Steve Taylor reveals truths about knee, playing timeSteve Taylor's sophomore season was an incredibly frustrating one, and it had nothing to do with how his knee was feeling. The 6-foot-8 forward from Chicago logged nine DNP's in his second season at Marquette, and logged double-digit minutes in just six of the Golden Eagles' last 26 games. During the season it was presumed [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=painttouches.com&blog=28348875&post=11658&subd=painttouches&ref=&feed=1" width="1" height="1" />
Source: Steve Taylor reveals truths about knee, playing time (http://painttouches.com/2014/04/01/steve-taylor-reveals-truths-about-knee-playing-time/)
Wow.
"I was sold on just getting away from here, and it hurt me because I like this place a lot," Taylor said. "I built a lot of relationships with people and he made it hard for me because I wasn't playing. I understand that I like going to school, but I like playing basketball. And when I'm not playing, that's hard."
I have a feeling things were WAY worse behind the scenes than any of us know.
We are blessed to have Wojo leading us now, and into the bright of future of Marquette basketball.
Bam Roasted.
Free Steve Taylor!!!!!!
I'm tellin you something blew up during/after that Jan 20th game that was the begining of the end for Buzz.
"Derrick Wilson said he expects every non-senior player on Marquette's roster will return, and it sounds as though Taylor will make the prediction come true."
Oh man. Is Juan gone? I can't imagine Todd leaving, as he is gonna be THE man.
As the news starts to come out, it makes it look more and more like buzz was told to find somewhere else to go, not really a firing but a friendly encouragement to go somewhere else. That just makes the most sense why he would bolt for such a poor program.
Quote from: MarkusSharkus on April 01, 2014, 06:22:13 PM
"Derrick Wilson said he expects every non-senior player on Marquette's roster will return, and it sounds as though Taylor will make the prediction come true."
Oh man. Is Juan gone? I can't imagine Todd leaving, as he is gonna be THE man.
I assume he means current seniors.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on April 01, 2014, 06:21:59 PM
I'm tellin you something blew up during/after that Jan 20th game that was the begining of the end for Buzz.
Refresh me again, what happened on Jan 20th?
Quote from: MarkusSharkus on April 01, 2014, 06:22:13 PM
"Derrick Wilson said he expects every non-senior player on Marquette's roster will return, and it sounds as though Taylor will make the prediction come true."
Oh man. Is Juan gone? I can't imagine Todd leaving, as he is gonna be THE man.
Think he meant this year's seniors. But never doubt Otule's ability to scrape together another year of eligibility.
think he meant as in seniors who are graduating, so everyone is coming back according to Derick
Free at last! Free at last!
I expect to hear a few more stories in the coming days. We will know pretty clearly why Buzz high-tailed it out of here so quickly without even waiting for a good job to open up.
I heard stories similar to this during the year but they were secondhand - so I wasn't going to put them here
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on April 01, 2014, 06:24:25 PM
I assume he means current seniors.
Ah...that WOULD make sense lol. I'm already thinking of the current Juniors as seniors. I've kinda jumped the shark on turning the page from this year. My bad.
For me, I knew something was up once we heard that Jerry Wainwright had told Todd to speak to Coach Buzz about playing time.
Quote from: Beer Brats Bags on April 01, 2014, 06:23:34 PM
As the news starts to come out, it makes it look more and more like buzz was told to find somewhere else to go, not really a firing but a friendly encouragement to go somewhere else. That just makes the most sense why he would bolt for such a poor program.
+1
Now that a new coach is in the fold, the stories about Brent will begin.
The next few weeks will be very interesting.
Can't wait to see him play next year. Presently my favorite Warrior.
Steve came across as a mature kid with some self reflection and perspective of a tough situation. Sad to see the former "steward" of our program fucked with him to the degree he did. Certainly hope he has a healthy off-season and is able to find a role for Wojo next season.
Wow, nice article and entertaining to say the least.
Please get an interview like this on JJJ. Like to hear that story.
+1000 - when I read that, I thought - don't assistants talk to the coach about playing time? Why would an assistant tel a player to talk to the coach about playing time?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 01, 2014, 06:25:51 PM
For me, I knew something was up once we heard that Jerry Wainwright had told Todd to speak to Coach Buzz about playing time.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on April 01, 2014, 06:41:36 PM
+1000 - when I read that, I thought - don't assistants talk to the coach about playing time? Why would an assistant tel a player to talk to the coach about playing time?
Accountability. Growing into an adult. Our club encourages the kids coming to their coaches if they have a problem with their playing time or position rather than having their parents do it for them. If you want a raise or promotion, you don't have your direct supervisor go to the person who would make that decision, you go to the person who would make that decision yourself.
No surprise...... I would have loved to see more Steve Taylor/Dawson Georgetown games and less of alot of other things.....
#GladBuzzIsGone
#FreeSteveTaylor
F U BUZZ
Things were worse than I ever could've imagined. Maybe that makes me blind I don't know, but wow. Had Buzz continued here me thinks this ship would've gone down and gone down hard.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on April 01, 2014, 06:24:25 PM
I assume he means current seniors.
Nope, all the non-graduating seniors is what he was talking about.
He expects all 9 of them to return.
Quote from: NickelDimer on April 01, 2014, 06:48:59 PM
Things were worse than I ever could've imagined. Maybe that makes me blind I don't know, but wow. Had Buzz continued here me thinks this ship would've gone down and gone down hard.
Now, Jameel Mckay jumping ship makes alot more sense to me.
Quote from: brandx on April 01, 2014, 06:25:35 PM
I expect to hear a few more stories in the coming days. We will know pretty clearly why Buzz high-tailed it out of here so quickly without even waiting for a good job to open up.
I heard stories similar to this during the year but they were secondhand - so I wasn't going to put them here
Secondhand? Thats about three less hands than half the people posted on here that Brian Wardle and Jamie Dixon were sharing a smoke on Sun. am in downtown MKE.
Kudos to you for not trying to 'break the story' like every other scooper.
(http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i56/5/7/9/frabz-Im-not-saying-its-a-conspiracy-but-its-a-conspiracy-3ac0d9.jpg)
There were a few rumors about buzz only playing seniors to upset the boosters...
Only question left is if paint touches will rebrand for wojo.
Quote from: atk13thst on April 01, 2014, 06:50:08 PM
NOW U FEEL ME!!!
Bro, I've been feeling this for 6 years and took ample crap here for it. Squirmy as hell. Next few weeks and months are going to be fun and I'm expecting a lot of people to eat some massive helpings of crow. Hell, we might even see a few people sack up and apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
Quote from: nyg on April 01, 2014, 06:40:31 PM
Wow, nice article and entertaining to say the least.
Please get an interview like this on JJJ. Like to hear that story.
And Duane about his redshirt.
So there would be no Steve, JJJ, and probably Mayo had Bazz stayed around. And we were worried about roster turnover with a new coach? Our last one had become a cancer.
Quote from: Ari Gold on April 01, 2014, 06:53:39 PM
Only question left is if paint touches will rebrand for wojo.
They already said no.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
Bro, I've been feeling this for 6 years and took ample crap here for it. Squirmy as hell. Next few weeks and months are going to be fun and I'm expecting a lot of people to eat some massive helpings of crow. Hell, we might even see a few people sack up and apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
I lurk a lot more than I post and although you sometimes seem to get in arguments with people for no reason, you definitely are right more than you are wrong.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:45:09 PM
F U BUZZ
+1000. We need to charter a bus drive down to Virginia and hunt down brent
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
Bro, I've been feeling this for 6 years and took ample crap here for it. Squirmy as hell. Next few weeks and months are going to be fun and I'm expecting a lot of people to eat some massive helpings of crow. Hell, we might even see a few people sack up and apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
What was it you didn't like? It's funny, I was talking to my brother who's a Badger fan but has no hatred towards MU. He said he never liked Buzz...there was something about his eyes he never trusted.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
Bro, I've been feeling this for 6 years and took ample crap here for it. Squirmy as hell. Next few weeks and months are going to be fun and I'm expecting a lot of people to eat some massive helpings of crow. Hell, we might even see a few people sack up and apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
+1000
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 01, 2014, 06:55:14 PM
And Duane about his redshirt.
