MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Groin_pull on March 30, 2014, 07:01:46 PM

Title: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Groin_pull on March 30, 2014, 07:01:46 PM
I swear I'm not trying to beat up my alma mater...but this past week has forced me to take a step back and closely look at MU. This coaching search...and it's related events...makes me wonder. Is MU a stepping stone? We all talk about MU's big hoops budget, but it seems like Cords & Co. can't find anyone who wants to take their cash.
Lots of sports fans I talk to think of MU (if they think of it at all) as a small school in a frozen rust belt city...playing in a sinking conference. Hell, many people out here on the west coast think MU is located in the U.P.

Is it possible...are we all in denial?


Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: White Shaq on March 30, 2014, 07:07:30 PM
Come on now. Our coach says he'll stay here as long as Marquette will have him...
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: club cheezes VIP lounge on March 30, 2014, 07:07:41 PM
Let's define stepping stone...how many programs out of the 351 D1 schools do you consider MU a stepping stone for?
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Eldon on March 30, 2014, 07:07:59 PM
Recognize the procedure.  Recognize the procedure.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: WadeATKBurton on March 30, 2014, 07:10:05 PM
Quote from: club cheezes VIP lounge on March 30, 2014, 07:07:41 PM
Let's define stepping stone...how many programs out of the 351 D1 schools do you consider MU a stepping stone for?

Everyone thats not a blueblood program is a stepping stone job
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: club cheezes VIP lounge on March 30, 2014, 07:11:26 PM
Quote from: atk13thst on March 30, 2014, 07:10:05 PM
Everyone thats not a blueblood program is a stepping stone job

how many blue blood programs are there in D1?
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Marquette_g on March 30, 2014, 07:12:58 PM
Quote from: atk13thst on March 30, 2014, 07:10:05 PM
Everyone thats not a blueblood program is a stepping stone job

Agreed.

There are maybe 15 blue blood jobs and that is probably generous.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: White Shaq on March 30, 2014, 07:15:09 PM
My list of Blue Blood programs...

Duke
Kansas
Kentucky
UCLA
UNC

You can make an argument for others - Syracuse, Louisville, Michigan State, etc. but these five are the ones with the history of success.


Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: WadeATKBurton on March 30, 2014, 07:15:33 PM
Quote from: club cheezes VIP lounge on March 30, 2014, 07:11:26 PM
how many blue blood programs are there in D1?

Kansas, UNC, Kentucky, Duke, FLA, Louiville, Ohio State, Michigan State, UCLA and Syracuse.

Care to argue?
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: WadeATKBurton on March 30, 2014, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: atk13thst on March 30, 2014, 07:15:33 PM
Kansas, UNC, Kentucky, Duke, FLA, Louiville, Ohio State, Michigan State, UCLA and Syracuse.

Care to argue?

and Indiana
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: nathanziarek on March 30, 2014, 07:16:59 PM
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 30, 2014, 07:01:46 PM..but it seems like Cords & Co. can't find anyone who wants to take their cash.

Seems like is right. We have no idea what's really happening. Every day there are new rumors. I personally believe that, aside from Shaka, no one else has been offered. It's not a matter of an inability to find someone to take Marquette's money.

I think what we're seeing is that college hoops has so much parity it's really difficult to be a big enough step up to justify the risk.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 30, 2014, 07:17:42 PM
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 30, 2014, 07:01:46 PM
I swear I'm not trying to beat up my alma mater...but this past week has forced me to take a step back and closely look at MU. This coaching search...and it's related events...makes me wonder. Is MU a stepping stone? We all talk about MU's big hoops budget, but it seems like Cords & Co. can't find anyone who wants to take their cash.
Lots of sports fans I talk to think of MU (if they think of it at all) as a small school in a frozen rust belt city...playing in a sinking conference. Hell, many people out here on the west coast think MU is located in the U.P.

Is it possible...are we all in denial?

Patience ... wait until we get a name tomorrow or Tuesday and then go crazy.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Eldon on March 30, 2014, 07:18:03 PM
IMO

Blue Bloods: UK, KU, IU, UNC, Duke, UCLA
Near: UCONN, MSU, AZ, Cuse, Lville, ~tOSU, ~Florida
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: nathanziarek on March 30, 2014, 07:20:00 PM
Quote from: It's Va Tech! It's Va Tech! on March 30, 2014, 07:15:09 PM
Duke
Kansas
Kentucky
UCLA
UNC

I'd agree with this list. My only exception might be UCLA -- I know it has a rich history and pretty recent success, but whenever I think of my list, I always forget them :) I figure that speaks a bit to their blue-bloodiness ... just not sure how.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Jet915 on March 30, 2014, 07:20:20 PM
I think the problem is that one of the higher ups doesn't want Howland.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2014, 07:20:23 PM
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 30, 2014, 07:01:46 PM
I swear I'm not trying to beat up my alma mater...but this past week has forced me to take a step back and closely look at MU. This coaching search...and it's related events...makes me wonder. Is MU a stepping stone? We all talk about MU's big hoops budget, but it seems like Cords & Co. can't find anyone who wants to take their cash.
Lots of sports fans I talk to think of MU (if they think of it at all) as a small school in a frozen rust belt city...playing in a sinking conference. Hell, many people out here on the west coast think MU is located in the U.P.

