MUScoop

Make your case.   

I voted for Crean (although probably unpopular) in that he really elevated Marquette to a level of success not seen since Al.  The case could be made that he rode the success of Wade to the Final Four (and his high status), but his reach was bigger than that.  He took us to consistent winning, year-in and year-out, which Buzz then took over from and built upon. 

I would also say that Crean's big get, in addition to Wade, was getting James, McNeal and Matthews in the same class.  That really started a boom in recruiting that allowed us to get Lazar, and, eventually via Buzz, Vander, Taylor, Johnson, Du. Wilson, etc. 

Kevin O'Neill

He took over a train wreck that was on its way to becoming mid-major, and got us to the Sweet Sixteen.  MU's financial commitment to men's hoops was still small - pretty sure he took a huge bump to go to UT - and the facilities were awful.  If KO hadn't come long, we would all be looking forward to our annual rivalry game against...Loyola.

TC and Buzz are both worthy of consideration - TC took us the furthest and Buzz had the longest run of getting us to the second weekend - but neither would have even considered MU if it hadn't been for KO.

I didn't vote, seriously.


I'll also be interested to see if votes change over the next month(s) and year

All these Brent slurpers..I voted Tom Crean

I think it's Buzz by a fairly significant margin. I understand the arguments for O'Neill and Crean, but nobody had a better sustained run of success than Buzz. He kept the program relevant throughout our run in the Big East by proving that MU could compete consistently in the Big East, not only on the court but in recruiting.

Full disclosure: I became an MU fan during the Deane era.

All of you that voted Brent are still in your feelings about Tom Crean leaving. GET OVER IT. Tom Crean elevated a hopeless Marquette program and reached the FINAL FOUR!!!!

Quote from: WadeATKBurton on April 14, 2014, 04:14:21 PM
All of you that voted Brent are still in your feelings about Tom Crean leaving. GET OVER IT. Tom Crean elevated a hopeless Marquette program and reached the FINAL FOUR!!!!

Funny, I would bet that many who would vote for Crean still have hurt feelings about Buzz. I also think many would take issue with your hopeless program comment.

Buzz did a better job of sustaining success.  Crean did a nice job of building the foundation, Buzz kept it going.  I hope we do this survey again in 15 years and it will be Wojo. 

O'Neill and Crean both helped grow the program.  Buzz reaped the benefits and had (by far) the most success on the court.  I voted Buzz.  I'm hoping Wojo surpasses them all...

I'm a slurper!!!!!!!!


But only cuz you didn't have Wojo as a choice  ;)

I bet yall boy flops at VA Tech lol

In all seriousness though, I don't know how there could be any doubt. Buzz surpassed any other coach by a mile.

Now, I don't think as highly of him as a person as I might have a couple months ago, but there's no doubt MU did more in his time here than any other coach.

If I had to go further down the list, id rank them....

1. Buzz
TIE 2. TC and K O'Neill
4. Hank

That FINAL FOUR by Tom Crean surpasses EVERYTHING Brent did!

Quote from: MUSF on April 14, 2014, 04:17:17 PM
I also think many would take issue with your hopeless program comment.

Yes.  The last time the program truly seemed hopeless was in the wake of Dukiet, when KO took over.  Dukiet averaged a horrific 13 wins per season during his tenure - and that was against pretty weak competition.  Deane - for all his flaws - still averaged 20 wins per season, and did it against competition that was starting to improve (Great Midwest and then C-USA).  TC did an awesome job elevating the program even further, getting us to the Final Four and into the Big East...but the program he inherited was light years ahead of what KO had to deal with.

I'd like to hear some basketball wisdom from the person who voted for Dukiet.

Yes - I realize it was probably a sarcastic vote ;)

Quote from: WadeATKBurton on April 14, 2014, 04:30:31 PM
That FINAL FOUR by Tom Crean surpasses EVERYTHING Brent did!

Oh.

Hands down, KO. He was given a sinking dogsh*t program and was able to pull in some top talent and eventually reach the Sweet 16.

MU was headed for the Horizon League (if they were lucky) before KO arrived.

Without KO, there's no TC, Big East, the Al Center, etc.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2014, 04:05:08 PM
I didn't vote, seriously.


I'll also be interested to see if votes change over the next month(s) and year

none of the above, aina?

You gonna put your hat on the ballot too, kin?