I believe Paint Touches just tweeted that Duane was swayed to redshirt after talking to Cadougan. It said Cadougan wished he had reshirted.
I will say coming into this year I was very pro Buzz but now hearing the Taylor story and other rumbles I now believe Buzz wanted out some time ago. A team with this talent should not have struggled this way, I have been told that he had something to do with LW leaving the school. Buzz was aware of the buyout lessening with his (LW) departure and with the original buyout I am not sure he is as attractive to alot of schools. Our family has had season tickets since 1967 and my Dad is a MU Dental Grad. In those years I do not believe I have seen such a dis-connect with a coach and his players, the more he was criticized the worse Buzz seemed to get and Senior Day he did not seem like himself almost like he did not want to be there. I have heard there is more to come what a shame for such a God fearing man. I feel bad saying I am glad Buzz is gone his arrogance is second to none.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
Bro, I've been feeling this for 6 years and took ample crap here for it. Squirmy as hell. Next few weeks and months are going to be fun and I'm expecting a lot of people to eat some massive helpings of crow. Hell, we might even see a few people sack up and apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
Real talk: You, Goose and Ners are the realest posters on this board. I respect what you three guys have to say because indeed u are right almost all the time. Respect
Quote from: MarkusSharkus on April 01, 2014, 06:58:31 PM
I believe Paint Touches just tweeted that Duane was swayed to redshirt after talking to Cadougan. It said Cadougan wished he had reshirted.
Yep:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 25m
Du. Wilson said Cadougan talked to him about redshirting, and Cadougan admitted that if he could do it all over again, he would have.
And also:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 11m
Du. Wilson: "
As soon as Buzz left, I was in to stay. I'm Marquette. I'm going to be Marquette for the next 4 years." #mubb
Would anyone have stayed???
Quote from: melissasmooth on April 01, 2014, 06:57:00 PM
+1000. We need to charter a bus drive down to Virginia and hunt down brent
You gonna bring your ax ;D
Quote from: MarkusSharkus on April 01, 2014, 06:58:31 PM
I believe Paint Touches just tweeted that Duane was swayed to redshirt after talking to Cadougan. It said Cadougan wished he had reshirted.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 2m
Du. Wilson said Cadougan talked to him about redshirting, and Cadougan admitted that if he could do it all over again, he would have.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 11m
Some really good stuff on Duane Wilson, probably coming tomorrow. Kid can't wait to put a Marquette jersey on.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 14m
Mayo, on Buzz: "It didn't seem like we liked each other, but he's one of the guys that I'll always talk to the rest of my life." #mubb
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 16m
@mike_e_nelson @trebby I don't think the name is going anywhere. If we were @LionTamers or @ThrowGoodPitch maybe I'd change it.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 21m
#BANE: "I never planned on leaving. I was going to stick it out. I committed to Marquette. There was no chance of me leaving at all."
Quote from: chapman on April 01, 2014, 07:05:49 PM
Yep:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 25m
Du. Wilson said Cadougan talked to him about redshirting, and Cadougan admitted that if he could do it all over again, he would have.
And also:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 11m
Du. Wilson: "As soon as Buzz left, I was in to stay. I'm Marquette. I'm going to be Marquette for the next 4 years." #mubb
Would anyone have stayed???
Man, he says everything perfectly. He could be a politician someday lol
Quote from: chapman on April 01, 2014, 07:05:49 PM
Yep:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 25m
Du. Wilson said Cadougan talked to him about redshirting, and Cadougan admitted that if he could do it all over again, he would have.
And also:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 11m
Du. Wilson: "As soon as Buzz left, I was in to stay. I'm Marquette. I'm going to be Marquette for the next 4 years." #mubb
Would anyone have stayed???
That was one of the rumors that I referenced that I had heard during the season - multiple transfers
Quote from: Ari Gold on April 01, 2014, 06:53:39 PM
Only question left is if paint touches will rebrand for wojo.
Floor Slaps
Quote from: chapman on April 01, 2014, 07:05:49 PM
Yep:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 25m
Du. Wilson said Cadougan talked to him about redshirting, and Cadougan admitted that if he could do it all over again, he would have.
And also:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 11m
Du. Wilson: "As soon as Buzz left, I was in to stay. I'm Marquette. I'm going to be Marquette for the next 4 years." #mubb
Would anyone have stayed???
I'm gonna go ahead and give Brent a big THANK YOU for taking his talents to Blacksburg. Had he stayed the fallout would've been very painful apparently
Quote from: chapman on April 01, 2014, 07:05:49 PM
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 11m
Du. Wilson: "As soon as Buzz left, I was in to stay. I'm Marquette. I'm going to be Marquette for the next 4 years." #mubb
Am I reading this correctly ... Buzz stays at a minimum JJJ, STj and Duane all leave?
I'll trade the recruits leaving to keep these guys.
Quote from: MarkusSharkus on April 01, 2014, 06:56:39 PM
I lurk a lot more than I post and although you sometimes seem to get in arguments with people for no reason, you definitely are right more than you are wrong.
It's not what is said around here, it's who says the what. :D
I am going to go ahead and toot my own horn. After you read the thread below, I don't think you will hold it against me. Some of us knew buzz was serving us chicken sh!t when it came to STJ this year.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41599.0
Quote from: brandx on April 01, 2014, 07:06:22 PM
You gonna bring your ax ;D
Haha. I need to show better self control.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
Bro, I've been feeling this for 6 years and took ample crap here for it. Squirmy as hell. Next few weeks and months are going to be fun and I'm expecting a lot of people to eat some massive helpings of crow. Hell, we might even see a few people sack up and apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
Now, I think its also fair to point out that MU hired Buzz eyes wide open, and in fact I would suggest his "squirminess" is part of the reason he got the job. Not disagreeing at all with what you say above, but while they seemingly took steps to make him go away, I think its also fair to point out that whatever we hear in the coming days, MU's hands are not completely clean.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 01, 2014, 06:55:14 PM
And Duane about his redshirt.
"Duanes Redshirt was an MUCH easier decision based of the PT Buzz was (Not) giving the Frosh..... Most notably at the Guard position..... He's trying to make it to the league and had/has/still doesnt have any plans of sitting behind someone starting who will never play outside of a Marquette uniform"
Was what I was told. . .
It seems like Buzz leaving was best for both parties.
Next year would have messed up his career, and our program, for years to come.
Quote from: chapman on April 01, 2014, 07:05:49 PM
Yep:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 25m
Du. Wilson said Cadougan talked to him about redshirting, and Cadougan admitted that if he could do it all over again, he would have.
And also:
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 11m
Du. Wilson: "As soon as Buzz left, I was in to stay. I'm Marquette. I'm going to be Marquette for the next 4 years." #mubb
Would anyone have stayed???
Hey Hards--still naïve to believe what I said about Buzz/Duane? Hards, where are you. Tlak to people closer than you to the program. Hards, are you there?
Assuming that Virginia tech fans can read, I wonder what they are starting to think about Brett.
Quote from: NickelDimer on April 01, 2014, 06:57:08 PM
What was it you didn't like? It's funny, I was talking to my brother who's a Badger fan but has no hatred towards MU. He said he never liked Buzz...there was something about his eyes he never trusted.
I have to be careful with my answer here to protect a few relationships. I'll just say that in 2008 when it looked like we were going to hire him a very good friend of mine that is in the industry, knows MU well, knows Buzz was SHOCKED we were going to hire him. Totally floored.
Over the years, too many squirmy stories that I had heard from people I trust and know. When I say squirmy I want to be careful what that means because people here interpret things out of thin air and their conclusions are all over the board, most of them dead wrong. Let's say Buzz is a smart dude, he knows when the camera is on and he plays it like a fiddle and people eat it up. Its when the cameras are off when character is revealed.
Of course, if you mentioned these things you got cooked at the stake. People don't want to hear it about their own guy, but they can't wait to hear it about some other program's guy. Fandom.
The whole schtick thing was exactly that...a complete schtick.
The DJ Newbill stuff was so beyond the pale and it sickened me the defense so many here had for it. Ridiculous. There's other stuff and I have no doubt it is going to come out.
I commend him on Buzz's Bunch, I commend him in other ways...he was not a bad coach, in fact I think he was a solid coach. But he sure and hell didn't walk on water, he drove kids out of the program, etc. There's a reason LW is gone and more of that will come out as well.
