In following this board since Brent left for Appalachia, I've been wondering how he was able to get so much buy in for his schtick (myself included). How did so many fans overlook the assault charges; the Newbill situation; the high transfer rate; the battles with the administration? Why didn't most realize the disconnect between his preaching and practice? We had just seen evidence in Tom Crean that coaches aren't always delivering what they are selling. Perhaps winning rights all wrongs. Perhaps its just part of the human condition to buy what others are selling (TV preachers, politicians, etc).
So how do we treat Wojo now? I feel like Wojo will need to be pretty cautious in his first few years. I don't think the fanbase will take talk of family values, hard work, commitment, and "relationships" at face value at any time in the near future. But at some point MU fans will have to trust their coach again.
What is the take away for how MU fans view what their coach is saying? Treat everything as a sales pitch? Forget Brent ever existed and start fresh? Trust but verify?
Quote from: El Guerrero on April 02, 2014, 08:35:57 PM
In following this board since Brent left for Appalachia, I've been wondering how he was able to get so much buy in for his schtick (myself included). How did so many fans overlook the assault charges; the Newbill situation; the high transfer rate; the battles with the administration? Why didn't most realize the disconnect between his preaching and practice? We had just seen evidence in Tom Crean that coaches aren't always delivering what they are selling. Perhaps winning rights all wrongs. Perhaps its just part of the human condition to buy what others are selling (TV preachers, politicians, etc).
So how do we treat Wojo now? I feel like Wojo will need to be pretty cautious in his first few years. I don't think the fanbase will take talk of family values, hard work, commitment, and "relationships" at face value at any time in the near future. But at some point MU fans will have to trust their coach again.
What is the take away for how MU fans view what their coach is saying? Treat everything as a sales pitch? Forget Brent ever existed and start fresh? Trust but verify?
Because he won, until he didn't
As far as how Scoop treats Wojo... I don't know if that matters. If you cancel you season tix, stop donating, etc, then that would impact him. How you choose to view him is up to you.
In my mind, as long as the coach is good for MU and the kids, I'm "all in" behind him.
I personally didn't love Crean's way of speaking, presenting himself, etc. But he was great for MU!
I was a huge fan of Buzz's way of presenting himself (I know that's not unanimous among fans), and insofar as he was a positive for the university, that's awesome.
So same thing with Wojo - Nothing to complain about yet. Will he make mistakes? Of course. I hope he continues to push MU to new heights and does so ethically, and leaves the program better than he found it.
We Are Marquette!
Quote from: El Guerrero on April 02, 2014, 08:35:57 PM
What did Scoop learn from Brent?
That his name is actually Brett?
That there is a difference between sweet tea and ice tea.
Quote from: El Guerrero on April 02, 2014, 08:35:57 PM
I don't think the fanbase will take talk of family values, hard work, commitment, and "relationships" at face value at any time in the near future. But at some point MU fans will have to trust their coach again.
I thought Wojo was much more sincere when it came to talk about his family. Not to say Brent wasn't a good husband or father, but I always found it weird that he never talked about his family - you know, his real family before marriage. Parents, siblings.
Everyone is going to talk about their present family - wife, kids - but I appreciated that he talked about his parents and their work ethic. After 6 years of Brent, I don't even know how he was raised. One parent or two? It was almost as if that never existed.
Maybe I just missed it, but I don't recall him ever talking about it.
Quote from: brandx on April 02, 2014, 08:54:57 PM
I thought Wojo was much more sincere when it came to talk about his family. Not to say Brent wasn't a good husband or father, but I always found it weird that he never talked about his family - you know, his real family before marriage. Parents, siblings.
Everyone is going to talk about their present family - wife, kids - but I appreciated that he talked about his parents and their work ethic. After 6 years of Brent, I don't even know how he was raised. One parent or two? It was almost as if that never existed.
Maybe I just missed it, but I don't recall him ever talking about it.
You didn't miss a thing.
Those with psychology degrees can probably indicate to you that his past, as a youth, which appears in many ways to not have been his happiest days, have developed the insecure, "don't mess with happy", type guy Brett has become. He discussed it a few times, but it rarely came across as a happy past. It really seems like he had to do a lot of it all on his own; that is a testament to who he is, but those with degrees in child psychology will tell you that even those who survive such a situation are bound to be shaped by it in manners that will show themselves over and over in the future.
I actually discussed this with someone else previously. His past, including the fact that he really doesn't describe many childhood memories, is a clear shaping force for his present and for his future. It is probably the root of that hard work ethic, but also the root of that insecurity we are now likely seeing and a root of that fear of abandonment that seems to course through his "as long as they'll have me" speech.
For better or worse, we are all shaped by our childhoods, which is why it is so absolutely important to create structured and nurturing environments for our children. But, I digress.
