Indonesia
Kazakhstan
Oman
Pakistan
Palau
Sri Lanka
United States
Discuss
Thought it was stupid for years. 19 is a good number.
Having a law on the books and actually enforcing it are two different things. In Indonesia the only barrier to getting served is cash in hand.
My favorite distribution channel for alcohol is vending machines. In Japan, one can purchase beer (including draft!), scotch, sake on the street in vending machines. Of course, one can get anything in a vending machine in Japan - batteries, live fish, hot meals, used school girl panties for sniffing, new underwear for wearing, smut mags, and of course smokes.
(http://www.notsorry.com/photos/gm_02036.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_4-YllXaojc/T6I4SiPLg7I/AAAAAAAAy94/Gv9y6KUe7zY/s1600/Used_schoolgirl_panties_vending_machine.jpg)
(http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/cigs.jpg)
(http://haznos.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/japann_11.jpg)
(http://www.daninjapan.com/1.15/beer_vend.jpg)
(http://static.flickr.com/159/433684765_7243dbf61a_d.jpg)
(http://blog.hostelbookers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/A-food-vending-machine-in-Tokyo.jpeg)
http://www.chasethegray.com/2010_04_01_archive.html
"Sub-Marine Catcher"
Quote from: tower912 on May 22, 2014, 10:56:15 AM
Thought it was stupid for years. 19 is a good number.
I'm in agreement with tower here.
18 keeps it (legally) out of high school for the most part.
I think 19 is what it is in Canada.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 22, 2014, 11:33:59 AM
I'm in agreement with tower here.
18 keeps it (legally) out of high school for the most part.
I think 19 is what it is in Canada.
It's 19 in BC. This weekend the bars in Van will be full of Americans under 21.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 22, 2014, 11:33:59 AM
I think 19 is what it is in Canada.
Alberta, Manitoba, and Quebec are 18 - all other provinces 19.
Quote from: keefe on May 22, 2014, 11:45:30 AM
It's 19 in BC. This weekend the bars in Van will be full of Americans under 21.
The ideal situation is for just some states to be 18 and others 21. When WI used to be 18, all the chicks in northern Illinois (21 year old drinking age) came to the bars in Kenosha to drink. Women always outnumbered guys in the good bars.
Quote from: ttheisen on May 22, 2014, 11:47:32 AM
Alberta, Manitoba, and Quebec are 18 - all other provinces 19.
Vive Quebec!
If you are an adult at 18, you should be able to drink at 18.
"Keeping it out of the high schools" is more a parental issue than a legal one.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 22, 2014, 11:33:59 AM
I'm in agreement with tower here.
18 keeps it (legally) out of high school for the most part.
I think 19 is what it is in Canada.
As others have said it most definitely is 19 in the great white north. Growing up outside Detroit I used to go to Windsor all the time to indulge
Beer and wine at 18. It'd teach people how to drink and raise tolerance but not promoting young people taking shots left and right.
If you can fight in a war, you are old enough to legally buy a beer to forget what it is you saw.
Europe has it right in this case, make it legal and let parents handle the education while also strictly enforcing laws with real consequences if you don't abide by the social contract.
Sure I partied a ton under age in college, but I was always responsible because alcohol wasn't this magical force that my parents kept from me. I was allowed to try drinks and understand the impacts as an underager. And my mother is practically a teetotaler.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on May 22, 2014, 12:09:32 PM
If you are an adult at 18, you should be able to drink at 18.
"Keeping it out of the high schools" is more a parental issue than a legal one.
+1 The fact that you are responsible enough to sign a 3, 5, 7 year car loan at 18 but not buy a six pack is asinine. If society restricted a privilege from everyone in any other age group over legal adulthood we would all be outraged.
Thank Herby, if I remember he was the deciding vote on the highway bill that forced the states to raise the age to twenty one.
Quote from: PBRme on May 22, 2014, 02:18:02 PM
Thank Herby, if I remember he was the deciding vote on the highway bill that forced the states to raise the age to twenty one.
Well, if he was from a state with a significant business presence in spirits and alcohol then he probably would have voted to preserve those interests since jobs are important.
I could get behind 19.
18 and you will have drunk kids walking into high school after lunch break.
I think differentiating between hard liquor and beer and wine is dumb. I did some of the dumbest drunk things ever when I was in college drinking nothing but Old Milwaukee.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on May 22, 2014, 03:55:32 PM
I could get behind 19.
18 and you will have drunk kids walking into high school after lunch break.
I think differentiating between hard liquor and beer and wine is dumb. I did some of the dumbest drunk things ever when I was in college drinking nothing but Old Milwaukee.
You should have stayed with the premiums like Red, White, and Blue, Hamms, and Blatz.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on May 22, 2014, 03:55:32 PM
I could get behind 19.
18 and you will have drunk kids walking into high school after lunch break.
That's where I disagree with you.
A) that happens now
2) Just because something is not prohibited by law doesn't mean an institution has to allow it(see carrying a gun) III) We need to stop using the law as a morality test and make it about what is good for the collective good.
Leave morals to individuals and societal shame, let laws mandate behavior we want to impose on all to ensure that society can coexist.