The irony in all this, Wojo is probably exactly the hire LW would want to make.
This is all real tough for the Buzz slurpers to swallow. Man, the abuse some of us took for expressing our opinions.
Quote from: csmithjump on April 01, 2014, 07:11:38 PM
I am going to go ahead and toot my own horn. After you read the thread below, I don't think you will hold it against me. Some of us knew buzz was serving us chicken sh!t when it came to STJ this year.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41599.0
I remember this post. comment #7 i said.
"Remember when Buzz said he was gonna install the Offense.....
Insert Steve Taylor There we have it......"
Then he dissapeared for the rest of the season.
First of all, I'd like to hear Buzz interviewed about this topic by a good reporter who would not let him get away with avoiding the question. I expect it will never happen.
Second, if this is true -- and I see no reason Taylor would lie -- I am very disappointed with Buzz. Nobody likes to be misled, and he misled thousands of us. It was all so unnecessary, too. Just tell the truth: I didn't think he was our best option to use in the game.
I feel badly for Taylor and now feel glad that he probably will get a legit chance.
It doesn't mean Buzz was a bad coach for his first 5 years, though.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 07:21:16 PM
I have to be careful with my answer here to protect a few relationships. I'll just say that in 2008 when it looked like we were going to hire him a very good friend of mine that is in the industry, knows MU well, knows Buzz was SHOCKED we were going to hire him. Totally floored.
Over the years, too many squirmy stories that I had heard from people I trust and know. When I say squirmy I want to be careful what that means because people here interpret things out of thin air and their conclusions are all over the board, most of them dead wrong. Let's say Buzz is a smart dude, he knows when the camera is on and he plays it like a fiddle and people eat it up. Its when the cameras are off when character is revealed.
Of course, if you mentioned these things you got cooked at the stake. People don't want to hear it about their own guy, but they can't wait to hear it about some other program's guy. Fandom.
The whole schtick thing was exactly that...a complete schtick.
The DJ Newbill stuff was so beyond the pale and it sickened me the defense so many here had for it. Ridiculous. There's other stuff and I have no doubt it is going to come out.
I commend him on Buzz's Bunch, I commend him in other ways...he was not a bad coach, in fact I think he was a solid coach. But he sure and hell didn't walk on water, he drove kids out of the program, etc. There's a reason LW is gone and more of that will come out as well.
The irony in all this, Wojo is probably exactly the hire LW would want to make.
He wanted to spread the athletic department's wealth and Buzz wouldn't have any of it, to the point where Buzz wouldn't even let them alter his $20,000 night for Haunted Hoops and make it more cost effective so other assistant coaches within the athletic department could get paid as more than a part time employee? (This is the only point that addresses the bolded part of your post.)
He wouldn't even acknowledge Terri Mitchell when he passed her in the hallways of the Al, or any other people that weren't the AD or President of Marquette University or didn't work within the men's basketball program?
He pulled up to the front door of the Al and had his assistants drive his car over to the parking garage for him? (Not that this one is big enough to get him run out of the place, but just shows he was an egomaniac.)
He wanted to bring in any kid who could help him win basketball games regardless of grades, character issues, or whether they could reasonably graduate from Marquette University by the time their athletic clock had expired?
Things of these nature?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 07:21:16 PM
I have to be careful with my answer here to protect a few relationships. I'll just say that in 2008 when it looked like we were going to hire him a very good friend of mine that is in the industry, knows MU well, knows Buzz was SHOCKED we were going to hire him. Totally floored.
Over the years, too many squirmy stories that I had heard from people I trust and know. When I say squirmy I want to be careful what that means because people here interpret things out of thin air and their conclusions are all over the board, most of them dead wrong. Let's say Buzz is a smart dude, he knows when the camera is on and he plays it like a fiddle and people eat it up. Its when the cameras are off when character is revealed.
Of course, if you mentioned these things you got cooked at the stake. People don't want to hear it about their own guy, but they can't wait to hear it about some other program's guy. Fandom.
The whole schtick thing was exactly that...a complete schtick.
The DJ Newbill stuff was so beyond the pale and it sickened me the defense so many here had for it. Ridiculous. There's other stuff and I have no doubt it is going to come out.
I commend him on Buzz's Bunch, I commend him in other ways...he was not a bad coach, in fact I think he was a solid coach. But he sure and hell didn't walk on water, he drove kids out of the program, etc. There's a reason LW is gone and more of that will come out as well.
The irony in all this, Wojo is probably exactly the hire LW would want to make.
That's interesting. I'm surprised his reputation preceded him to that extent given his relative obscurity prior to joining Marquette. I give you credit for sticking to your guns.
No one likes feeling duped. And I sure feel duped by who I thought he was
Thanks for speaking up Steve. I know from personal experience how important Marquette University is for you. Get ready to contribute in a leadership role these next two years.
Could someone fill me in to what happened with DJ Newbill? I know who he is, but am unfamiliar with the circumstances that led to him leaving MU.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on April 01, 2014, 07:34:03 PM
Could someone fill me in to what happened with DJ Newbill? I know who he is, but am unfamiliar with the circumstances that led to him leaving MU.
He was committed to coming to MU, but we rescinded on his scholarship offer because we said that he didn't send in his application in time.
Then we recruited Jamil Wilson over him, I believe.
Basically we used a loophole to bring in what we believed to be a superior player, instead of hardening up and telling him he got Buzz Cut.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on April 01, 2014, 07:34:03 PM
Could someone fill me in to what happened with DJ Newbill? I know who he is, but am unfamiliar with the circumstances that led to him leaving MU.
Buzz offered him a Scholarship. Then pulled it away and went in another direction aka gave it to Jamil Wilson.
Total snake move....
Quote from: Nevada233 on April 01, 2014, 06:52:31 PM
Now, Jameel Mckay jumping ship makes alot more sense to me.
It shouldn't. Jameel McKay jumping ship after two practices and Steve wasting away on the bench for most of a season are quite different events.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 01, 2014, 07:35:16 PM
He was committed to coming to MU, but we rescinded on his scholarship offer because we said that he didn't send in his application in time.
Then we recruited Jamil Wilson over him, I believe.
Basically we used a loophole to bring in what we believed to be a superior player, instead of hardening up and telling him he got Buzz Cut.
Is that a FACT or RUMOR?
Thats shady if true
Quote from: atk13thst on April 01, 2014, 07:40:12 PM
Is that a FACT or RUMOR?
Thats shady if true
Everyone on scoop knows this.
Quote from: atk13thst on April 01, 2014, 07:40:12 PM
Is that a FACT or RUMOR?
Thats shady if true
DONE DEAL
I understand that we probably had blinders on to most of the issues during buzz's time, but let's not go crazy and make him out to be some kind of monster. For each Steve Taylor/Duane Wilson there was a jimmy butler, junior cadougan or Chris otule who considered buzz like a dad and had his loyalty. He helped a lot of guys achieve their goals and won a lot of games too. Also stuck up for some guys we all wanted run out of town...
If nothing else, lets just thank him for his service, accept that he wasn't exactly who we hoped he would be and move on, and Hope the players can do the same....
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 07:10:53 PM
It's not what is said around here, it's who says the what. :D
Sometimes it's the who, sometimes it's the what, and sometimes it's the how. ;)
I'm in the camp of those who supported Marquette and Buzz through ups and downs for 5 years, and was puzzled and didn't know how to feel about Buzz the last half of this year. That's changed.
Of course, that isn't anything to apologize for.
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on April 01, 2014, 07:46:21 PM
Of course, that isn't anything to apologize for.
Don't tell that to Willie
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 07:21:16 PM
I have to be careful with my answer here to protect a few relationships. I'll just say that in 2008 when it looked like we were going to hire him a very good friend of mine that is in the industry, knows MU well, knows Buzz was SHOCKED we were going to hire him. Totally floored.
Over the years, too many squirmy stories that I had heard from people I trust and know. When I say squirmy I want to be careful what that means because people here interpret things out of thin air and their conclusions are all over the board, most of them dead wrong. Let's say Buzz is a smart dude, he knows when the camera is on and he plays it like a fiddle and people eat it up. Its when the cameras are off when character is revealed.
