Not scared to admit it. For 5 seasons I bought into Bert's schtick. Even last year I backed Bert last year, thinking all coaches have a bad season every so often. I had heard some stories that concerned me in Bert's first 5 years here, but figured they were all overplayed or just part of high-major college athletics. Since leaving, I have heard more stories from people who I believe would know and would not exaggerate things, and I was wrong. Bert played me. He played many of us. I do appreciate what he did (the on court success of the first 5 seasons, Buzz's Bunch), but we are better off where we are now than we were a month ago.
Anybody else get played?
BRAVO!!
Hell will freeze over likely, but looking to see if a handful of others are as brave as you, two in particular. It isn't getting any colder here, so I doubt it will happen.
So is Bert worst than Tanning Cream?
I'm more of a results oriented person. While I wasn't happy with the off the court shenanigans, I was able to forgive quite a bit as long as the team was winning.
Last year they weren't. Harder to deal with them.
I admit it, he had me fooled. It wasn't until midway through this season that I saw what an abysmal game coach he could be. But then I read the story about Buzz's Bunch and figured I was being too hard on the guy. I still love what he does with special-needs kids but he completely screwed this team's season. He will last three years in Blacksburg.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on April 03, 2014, 10:47:04 AM
So is Bert worst than Tanning Cream?
They both have their issues. Who ran a "dirtier" program? Bert. Which is a nut? Well, both. I'd say Crean wins that one by a slim margin. But the margin is slim.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 03, 2014, 10:48:04 AM
I'm more of a results oriented person. While I wasn't happy with the off the court shenanigans, I was able to forgive quite a bit as long as the team was winning.
Last year they weren't. Harder to deal with them.
Well put.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 03, 2014, 10:42:20 AM
Hell will freeze over likely... It isn't getting any colder here, so I doubt it will happen.
Clearly you haven't been to Milwaukee recently.
I totally bought into what he was saying and was a big time believer. I was a sophomore when he was hired and went to his press conference so not knowing anything about him, but ended up walking away impressed (even though he didn't answer a single question "it's about the guys"). Because I was a fan since day one I always imagined that I would be at his retirement press conference celebrating multiple final fours, a few championships, and so on. Instead I straight up got played and he turned his back on me and my school.
For that I say thank you for the 5 years of success, but I can't wait to watch you do absolutely nothing at VA Tech.
Chicos, I have grown to appreciate/like your posts more over the last couple months. And I know you obviously care about Marquette a lot.
But please... spare us the constant martyrdom-schtick.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 03, 2014, 10:37:35 AM
Not scared to admit it. For 5 seasons I bought into Bert's schtick. Even last year I backed Bert last year, thinking all coaches have a bad season every so often. I had heard some stories that concerned me in Bert's first 5 years here, but figured they were all overplayed or just part of high-major college athletics. Since leaving, I have heard more stories from people who I believe would know and would not exaggerate things, and I was wrong. Bert played me. He played many of us. I do appreciate what he did (the on court success of the first 5 seasons, Buzz's Bunch), but we are better off where we are now than we were a month ago.
Anybody else get played?
Ditto. He won so much, I had to assume it was sour grapes or "what have you done for me lately" mentality.
I was increasingly hating the turnover, but it was hard to get too pissed off when we improved every year, so it was easy to ignore.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on April 03, 2014, 10:47:04 AM
So is Bert worst than Tanning Cream?
The way Bort ran the Big East and Marquette's future as a major hoops power through the mud when he left makes him worse in my book.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on April 03, 2014, 10:54:04 AM
Chicos, I have grown to appreciate/like your posts more over the last couple months. And I know you obviously care about Marquette a lot.
But please... spare us the constant martyrdom-schtick.
If you know anything about him, you KNOW that is impossible.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on April 03, 2014, 10:47:04 AM
So is Bert worst than Tanning Cream?
When Crean left, there were was a lot of stories about all of the horrible things he did while at MU. Saunders, Ammo, Mortenson, the lost 03-04 recruiting class, how he treated underlings, publicly trashing Todd Townsend... in other words, a whole bunch of stuff that had been overlooked suddenly came to the fore to help justify how glad everyone was that he was gone. The same thing is going on now in regards to Buzz. I take it every bit as seriously as I did with Crean. From a purely basketball standpoint, Buzz is a better coach than Crean.