Is it possible...are we all in denial?




Nah.  It is what it is.  UCLA couldn't get Shaka or Stevens..."settled" for Alford.  UCLA has had to do this several times.  Goes on quite a bit.  If you target existing coaches, its going to happen.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: chapman on March 30, 2014, 07:24:03 PM
Unless you hire Wardle, the stepping stone will be a risk for any candidate.  Just need to ask how you want to play with fire?  Some candidates (Hopkins, Wojo) are flying the coop now specifically to get the experience; their schools will probably not hire an assistant with no head coaching experience and now's the time.  Others are more open-ended where there's not a specific job they could be transitioning into, but that could put them on the radar for several programs down the line.


Quote from: Jet915 on March 30, 2014, 07:20:20 PM
I think the problem is that one of the higher ups doesn't want Howland.

That's the rumor.  Unfortunately, if it's Daddy Warbucks it's going to be tough to get him to give in.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: brandx on March 30, 2014, 07:25:29 PM
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 30, 2014, 07:01:46 PM
I swear I'm not trying to beat up my alma mater...but this past week has forced me to take a step back and closely look at MU. This coaching search...and it's related events...makes me wonder. Is MU a stepping stone? We all talk about MU's big hoops budget, but it seems like Cords & Co. can't find anyone who wants to take their cash.
Lots of sports fans I talk to think of MU (if they think of it at all) as a small school in a frozen rust belt city...playing in a sinking conference. Hell, many people out here on the west coast think MU is located in the U.P.

Is it possible...are we all in denial?


By "anyone", I can assume you mean one person. That's how many we know have turned down Marquette and it is the same guy that turned down a blueblood as well. So I don't think it reflects poorly on MU in any way.


MU & Cords are doing their proper due diligence as they try to find the best fit for the job. There happen to be many assistants in the country right now who will be excellent head coaches. There are also some successful head coaches who are available as well.

MU has conducted this search exactly as they should so far. The only problem was some know-it-all insider on another board who declared a "done deal" before pen was put to paper so that he could be "first". Totally irresponsible and that alone has made it seem as though the search is being bungled.

In actuality, it is proceeding exactly as it should and the necessary parties are being contacted and talked to.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: club cheezes VIP lounge on March 30, 2014, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: atk13thst on March 30, 2014, 07:15:33 PM
Kansas, UNC, Kentucky, Duke, FLA, Louiville, Ohio State, Michigan State, UCLA and Syracuse.

Care to argue?

Not looking to argue, just trying to wrap my mind around all the "stepping stone" talk.  By your definition there are roughly 340 or so stepping stone jobs in D1, roughly 97%. 
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: texaswarrior74 on March 30, 2014, 07:42:36 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if having an interim AD is presenting a bigger hurdle/roadblock with potential candidates than we originally believed ????
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: WadeATKBurton on March 30, 2014, 07:44:29 PM
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on March 30, 2014, 07:42:36 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if having an interim AD is presenting a bigger hurdle/roadblock with potential candidates than we originally believed ????

Sure seems like it. However, I give Chords credit for swinging for the fences with Shaka.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Groin_pull on March 30, 2014, 07:46:07 PM
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on March 30, 2014, 07:42:36 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if having an interim AD is presenting a bigger hurdle/roadblock with potential candidates than we originally believed ????

Still trying to figure out why it's so damn hard for MU to fill that position.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: brandx on March 30, 2014, 07:46:27 PM
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on March 30, 2014, 07:42:36 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if having an interim AD is presenting a bigger hurdle/roadblock with potential candidates than we originally believed ????

Why? We made one offer to a guy who doesn't want to leave where he is at.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Aughnanure on March 30, 2014, 07:47:41 PM
How many programs have a coach who's been there more than 10 years? It's hard to find those guys.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: brandx on March 30, 2014, 07:47:55 PM
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 30, 2014, 07:46:07 PM
Still trying to figure out why it's so damn hard for MU to fill that position.

There is no evidence that is the case. None.