Of course, if you mentioned these things you got cooked at the stake. People don't want to hear it about their own guy, but they can't wait to hear it about some other program's guy. Fandom.
The whole schtick thing was exactly that...a complete schtick.
The DJ Newbill stuff was so beyond the pale and it sickened me the defense so many here had for it. Ridiculous. There's other stuff and I have no doubt it is going to come out.
I commend him on Buzz's Bunch, I commend him in other ways...he was not a bad coach, in fact I think he was a solid coach. But he sure and hell didn't walk on water, he drove kids out of the program, etc. There's a reason LW is gone and more of that will come out as well.
The irony in all this, Wojo is probably exactly the hire LW would want to make.
That was one thing that was rotten from the start.....and Jamil never really was the player we all thought he would be.
Quote from: MarkusSharkus on April 01, 2014, 07:44:14 PM
Everyone on scoop knows this.
It was a sad story, I remember him in High School he played at Strawberry Mansion in Philly.... I live bout an hr from PA.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Did-Marquette-put-winning-before-ethics-by-cutti?urn=ncaab,252690
We pulled his scholarship so late most of the other schools had their scholarships filled so he couldnt get a good school to take him. Then he had to go play at Southern Miss for a year, transfer to Penn state sit out for a Year (Redshirt) and before his Mom could see him play...... At Penn State, She died after a short battle with Cancer.....
Sad sad story.
All for Jamil who looked like Tarzan physically and Played more like Jane in his Senior Year.....
Thanks Buzz
Quote from: Nevada233 on April 01, 2014, 07:54:33 PM
It was a sad story, I remember him in High School he played at Strawberry Mansion in Philly.... I live bout an hr from PA.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Did-Marquette-put-winning-before-ethics-by-cutti?urn=ncaab,252690
We pulled his scholarship so late most of the other schools had their scholarships filled so he couldnt get a good school to take him. Then he had to go play at Southern Miss for a year, transfer to Penn state sit out for a Year (Redshirt) and before his Mom could see him play...... At Penn State, She died after a short battle with Cancer.....
Sad sad story.
All for Jamil who looked like Tarzan physically and Played more like Jane when it mattered most.
Thanks Buzz
Especially towards the end of that Davidson game that propelled us to an Elite Eight last year...
If Buzz was such a bad dude "squirmy" why did he go out of his way to write my friend, who is a big MU fan and whose husband has cancer, a great letter after I wrote him and let him know about thier situation. And then continue to correspond with her. I can't imagine someone who wouldn't acknowledge the woman's coach in the hallway would do that. He may have messed with Taylor, but I've got to stick up for him because he really didn't have to do that and he did.
I don't believe it was total schtick. Would love to hear what Homer thinks.
Quote from: JTBMU7 on April 01, 2014, 07:44:50 PM
I understand that we probably had blinders on to most of the issues during buzz's time,
Let's face it, blinders are every college sports fan's best friend.
Quote from: Nevada233 on April 01, 2014, 07:54:33 PM
It was a sad story, I remember him in High School he played at Strawberry Mansion in Philly.... I live bout an hr from PA.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Did-Marquette-put-winning-before-ethics-by-cutti?urn=ncaab,252690
We pulled his scholarship so late most of the other schools had their scholarships filled so he couldnt get a good school to take him. Then he had to go play at Southern Miss for a year, transfer to Penn state sit out for a Year (Redshirt) and before his Mom could see him play...... At Penn State, She died after a short battle with Cancer.....
Sad sad story.
All for Jamil who looked like Tarzan physically and Played more like Jane in his Senior Year.....
Thanks Buzz
Wooooow I hate Brent even more after reading that!!
Quote from: BW221 on April 01, 2014, 08:00:18 PM
If Buzz was such a bad dude "squirmy" why did he go out of his way to write my friend, who is a big MU fan and whose husband has cancer, a great letter after I wrote him and let him know about thier situation. And then continue to correspond with her. I can't imagine someone who wouldn't acknowledge the woman's coach in the hallway would do that. He may have messed with Taylor, but I've got to stick up for him because he really didn't have to do that and he did.
I don't believe it was total schtick. Would love to hear what Homer thinks.
Buzz The Man has done wonderful things for people, we can't deny that. Then there was Buzz The Coach. Two different people.
Quote from: atk13thst on April 01, 2014, 07:40:12 PM
Is that a FACT or RUMOR?
Thats shady if true
You aren't allowed to question me until you have at least 2000 posts.
Chiggity check yo self before you wreck yo self.
Quote from: BW221 on April 01, 2014, 08:00:18 PM
If Buzz was such a bad dude "squirmy" why did he go out of his way to write my friend, who is a big MU fan and whose husband has cancer, a great letter after I wrote him and let him know about thier situation. And then continue to correspond with her. I can't imagine someone who wouldn't acknowledge the woman's coach in the hallway would do that. He may have messed with Taylor, but I've got to stick up for him because he really didn't have to do that and he did.
I don't believe it was total schtick. Would love to hear what Homer thinks.
All of this bashing, and I forgot that my dad sent him a letter from Indy a few years ago and Buzz signed a picture my dad sent and sent it back to me with a little note.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
Bro, I've been feeling this for 6 years and took ample crap here for it. Squirmy as hell. Next few weeks and months are going to be fun and I'm expecting a lot of people to eat some massive helpings of crow. Hell, we might even see a few people sack up and apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
Chicos,
I've never been one to bash you here, but I have a problem with what you're expecting here. You seem to have more inside info than others on this board and have based your opinion on Buzz based on that knowledge. Since you haven't shared this information how can you expect others, with less information than you, to come to the same conclusions and apologize for forming their own opinions based on their knowledge?
I will say with 100% confidence we have a better person as our head coach now than we did two weeks ago.
That was true 6 years ago, too.
Here is a question, what as a community of students, alums, fans etc are we willing to accept as far as running a program. I have heard from different people that Buzz was less than squeaky clean. My old roommate, an MU alum and a really good basketball coach who runs a high level AAU, said that of all people Ben Howland called Buzz the biggest cheater in college basketball this was 2 or 3 years ago and Howland didn't know that my old roomie was an MU guy. You hear stories about Calipari at Kentucky and about John Wall getting 500k to attend UK. I am really naïve when it comes to this sort of thing, I really wanted and did to a large degree buy into Buzz's schtick. What is it that "we" accept, is it strictly by the book and in the spirit of the NCAA rules or do we look the other way when an AAU/Uncle/Friend of a top recruit gets a sweet job when tat recruit commits to MU? To be honest if we do right by the kids I think we do not put the program at a competitive disadvantage by adhering to the letter of the law. Ethics 101 and 105 I think, discuss.
Quote from: EnderWiggen on April 01, 2014, 07:49:23 PM
Don't tell that to Willie
He is the only scooper I have on ignore, so...
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on April 01, 2014, 08:37:16 PM
He is the only scooper I have on ignore, so...
Ditto. I took NERs off once the season ended.
Wow is right. Can't wait to hear other stories (if they're "allowed" to come out). However, I feel with Wojo now at the helm, these players that were held back will just explode next year and show us what they didn't get to show us this year due to Buzz. They all must feel refreshed and I bet they can't wait for next season to start. It will be fun.
Quote from: willie warrior on April 01, 2014, 07:17:36 PM
Hey Hards--still naïve to believe what I said about Buzz/Duane? Hards, where are you. Tlak to people closer than you to the program. Hards, are you there?
http://painttouches.com/2014/04/01/duane-wilson-confident-he-made-the-correct-decision-redshirting/
Wait, Duane is confident that HE made the right decision.
And you're still going after this? Oh willie.
Quote from: melissasmooth on April 01, 2014, 07:21:06 PM
Assuming that Virginia tech fans can read, I wonder what they are starting to think about Brett.
You do know Virginia Tech is ranked above us in almost every category but basketball right?
wow...what a thread. Am I the only one who remembers that Buzz took us to 3 straight sweet 16s (including and elite)? Prior to that run we had been to the round of 16 only twice since '77.
Looks like it was a well timed departure for both parties, but from a basketball perspective Buzz was not bad for the program. I don't have the inside connections needed to comment on the other stuff.