I supported Crean while he was here. I supported Buzz while he was here. I will support CoWoJo.
would have to admit, bought the Buzz Schtick. (sp?)
College D1 coaches, for the large part, are a heaping pile of slime. You just hope the guy you have isn't covered in it too heavily. However if he is, as long as he's winning and stays with you, you're willing to look past the slime
All college coaches are salesman. It's a HUGE part of the job.
If we like the product (aka winning), we will believe anything the salesman tells us. Cincy fans LOVED Huggy. Can you imagine that? Winning is a powerful perfume.
Buzz sold us on the idea that he was "different" from other coaches. He is not different. He's a salesman. He was just using a different sales tactic.
I don't blame Buzz for that. I wish him well.
Wojo is going to have his fair share of coachspeak and idiosyncrasies as well. It's part of the job. We just need to smile and nod along, knowing that deep down, he's selling. It's what they do.
The Holy Trinity of college coaching:
#1 Win games
#2 Graduate players
#3 Stay out of the news for negative crap
You're being too hard on yourself.
Nothing wrong with liking the guy while he was here. He did a lot of good things at MU, and brought us many great memories.
Frankly, I completely misjudged the guy... I didn't think he was smart enough to pull off the schtick. To be on all the time like he is, it takes something that someone with an "affinity" for numbers and schedules typically does not have.
In fact, now I'm thinking that his schtick is real, but it's the whole "numbers" and "schedules" thing that was the ruse.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 03, 2014, 10:49:46 AM
Well put.
yup--many of us go with ends justify the means, or at least cause them to be ignored.
Quote from: ecompt on April 03, 2014, 10:48:54 AM
He will last three years in Blacksburg.
I agree with this completely.
He's either going to have some success and bolt for a better/bigger program ASAP; or he's going to flop, lose his mind and resurface a few years down the road at Texas-Arlington. Anyone who thought Biff was close to losing it at times during a 17-15 season, wait until he goes 10-20.
At least you didn't seek him out to see if he would be your engagement encounter sponsor. That wasn't you, was it?
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 03, 2014, 11:00:06 AM
would have to admit, bought the Buzz Schtick. (sp?)
I bought into it as well. Not ashamed, made the best call with the info I had at the time.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on April 03, 2014, 10:47:04 AM
So is Bert worst than Tanning Cream?
Yes because I think people can accept Marquette being a stepping stone job for Indiana. But when you leave Marquette for VT it makes us look bad. I know Marquette wants to take the high ground here but if he truly was asked to leave we need to say that.
Buzz played me too. Guy was in over his head big time. Talk is cheap. Buzz was a poor leader for many reasons -- insecure, no loyalty, mentally weak, dishonest, fake. TC left Marquette for a job that he thought would give him a better chance to win a National Championship. Buzz left because he couldn't take the pressure of the expectations here at Marquette. But it makes us look like we weren't good enough for him. That's why he is worse.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 03, 2014, 11:16:01 AM
I bought into it as well. Not ashamed, made the best call with the info I had at the time.
I remember talking to Crean for about 10 minutes when I was working a fundraiser on campus. My immediate thought was he was a salesman -- slick exterior with a conniving mind and an eye out for the next opportunity. But in my mind he owned it. He knew exactly who he was. So when Indiana came calling, I called him a traitor and pushed it out of my mind, chalking it up to "It is what it is."
I think that's why I'm among the people who are peeved about Buzz. He was the same guy as Crean on the interior (as Guns aptly called it on another thread, a "basketball mercenary") but he made such an effort on his exterior to tell us that's not who he was.
Let me put it another way. If you found out your spouse was cheating on you, which partner would devastate you more: the neighborhood's gigolo-in-training, or your best friend?
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on April 03, 2014, 11:06:30 AM
All college coaches are salesman. It's a HUGE part of the job.
If we like the product (aka winning), we will believe anything the salesman tells us. Cincy fans LOVED Huggy. Can you imagine that? Winning is a powerful perfume.