1 - Kevin O'Neill - brought us back from the brink of being a middle of the pack Horizon school
2 - Buzz Williams - Consistent top 20 program, built on predecessor's accomplishment, cemented Marquette brand
Could swap 1 and 2 and no argument from me
3 - Tom Crean - Final 4, turned downward trajectory back to right direction
4 - Mike Deane - Did a great job coaching O'Neill's players.  Couldn't get his own
5 - Hank Raymonds - Preciptious drop from McGuire heights rather quickly
6 - Rick Majerus - Not ready for prime time
7 - Bob Dukiet - Continued downward spiral  to near impossible depths

How many Final Fours does Brent has??

I vote Wade.

Quote from: CTWarrior on April 14, 2014, 04:37:14 PM
1 - Kevin O'Neill - brought us back from the brink of being a middle of the pack Horizon school
2 - Buzz Williams - Consistent top 20 program, built on predecessor's accomplishment, cemented Marquette brand
Could swap 1 and 2 and no argument from me
3 - Tom Crean - Final 4, turned downward trajectory back to right direction
4 - Mike Deane - Did a great job coaching O'Neill's players.  Couldn't get his own
5 - Hank Raymonds - Preciptious drop from McGuire heights rather quickly
6 - Rick Majerus - Not ready for prime time
7 - Bob Dukiet - Continued downward spiral  to near impossible depths

This sums it up pretty well for me too.

Crean, as much as I hate to say it. A once proud,tradition rich program fallen on hard times. Made us relevant in CBB again
brought money in for facilities and some good players and made it a good program again. Turns out neither TC or Buzz
were very good at developing guys or in game coaching.

So I voted Crean, and here is why.

First and foremost, the pinnacle of his success tops anyone else.  Only non Al coach to get MU to the FF.  The E8 and conf championship were fantastic, but they weren't a final four.  
2) the Big East, the success Crean had allowed MU to be a legit candidate for the Big East.
3) the players.  Crean brought in players that are MU all time greats.  Wade of course, but also Novak, Diener, James, Jerel, Wes, Hayward.  Half of MU's top 10 in scoring were brought in by Crean.  
4)Tournament appearances.  In the 10 years before TC, MU was in the tourney 4 times.  TC got MU there 5 times and really built the foundation that Buzz continued.  

There can be no denying what Buzz did.  He had a great run of success, but I think that the higher plateau for Crean and the players that rewrote the record book, established MU as a NBA pipeline and put a face on MUBB, put Crean ahead of Buzz.  

I can certainly understand other points of view.  But my vote went Crean.  

Quote from: WadeATKBurton on April 14, 2014, 04:38:07 PM
How many Final Fours does Brent has??

Good question, how many does he has?

Quote from: WadeATKBurton on April 14, 2014, 04:38:07 PM
How many Final Fours does Brent has??

Brent does has nones.

Buzz does have 8 NCAA tourney wins to 5 for Crean, who had a grand total of 1 postseason win in his eight non-FF years.

Buzz also has 3 S16-or-better finishes to 1 for Crean.

Crean got us back to a level of prominence but, as he and K.O. both proved, it's not easy to sustain that level. Buzz sustained it and, until this past season, improved the level every year.

I'd go 1. Buzz ... 2. Crean ... 3. KO.

But I wouldn't fight to the death for that ranking, and I certainly can see those three in any order.

I didn't vote, though. If I did, it would have been None of the Above -- keeping a positive vibe for Wojo!!

Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2014, 04:58:07 PM
Brent does has nones.

Getting into that WV vernacular already  :-[

1. Buzz.
2. Crean
3. KO
4. Hank
5. Deane
6. Majerus
7. Dukiet

Looking only at their work at MU.   

Crean coached Marquette for 9 seasons.  His teams played in the NCAA tournament 5 of those seasons.  Three of those tournaments resulted in "one and dones," including the craptacular 61-49 loss to his old boss.

Of course the run to the FF was sweet.  But it has to be tempered by the home court bitter loss to the Broncos (54-40).  

Over all, Buzz has the edge, IMO.

I cosign CTWarriors overall analysis.

Buzz's 17-15 with good talent negates what went before. Two of his glory years were with Crean players. Crean went to a FF, which is the glory hole of college basketball. Unfortunately, both were douches in different ways

Crean gets too much credit for the Final Four run. The team went as far as it did because of DWade and as soon as we went up against a proven coach we get blown out. He wasn't able to build on our success that year and only won 1 NCAA tourney game without DWade.