Anyway, I am not a psychologist, but I do play one on TV and I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night, so there's that. Now time for me to drink some Scotch, since my mean dad never let me drink a drop in high school. Screw you, dad. I'll drink now and drink it good.
Quote from: MUCam on April 02, 2014, 08:48:54 PM
That his name is actually Brett?
Apologies for not following everything in the past week (I know, inexcusable for a mod), but where did this come from?
Quote from: MUCam on April 02, 2014, 09:04:42 PM
You didn't miss a thing.
Those with psychology degrees can probably indicate to you that his past, as a youth, which appears in many ways to not have been his happiest days, have developed the insecure, "don't mess with happy", type guy Brett has become. He discussed it a few times, but it rarely came across as a happy past. It really seems like he had to do a lot of it all on his own; that is a testament to who he is, but those with degrees in child psychology will tell you that even those who survive such a situation are bound to be shaped by it in manners that will show themselves over and over in the future.
I actually discussed this with someone else previously. His past, including the fact that he really doesn't describe many childhood memories, is a clear shaping force for his present and for his future. It is probably the root of that hard work ethic, but also the root of that insecurity we are now likely seeing and a root of that fear of abandonment that seems to course through his "as long as they'll have me" speech.
For better or worse, we are all shaped by our childhoods, which is why it is so absolutely important to create structured and nurturing environments for our children. But, I digress.
Anyway, I am not a psychologist, but I do play one on TV and I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night, so there's that. Now time for me to drink some Scotch, since my mean dad never let me drink a drop in high school. Screw you, dad. I'll drink now and drink it good.
Sounds like we both got screwed in the Dad department.
I wanted to get high and fornicate with cheerleaders and all he ever said was "Go to school and get a job". Ruined what could have been "the good life".
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2014, 09:09:38 PM
Apologies for not following everything in the past week (I know, inexcusable for a mod), but where did this come from?
We already miss a Brent, so now we also miss a Brett.
(http://i.imgur.com/dBMGN5H.jpg)
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 02, 2014, 09:09:38 PM
Apologies for not following everything in the past week (I know, inexcusable for a mod), but where did this come from?
Quote from: brandx on April 02, 2014, 08:54:57 PM
I thought Wojo was much more sincere when it came to talk about his family. Not to say Brent wasn't a good husband or father, but I always found it weird that he never talked about his family - you know, his real family before marriage. Parents, siblings.
Everyone is going to talk about their present family - wife, kids - but I appreciated that he talked about his parents and their work ethic. After 6 years of Brent, I don't even know how he was raised. One parent or two? It was almost as if that never existed.
Maybe I just missed it, but I don't recall him ever talking about it.
Brent = Dick Whitman
Buzz = Don Draper
We learned that nobody on this site has any inside sources whatsoever
In 5-6 years probably nothing. I hope not, but...
IT'S HAPPENING!!!!!
Quote from: MUCam on April 02, 2014, 08:48:54 PM
That his name is actually Brett?
Or.....Bert? It's getting harder to recall.
I'll never forget what's-his-name.
Quote from: MUsoxfan on April 02, 2014, 09:36:13 PM
We learned that nobody on this site has any inside sources whatsoever
lol fantastic!
Quote from: brandx on April 02, 2014, 08:54:57 PM
I thought Wojo was much more sincere when it came to talk about his family. Not to say Brent wasn't a good husband or father, but I always found it weird that he never talked about his family - you know, his real family before marriage. Parents, siblings.
Everyone is going to talk about their present family - wife, kids - but I appreciated that he talked about his parents and their work ethic. After 6 years of Brent, I don't even know how he was raised. One parent or two? It was almost as if that never existed.
Maybe I just missed it, but I don't recall him ever talking about it.
Brent was raised in a van down by the river...and he's headed back to the river.
Quote from: AZWarrior on April 02, 2014, 09:37:44 PM
Or.....Bert? It's getting harder to recall.
I'll never forget what's-his-name.
Wait, wasn't it Bazz?
I was reminded that talk is cheap.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2014, 09:31:15 PM
Brent = Dick Whitman
Buzz = Don Draper Peggy Olson
Fixed.
http://www.youtube.com/v/77Y6CIyyBcI&fs=1&source=uds
Quote from: lab_warrior on April 02, 2014, 10:26:30 PM
Fixed.
http://www.youtube.com/v/77Y6CIyyBcI&fs=1&source=uds
Exhibit No. 437 why MUScoop has killed it the past two weeks. Bravo.