Buzz sold us on the idea that he was "different" from other coaches. He is not different. He's a salesman. He was just using a different sales tactic.
I don't blame Buzz for that. I wish him well.
Wojo is going to have his fair share of coachspeak and idiosyncrasies as well. It's part of the job. We just need to smile and nod along, knowing that deep down, he's selling. It's what they do.
The Holy Trinity of college coaching:
#1 Win games
#2 Graduate players
#3 Stay out of the news for negative crap
+1
My view of Buzz will always be more nuanced than a "slurper" or viewing him as the devil incarnate. People like to view things in black and white.
But people are complex. Buzz had many shades of grey. I do think he was genuine in many things. And I think he was an egotistical salesman in others. Overall, I think he cared about Marquette and his players. He probably just cared about himself a little bit more. But that's human nature, no?
Quote from: mikekinsellaMVP on April 03, 2014, 11:19:02 AM
I remember talking to Crean for about 10 minutes when I was working a fundraiser on campus. My immediate thought was he was a salesman -- slick exterior with a conniving mind and an eye out for the next opportunity. But in my mind he owned it. He knew exactly who he was. So when Indiana came calling, I called him a traitor and pushed it out of my mind, chalking it up to "It is what it is."
I think that's why I'm among the people who are peeved about Buzz. He was the same guy as Crean on the interior (as Guns aptly called it on another thread, a "basketball mercenary") but he made such an effort on his exterior to tell us that's not who he was.
Let me put it another way. If you found out your spouse was cheating on you, which partner would devastate you more: the neighborhood's gigolo-in-training, or your best friend?
Good analogy but I would word it a different way. What would you be more understanding of? Your spouse cheating on you with Brad Pitt (IU) or Danny Devito (VT).
Quote from: Bleuteaux on April 03, 2014, 11:25:14 AM
+1
My view of Buzz will always be more nuanced than a "slurper" or viewing him as the devil incarnate. People like to view things in black and white.
But people are complex. Buzz had many shades of grey. I do think he was genuine in many things. And I think he was an egotistical salesman in others. Overall, I think he cared about Marquette and his players. He probably just cared about himself a little bit more. But that's human nature, no?
I tend to agree. I don't think Bernard played us so much, as he has so many shades of grey that he was playing himself more than anyone else.
Remember when Otule got the life-time achievement award before the season even began? There were comments (and jokes) on the board about the timing of the award. Why not at the season end banquet? One has to wonder if Butch had checked out even before the season began.
Then there was Brent's quote that compromise was the same as surrender. Never could figure with whom he was even negotiating. It now seems he was battling something he thought to be constrictive/unjust. Himself?
The season, in the end, was Buckaroo not doing what was right, but trying to prove himself right and hurting a lot of people and maybe abusing some players. Is this not compromising?
Anyway, Brett, the same guy who went to the Mayo Clinic (not Todd - Rochester, MN) because he could not sleep, is carrying so much baggage, that one almost has to feel sorry for him. Almost I said.
I think he'll do well, for a while, in Blackpond, VA., but, sadly, his demons are likely to catch him somewhere, sometime.
Nonetheless, save for the past year, Brent did lift and help solidify the program. For that, we should thank him.
Quote from: mikekinsellaMVP on April 03, 2014, 11:19:02 AM
If you found out your spouse was cheating on you, which partner would devastate you more: the neighborhood's gigolo-in-training, or your best friend?
Quote from: Shack on April 03, 2014, 11:34:10 AM
Good analogy but I would word it a different way. What would you be more understanding of? Your spouse cheating on you with Brad Pitt (IU) or Danny Devito (VT).
I don't mean to pick on you guys, but this is the exact type of flawed logic that fans mistakenly twist themselves into.
It. Is. A. Job.
These guys aren't emotionally invested in the school and the program like we are. They just aren't. They can't be.
We aren't married to these guys. They aren't "cheating" on us.
They are guns for hire. We pay them. They perform.
When they have outlived their usefulness, we'll fire them (Mike Deane), and when they find a gig they want more, they will leave. That's it. Reality.
