http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24548616/a-senior-year-doesnt-help-most-real-nba-prospects-the-way-some-suggest
Maybe not.
He identifies those that are borderline 1st round picks and sure fire second round picks in his article.
Problem with Vander, he was a borderline 2nd round pick and wasn't drafted at all Doesn't seem like apples to apples comparison.
I'm going to give Vander credit for knowing what a nutjob Buzz was and he got out while he could.
At the end of the day I think he did the right thing by leaving. He gained valuable experience this year and had a cup of coffee in the league. His future is bright. I don't think he hurt himself by leaving but other than developing a bit more name recognition he would not have gained much by staying. The risk that I saw was that he may have found himself in a Todd Mayo like academic problem and then he would have wasted the senior year. From the standpoint of the team obviously he would have really helped us and I would have preferred that he stayed. He did what was right for him though.
At the time he announced I thought Vander was nuts. Now, not so much. We know things were pretty disfunctional last year (more so every week). Hard to see now how Vander's draft position would have improved. Hope he can catch on to a team in the league this fall.
Vander got a 10 day contract this year. I think that validates his decision. It is hard to say his draft stock would have been high enough for guaranteed money this year (especially how the year played out). I hope he works his way onto a roster in the next couple years. MU hasn't had this situation very often, and I feel a bit bad for how negatively I responded to his decision.
Quote from: 314warrior on May 05, 2014, 11:35:35 AM
Vander got a 10 day contract this year. I think that validates his decision.
Right, because a lot of college players leave early in hopes of getting a 10 day contract.
I'm not sure another year in college would have helped much in the long run, but he had to have been hoping for more out of this year than what he got. It's a different situation if you are talking about players like McDermott, Smart, or McGary, all of whom probably should have come out last year. Vander was fringe player who would have had a monster senior year at MU instead of toiling in professional obscurity.
May not have helped Vander. Could have helped the Warriors?
Quote from: frozena pizza on May 05, 2014, 03:37:39 PM
Right, because a lot of college players leave early in hopes of getting a 10 day contract.
I'm not sure another year in college would have helped much in the long run, but he had to have been hoping for more out of this year than what he got. It's a different situation if you are talking about players like McDermott, Smart, or McGary, all of whom probably should have come out last year. Vander was fringe player who would have had a monster senior year at MU instead of toiling in professional obscurity.
Do you think McDermott's stock suffered by staying an extra year?
Quote from: frozena pizza on May 05, 2014, 03:37:39 PM
Right, because a lot of college players leave early in hopes of getting a 10 day contract.
I'm not sure another year in college would have helped much in the long run, but he had to have been hoping for more out of this year than what he got. It's a different situation if you are talking about players like McDermott, Smart, or McGary, all of whom probably should have come out last year. Vander was fringe player who would have had a monster senior year at MU instead of toiling in professional obscurity.
He got a chance to make it on an NBA roster. I think most of us doubted he'd see that this year.
Quote from: 314warrior on May 05, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
He got a chance to make it on an NBA roster. I think most of us doubted he'd see that this year.
Most thought he would go undrafted and play in Europe or the D-League. Well, al three things happened along with that 10 day cup of coffee. In the end it was his choice coming off an Elite 8 and the prospect of the old BE gone and no ESPN. Hard to question his decision. Think, at this point, he should look for a good paying spot in Europe. Languishing in the D-League is not very financially rewarding.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 05, 2014, 04:10:35 PM
Do you think McDermott's stock suffered by staying an extra year?
No, I didn't say that. I'm just saying that if you are projected as a lottery pick it's a different analysis. You have a lot more to lose and less to gain by staying.
Quote from: 314warrior on May 05, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
He got a chance to make it on an NBA roster. I think most of us doubted he'd see that this year.
So that validates his decision? From a purely basketball perspective, it's hard for me to see how leaving college early for the NBA is a smart decision for someone who doesn't get drafted. Aside from an injury or some other major event, I can't imagine how he could have been worse off sticking around for his senior season and he could have worked his way into the second round.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 04, 2014, 03:15:19 PM
I'm going to give Vander credit for knowing what a nutjob Buzz was and he got out while he could.
Still really chaps my hide that Tom Crean brought Buzz Williams to Marquette.
Quote from: frozena pizza on May 05, 2014, 04:42:53 PM
So that validates his decision? From a purely basketball perspective, it's hard for me to see how leaving college early for the NBA is a smart decision for someone who doesn't get drafted. Aside from an injury or some other major event, I can't imagine how he could have been worse off sticking around for his senior season and he could have worked his way into the second round.
Well, what if that person didn't like college? He's earning a paycheck now regardless where he's playing, which is more than he could say if he was still at MU. Also, you're assuming he would have been able to improve his stock. But that's an unknown variable at the time. I think, based on what I know of Vander as a player and person, he made the right decision regardless if he got drafted or not.
Quote from: frozena pizza on May 05, 2014, 04:42:53 PM
So that validates his decision? From a purely basketball perspective, it's hard for me to see how leaving college early for the NBA is a smart decision for someone who doesn't get drafted. Aside from an injury or some other major event, I can't imagine how he could have been worse off sticking around for his senior season and he could have worked his way into the second round.
