SEC ponders 'Division IV'
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11008001/sec-ponders-potential-move-division-iv-ncaa-provide-autonomy
DESTIN, Fla. -- The Southeastern Conference sent a strong message to the NCAA on Friday: provide the Power Five some autonomy or they'll form their own division.
SEC Commissioner Mike Slive said if the Power Five conferences -- which also include the Atlantic Coast Conference, the Big 12, the Big Ten and the Pac-12 -- don't get the flexibility needed to create their own bylaws, the next step would be to move to "Division IV."
"It's not something we want to do," Slive said on the final day of the SEC meetings. "We want the ability to have autonomy in areas that has a nexus to the well-being of student athletes. I am somewhat optimistic it will pass, but if it doesn't, our league would certainly want to move to a Division IV. My colleagues, I can't speak for anybody else, but I'd be surprised if they didn't feel the same.
Moving to Division IV would keep the Power Five under the NCAA umbrella while granting college football's biggest money makers the kind of power to better take care of student-athletes. The SEC, for example, would like to pay full cost of college attendance, provide long-term medical coverage and offer incentives to kids who return to school and complete degrees.
Smaller Division I schools likely can't afford the changes the major conferences are seeking. And while Division II and Division III have their own rules, forming a Division IV would seemingly create a wider divide between the Power Five and other smaller schools.
Slive, however, said a potential move wouldn't disrupt championship formats, including the NCAA men's basketball tournament.
"I've been so optimistic that we're going to stay in Division I that we haven't sat down and tried to map it out," Slive said. "But we know that failure to create what we're trying to create would result in doing something different. How we would construct a Division IV? We haven't looked in that.
"We hope everyone realizes we are moving into a new era and this is the way to retain your collegiate model. It would be a disappointment, and in my view a mistake, not to adapt the model. This is a historic moment. If we don't seize the moment, we'll make a mistake."
University of Florida President Bernie Machen wasn't nearly as confident about staying in Division I.
"We're in a squeeze here," Machen said. "There are now six lawsuits that name our conference in them that specifically have to do with the whole cost of attendance and stuff like that. We would like to make changes, but we can't because the NCAA doesn't allow us to. We're really caught between a rock and a hard play. We desperately would like some flexibility."
Southern Mississippi athletic director Bill McGillis believes the major conferences will get that flexibility and that a Division IV won't be needed.
He said more autonomy for the high-resource leagues is just "the reality of the situation" and that schools like Southern Miss in Conference USA agree with many of the proposed changes. McGillis expects schools from all Division I conferences will have a say in the process and will adjust to whatever is decided.
"I think the system will work and that the schools outside the high-resource five conferences that are committed to competing at a high level will still be able to do that," McGillis said.
The SEC wants the NCAA steering committee to adopt its proposal for the voting threshold, which would allow the Big Five to pass legislation with more ease. The NCAA board of directors will vote on the steering committee's proposal in August.
Currently, the NCAA requires a two-thirds vote of the 65 schools and 15 student representatives as well as four out of five conferences.
"What we fear is that nothing will change because the threshold is so high," Machen said. "We're asking them to lower the threshold, which we propose is 60 percent and three conferences. With three conferences out of five and 60 percent of the 65 and 15, you can make those kinds of changes."
Still, Machen has his doubt it will pass.
"This is the NCAA we're dealing with," he said.
And Machen envisions rough waters ahead if things don't change.
"The whole thing could go up in smoke if the lawsuits come down or with the unionization rule," he said. "So the whole intercollegiate model is at risk if we don't do something. If they don't want to do this, it seems to me it's incumbent upon them to come up with something else that will help us get out us this box."
D4 would help Marquette. It wouldn't effect any sport besides football. Realignment could be seen with teams creating more local conferences with the "D1" league. And football teams in a one. Could create TV contracts for football only. Then other sports only.
I hate college football. The NCAA needs to sack up do something about these football schools.
Quote from: Heisenberg on May 30, 2014, 10:58:01 PM
SEC ponders 'Division IV'
Still, Machen has his doubt it will pass.
"This is the NCAA we're dealing with," he said.
And Machen envisions rough waters ahead if things don't change.
"The whole thing could go up in smoke if the lawsuits come down or with the unionization rule," he said. "So the whole intercollegiate model is at risk if we don't do something. If they don't want to do this, it seems to me it's incumbent upon them to come up with something else that will help us get out us this box."
Machen is right on. The football schools already have so much influence over what happens in the college athletic landscape, they should get more autonomy. I'd like to hear some more details about some of these reforms, but Machen is correct that action is needed, and it probably needs to be significant. I don't see this hurting MU if it did, although, again, the details aren't crystal clear.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on May 30, 2014, 11:58:55 PM
Machen is right on. The football schools already have so much influence over what happens in the college athletic landscape, they should get more autonomy. I'd like to hear some more details about some of these reforms, but Machen is correct that action is needed, and it probably needs to be significant. I don't see this hurting MU if it did, although, again, the details aren't crystal clear.
Basically they want to institute everything northwestern's union vote wanted. It's more evidence the union movement essentially won.
Quote from: marquette20 on May 30, 2014, 11:04:37 PM
D4 would help Marquette. It wouldn't effect any sport besides football. Realignment could be seen with teams creating more local conferences with the "D1" league. And football teams in a one. Could create TV contracts for football only. Then other sports only.
The scholarships, medical insurance, etc. would be for all sports. Marquette, and the rest of the BE, would have to suck it up to compete.
Quote from: chitownwarrior2011 on May 30, 2014, 11:48:03 PM
I hate college football. The NCAA needs to sack up do something about these football schools.