Quote from: tower912 on April 03, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
When Crean left, there were was a lot of stories about all of the horrible things he did while at MU. Saunders, Ammo, Mortenson, the lost 03-04 recruiting class, how he treated underlings, publicly trashing Todd Townsend... in other words, a whole bunch of stuff that had been overlooked suddenly came to the fore to help justify how glad everyone was that he was gone. The same thing is going on now in regards to Buzz. I take it every bit as seriously as I did with Crean. From a purely basketball standpoint, Buzz is a better coach than Crean.
I supported Crean while he was here. I supported Buzz while he was here. I will support CoWoJo.
Exactly.
Do I feel as though I was "played" by Buzz? Well, I did state many times that coaches simply play to win because that is how they are wired. I truly believed no coach would stay with an unsuccessful strategy purely out of stubbornness. But now I definitely do wonder about all that when it came to Buzz, and I admit I don't like that feeling.
I certainly don't feel like I need to apologize for defending a coach who brought us five fun seasons ... S16-S16-E8 ... Jimmy, Jae, DJO, Vander, Davante, Junior, Mayo, Lockett, Deonte, etc.
Ten or 20 years from now, when I look back at the Buzz Era, I will remember how much I enjoyed watching most of his teams and how much fun I had going to D.C. to watch us beat Miami. Same with Crean. I'll look back on Wade-Diener-Novak-Jackson taking us to the Final Four, not the relative failures that followed.
I have gotten to know each basketball coach fairly well beginning with Al, but I never met Buzz personally. However, I would tell people he was my favorite coach, as a person, next to Hank. I always wanted to get a chance to meet Buzz, but after hearing some things on this board and from those who knew him, I guess I was fooled as well. I appreciate the success he had and for Buzz' bunch, but I no longer put him anywhere close to Hank as a person. And yes I know Hank wasn't perfect either, but he definitely was a great person in my eyes.
I too feel Buzz is more slimey than he led us all to believe. Having said that, I am glad he is at VT. I don't feel spited for him leaving MU. I think that the MU brass are glad he is gone as well - maybe even pushed him out, so he had no choice but to leave.
It is his own fault and feel that he made many missteps along the way that I will not chalk up to "young coaching" or "learning." He was calculated in everything he said or did with the fan base buying into it.
He won us many games and took us to a new level and for that, I thank him. Other than the W's, I have nothing else to say about him other than Buzz's bunch being a good program.
Nobody is worse than Crean. Nobody.
Say what you want about Buzz, but he would NEVER, EVER give one of his kids every award at his basketball camp. Not one award...every award. Buzz would never, as far as I can tell, bring freshmen to a press availability and leave seniors behind. Buzz may be a lot of schtick, but Crean is a grade A A55hole.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on April 03, 2014, 11:53:19 AM
I don't mean to pick on you, but this is the exact type of flawed logic that fans mistakenly twist themselves into.
It. Is. A. Job.
These guys aren't emotionally invested in the school and the program like we are. They just aren't. They can't be.
We aren't married to these guys. They aren't "cheating" on us.
They are guns for hire. We pay them. They perform.
When they have outlived their usefulness, we'll fire them (Mike Deane), and when they find a gig they want more, they will leave. That's it. Reality.
Buzz always talked about who "we" are and our "culture" at Marquette. He stressed loyalty and talked about his players and called them family. Most coaches don't take it to the level that Buzz did and that is why I think there is so much hatred for him. He spun a lot of bs and exposed himself as a fraud when he went to Va Tech. If he would have went to a more prestigious school, that is one thing, but to downgrade just makes him look like a big a$$.
I believed what Buzz said, and bought into his schtick. And I defended him and his substitution patterns until the end...firmly believing that he knew what he was doing.
I was wrong, but don't think I'm an idiot.
First off, he won - much more than most of us expected, at least for the first five years. That history of winning likely affected my view of him this season, and made me more likely to defend him than if this season was par for the course. As others have said, like it or not, winning affects most fans' willingness to believe what their coach is telling them.