Well, Vander is probably going to get an invitation to a camp this year from a team that is looking at him for a specific role.
If he plays well, he's got a decent chance to earn a roster spot.
That's pretty much the same as being a second round pick, and he got paid to play ball this past year.
I'm not saying that it was definitely the right move to come out, but I personally don't think he could have played his way into the 1st round with an extra year.
Quote from: jesmu84 on May 05, 2014, 04:52:05 PM
Well, what if that person didn't like college? He's earning a paycheck now regardless where he's playing, which is more than he could say if he was still at MU. Also, you're assuming he would have been able to improve his stock. But that's an unknown variable at the time. I think, based on what I know of Vander as a player and person, he made the right decision regardless if he got drafted or not.
Read my post. I did say "from a purely basketball perspective". Sure, if he hated his situation so much you could say he made the right decision even if he ended up homeless. I also didn't assume he would have improved, I said he "could have" and it's pretty doubtful he would have ended up worse off.
Call me old fashioned but I thought a degree was a reasonable backup plan to not making it big time in NBA etc?
Quote from: Class71 on May 05, 2014, 05:05:01 PM
Call me old fashioned but I thought a degree was a reasonable backup plan to not making it big time in NBA etc?
Me too, however, if you look at it more closely, your playing years and earning potential are a limited commodity. In theory, you can always go back to school.
You should maximize your time spent earning, and then worry about school.
However, in real life, we know handing an uneducated 19yr old millions of dollars often doesn't end well, so there is something to maturing in school and those are also years you can't recapture.
Quote from: Class71 on May 05, 2014, 05:05:01 PM
Call me old fashioned but I thought a degree was a reasonable backup plan to not making it big time in NBA etc?
You're old fashioned.
Vander made the right decision....after how poor he was his first couple of years....he potentially could have run the risk of regression as a senior....and how he finished as a junior...his stock was as high as he could hope for given all that his career had been up to that point. Combine that with losing Junior to play alongside...who helped Vander be effective in our transition game...and Vander in his mid-range game...through Junior needing to be guarded all over the floor - think some regression was entirely possible for Vander as a senior.
And, basketball is his dream...not sitting in a classroom at Johnston Hall...and his chances at earning a good living are far greater from his near world class basketball talent, than what they would be as a typical graduate from the College of Communication.
Quote from: frozena pizza on May 05, 2014, 04:57:42 PM
Read my post. I did say "from a purely basketball perspective". Sure, if he hated his situation so much you could say he made the right decision even if he ended up homeless. I also didn't assume he would have improved, I said he "could have" and it's pretty doubtful he would have ended up worse off.
Depends how you define from a pure basketball perspective. If you mean becoming the most impactful player on your team you would be right.
As for becoming a better all around player, he made the right decision. He spent the past year focusing on being a pro player, playing against pro players, and coached by pro coaches. I don't know why players magically develop in college against inferior competition and worst coaches.
Despite wanting Vander to play his senior year, he made the right decision. This year's draft is deep according to all of the analysts. Blue would have had to have a lights out senior season to be picked in the upcoming draft. I'm not sureWith not being drafted, Blue has the opportunity to be exempt from a rookie contract - just like Wes Matthews was. Matthews, after his first season, became the highest paid player of his draft class. You have to wonder if the Madison Memorial/Marquette connection between the two played a role in the decision. Was Matthews contract an inspiration to Blue? Just remember, if Vander makes a roster and gets a multiyear deal this year or next year, he most likely makes more money than a rookie contract. Granted, it's a risk, but Matthews made boku dollars.
Last year Blue pulled in around 80k with a NBA D league contract of 55k and the 10 day contract from the Celtics for 28k. Not bad for a 21 year old. He can always go to Europe and play for approx. 60k - 100k untaxed. Right now, Blue is 80k ahead of the game.
Not only is the upcoming talent pool deep, apparently last year's sucked:
http://regressing.deadspin.com/nba-rookies-were-historically-bad-this-year-1572068663/+kylenw
Quote from: warriorchick on May 05, 2014, 06:37:17 PM
Not only is the upcoming talent pool, apparently last year's sucked:
http://regressing.deadspin.com/nba-rookies-were-historically-bad-this-year-1572068663/+kylenw
Considering that most NBA redraft websites have Giannis Antetkuompo being picked 1 or 2, you can tell that last year's rookie class was pretty lackluster/green. Blue probably had a better chance of being picked in this draft class vs. the upcoming.
Also, the question everyone has to ask is..... did anyone think he was NBA material, potentially? Blue always had the athleticism, but I never thought his shot was good enough for the NBA. If anything, I thought if he could become a lockdown defender, then he'd have a shot in the league.
Quote from: frozena pizza on May 05, 2014, 04:37:52 PM
No, I didn't say that. I'm just saying that if you are projected as a lottery pick it's a different analysis. You have a lot more to lose and less to gain by staying.
Merely asking the question, thanks