O'Neill came into a much worse situation, was able to pull in talent consistently and got us to our first Sweet 16 in fifteen years.

I have to go with Buzz.  Sure Crean got to the FF but Wade was so good.  Crean's other trips to the dance were less memorable.  The consistency Buzz showed in 3 trips in a row to the SS replacing differrent leaders each time is almost as impressive.  But on top of all of that getting Lazar and the midgets (a team picked 12 in the BE) into the dance (and they were safely in they weren't a bubble team) is what pushes him over the top.
I really hope Wojo can be the man but honestly if he just does close to what Buzz accomplished on the court I will be thrilled.

Quote from: willie warrior on April 14, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
Buzz's 17-15 with good talent negates what went before. Two of his glory years were with Crean players. Crean went to a FF, which is the glory hole of college basketball. Unfortunately, both were douches in different ways

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!

Best post of the day!!!!

Best coach meaning best or most successful? Is recruiting considered, or are we just looking at coaching ability?

1. Buzz
2. TC
3. KO
4. Hank
5. Deane
6. Majerus
7. Dukiet


Besides having more wins and players in the NBA then everbody else on the list, Buzz has as many Sweet 16s as the other 6 combined. That is proof enough for me.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 14, 2014, 06:00:14 PM
1. Buzz
2. TC
3. KO
4. Hank
5. Deane
6. Majerus
7. Dukiet


Besides having more wins and players in the NBA then everbody else on the list, Buzz has as many Sweet 16s as the other 6 combined. That is proof enough for me.

Crean had 51 more wins that Buzz, and depends on who you give credit to for some of the players, but TC is ahead there as well

Buzz                  Crean  
Jimmy                   Wade
Jae                       Diener
DJO                      Novak
Buycks                 Matthews
                          Lazar



Am I missing anyone?  

KO---he saved the program.
Buzz--he is close but last season and hitting the bricks takes him down a notch to me.

And while many are don't think TC should get credit for the FF run, remember Buzz took a team with 3 NBA players to a first round exit against Washington.   

Quote from: buckchuckler on April 14, 2014, 06:44:26 PM
And while many are don't think TC should get credit for the FF run, remember Buzz took a team with 3 NBA players to a first round exit against Washington.   

To be fair, that Washington team also had 3 NBA guys.

Quote from: buckchuckler on April 14, 2014, 06:29:19 PM

Crean had 51 more wins that Buzz, and depends on who you give credit to for some of the players, but TC is ahead there as well

Buzz                  Crean  
Jimmy                   Wade
Jae                       Diener
DJO                      Novak
Buycks                 Matthews
                          Lazar



Am I missing anyone?  

Well, you're missing Burton, JJJ, Duane, Dawson, Hill, Cohen, Noskowiak, etc.

I mean, we were having a collective coronary that Buzz wasn't playing the first four, so we must think they had to be pretty good -- as did the rating services who called it a top-10 or top-15 class. I believe '14 was also very highly rated.

Quote from: brandx on April 14, 2014, 05:02:34 PM
Getting into that WV vernacular already  :-[

You must have missed the post that led me to say that the way I did ...

Quote from: buckchuckler on April 14, 2014, 06:29:19 PM

Crean had 51 more wins that Buzz, and depends on who you give credit to for some of the players, but TC is ahead there as well

Buzz                  Crean  
Jimmy                   Wade
Jae                       Diener
DJO                      Novak
Buycks                 Matthews
                          Lazar



Am I missing anyone?  

I think Buzz only real NBA player is Jimmy. The other guys are fringe NBA players at best and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they weren't in the league in 2 years. I hope I'm wrong. The player I'm most disappointed in is Jae. His career started out so promising and he has kind of fizzled out.

Where are all the Deane apologists?

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 14, 2014, 06:58:22 PM
Where are all the Deane apologists?

Deane was a solid coach.  He just couldn't recruit at the level that is Marquette.  I hope Wojo doesn't turn out to be a Deane, recruiting-wise. 