Quote from: Nevada233 on April 01, 2014, 07:54:33 PM
It was a sad story, I remember him in High School he played at Strawberry Mansion in Philly.... I live bout an hr from PA.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Did-Marquette-put-winning-before-ethics-by-cutti?urn=ncaab,252690
We pulled his scholarship so late most of the other schools had their scholarships filled so he couldnt get a good school to take him. Then he had to go play at Southern Miss for a year, transfer to Penn state sit out for a Year (Redshirt) and before his Mom could see him play...... At Penn State, She died after a short battle with Cancer.....
Sad sad story.
All for Jamil who looked like Tarzan physically and Played more like Jane in his Senior Year.....
Thanks Buzz
Let's not forget Buzz is the same guy who gave zero minutes to a kid from New Mexico when we played them and his parents traveled hours on end to make he game. A complete ego maniac.
Quote from: JTBMU7 on April 01, 2014, 07:44:50 PM
I understand that we probably had blinders on to most of the issues during buzz's time, but let's not go crazy and make him out to be some kind of monster. For each Steve Taylor/Duane Wilson there was a jimmy butler, junior cadougan or Chris otule who considered buzz like a dad and had his loyalty. He helped a lot of guys achieve their goals and won a lot of games too. Also stuck up for some guys we all wanted run out of town...
If nothing else, lets just thank him for his service, accept that he wasn't exactly who we hoped he would be and move on, and Hope the players can do the same....
Agreed. While this is mildly entertaining and vindicating for some, I don't want to hear too much more about this after today or at least this week. We have a new coach now. Hopefully, with a more honest persona that will elevate our program in that regard. Let's focus on the future and not live too much in the past.
Quote from: willie warrior on April 01, 2014, 07:22:21 PM
This is all real tough for the Buzz slurpers to swallow. Man, the abuse some of us took for expressing our opinions.
It wasn't the expressing of opinions. It was the manner of how those opinions were expressed.
To paraphrase Chicos "It's not what is said, it is how it is said."
Buzz did many squirmy things. Most of which very few of us knew about until recently. But he did many wonderful things. As I look at the score right now, the positives still outweigh the negatives
I am curious to see what this thread would have looked like had Buzz stayed and Taylor transferred.
Quote from: insidetheleague on April 01, 2014, 09:14:34 PM
I am curious to see what this thread would have looked like had Buzz stayed and Taylor transferred.
Good point.
I would say you rarely see how the sausage is made. At the end of the day you want to have capable players in the best situation for them. I always thought that was happening -- turns out maybe - maybe not.
Fact is fans - even the passionate that are on scoop don't know these stories. So its hard to judge -- and even harder when there is success on the court to blind you about what is happening. Big time basketball is a rough place -- looks like we get a glimpse into it over the next few weeks.
What a bunch of vultures - all of you. Cripes, let the dead bury the dead
Buzz always had his quirks, but they got worse when the team was not successful on the court. The losing made his quirks worse and the worse his quirks got the worse the team got. I always like to see how coaches react when they are losing. I always thought Crean was a poor loser. Coaches like Izzo, K and the Wichita St coach all sounded so positive after this year's NCAA loss and you can see why they are successful team builders.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 01, 2014, 09:19:07 PM
Good point.
I would say you rarely see how the sausage is made. At the end of the day you want to have capable players in the best situation for them. I always thought that was happening -- turns out maybe - maybe not.
Fact is fans - even the passionate that are on scoop don't know these stories. So its hard to judge -- and even harder when there is success on the court to blind you about what is happening. Big time basketball is a rough place -- looks like we get a glimpse into it over the next few weeks.
I agree with everything you said but this. The most important thing to coaches and fans alike are Ws. Obviously when you have 13-15 athletes on a team where only 5 play at a time, players are not going to play. When they transfer out, fans jump on them even if the player speaks his mind. "He's not tough enough to play here" I've seen that more than a few times here. At the end of the day, fans want what is best for THEM. There's nothing wrong with that.
Just an FYI..I did not go to Marquette, and I'm not a Marquette fan. I have/had several close ties to the program with both the players and coaching staff and that is why I have a hard time seeing threads like this one.
Quote from: VegasWarrior77 on April 01, 2014, 07:07:00 PM
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 2m
Du. Wilson said Cadougan talked to him about redshirting, and Cadougan admitted that if he could do it all over again, he would have.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 11m
Some really good stuff on Duane Wilson, probably coming tomorrow. Kid can't wait to put a Marquette jersey on.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 14m
Mayo, on Buzz: "It didn't seem like we liked each other, but he's one of the guys that I'll always talk to the rest of my life." #mubb
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 16m
@mike_e_nelson @trebby I don't think the name is going anywhere. If we were @LionTamers or @ThrowGoodPitch maybe I'd change it.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches 21m
#BANE: "I never planned on leaving. I was going to stick it out. I committed to Marquette. There was no chance of me leaving at all."
Have to say this really surprised me.
Quote from: insidetheleague on April 01, 2014, 09:42:39 PM
I agree with everything you said but this. The most important thing to coaches and fans alike are Ws. Obviously when you have 13-15 athletes on a team where only 5 play at a time, players are not going to play. When they transfer out, fans jump on them even if the player speaks his mind. "He's not tough enough to play here" I've seen that more than a few times here. At the end of the day, fans want what is best for THEM. There's nothing wrong with that.
Just an FYI..I did not go to Marquette, and I'm not a Marquette fan. I have/had several close ties to the program with both the players and coaching staff and that is why I have a hard time seeing threads like this one.
Maybe I have been beaten down by the corporate culture. I agree with what you say, but when players leave and log mins at lesser institutions I feel good for them.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
Bro, I've been feeling this for 6 years and took ample crap here for it. Squirmy as hell. Next few weeks and months are going to be fun and I'm expecting a lot of people to eat some massive helpings of crow. Hell, we might even see a few people sack up and apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
Come on Chicos, this is BS.
You haven't been saying FU to Buzz for 6 years like this post insinuates. In fact, you were always very quick to feign shock and take offense when anyone would accuse you of attacking Buzz. How many times did you use the defense that you weren't attacking Buzz, only pointing out the hypocrisy of other posters, or asking questions.
A few weeks / months ago you couldn't understand why people would interpret your comments as anti-Buzz, now you want everyone to recognize that you were anti-Buzz for 6 years. The reality is, you wouldn't have dared say "FU Buzz" on this board a few months ago because it would have destroyed your well crafted facade. Now you are trying to act like this was your position all along so you can come charging down from your moral high ground to lead the other jackals in a feeding frenzy on Buzz's carcass. I hope you are enjoying it.
I have often agreed with you in the past and never considered myself one of the Chicos haters, but this stuff is starting to change my mind.
Quote from: Texas Western on April 01, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
Let's not forget Buzz is the same guy who gave zero minutes to a kid from New Mexico when we played them and his parents traveled hours on end to make he game. A complete ego maniac.
Yea, They Drove to Vegas for a DNP... While Cullen Neal goes off for a Career High against our world beater defense.
Egomania reigns supreme...... I miss him none.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 01, 2014, 08:57:27 PM
You do know Virginia Tech is ranked above us in almost every category but basketball right?
US News Rankings
VT= 4 way tie for 69th (with Rutgers, Texas A&M and Minnesota)
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/virginia-tech-3754
Then Michigan State and Iowa tied at #73
MU is tied with 6 other schools for 75 (American, Baylor, Clark, Indiana, Miami of Ohio and Delaware)
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/marquette-university-3863
If you want to confuse VT with Harvard go ahead. But I would say the difference between a 4 way tie for 69 and a 7 way tie for 75 is really not that different at all.
BusinessWeek undergraduate business schools (because it is free)
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/rankings#5
MU #77 of 200 national universities
VT not ranked
Chicos Favorite metric ... endowment
MU $400 million
VT $580 million
It is not ranked above us in almost every category except basketball. It is ranked above us in engineering. Exclude that and MU comes ahead in most of the other categories except endowment size.
Eh - enjoying learning more about Buzz through this thread, but it's always a losing proposition to set out to put someone in the box of good or bad all the time either.
I'd also reached out to Buzz via email, and received much more than I deserved in terms of a thoughtful, valuable response.
None of us know him fully.
Bottom Line: Thrilled to have Wojo here. For whatever reason, Buzz and MU was not a fit anymore.