Second, I am far from an "insider." I have season tickets, get to about 10 home games per season, watch them all the time on TV, and follow the message boards. But I have never met or spoken with the man, don't get to many off-season functions like the BBQ or awards dinner (I live several hours from Milwaukee), and don't know any current students, or anybody who works in the Athletic Department. Thus, my ability to judge him was based on limited info, and most of it was positive - winning, building MU basketball into a "brand" that translated into the NBA, Buzz' Bunch, etc. I'm nowhere near close enough to know what really happened with Newbill, Vander, etc.
Now that "insiders" (and players like STJr) are talking more openly, it's easier to see that it was just a schtick and I understand that I was fooled. Still don't think that would make me an idiot...unless I had access to "inside" information and simply ignored it.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 03, 2014, 12:00:51 PM
I believed what Buzz said, and bought into his schtick. And I defended him and his substitution patterns until the end...firmly believing that he knew what he was doing.
I was wrong, but don't think I'm an idiot.
First off, he won - much more than most of us expected, at least for the first five years. That history of winning likely affected my view of him this season, and made me more likely to defend him than if this season was par for the course. As others have said, like or not, winning affects most fans' willingness to believe what their coach is telling them.
Second, I am far from an "insider." I have season tickets, get to about 10 home games per season, watch them all the time on TV, and follow the message boards. But I have never met or spoken with the man, don't get to many off-season functions like the BBQ or awards dinner (I live several hours from Milwaukee), and don't know any current students, or anybody who works in the Athletic Department. Thus, my ability to judge him was based on limited info, and most of it was positive - winning, building MU basketball into a "brand" that translated into the NBA, Buzz' Bunch, etc. I'm nowhere near close enough to know what really happened with Newbill, Vander, etc.
Now that "insiders" (and players like STJr) are talking more openly, it's easier to see that it was just a schtick and I understand that I was fooled. Still don't think that would make mean idiot...unless I had access to "inside" information and simply ignored it.
Feel pretty much the exact and way.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 03, 2014, 11:14:56 AM
I agree with this completely.
He's either going to have some success and bolt for a better/bigger program ASAP; or he's going to flop, lose his mind and resurface a few years down the road at Texas-Arlington. Anyone who thought Biff was close to losing it at times during a 17-15 season, wait until he goes 10-20.
Do not under estimate Curly's potential to land VT in trouble with the NCAA if things don't turn around quick. Based on his character, I put the over/under on "issues" surfacing at four years. I might even take the under.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on April 03, 2014, 11:25:14 AM
Overall, I think he cared about Marquette and his players. He probably just cared about himself a little bit more. But that's human nature, no?
There is no 'overall' in leadership. You care about your organization, its culture and embrace its values always. And your number one priority is to take care of your people. Without reservation or favor. From the first hand accounts of players it would seem that Bart doesn't have the least appreciation for what it takes to lead people. But one thing is clear - Bert thinks of himself first. Human nature? Of course. But the responsibility of leadership requires you to subordinate that nature for the betterment of your people and, in turn, the organization. Bret doesn't just think of himself first. Burt takes care of himself first.
Quote from: Sharpie on April 03, 2014, 12:06:27 PM
Feel pretty much the exact and way.
I bought into what Brent said, unfortunately, like O'Neill and Crean before him. It will take me a long time to "listen" to any coach, including Coach W, rightly or wrongly.
I am over the bitter grapes. I wish Bartly the best at VT.
I never believe any of these guys. Deane would have left if BC hired him. Al wanted the Bucks job and eventually left because he wanted to make some real money. Al & JoePa are the same age. Why don't we rag on Al for leaving early? He had 30 good years left with us?
TC really bothered me. Buzz simply amused me.
On to the Wojo era.
I'll say it, I was an idiot too.
Great on the court success. He left the program in a better position than when he arrived...IMO.
However, I don't think he left the university in a better position than when he arrived...IMO.
Quote from: The Lens on April 03, 2014, 12:26:25 PM
I never believe any of these guys. Deane would have left if BC hired him. Al wanted the Bucks job and eventually left because he wanted to make some real money. Al & JoePa are the same age. Why don't we rag on Al for leaving early? He had 30 good years left with us?
TC really bothered me. Buzz simply amused me.
On to the Wojo era.
Al took a TON of criticism from MU fans during the 76-77 season. Winning the National Championship changed everything about how we remember him.