Crean average season 21-10    Williams average season   23-11
Crean  5 NCAA appearances in 9 year.    Williams  5 NCAA appearances in 6 years.
Crean 5 NCAA tourney wins.    Williams 8 NCAA tourney wins
Crean   1 final 4              Williams 0 final 4s.     2 Sweet 16's and 1 elite 8
Crean 190-96   .64189%       Williams 139-67   .67476%

Quote from: willie warrior on April 14, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
Two of his glory years were with Crean players.

Wrong. Buzz's "glory years" were years 3, 4 and 5 - two Sweet 16s, One Elite 8, a (real) Big East regular season title and runner up with back to back 14-4 conference records - all with his own players.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 14, 2014, 06:58:22 PM
Where are all the Deane apologists?

OK.  I'll take a shot.

Deane was the best coach to drink with after the game at Turner Hall.  He was also the best coach to pick up the tab for dinner at National Marquette day in Charlotte after we got whooped up on by UNCC.

Quote from: WadeATKBurton on April 14, 2014, 04:06:51 PM
All these Brent slurpers..I voted Tom Crean

Strictly as a precaution, you should know that while there is almost certainly nothing to be worried about, keefe has just read your....

INCOMING!  INCOMING!

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 14, 2014, 06:58:22 PM
Where are all the Deane apologists?

Not to mention.... I believe Mike Deane officially started the recruitment of Dwayne Wade.  While Deane was fired, he did plant a seed that grew into a Final Four appearance. 

For all of the Crean supporters....  Crean doesn't make it to the Final Four without Robert Jackson - a transfer from Mississippi St. 

Buzz did more with less and is the better coach.  Crean has recruited NBA talent, but this talent seems to not flourish underneath him.  The subpar performances of Wes Matthews and Noah Vonleh, during Crean's tutelage, attest to this theory. 

Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 14, 2014, 08:00:22 PM
Not to mention.... I believe Mike Deane officially started the recruitment of Dwayne Wade.  While Deane was fired, he did plant a seed that grew into a Final Four appearance. 

For all of the Crean supporters....  Crean doesn't make it to the Final Four without Robert Jackson - a transfer from Mississippi St. 

Buzz did more with less and is the better coach.  Crean has recruited NBA talent, but this talent seems to not flourish underneath him.  The subpar performances of Wes Matthews and Noah Vonleh, during Crean's tutelage, attest to this theory. 

What does the Robert Jackson comment have to do with anything?  Geeze if Buzz didn't have players he wouldn't have accomplished anything. 

And isn't Vonleh going to the NBA after 1 season? 

And how did Buzz have less? 

You just never make any sense at all. 

Vonleh didn't perform like an NBA player @ Indiana.  There were games where he didn't get as many shots as he should have.  There was a lot of criticism against Crean for this.

Crean had more NBA players on his teams and still disappointed in the tournament.  Buzz's teams were much smaller, yet he got the most out of the talent.  Take a look at preseason projections with Crean and Buzz.  Buzz continually outperforms Crean in that regard. 

If you paid attention during the Crean and Buzz eras, Buzz's teams always outperformed while Crean's continually disappointed.  This mantra has followed Crean to Indiana as well.  This past year was an aberration for Buzz.  He just didn't have the horses to make any noise. 

Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 14, 2014, 08:20:34 PM
Vonleh didn't perform like an NBA player @ Indiana.  There were games where he didn't get as many shots as he should have.  There was a lot of criticism against Crean for this.

Crean had more NBA players on his teams and still disappointed in the tournament.  Buzz's teams were much smaller, yet he got the most out of the talent.  Take a look at preseason projections with Crean and Buzz.  Buzz continually outperforms Crean in that regard.  

If you paid attention during the Crean and Buzz eras, Buzz's teams always outperformed while Crean's continually disappointed.  This mantra has followed Crean to Indiana as well.  This past year was an aberration for Buzz.  He just didn't have the horses to make any noise.  

Great points.  Great supporting evidence as well.  Tip of the cap.  I guess I just don't have enough time to pay attention to UM

I went Crean because of the level he raised Marquette to.  Big East, the Al, etc.

OK, I have a great deal of respect for KO, Tom Crean and even the Hillbilly. KO restored us to respectability; Crean got us back where we felt we belonged and the Hillbilly got us the consistency we craved.

I voted for the Hillbilly. I did so because as great as Crean was, he could not sustain it. The Hillbilly had us progressing every year until this one. Tournament, Sweet 16, Elite 8, off-year and who knows what could have been.

