steve Novak, though he doesn't make as many shots (for the record, other than the contracts they signed, there never really was a big three - there was a big two and a distant, distant third guy, though he certainly filled a roll for the past few years).
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 15, 2014, 11:04:38 PM
(http://media3.giphy.com/media/mn1cym1jiJOUg/200.gif)
Whether dressed as a man or women no one pats himself/herself on the back like you.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on June 16, 2014, 10:17:31 AM
It appears in that in some small minds, LeBron has to single handedly win a championship, or he isn't any good.
It won't happen, but I would love to see LeBron opt out, but the rest of that team stay intact, and see if they could even get to .500 next year. Wade just cant do it anymore, and will never be anything more than an average basketball player again. Chris Bosh has turned into steve Novak, though he doesn't make as many shots (for the record, other than the contracts they signed, there never really was a big three - there was a big two and a distant, distant third guy, though he certainly filled a roll for the past few years).
Haha. Talk about small minds. Average basketball player? 19 ppg, 4.7 apg, 4.5 rpg, and 1.5 spg on 54.5% shooting is an average basketball player? Wow. Talk about setting a high bar. Chris Bosh turned into Steve Novak, but made less shots? Steve averaged more than 16.2 ppg this year? News to me. Didn't know he rebounded well enough to get 6.6 rpg, and blocked 1.0 shots per game this year too. How many teams have guys who have those numbers from their #2 and 3 players? The Spurs do, but they don't have one superstar. The Thunder have Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka. Clippers? Warriors? Houston? They all have 2 stars, but not a 3rd. There aren't many team whose 3rd best player averages 16 ppg and almost 7 rpg. When you have the best player in the world, you with those 2 around him, plus the best shooter ever, you probably shouldn't get blown out in 4 out of 5 NBA Finals games.
Here's the thing with LeBron. How many times has an NBA MVP left his team in order to join another top 5 player in the league because he isn't winning enough where he is? Not to mention, they also bring in a 3rd top 10-15 player (this is all at the time, obviously). Has it ever happened? I don't know, I'm not that old, but in my lifetime it sure hasn't happened. Jordan certainly didn't when he couldn't get passed the Pistons. Kobe certainly didn't. Wade didn't. Duncan didn't. Guys who are considered the best players of their generations, they don't do that. But LeBron doesn't. And now the Heat look like they are going downhill, so they have to look to sign another max contract guy.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 16, 2014, 11:13:29 AM
Whether dressed as a man or women no one pats himself/herself on the back like you.
Never realized it, but Chicos may be our transgender representative on scoop ;D