Quote from: Boozemon Barro on May 22, 2014, 10:17:31 AM
Indonesia
Kazakhstan
Oman
Pakistan
Palau
Sri Lanka
United States
Discuss
I bet this group would be fun at parties.
We've gone down this path a couple of times:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=39855.0
21 is absurd.
Quote from: mu03eng on May 22, 2014, 04:13:15 PM
That's where I disagree with you.
A) that happens now
2) Just because something is not prohibited by law doesn't mean an institution has to allow it(see carrying a gun) III) We need to stop using the law as a morality test and make it about what is good for the collective good.
Leave morals to individuals and societal shame, let laws mandate behavior we want to impose on all to ensure that society can coexist.
Its not about using the law as a morality test.
Its simply using it as a way to improve educational instruction, remove distracting incidents from schools, and make sure that students aren't legally acquiring alcohol and bringing into school. It has nothing to do with morals. Its about the quality of education.
And "It happens now" is a terrible argument. People are using heroine now, should we make it legal?
I'm all for 19.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on May 22, 2014, 04:57:35 PM
Its not about using the law as a morality test.
Its simply using it as a way to improve educational instruction, remove distracting incidents from schools, and make sure that students aren't legally acquiring alcohol and bringing into school. It has nothing to do with morals. Its about the quality of education.
And "It happens now" is a terrible argument. People are using heroine now, should we make it legal?
I'm all for 19.
High schools can still make it so alcohol is not allowed on school grounds as well as intoxicated students.
Quote from: Boozemon Barro on May 22, 2014, 10:17:31 AM
Pakistan
One of the most exquisite places on this earth is Ladakh and Baltistan. I joined some friends for an expedition to Nanga Parbat but only went to the base camp as that peak, frankly, is beyond my skill level. three of us ended up trekking into Ladakh and were astounded by the immense beauty of the land and the people.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 22, 2014, 11:31:46 AM
"Sub-Marine Catcher"
They have vending machines with crabs, prawns, lobsters, and fish. People put their money in and grab these creatures which they then take home in a plastic bag.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on May 22, 2014, 04:57:35 PM
Its not about using the law as a morality test.
Its simply using it as a way to improve educational instruction, remove distracting incidents from schools, and make sure that students aren't legally acquiring alcohol and bringing into school. It has nothing to do with morals. Its about the quality of education.
And "It happens now" is a terrible argument. People are using heroine now, should we make it legal?
I'm all for 19.
You misunderstand my point....it happens now isn't an argument for why we should do it but as a refutement to your statement that a law needs to be created to prevent it in schools.
There are a lot of things that are currently legal but not allowed schools....why would alcohol be any different? Aren't cigarettes legal at 18 but they aren't allowed in school, how is that different?
Any state could change their minimum legal drinking age to below 21, but above 18 but they would lose 10% of all federal highway construction funds.
In the state of Wisconsin, the WisDOT budget was $7bn, Federal funds account for $1.6bn
Also, many Wisconsin bars will serve underage drinkers if their parents are present. and in 2008 a state Rep from NW Wisconsin introduced a bill to change the legal drinking age to 18 for Military personnel
Quote from: Ari Gold on May 22, 2014, 08:38:26 PM
Any state could change their minimum legal drinking age to below 21, but above 18 but they would lose 10% of all federal highway construction funds.
In the state of Wisconsin, the WisDOT budget was $7bn, Federal funds account for $1.6bn
Also, many Wisconsin bars will serve underage drinkers if their parents are present. and in 2008 a state Rep from NW Wisconsin introduced a bill to change the legal drinking age to 18 for Military personnel
Airmen, Squids, Marines, and Joes can get served in overseas facilities at 18 if the local laws allow that. Any Swinging Richard serving his country should be able to buy a beer on base in CONUS.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on May 22, 2014, 12:45:38 PM
Beer and wine at 18. It'd teach people how to drink and raise tolerance but not promoting young people taking shots left and right.
Considering you already posited this thought in the other drinking thread (linked by Sir Lawrence) I figured I'd just copy and paste my thoughts:
Under this, you'd still be dealing with the allure of something you can't have. After six months of drinking beer, a 19 year-old will want liquor. Plus, your tolerance isn't necessarily built across all platforms so the idea of "starting" with beers or wines and graduating to liquors as a form of cautious exposure wouldn't work for most teenagers.
You have to take the mystique out of it all for it to be handled appropriately. American society isn't built to handle this issue intelligently.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on May 27, 2014, 08:55:17 AM
American society isn't built to handle this issue intelligently.
Thank you, Madison Avenue.
I re-read an excellent biography of Hirohito over the weekend and one of the most intriguing observations is that Hirohito's rehabilitation from reviled, blood-thirsty, war mongering savage to a vapid, malleable academic who had been manipulated by the military could only have been engineered by the Americans.
While the Churchill and Attlee Attlee sought Hirohito's trial as a war criminal MacArthur understood that a cornerstone of rebuilding a pro-west capitalist Japan required the continuation of the Imperial institution, albeit in a much more benign form. To recast Hirohito's role and image MacArthur brought in execs from McCann, BBDO, Leo, and Y&R who transformed Hirohito into the docile, poem writing, marine-biologist whose intellectualism and sensitivity was essential to guide the Japanese people into a liberal democratic future.