Thanks Buzz for the first 5 years!
Quote from: Ganzer's Source on April 01, 2014, 10:22:58 PM
None of us know him fully.
Bottom Line: Thrilled to have Wojo here. For whatever reason, Buzz and MU was not a fit anymore.
Thanks Buzz for the first 5 years!
This.
Quote from: bilsu on April 01, 2014, 09:31:59 PM
Buzz always had his quirks, but they got worse when the team was not successful on the court. The losing made his quirks worse and the worse his quirks got the worse the team got. I always like to see how coaches react when they are losing. I always thought Crean was a poor loser. Coaches like Izzo, K and the Wichita St coach all sounded so positive after this year's NCAA loss and you can see why they are successful team builders.
Yep, Buzz's quirkiness caught up to him.
When the times were good, he was on his game. Positive, fun to be around. He had a number of good years.
This year, when times were tough, he got weird.
Charactered revealed.
I have a very good friend in the AD that told me that Buzz AND Corey would scour the Internet for anything negative about Buzz. Likely, he is reading this thread. ;D
GO WARRIORS!!!!!!
Hi Buzz and Hello NSA as well.
Quote from: real chili 83 on April 01, 2014, 10:25:41 PM
Yep, Buzz's quirkiness caught up to him.
When the times were good, he was on his game. Positive, fun to be around. He had a number of good years.
This year, when times were tough, he got weird.
Charactered revealed.
I have a very good friend in the AD that told me that Buzz AND Corey would scour the Internet for anything negative about Buzz. Likely, he is reading this thread. ;D
GO WARRIORS!!!!!!
I think I'm going blind reading so many threads and posts about everything but I thought I saw that Buzz's buyout dropped to $100,000 when the AD resigned? I was wondering why Buzz's buyout was so low and this would explain it. I wonder if Buzz thought he won the war when LW resigned but the school knew then that Buzz's fate was sealed and they wanted to cut ties. It seems to me if any responsible institution looks at their high revenue programs and see they are going down a path where the coach's power is reaching a point where you can't rein him in you're on a slippery slope (see Florida football and PSU football-extreme eg with JoPa).The university has a responsibility, if a coach is getting to that point where he feels he's teflon that you, as the school higher ups, have to bounce the coach because your priority is the school, and the student body which is more important than 1 team sport regardless of revenue. Unfortunately, I'm sure more often than not a lot of schools will overlook certain indiscretions because the almighty $ seems to blind people and some feel they are too far down the path to pull the trigger and do the right thing. When you're the highest paid employee at a University a lot of coaches are bound to think they are above their own superiors. In a roundabout way, I wonder if Buzz's buyout dropping after AD departure was in the contract as a safety measure for the school to make him more attractive to rivals to poach him therefore removing the problem for MU. Wojo has a clean rep and gives MU a fresh start. Here's hoping MU continues to be a great bball program that does it the right way. $ and power can always change people but you never know until they have it. God forbid if they get $, power and the donuts too though.
Quote from: savwa on April 02, 2014, 12:53:09 AM
I think I'm going blind reading so many threads and posts about everything but I thought I saw that Buzz's buyout dropped to $100,000 when the AD resigned? I was wondering why Buzz's buyout was so low and this would explain it. I wonder if Buzz thought he won the war when LW resigned but the school knew then that Buzz's fate was sealed and they wanted to cut ties. It seems to me if any responsible institution looks at their high revenue programs and see they are going down a path where the coach's power is reaching a point where you can't rein him in you're on a slippery slope (see Florida football and PSU football-extreme eg with JoPa).The university has a responsibility, if a coach is getting to that point where he feels he's teflon that you, as the school higher ups, have to bounce the coach because your priority is the school, and the student body which is more important than 1 team sport regardless of revenue. Unfortunately, I'm sure more often than not a lot of schools will overlook certain indiscretions because the almighty $ seems to blind people and some feel they are too far down the path to pull the trigger and do the right thing. When you're the highest paid employee at a University a lot of coaches are bound to think they are above their own superiors. In a roundabout way, I wonder if Buzz's buyout dropping after AD departure was in the contract as a safety measure for the school to make him more attractive to rivals to poach him therefore removing the problem for MU. Wojo has a clean rep and gives MU a fresh start. Here's hoping MU continues to be a great bball program that does it the right way. $ and power can always change people but you never know until they have it. God forbid if they get $, power and the donuts too though.
I highly doubt that. I'm willing to bet that's a standard clause put in by the coach in case he doesn't like the new AD. Mu could've made it known they were willing to reduce the buyout to buzz's agent if they wanted him out bad enough.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 01, 2014, 08:42:26 PM
http://painttouches.com/2014/04/01/duane-wilson-confident-he-made-the-correct-decision-redshirting/
Wait, Duane is confident that HE made the right decision.
And you're still going after this? Oh willie.
As I said, talk to people close to the program Hards. He made the "right" decision like Buzz made the right decision. You should investigate things, but do it without the blinders.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 01, 2014, 09:13:28 PM
It wasn't the expressing of opinions. It was the manner of how those opinions were expressed.
To paraphrase Chicos "It's not what is said, it is how it is said."
Buzz did many squirmy things. Most of which very few of us knew about until recently. But he did many wonderful things. As I look at the score right now, the positives still outweigh the negatives
A real cop out for the rudeness--"The manner of how these opinions were expressed". Now we have gotten to: I don't like the way you said that so you are an idiot. But you do have that right. When people start basing those things on "manner in which it is expressed" which is totally subjective, that creates further problems. But hey, it is a message board where we all hide behind our board names and can slam anybody with namecalling and rudeness for whatever reason.
And since you are keeping score I am glad to know that Buzz's positives outweigh the negatives. Could it be that you hand is on that scale?
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 01, 2014, 07:09:44 PM
Am I reading this correctly ... Buzz stays at a minimum JJJ, STj and Duane all leave?
I'll trade the recruits leaving to keep these guys.
Duane wasn't going to leave. You guys are misreading the quote.
Quote from: Ganzer's Source on April 01, 2014, 10:22:58 PM
None of us know him fully.
Bottom Line: Thrilled to have Wojo here. For whatever reason, Buzz and MU was not a fit anymore.
Thanks Buzz for the first 5 years!
Agree. Time to move on.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
Bro, I've been feeling this for 6 years and took ample crap here for it. Squirmy as hell. Next few weeks and months are going to be fun and I'm expecting a lot of people to eat some massive helpings of crow. Hell, we might even see a few people sack up and apologize, but I won't hold my breath.
i'll give my best chico's impersonation.
look, i don't argue that he's a prick...i've admitted this, but you can't argue what he did for MU wasn't positive. i mean people aren't being as hard on KO and TC as they are on buzz. it's just ridiculous to listen to so many fans be so hypocritical. the guy took us to 2 S16's and an E8. he ushered us through a time when we could have dropped back into conference USA status, but we managed to pick up a sweet TV deal and stay relevant in the new Big East. look at his former players like jimmy, jae, DJO, and even mayo. they don't seem to have a problem with him at all. and when he left, it wasn't like he left us with some other prick/squirmy assistant to fill his role.
Quote from: willie warrior on April 02, 2014, 06:36:37 AM
As I said, talk to people close to the program Hards. He made the "right" decision like Buzz made the right decision. You should investigate things, but do it without the blinders.
you don't talk to anyone close to the program...if you did you wouldn't post half of the dumb stuff you do.
Quote from: JimmyB! on April 02, 2014, 06:50:54 AM
Duane wasn't going to leave. You guys are misreading the quote.
Duane was very unhappy this year and was contemplating transferring. Fact.
Quote from: MarkusSharkus on April 01, 2014, 06:58:31 PM
I believe Paint Touches just tweeted that Duane was swayed to redshirt after talking to Cadougan. It said Cadougan wished he had reshirted.
In the end he didn't think the 6 minutes of PT were worth it? I could have told him that 5 years ago. Dumbest waste of a year ever.
Quote from: willie warrior on April 02, 2014, 06:36:37 AM
As I said, talk to people close to the program Hards. He made the "right" decision like Buzz made the right decision. You should investigate things, but do it without the blinders.
lmao dude. whatever. If you can't read then I can't help you.