Look at the animosity from all of us when the Hillbilly bolted. The one hurt.

It's the Hillbilly, folks.

Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 14, 2014, 07:11:25 PM
Deane was a solid coach.  He just couldn't recruit at the level that is Marquette.  I hope Wojo doesn't turn out to be a Deane, recruiting-wise. 

What possible evidence do you have that Wojo can't recruit?

Quote from: GoldenEagle2002 on April 14, 2014, 08:46:31 PM
I went Crean because of the level he raised Marquette to.  Big East, the Al, etc.

And the hyperbaric chamber, and the Cadillac Escalades, and the tan, and the clapping, all top shelf level.

Quote from: dgies9156 on April 14, 2014, 09:02:06 PM
OK, I have a great deal of respect for KO, Tom Crean and even the Hillbilly. KO restored us to respectability; Crean got us back where we felt we belonged and the Hillbilly got us the consistency we craved.

I voted for the Hillbilly. I did so because as great as Crean was, he could not sustain it. The Hillbilly had us progressing every year until this one. Tournament, Sweet 16, Elite 8, off-year and who knows what could have been.

Look at the animosity from all of us when the Hillbilly bolted. The one hurt.

It's the Hillbilly, folks.

I think this sums it up pretty accurately for me. KO and TC really did a nice job at Marquette. But, as far as sustained success goes, Brett Williams accomplished the most.

Maybe those before him paved the way, but he came from nowhere and solidified this program amongst the top twenty programs in the country. His year two (2) coaching effort was magical.

TC and KO felt they had reached a ceiling with Marquette. Brett proved them both wrong. Now, hopefully, Wojo can prove that Brett is absolutely bonkers.

Tom Crean hands down...

Whether you like it or not he started the winning culture and the MU Brand and did it all without Juco's...

No some players did not get better then they were after they left, but almost all went on to have good success.

And if all he did was bring in a Dwayne Wade, that is ALL HE HAS TO DO to get the ball rolling. And he did.

Buzz only built on the residue of that.

Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on April 15, 2014, 07:56:53 AM
Tom Crean hands down...

Whether you like it or not he started the winning culture and the MU Brand and did it all without Juco's...

Jamil Lott, Mike Kinsella, and Trend Blackledge beg to differ.   And don't forget, Wade was a partial qualifier.   

Quote from: dgies9156 on April 14, 2014, 09:02:06 PM
OK, I have a great deal of respect for KO, Tom Crean and even the Hillbilly. KO restored us to respectability; Crean got us back where we felt we belonged and the Hillbilly got us the consistency we craved.

I voted for the Hillbilly. I did so because as great as Crean was, he could not sustain it. The Hillbilly had us progressing every year until this one. Tournament, Sweet 16, Elite 8, off-year and who knows what could have been.

Look at the animosity from all of us when the Hillbilly bolted. The one hurt.

It's the Hillbilly, folks.

What do you mean he couldn't sustain it?

Tom Crean got us off and running in the Big East and for that, no one comes close to Crean imo in this poll.

And he stuck by Wade and did not give up when he could have who will be a Hall of Famer about 7 years. That is success.

No one can argue with that. There is no doubt Buzz was good and even semi great on some levels.

He had great recruiting connections and he worked under Crean so Crean should get some credit for that too.

Someone asked, 'is this the best coach or the most successful?' That is a valid question and important distinction. But I pick the same guy for both.

Tom Crean pressed full court, allowed players who could shoot and play have some freedom and was a master motivator and communicator.

The thing about Buzz, he could not learn how to unlock non-shooters and shot makers games enough to make them dangerous, dug in the bench too deep and lost a lot of close games.

It only comes down to those two for me. I tel you what though, Jamil Wilson  Todd Mayo, Vander Blue, Steve Taylor, and Juan Anderson [especially] would have been much better players under Crean then they were under Buzz.

Those kind of guys he could work with...he was not good with bigs though.

Don't ask me to explain I would be here all day...but they would. 

Quote from: willie warrior on April 14, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
Buzz's 17-15 with good talent negates what went before. Two of his glory years were with Crean players. Crean went to a FF, which is the glory hole of college basketball. Unfortunately, both were douches in different ways

Really, which glory years are you referring to? The ones where we lost to Mizzou in the 2nd round and Washington in the 1st? Because those were the results when Buzz was coaching Crean's players. As soon as all the Crean recruits were gone is when we went on our Sweet Sixteens and Elite Eight run.