Look, I understand we all feel burned by Buzz, that's normal. I include myself in that category. That being said, the one comment that seems to irk people the most that I have seen is Buzz's comments on the Big East. I hate to break this to all of you but...he's NOT wrong. the conference really is garbage, when you compare it to what MU came from. I'm sorry, but that's the reality. MU took MAJOR MAJOR steps down with this new conference, and again, that's just the reality of it. I am a HUGE MU fan, but it's hard for me to ignore, and as much as I really do hate it...I can see why so many see this conference as mid major(ish). It's hard not to, when you WERE aligned with schools like Cuse, UConn, Pitt, Louisville, Cincy etc...and now you are aligned with schools like Creighton, Butler and Xavier.
I know all of you try to convince yourselves that the new BE is a really good conference, but it's simply not...and you just need to be honest with yourselves, and not try to delude yourselves into thinking it's something it isn't. I can completely understand Buzz leaving for an ACC school, even if it's the worst one than staying longer in what is truly an average ta best conference. just the way it is folks.
Quote from: tower912 on April 03, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
When Crean left, there were was a lot of stories about all of the horrible things he did while at MU.
Fact is, those stories were common while Crean was at MU. My wife, who suffered fools much better than most, met him many times and even she felt the guy made her skin crawl.
Soldiers weep when leaders fall.
Leaders accept the outcome and move on.
Where do you rank?
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on April 03, 2014, 11:53:19 AM
I don't mean to pick on you guys, but this is the exact type of flawed logic that fans mistakenly twist themselves into.
It. Is. A. Job.
These guys aren't emotionally invested in the school and the program like we are. They just aren't. They can't be.
I'm on board with you, Guns. The analogy was meant to address how we're feeling, not imply that they owe us anything.
That being said, I'm a sports fan. I'll twist logic to my liking, thank you very much.
Quote from: muguru on April 03, 2014, 12:32:35 PM
Look, I understand we all feel burned by Buzz, that's normal. I include myself in that category. That being said, the one comment that seems to irk people the most that I have seen is Buzz's comments on the Big East. I hate to break this to all of you but...he's NOT wrong. the conference really is garbage, when you compare it to what MU came from. I'm sorry, but that's the reality. MU took MAJOR MAJOR steps down with this new conference, and again, that's just the reality of it. I am a HUGE MU fan, but it's hard for me to ignore, and as much as I really do hate it...I can see why so many see this conference as mid major(ish). It's hard not to, when you WERE aligned with schools like Cuse, UConn, Pitt, Louisville, Cincy etc...and now you are aligned with schools like Creighton, Butler and Xavier.
I know all of you try to convince yourselves that the new BE is a really good conference, but it's simply not...and you just need to be honest with yourselves, and not try to delude yourselves into thinking it's something it isn't. I can completely understand Buzz leaving for an ACC school, even if it's the worst one than staying longer in what is truly an average ta best conference. just the way it is folks.
Average conference at best?? I think of the horizon league as an average conference. Sure it's not as good as it was, but we could get 5 teams in some years and it will always be a top 4-5 conference. Nothing to sneeze at.
Quote from: muguru on April 03, 2014, 12:32:35 PM
I know all of you try to convince yourselves that the new BE is a really good conference, but it's simply not...and you just need to be honest with yourselves, and not try to delude yourselves into thinking it's something it isn't. I can completely understand Buzz leaving for an ACC school, even if it's the worst one than staying longer in what is truly an average ta best conference. just the way it is folks.
Who here has ever described the new Big East as "a really good conference?"
It was, however,
by far the best option on the table for MU after the old Big East exploded. And it's a wholly respectable conference.
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference
If you truly believe the line you've been fed about Buck leaving because of the new BE and Fox Sports 1 ... well, I'm not sure there's a cure for that level of delusion.
I admit I too bought into what Brent was cooking. After TC left, I was a little more cautious, but that wore off over time because we were winning. At the beginning of this season I even got a Badger fan friend of mine to admit Marquette had been the better program recently. But this past season was so frustrating, especially the way Brent coached. I honestly though maybe he got concussed over the summer and was have some lingering effects. A few days after the season ended I started to worry how the team was going to do next season because we were going to be young and our coach hated to play underclassmen. In the end we'll be much better off because not only is Wojo a more normal guy than Brent, but the team has a chip on its collective shoulders to prove how good they are given the chance. Retaining Cohen and Hill would really put us in a good spot going forward.