Character Revealed.
http://www.gobblercountry.com/2014/3/23/5539674/virginia-tech-hokies-basketball-trevor-thompson-to-transfer-Buzz-Williams-named-new-coach
1) Don't trust people that rely on 18-22yr old young men to make you millions of dollars
2) Buzz's Bunch was\is a great program and a tip of the hat to Brent for putting his name and energies behind it
3) Crazy is crazy does
4) There are no bigger hypocrites in life than sports fans and politicians
5) See #1
6) Some people shrivel at the first sign of drama....some people create that drama and shrivel from it anyway
7) When telling your players your word is your bond and character is of the utmost, don't say stupid things like an application wasn't sent in for one of your players when everyone knows what actually happened
8) Character does reveal itself
9) In a sexual assault case, let the authorities do the talking to the parties involved
10) See #1
Quote from: brandx on April 02, 2014, 08:54:57 PM
I thought Wojo was much more sincere when it came to talk about his family. Not to say Brent wasn't a good husband or father, but I always found it weird that he never talked about his family - you know, his real family before marriage. Parents, siblings.
Everyone is going to talk about their present family - wife, kids - but I appreciated that he talked about his parents and their work ethic. After 6 years of Brent, I don't even know how he was raised. One parent or two? It was almost as if that never existed.
Maybe I just missed it, but I don't recall him ever talking about it.
x
I met him at a function my wife was invited to and he mentioned his father played in a gospel duo.
(http://gp1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/802892/production_public/Artist/1816855/image/small/1312643631_gospel_fare.jpg)
http://www.reverbnation.com/gospelfare
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=vb.114659782719&type=2
Now that I think about it.... wasn't Buzz raised by an uncle or had to take care of his blind grandfather or something? I can't put my finger on what exactly it is, but I just remember hearing him in an interview talk about that.
What I recall is his folks split up while he was a toddler. When his mother remarried he moved in with his father. I think the stepmom was ok but the stepdad was a nutter. I think that estranged him from his mother.
Amazing with the sting of rejection so prominent in his life that he would treat Taylor, JJJ, Newbill, et al the way he did. I get that the NBA is a business and so too is college ball but there is a difference in mentorship and stewardship in college that Bat seemed able to pick and choose his moments.
Quote from: keefe on April 03, 2014, 01:39:27 AM
What I recall is his folks split up while he was a toddler. When his mother remarried he moved in with his father. I think the stepmom was ok but the stepdad was a nutter. I think that estranged him from his mother.
Amazing with the sting of rejection so prominent in his life that he would treat Taylor, JJJ, Newbill, et al the way he did. I get that the NBA is a business and so too is college ball but there is a difference in mentorship and stewardship in college that Bat seemed able to pick and choose his moments.
From a psychological standpoint, Buzz may have never known the proper way to treat someone close to him. This would lie in the fact that, he never had a permanent (positive) father figure present in his formative years. It seems to me that Buzz is a tough love type of guy, but you must be ever so delicate when running an autocracy. Punishment has its ways, but long term usage will uproot any message you try to convey. Through observation, Buzz relied on punishment as his tool of reinforcement, but that planted the seeds of mutiny with this group that seemed to lack a leader all year.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 03, 2014, 01:47:49 AM
planted the seeds of mutiny with this group that seemed to lack a leader all year.
(http://classicmoviestills.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Eddie-Quillan-and-Clark-Gable-Mutiny-On-The-Bounty-1935.jpg)
Be careful with expectations... character revealed and all...
What did Scoop learn from Brent?
West Viginia plays that stupid song after every game, even if the team doesn't win.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 03, 2014, 01:47:49 AM
From a psychological standpoint, Buzz may have never known the proper way to treat someone close to him. This would lie in the fact that, he never had a permanent (positive) father figure present in his formative years.
Digressing quite a bit from the topic at hand, but I don't get the obsession with having positive *father* figure. Seems to me that it's more important to have a positive adult parental influence, period, whether it is a mother or father.
Also, go suck turkey necks Brett.
I learned that I like it when we are playing in the second week of the NCAA tournament every year.
I already knew that the public personas of coaches are often very different from their private peronas, and that they are only faithful as long as something they like better doesn't come along.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 03, 2014, 01:47:49 AM
From a psychological standpoint, Buzz may have never known the proper way to treat someone close to him. This would lie in the fact that, he never had a permanent (positive) father figure present in his formative years. It seems to me that Buzz is a tough love type of guy, but you must be ever so delicate when running an autocracy. Punishment has its ways, but long term usage will uproot any message you try to convey. Through observation, Buzz relied on punishment as his tool of reinforcement, but that planted the seeds of mutiny with this group that seemed to lack a leader all year.
Bingo!
No stable or nurturing family life -> fear of loss/rejection -> coping strategies (need to always be in control, push others away before they push you away, etc).
Psych 101.
But I thought his name was Burt?