Quote from: willie warrior on April 02, 2014, 06:46:43 AM
A real cop out for the rudeness--"The manner of how these opinions were expressed". Now we have gotten to: I don't like the way you said that so you are an idiot. But you do have that right. When people start basing those things on "manner in which it is expressed" which is totally subjective, that creates further problems. But hey, it is a message board where we all hide behind our board names and can slam anybody with namecalling and rudeness for whatever reason.
And since you are keeping score I am glad to know that Buzz's positives outweigh the negatives. Could it be that you hand is on that scale?
Really think Willie. Have I ever once called you an idiot? Or anything for that matter? I think the worst I ever said was agreeing with someone else who called you a negative nancy. I disagree with you tooth and nail, but I don't think I ever dissolved into name calling. If I did and I'm forgetting, I apologize.
Other posters, absolutely. They were rude. But I don't speak for them.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 07:10:53 PM
It's not what is said around here, it's who says the what. :D
It's not what someone says. It is how much arrogance and 20/20 hindsight come along with the statement.
Honestly, it's starting to look more and more like Buzz sabotaged this season so it ended ASAP and he could accelerate the inevitable process of getting him out of town. I'd love to hear his side of the Steve story. I'm sure it would be filled with a bunch of crap, but I want to hear it from him.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 02, 2014, 10:16:23 AM
Really think Willie. Have I ever once called you an idiot? Or anything for that matter? I think the worst I ever said was agreeing with someone else who called you a negative nancy. I disagree with you tooth and nail, but I don't think I ever dissolved into name calling. If I did and I'm forgetting, I apologize.
Other posters, absolutely. They were rude. But I don't speak for them.
OK, peace brother. My point was not that you specifically called me an idiot--that others react that way when they do not agree with somebody's opinion--and there are a number on this board that do that. BTW, if you disagree with me tooth and nail, that is your business and I respect that, but my analysis of Buzzo was spot on. I stand by every thing I said, and most of it is now being proven out. To get paid the cash he was making and pulling the stuff he was pulling was inexcusable. If you disagree with that...well what more can I say.
At any rate, I am liking what I see so far on Wojo, but it is very early in the process. My opinion is that he was likely a 4th or 5th choice and was hired for his perceived recruiting ability--which is important. So the jury on recruiting and in game coaching is still out. Hope he succeeds, but it does get frustrating that we continue to go the asst. coach route.
Quote from: willie warrior on April 02, 2014, 11:29:50 AM
OK, peace brother. My point was not that you specifically called me an idiot--that others react that way when they do not agree with somebody's opinion--and there are a number on this board that do that. BTW, if you disagree with me tooth and nail, that is your business and I respect that, but my analysis of Buzzo was spot on. I stand by every thing I said, and most of it is now being proven out. To get paid the cash he was making and pulling the stuff he was pulling was inexcusable. If you disagree with that...well what more can I say.
At any rate, I am liking what I see so far on Wojo, but it is very early in the process. My opinion is that he was likely a 4th or 5th choice and was hired for his perceived recruiting ability--which is important. So the jury on recruiting and in game coaching is still out. Hope he succeeds, but it does get frustrating that we continue to go the asst. coach route.
We continue to go the assistant coach route, but it's proven to be the correct route in retrospect hasn't it?
Quote from: windyplayer on April 02, 2014, 11:25:38 AM
Honestly, it's starting to look more and more like Buzz sabotaged this season so it ended ASAP and he could accelerate the inevitable process of getting him out of town. I'd love to hear his side of the Steve story. I'm sure it would be filled with a bunch of crap, but I want to hear it from him.
"This year was about getting better for Steve. Getting better as a person. I love Steve. In fact I care about him so much that I couldn't stand to be apart from him during the game. That is why I kept him with me on the bench."
Quote from: windyplayer on April 02, 2014, 11:25:38 AM
Honestly, it's starting to look more and more like Buzz sabotaged this season so it ended ASAP and he could accelerate the inevitable process of getting him out of town.
If you were looking for another coaching job, wouldn't you want to maximize your market value by having a great, winning season?
Quote from: slack00 on April 02, 2014, 11:33:10 AM
We continue to go the assistant coach route, but it's proven to be the correct route in retrospect hasn't it?
Depends how you view it. I think it was relatively correct with Crean, we did get about 10 years out of him, bet he also had some lean years, and the way he left was not desirable. Buzz had some very good years but this year was a total loss and he created some damage, a lot that may never come out. It was not correct in his situation.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 02, 2014, 11:40:09 AM
If you were looking for another coaching job, wouldn't you want to maximize your market value by having a great, winning season?
And also have your buddies publish article after article of feel good stories...
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 02, 2014, 11:40:09 AM
If you were looking for another coaching job, wouldn't you want to maximize your market value by having a great, winning season?
Agreed.
It seems to me that the Freshmen couldn't get the defense down. This team didn't have any chance to win without defense. Buzz was thinking short term, by playing upperclassmen who were fluent in the system. In his mind, that gave him the better chance to win immediately rather than take lumps with inexperienced players. Of course, this mentality hurts the program long term, because you're not giving your freshmen any experience. Buzz, obviously, didn't care about the long term effects. Of course, the frustration of having less talented seniors/juniors led to the loss of the team's underclassmen. With a mutiny on his hands, Buzz became impatient which led to crazy substitution patterns. Had he been more consistent with underclassmen, in the beginning of the year, there's a chance they may have bought in/figured it out/more confidence in March. At least that is my theory, from what I have read.
Quote from: avid1010 on April 02, 2014, 07:15:22 AM
i'll give my best chico's impersonation.
look, i don't argue that he's a prick...i've admitted this, but you can't argue what he did for MU wasn't positive. i mean people aren't being as hard on KO and TC as they are on buzz. it's just ridiculous to listen to so many fans be so hypocritical. the guy took us to 2 S16's and an E8. he ushered us through a time when we could have dropped back into conference USA status, but we managed to pick up a sweet TV deal and stay relevant in the new Big East. look at his former players like jimmy, jae, DJO, and even mayo. they don't seem to have a problem with him at all. and when he left, it wasn't like he left us with some other prick/squirmy assistant to fill his role.
Wow, well done. Must have been difficult to get into such a dark headspace to write this. Thanks for doing us the service.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 02, 2014, 12:07:59 PM
Agreed.
It seems to me that the Freshmen couldn't get the defense down. This team didn't have any chance to win without defense. Buzz was thinking short term, by playing upperclassmen who were fluent in the system. In his mind, that gave him the better chance to win immediately rather than take lumps with inexperienced players. Of course, this mentality hurts the program long term, because you're not giving your freshmen any experience. Buzz, obviously, didn't care about the long term effects. Of course, the frustration of having less talented seniors/juniors led to the loss of the team's underclassmen. With a mutiny on his hands, Buzz became impatient which led to crazy substitution patterns. Had he been more consistent with underclassmen, in the beginning of the year, there's a chance they may have bought in/figured it out/more confidence in March. At least that is my theory, from what I have read.
+1 agree
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 02, 2014, 12:07:59 PM
Agreed.
It seems to me that the Freshmen couldn't get the defense down. This team didn't have any chance to win without defense. Buzz was thinking short term, by playing upperclassmen who were fluent in the system. In his mind, that gave him the better chance to win immediately rather than take lumps with inexperienced players. Of course, this mentality hurts the program long term, because you're not giving your freshmen any experience. Buzz, obviously, didn't care about the long term effects. Of course, the frustration of having less talented seniors/juniors led to the loss of the team's underclassmen. With a mutiny on his hands, Buzz became impatient which led to crazy substitution patterns. Had he been more consistent with underclassmen, in the beginning of the year, there's a chance they may have bought in/figured it out/more confidence in March. At least that is my theory, from what I have read.
True and baffling ... the freshmen couldn't master Buzz' complicated defensive scheme, so they sat. But Buzz' defensive scheme was ineffective.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2014/03/marquette-and-priorities-part-four.html (http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2014/03/marquette-and-priorities-part-four.html)
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 02, 2014, 12:07:59 PM
Agreed.