What exactly can they do? The NCAA is a membership organization. As an ultimate move, the Power 5 can just get up and leave the NCAA and do their own thing.
The NCAA can't really do anything about it.
Quote from: chitownwarrior2011 on May 30, 2014, 11:48:03 PM
I hate college football. The NCAA needs to sack up do something about these football schools.
Because the student athletes that are earning billions, yes billions, for these 65 schools don't deserve to receive the full cost of attending school? Even when they have no other route to a professional football career because these schools have become the minor league for the NFL?
Yeah from the Power 5's perspective, I see why they are doing this. They are getting out in front of the student-athlete compensation issue and have the money to do so. I really don't see the problem here.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on May 31, 2014, 08:01:36 AM
Yeah from the Power 5's perspective, I see why they are doing this. They are getting out in front of the student-athlete compensation issue and have the money to do so. I really don't see the problem here.
Silvie almost sounds desperate in the article. Change is coming to BCS football at the very least and maybe all (most) sports at BCS schools. They'd be beyond stupid to not want to get out in front of this and control it. If they let the changes come ad hoc from lawsuits and union negotiations, they will not like the changes and they know it.
Quote from: chitownwarrior2011 on May 30, 2014, 11:48:03 PM
I hate college football. The NCAA needs to sack up do something about these football schools.
Why? What are they doing that bothers you?
Quote from: Heisenberg on May 31, 2014, 06:00:16 AM
Basically they want to institute everything northwestern's union vote wanted. It's more evidence the union movement essentially won.
Northwestern's union vote wanted....the one where the actual athletes voted it down...that one?
The Power 5 have been asking for this stuff for the last several years.....let's not combine the two because you predicted the Union vote was going to win and it didn't.
This is all ESPN's fault. They're the ones coughing up the money and realigning the conferences behind the scenes. Hate them.
Quote from: Heavy Gear on May 31, 2014, 01:35:24 PM
This is all ESPN's fault. They're the ones coughing up the money and realigning the conferences behind the scenes. Hate them.
That isn't accurate either.
Quote from: Heavy Gear on May 31, 2014, 01:35:24 PM
This is all ESPN's fault. They're the ones coughing up the money and realigning the conferences behind the scenes. Hate them.
ESPN has a role but they are not the puppetmaster that some make them out to be. Honestly, this is all just the natural progression of capitalism.
I know it doesn't matter, but I'm not watching college football anymore. My own personal boycott. I'm so pissed off that $$$ is the only thing that matters in sports. The tradition and nostalgia is gone for me in large part. All the old conferences barely resemble their former selves. I hate Wisconsin football and basketball. I hate the B1G network and ESPN because I mostly blame them for all this garbage. I hate that the Big East isn't what it once was. In other words I am a little bitter.
Quote from: muhoopsfan6@yahoo.com on May 31, 2014, 03:29:10 PM
I know it doesn't matter, but I'm not watching college football anymore. My own personal boycott. I'm so pissed off that $$$ is the only thing that matters in sports. The tradition and nostalgia is gone for me in large part. All the old conferences barely resemble their former selves. I hate Wisconsin football and basketball. I hate the B1G network and ESPN because I mostly blame them for all this garbage. I hate that the Big East isn't what it once was. In other words I am a little bitter.
So which conference would you like MU to go back to? CUSA?
Maybe schools like GU and Nova would like to go back to the pre-2003 version of the BE....or maybe the 79 version.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 31, 2014, 12:24:11 PM
Northwestern's union vote wanted....the one where the actual athletes voted it down...that one?
The Power 5 have been asking for this stuff for the last several years.....let's not combine the two because you predicted the Union vote was going to win and it didn't.
They are going to get what they wanted without the messiness of a union. That's the definition of a win.
And don't give me that bull about the power 5 wanted this for years,it took the union movement to make it happen.
The Power 5 was talking about doing this long before the entire Northwestern unionization effort.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on May 31, 2014, 08:49:09 PM
The Power 5 was talking about doing this long before the entire Northwestern unionization effort.
Talk yes, action no. Then the union movement popped up and now, all of a sudden, the endless talk has turned into urgency and a "D4" if necessary to get it done.
Coincidence?
Quote from: Heisenberg on June 01, 2014, 09:34:10 AM
Talk yes, action no. Then the union movement popped up and now, all of a sudden, the endless talk has turned into urgency and a "D4" if necessary to get it done.
Coincidence?
Yes. I don't know why an unsuccessful unionization vote would prompt action. The P5 have been setting up for this for awhile.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 09:56:59 AM
Yes. I don't know why an unsuccessful unionization vote would prompt action. The P5 have been setting up for this for awhile.
Because NU was the first of many schools to try. Supposedly Georgia Tech would be next.
The tide changed and the P5 got the message to stop talking and start acting.
nm
Quote from: muhoopsfan6@yahoo.com on May 31, 2014, 03:29:10 PM
I know it doesn't matter, but I'm not watching college football anymore. My own personal boycott. I'm so pissed off that $$$ is the only thing that matters in sports. The tradition and nostalgia is gone for me in large part. All the old conferences barely resemble their former selves. I hate Wisconsin football and basketball. I hate the B1G network and ESPN because I mostly blame them for all this garbage. I hate that the Big East isn't what it once was. In other words I am a little bitter.
The Big Ten Network is majority-owned by the same company that the Big East has a TV deal with
Quote from: breadtree on June 01, 2014, 04:00:36 PM
The Big Ten Network is majority-owned by the same company that the Big East has a TV deal with
And that company could well wrest any TV rights from ESPN in the near future.