I will add that my view of the situation would be vastly different if we had ended up hiring Cuonzo Martin.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 03, 2014, 11:00:06 AM
would have to admit, bought the Buzz Schtick. (sp?)
(http://www.muscoop.com/Users/billb/Desktop/buzzschtick.pdf)
Quote from: Buzz'sBS on April 03, 2014, 11:59:56 AM
Buzz always talked about who "we" are and our "culture" at Marquette. He stressed loyalty and talked about his players and called them family. Most coaches don't take it to the level that Buzz did and that is why I think there is so much hatred for him. He spun a lot of bs and exposed himself as a fraud when he went to Va Tech. If he would have went to a more prestigious school, that is one thing, but to downgrade just makes him look like a big a$$.
You are correct, but that's just his schtick. That's how he liked to be perceived, and people went along with it. He's a salesman. He's not lying to us, he's just selling.
Wojo is going to have a schtick too.
If he wins, we'll eat it up with both hands (Wojo is different! Isn't he great? I love him! What a breath of fresh air!, etc)
If he loses, MU will fire him and we'll all joke about his "slapping the floor" bit.
This the the reality.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 03, 2014, 11:00:06 AM
would have to admit, bought the Buzz Schtick. (sp?)
(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y472/billberigan/buzzschtick_zps9ad9ab15.jpg)
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on April 03, 2014, 01:09:27 PM
You are correct, but that's just his schtick. That's how he liked to be perceived, and people went along with it. He's a salesman. He's not lying to us, he's just selling.
Wojo is going to have a schtick too.
If he wins, we'll eat it up with both hands (Wojo is different! Isn't he great? I love him! What a breath of fresh air!, etc)
If he loses, MU will fire him and we'll all joke about his "slapping the floor" bit.
This the the reality.
I don't think every coach has a schtick. I like to think that there are some coaches who are genuine with what they say. I know that probably isn't the norm, but they are out there. My first impressions of Wojo, are that he's a honest and genuine no nonsense type of coach. But I have been fooled before ;D
The only thing the Buzz Schtick is missing is an expiration date that is 5 years from now.
Quote from: Shack on April 03, 2014, 11:16:11 AM
Yes because I think people can accept Marquette being a stepping stone job for Indiana. But when you leave Marquette for VT it makes us look bad.
Wrong. It makes Buzz look bad. No one has come up with a logical reason as to why a guy would leave Marquette and take a pay cut to bolt to a lesser program.
Quote from: muguru on April 03, 2014, 12:32:35 PM
Look, I understand we all feel burned by Buzz, that's normal. I include myself in that category. That being said, the one comment that seems to irk people the most that I have seen is Buzz's comments on the Big East. I hate to break this to all of you but...he's NOT wrong. the conference really is garbage, when you compare it to what MU came from. I'm sorry, but that's the reality. MU took MAJOR MAJOR steps down with this new conference, and again, that's just the reality of it. I am a HUGE MU fan, but it's hard for me to ignore, and as much as I really do hate it...I can see why so many see this conference as mid major(ish). It's hard not to, when you WERE aligned with schools like Cuse, UConn, Pitt, Louisville, Cincy etc...and now you are aligned with schools like Creighton, Butler and Xavier.
I know all of you try to convince yourselves that the new BE is a really good conference, but it's simply not...and you just need to be honest with yourselves, and not try to delude yourselves into thinking it's something it isn't. I can completely understand Buzz leaving for an ACC school, even if it's the worst one than staying longer in what is truly an average ta best conference. just the way it is folks.
Agree with most of what you say here, but we have to give it time. When old BEast was formed, it started mainly with basketball lschools. There is no reason why this conference cannot be a top 5 basketball conference if the schools recruit well and it is marketed well. many of these schools have very good and rich basketball traditions.