The only Crean players to get out of the first weekend were the ones on the Final Four team.   

I'm surprised for the lack of Hank Raymonds love.

That guy had success at MU as the HC, started the B&G fund, was a long time successful AD at Marquette.

We owe him a great debt of gratitude. He had some magnificent seasons at MU, just had a tough time in the tourney.

1977–78   Marquette   24–4         NCAA 1st Round
1978–79   Marquette   22–7         NCAA Sweet 16
1979–80   Marquette   18-9         NCAA 1st Round
1980–81   Marquette   20–11         NIT 1st Round
1981–82   Marquette   23–9         NCAA 2nd Round
1982–83   Marquette   19–10         NCAA 1st Round
Marquette:   126–50      

I'm not.   If the question was "Best human being to coach"....   Hank wins hands down.    I think the perception is that he was a nice guy and a decent coach, but the program didn't move forward under him.   In fact, it stagnated and started its downward trajectory.   

Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 15, 2014, 09:13:38 AM
I'm surprised for the lack of Hank Raymonds love.

That guy had success at MU as the HC, started the B&G fund, was a long time successful AD at Marquette.

We owe him a great debt of gratitude. He had some magnificent seasons at MU, just had a tough time in the tourney.

1977–78   Marquette   24–4         NCAA 1st Round
1978–79   Marquette   22–7         NCAA Sweet 16
1979–80   Marquette   18-9         NCAA 1st Round
1980–81   Marquette   20–11         NIT 1st Round
1981–82   Marquette   23–9         NCAA 2nd Round
1982–83   Marquette   19–10         NCAA 1st Round
Marquette:   126–50      

I think the lack of support for Hank stems from the fact that a lot of people weren't around when he coached. 

I vote Buzz Williams for winning.  Last year was a dud, but you can't argue with what he did.

However, best coach for the University, I'd say Crean as far as PR, etc.

Buzz, was probably not the best representative of the University overall, given the off court issues, and hence the reason he is not hear (didn't have the backing of a lot of the administration).

So, Buzz for winning.  Crean for PR/image.

With Wojo, it would be nice to win AND have the previous PR image.  Our PR image lost a little luster under Buzz.

Hank was great guy, no doubt about it. Great coach....not in my opinion.

Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 15, 2014, 09:28:32 AM
I think the lack of support for Hank stems from the fact that a lot of people weren't around when he coached.  

There are plenty of folks on this board that were around when Hank coached.  tower's comments sums it up for me.   Tough to replace a legend.  As Athletic Director he was a huge supporter of women's sports and mostly did good.

But at the end of the day, he was the ying to Al's yang.  Together they produced beauty.  Hank alone, however, couldn't sustain it.

Hank was a very good coach, he just wasn't head coaching material. He was put in the unenviable position of following Al and was Al's polar opposite. Great guy, always had time for fans and alums, probably should be judged more on what he did as AD and his long service to Marquette.

Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 15, 2014, 09:28:32 AM
I think the lack of support for Hank stems from the fact that a lot of people weren't around when he coached. 

I was around when Hank coached. He was a good coach and an absolutely great guy in a no win situation. He inherited a program that against all odds (small, urban, sketchy neighborhood, poor facilities, etc.) had climbed to the summit of college basketball. Without Al a decline was inevitable. Hank was the first coach in the downward spiral that bottomed under Bob Dukiet. Taken out of context his numbers are solid, but he took over a top 5 program and left his successor one that wasn't in the top 20. That's a negative trajectory any way you look at it.

Quote from: WadeATKBurton on April 14, 2014, 04:38:07 PM
How many Final Fours does Brent has??

Are you from West Virginia?

Quote from: leever on April 15, 2014, 10:17:49 AM
Are you from West Virginia?

Apparently Appalachia has internet access now.  Or, someone just stole a smartphone from the nearest wal mart. 

Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 15, 2014, 10:20:51 AM
Apparently Appalachia has internet access now.  Or, someone just stole a smartphone from the nearest wal mart. 

AOL still makes hundreds of millions off of dial up internet subscribers

Quote from: swoopem on April 15, 2014, 10:25:13 AM
AOL still makes hundreds of millions off of dial up internet subscribers

Good Point.  It's amazing that when you have cable access, how you dismiss dial up.  I think the last time I had dial up was 97.  Do you know how many people still use dial up today?