One coach turned us down - the same coach who also turned down a blueblood.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: willie warrior on March 30, 2014, 07:49:21 PM
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 30, 2014, 07:17:42 PM
Patience ... wait until we get a name tomorrow or Tuesday and then go crazy.
We are getting lots of names, just don't know if any are reliable.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: willie warrior on March 30, 2014, 07:50:51 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2014, 07:20:23 PM
Nah.  It is what it is.  UCLA couldn't get Shaka or Stevens..."settled" for Alford.  UCLA has had to do this several times.  Goes on quite a bit.  If you target existing coaches, its going to happen.
Alford may be a settle and disliked by some, but he has won everywhere.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: WadeATKBurton on March 30, 2014, 07:52:10 PM
Quote from: brandx on March 30, 2014, 07:47:55 PM
There is no evidence that is the case. None.

One coach turned us down - the same coach who also turned down a blueblood.

Only took 5 days for UCLA to fill their coaching position last year. Yea, we are NOT a first tier program like I thought we were.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: WadeATKBurton on March 30, 2014, 07:54:23 PM
Quote from: willie warrior on March 30, 2014, 07:50:51 PM
Alford may be a settle and disliked by some, but he has won everywhere.

It only took them 5 days to find another coach. We seem to be having a hard time fielding interest from quality coaches besides cuonzo..
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: nathanziarek on March 30, 2014, 08:05:25 PM
Quote from: atk13thst on March 30, 2014, 07:54:23 PM
It only took them 5 days to find another coach. We seem to be having a hard time fielding interest from quality coaches besides cuonzo..

Why get yourself so worked up over complete conjecture? You're guessing there's no interest. There have been rumors from every corner of the college basketball world. I'd guess there's too much interest, and the search committee is just performing due diligence.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Texas Western on March 30, 2014, 08:12:58 PM
I don't care what we are labeled in the coaching profession. I have had a lot of experiences with D-1 coaches in all the big conferences. They are all transient in their mentality with the exception of a select few. They look you in the eye and give you a lot of BS. All I want for MU is a guy who will work his tail off to get us back in the dance and competing for the Big East title.  If the guy is here for 5-7 years so be it. If he does his job right that will mean we have continued to strengthen  our tradition and program. I  just as happy with an assistant making his name, a young up and comer or an already established guy. All I care about is that he gives us his all and is a legitimate guy without emotional baggage like Buzz had.
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2014, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: willie warrior on March 30, 2014, 07:50:51 PM
Alford may be a settle and disliked by some, but he has won everywhere.

Mixed bag thus far, but he has great recruits coming in
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 30, 2014, 11:34:05 PM
My list of blue bloods:

Kentucky
Duke
North Carolina
Kansas
Indiana
UCLA
Louisville

Other Jobs that are above Marquette:
Florida
Texas
Ohio State
Michigan State
UConn
Syracuse
Arizona
Georgetown
Michigan
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: mattyv1908 on March 31, 2014, 12:47:50 AM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 30, 2014, 11:34:05 PM
My list of blue bloods:

Kentucky
Duke
North Carolina
Kansas
Indiana
UCLA
Louisville

Other Jobs that are above Marquette:
Florida
Texas
Ohio State
Michigan State
UConn
Syracuse
Arizona
Georgetown
Michigan

How about other programs that are a lateral move for whatever reason and only would be made for other intrinsic value.

Present day here's my list:

Gonzaga - Few ain't leaving and shouldn't.
Wisconsin
Villanova
St. John's - same conference and St. John's is smack dab in the middle of a great recruiting hub.
West Virginia
Washington - if Romar was a decent coach with the recruits he gets they'd be a sweet 16 team almost every year.
Cincinnati
Virginia
Oklahoma
Xavier - now that they're in the BE it doesn't make sense.
OKST

and obviously Virginia Tech...
Title: Re: Perhaps MU is a (gulp) stepping stone.
Post by: Benny B on March 31, 2014, 09:03:22 AM
Quote from: atk13thst on March 30, 2014, 07:54:23 PM
It only took them 5 days to find another coach. We seem to be having a hard time fielding interest from quality coaches besides cuonzo..

UCLA also 1) didn't have a job opening until after the first weekend of the tournament and 2) their eventual coach was available much sooner than some of the coaches being targeted by MU.

What semblance of understanding do you have regarding how hard of a time MU is having fielding interest.  For all you know, there were three quality hires banging down MU's door before this past weekend even began.

In the real world we call it due diligence.  Sometimes it takes longer than you expect... but the process is what drives the timing of the hire, not the other way around.
EhPortal 1.39.9 © 2025, WebDev