It seems to me that the Freshmen couldn't get the defense down. This team didn't have any chance to win without defense. Buzz was thinking short term, by playing upperclassmen who were fluent in the system. In his mind, that gave him the better chance to win immediately rather than take lumps with inexperienced players. Of course, this mentality hurts the program long term, because you're not giving your freshmen any experience. Buzz, obviously, didn't care about the long term effects. Of course, the frustration of having less talented seniors/juniors led to the loss of the team's underclassmen. With a mutiny on his hands, Buzz became impatient which led to crazy substitution patterns. Had he been more consistent with underclassmen, in the beginning of the year, there's a chance they may have bought in/figured it out/more confidence in March. At least that is my theory, from what I have read.
This makes sense to me as well, although this was such a weird year who but Buzz really knows what was going on (and "Don't Get Fooled Again" is still ringing in my ears). Buzz thought the best way to win this year was to double down on the upperclassmen. I expect this rubbed some of the more talented players wrong and we are hearing their gripes now. Time to move on.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 02, 2014, 11:40:09 AM
If you were looking for another coaching job, wouldn't you want to maximize your market value by having a great, winning season?
Well, that's what you do if you want to leave to a GOOD job. He went to VT.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 02, 2014, 11:40:09 AM
If you were looking for another coaching job, wouldn't you want to maximize your market value by having a great, winning season?
That would, indeed, be the
rational approach.
Quote from: mu-rara on April 02, 2014, 10:31:55 AM
It's not what someone says. It is how much arrogance and 20/20 hindsight come along with the statement.
Still smarting about Wisconsin and your dumb comments the other day I see.
Hindsight, no sugar....things were brought up here 6 years ago, 5 years ago, etc, but people blasted me and everyone else that brought them up. After awhile, you just stop saying it because the wagons are circled and no one wants to believe it, see it, hear it as long as the wins come.
No hindsight at all...a lot of crow eating now....it was inevitable that it was coming.
The key with Buzz is understanding the mental\emotional aspects of Buzz. That will help lead you to the answers you seek.
Quote from: windyplayer on April 02, 2014, 11:25:38 AM
Honestly, it's starting to look more and more like Buzz sabotaged this season so it ended ASAP and he could accelerate the inevitable process of getting him out of town. I'd love to hear his side of the Steve story. I'm sure it would be filled with a bunch of crap, but I want to hear it from him.
I don't know but, the treatment Steve experienced, from what I heard, was the same treatment and reason Ferguson left. Practice performance not transitioning into playing time. As unorthodox as he was, I heard that he gave Blue headaches in practice, on both ends.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on April 03, 2014, 01:17:50 PM
I don't know but, the treatment Steve experienced, from what I heard, was the same treatment and reason Ferguson left. Practice performance not transitioning into playing time. As unorthodox as he was, I heard that he gave Blue headaches in practice, on both ends.
Buzz, in the face of adversity, leaned too hard on his players. Rather than seek out a positive way to resolve the issues of players becoming better, he continued down the dark path of negative reinforcement which planted the seeds of mutiny and built up a wall between Buzz and his players.
Let's move on to Wojo.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 02, 2014, 11:13:39 PM
Hindsight, no sugar....things were brought up here 6 years ago, 5 years ago, etc, but people blasted me and everyone else that brought them up. After awhile, you just stop saying it because the wagons are circled and no one wants to believe it, see it, hear it as long as the wins come.
No hindsight at all...a lot of crow eating now....it was inevitable that it was coming.
Baloney. You've spent 3+ years (until things got rocky this year) telling anybody who would listen that your earlier concerns had been allayed and assuring all that you loved Buzz. All of that conveniently forgotten now.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 02, 2014, 11:15:49 PM
The key with Buzz is understanding the mental\emotional aspects of Buzz. That will help lead you to the answers you seek.
Thanks, Doc.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 01, 2014, 06:25:51 PM
For me, I knew something was up once we heard that Jerry Wainwright had told Todd to speak to Coach Buzz about playing time.
Wainwright's been around the block more than once and coming out of the CPS he has seen more than his share of bizarre stuff. You have to think Wainwright is inside watching Bert's sh1t then heads outside to grab a smoke. I can just picture Jerry standing outside behind the Al dragging on a butt, face down, slowly shaking his head in dismay, and letting go a WTF laugh at the insanity going on inside.
Quote from: Ari Gold on April 01, 2014, 06:53:39 PM
(http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i56/5/7/9/frabz-Im-not-saying-its-a-conspiracy-but-its-a-conspiracy-3ac0d9.jpg)
Only question left is if paint touches will rebrand for wojo.
And they shouldn't. But I'll bet they wish they had a mulligan on that one
Quote from: atk13thst on April 01, 2014, 07:01:50 PM
Real talk: You, Goose and Ners are the realest posters on this board. I respect what you three guys have to say because indeed u are right almost all the time. Respect Respeck
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQBIRHcVjlsZD3dZmfNjtIdjc-pcKBmiC9hDqZOvFMKtQaYn3Q)
Quote from: keefe on April 03, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
Wainwright's been around the block more than once and coming out of the CPS he has seen more than his share of bizarre stuff. You have to think Wainwright is inside watching Bert's sh1t then heads outside to grab a smoke. I can just picture Jerry standing outside behind the Al dragging on a butt, face down, slowly shaking his head in dismay, and letting go a WTF laugh at the insanity going on inside.
Could be why Jerry is staying. Probably the only coach that had the balls to stand up to Buzz. Glad Todd Smith and Earnest are staying though. Those two are huge to players development.
I always got the impression that Jerry was brought as a nod to the administration as opposed to being a buzz-guy. Could be way off-base but he came in right when we had all that turnover in assistants and the negative news started coming out about players. I am my own source.
Quote from: chitownwarrior2011 on April 03, 2014, 02:07:23 PM
Could be why Jerry is staying. Probably the only coach that had the balls to stand up to Buzz. Glad Todd Smith and Earnest are staying though. Those two are huge to players development.
Jerry was retired from coaching when Buzz hired him as an assistant. He's from Chicago. Doubt if the idea of spending his golden years in Blacksburg, Va. appealed to him.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 03, 2014, 02:22:24 PM
Jerry was retired from coaching when Buzz hired him as an assistant. He's from Chicago. Doubt if the idea of spending his golden years in Blacksburg, Va. appealed to him.
That I knew. Ive met Jerry many times.
Quote from: keefe on April 03, 2014, 02:03:59 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQBIRHcVjlsZD3dZmfNjtIdjc-pcKBmiC9hDqZOvFMKtQaYn3Q)
Respect Respeck
It truly is the
golden age for Scoop when we can get an Ali G refence.
Quote from: brandx on April 03, 2014, 04:30:00 PM
It truly is the golden age for Scoop when we can get an Ali G refence.
west side
Quote from: keefe on April 03, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
Wainwright's been around the block more than once and coming out of the CPS he has seen more than his share of bizarre stuff. You have to think Wainwright is inside watching Bert's sh1t then heads outside to grab a smoke. I can just picture Jerry standing outside behind the Al dragging on a butt, face down, slowly shaking his head in dismay, and letting go a WTF laugh at the insanity going on inside.
Jerry never coached in the CPS. He had great success at East Leyden and Highland Park before moving on to college ball. He was well respected in the area and a likeable guy but I can't recall him recruiting the CPS while at DePaul or elsewhere. His assistant at DePaul coaches Charles Matthews IIRC and that may have been a benefit to buzz and MU during that recruitment. Roy Schmidt would have the scoop on that connection most likely.
Quote from: Fullodds on April 03, 2014, 11:26:12 PM
Jerry never coached in the CPS. He had great success at East Leyden and Highland Park before moving on to college ball. He was well respected in the area and a likeable guy but I can't recall him recruiting the CPS while at DePaul or elsewhere. His assistant at DePaul coaches Charles Matthews IIRC and that may have been a benefit to buzz and MU during that recruitment. Roy Schmidt would have the scoop on that connection most likely.
I remember my dad telling me about his Highland Park days. Thats how he met him.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 02, 2014, 11:40:09 AM
If you were looking for another coaching job, wouldn't you want to maximize your market value by having a great, winning season?
For the love of God, how could he be expected to have a "great winning season" when he was subjected to playing in
that conference with
that TV contract? You just don't get it, do you...
Quote from: chitownwarrior2011 on April 03, 2014, 11:46:34 PM
I remember my dad telling me about his Highland Park days.
Your father is a single malt man! Well done!