Voted Buzz for the 3 year run of success he had....Crean #2, K.O., #3 - all made major contributions to Marquette hoops for different reasons.  Buzz definitely came into the best situation of Crean, Kevin - yet felt Crean underachieved after Final Four season - he had all the tools that he helped create through his success - The Al, Big East, D-Wade to market, a Final Four appearance....yet just couldn't recruit well enough at MU to sustain success or build off of the Final Four..

Buzz. S16, S16, E8. Humiliated UW by stealing Vander. Walk-it-out on the sidelines against Louisville. Dance to Country Roads. Highly entertaining when he was "on." 5/6 years were thrilling.

Crean a close 2nd. Brought my favorite basketball player of all time to MU and the final 4 run was the best thing a freshman could have asked for.

I echo the sentiments expressed by some others that I hope in  10-15 years this is a no-brainer for Wojo. Would be quite the ride.

Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 15, 2014, 09:28:32 AM
I think the lack of support for Hank stems from the fact that a lot of people weren't around when he coached. 

Hank was known as Al's X and O guy.  If he had hot shot recruiters with him, he would have won this thing hands down.

He was Bruce Weber before Bruce Weber.

Quote from: mu-rara on April 15, 2014, 11:16:51 AM
Hank was known as Al's X and O guy.  If he had hot shot recruiters with him, he would have won this thing hands down.

He was Bruce Weber before Bruce Weber.

Although he did recruit Doc.

Sir Lawrence

I think Rick had a big role in landing Doc, but he was a Hank recruit.

Goose, you might be right, but here's a tidbit from Hank's obituary write up in the Journal/Sentinel:

Doc Rivers, current Boston Celtics coach and Raymonds' highest-profile signee at MU, recounted Raymonds' recruiting pitch while he was also considering signing with DePaul, Indiana, Michigan and Notre Dame.

"One of the first things he told me is, 'You're going to be a pro basketball player. There's no doubt about that. And good for you. Now, what are you going to do after that?' " Rivers recalled. " 'Will you be prepared after your basketball career to do something else and be something else? What are you going to do?'

"Well, as a kid, all I'm thinking about is, 'Hell, the pro basketball part sounds good to me, Coach,' and I'll stop there. And he really made you understand no, you can't stop there. That's a great goal, but then what's the goal after that?"

Agree with Tower's comments.  Hank was a fantastic assistant and a wonderful and loyal person, but took us in the wrong direction as HC.  He inherited a team that was arguably better than the '77 team that won the NC, and 6 years later handed Rick a program that was fading from the national consciousness.

I loved Hank...but the best coaches on the list while they were at MU were clearly KO, TC and Bart.

Hank was the greatest assistant in Marquette history.  He deserves credit for exactly that.  Perfect fit with Al.  Wonderful and kind man from all accounts.

My junior year at MU (Majerus' first year as coach) we beat a very good Louisville team at Freedom Hall that ended a long home court winning streak for them. My friends and I were so excited we decided to call Hank at his home to celebrate. He was very gracious, as well as very excited about the win. He told us we should meet the team at the Gym when they got back into town. I asked him if he meant the Gym Bar and he laughed and said that would be fun too. Great guy.

I voted for buzz because year in and year out he coached up his team 08-13 (14 wasn't coaching...it was a suicide mission)

We reaped the benefits of crean's classes for 2 years.  buzz built on them, made his style team, and got us continued success for a decent stretch.  

We should be happy that we made the tourney 8 years in a row and had a coach that didn't let us fall into forgetsville.

Crean laid the groundwork buzz made it happen

Quote from: Heavy Gear on April 15, 2014, 12:50:34 PM
My junior year at MU (Majerus' first year as coach) we beat a very good Louisville team at Freedom Hall that ended a long home court winning streak for them. My friends and I were so excited we decided to call Hank at his home to celebrate. He was very gracious, as well as very excited about the win. He told us we should meet the team at the Gym when they got back into town. I asked him if he meant the Gym Bar and he laughed and said that would be fun too. Great guy.

Was that the win where Majerus said "I'm going to eat every rib in Louisville tonight" in the post-game interview?

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 15, 2014, 02:12:19 PM
Was that the win where Majerus said "I'm going to eat every rib in Louisville tonight" in the post-game interview?

Yes it was.