You are not an idiot, you are a fan. You overlooked the bad and played up the good. You are not alone, and you will not be the last.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 03, 2014, 01:56:27 PM
Wrong. It makes Buzz look bad. No one has come up with a logical reason as to why a guy would leave Marquette and take a pay cut to bolt to a lesser program.
We need to start a thread for all the possible reasons, logical or not.
Quote from: Buzz'sBS on April 03, 2014, 01:20:18 PM
I don't think every coach has a schtick. I like to think that there are some coaches who are genuine with what they say. I know that probably isn't the norm, but they are out there. My first impressions of Wojo, are that he's a honest and genuine no nonsense type of coach. But I have been fooled before ;D
That's the beauty in it.
They are selling to you, without you actually knowing it. ;)
If a sales guy can engage you in a conversation before you know he's selling, he's got you.
Quote from: Benny B on April 03, 2014, 02:03:58 PM
We need to start a thread for all the possible reasons, logical or not.
Do you know that Calvin Klein makes a cologne called: Obsession ?
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 03, 2014, 02:09:16 PM
Do you know that Calvin Klein makes a cologne called: Obsession ?
He also makes a cologne called
Canis.
Quote from: Benny B on April 03, 2014, 02:19:30 PM
He also makes a cologne called Canis.
Cry Havoc!!! ...... And let slip the Dogs of War!
Quote from: warriorchick on April 03, 2014, 01:56:27 PM
Wrong. It makes Buzz look bad. No one has come up with a logical reason as to why a guy would leave Marquette and take a pay cut to bolt to a lesser program.
I was at MU for 2 degrees and 8 years. Milwaukee is not a great place to live for many people. The money is a factor but no amount of $$$ will make it seem good if it isn't good for you and your family. And the MU prez and BoT can't do anything about that.
Quote from: Montana Warrior on April 03, 2014, 02:38:35 PM
I was at MU for 2 degrees and 8 years. Milwaukee is not a great place to live for many people. The money is a factor but no amount of $$$ will make it seem good if it isn't good for you and your family. And the MU prez and BoT can't do anything about that.
If given the choice between Milwaukee and Blacksburg, VA... which do you think most people would choose?
Quote from: Benny B on April 03, 2014, 03:24:41 PM
If given the choice between Milwaukee and Blacksburg, VA... which do you think most people would choose?
Milwaukee I would hope.
Blacksburg meets the criteria for an old New England saying. "You can't get there from here."
Quote from: Montana Warrior on April 03, 2014, 02:38:35 PM
I was at MU for 2 degrees and 8 years. Milwaukee is not a great place to live for many people. The money is a factor but no amount of $$$ will make it seem good if it isn't good for you and your family. And the MU prez and BoT can't do anything about that.
If "what was best for my family" was the reason, Buzz would have said something along those lines.
Quote from: Montana Warrior on April 03, 2014, 02:38:35 PM
I was at MU for 2 degrees and 8 years. Milwaukee is not a great place to live for many people. The money is a factor but no amount of $$$ will make it seem good if it isn't good for you and your family. And the MU prez and BoT can't do anything about that.
Not sure what you are using for criteria but Milwaukee is a great place to raise a family. Maybe not at 25 th and State but there are many places in metro Milwaukee that are great places to live with a high standard of living.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 03, 2014, 05:08:27 PM
If "what was best for my family" was the reason, Buzz would have said something along those lines.
Buzz probably still reads all these posts lol. I stopped buying his crap when he never shook up the line up and made changes/had Mayo (in the begining of the year) Deonte, StJR, Dawson, JJJ etc. riding the Pine. While we were losing game after game after game..... With the people who were out there, it felt like winning was no longer important and our Used Car Salesman was on his way to VT.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 03, 2014, 01:56:27 PM
Wrong. It makes Buzz look bad. No one has come up with a logical reason as to why a guy would leave Marquette and take a pay cut to bolt to a lesser program.
Precisely, chick.
When any of my friends mentioned this since it happened, it was never: "Wow, Buzz left for Virginia Tech? What's wrong with Marquette?" It always was: "I can't believe Buzz left Marquette for Virginia Tech. What could he have been thinking?"
I don't give a rat's rump about what outsiders think anyway, but in this case, most of the negative thoughts are about our former head coach.