Every time I see a train crash where the conductor fell asleep or was going 100 around a corner, etc, I am simply amazed that a human has that much control over a train.
It is like it is 40 years ago. There has to be technology either based on GPS, wireless rail side/station side or crash avoidance to not allow this... how and why a human is in complete control of a train just boggles my mind.
Anyway, sorry for the rant, but after reading about another train crash, this time at O'hare, where the driver fell asleep, I just don't understand.
Job loss, collectively bargained for.
one summer while I was at MU I was lucky enough to get a job on the Milwaukee Road as a switchman. As such I filled in for vacationing switchmen who often worked their vacations earning double pay. The most senior switchman was the conductor and it was often me as the union agreement gave those working their vacations a pass and the other switchman was also summer help. I knew nothing, but was charged with running a two mile long train, directing two other switchmen, a fireman and an engineer. The experienced switchmen and engineer resented me, saw me as a threat to their job and I was paid the same as the 25 year veteran due to their union agreement. We had no 2-way radios as these would eliminate the need for the other switchmen and the firemen. This was the prevalent make-up of the crews and it was not especially rare to see 4 or 5 runaway carloads of steel auto frames shoot by on a nearby track, only to feel and hear the collision a few miles down the tracks when they hit another train. Any safety or convenience features were resisted in the interest of job preservation.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 27, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
Job loss, collectively bargained for.
+1
Why are their even drivers? Ever been to the airport and taken the shuttle train between terminals? No one drives it, run by computers. Ditto trains in Hong Kong and Tokyo.
The other nice thing about computerized commuter trains is they run 24 hours, the marginal cost to let them run the route for a few drunks going home a 4am is really low.
Why don't we have them? See the answer above.
Also, in the ohare train crash, the driver admitted she has fallen asleep before. The union said the dealth with it by putting a note in her file (collective bargaining rules). Chicago Trib speculated she will be driving a train again soon as Union rule say she can.
Quote from: augoman on March 27, 2014, 11:23:29 PM
one summer while I was at MU I was lucky enough to get a job on the Milwaukee Road as a switchman. As such I filled in for vacationing switchmen who often worked their vacations earning double pay. The most senior switchman was the conductor and it was often me as the union agreement gave those working their vacations a pass and the other switchman was also summer help. I knew nothing, but was charged with running a two mile long train, directing two other switchmen, a fireman and an engineer. The experienced switchmen and engineer resented me, saw me as a threat to their job and I was paid the same as the 25 year veteran due to their union agreement. We had no 2-way radios as these would eliminate the need for the other switchmen and the firemen. This was the prevalent make-up of the crews and it was not especially rare to see 4 or 5 runaway carloads of steel auto frames shoot by on a nearby track, only to feel and hear the collision a few miles down the tracks when they hit another train. Any safety or convenience features were resisted in the interest of job preservation.
I think things have changed just a bit since 1980 when the Milwaukee Road went out of business but not all has changed. I remember the union fight against eliminating the caboose from trains because of the jobs that were lost when going from 2 man crews to a single man crew.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 28, 2014, 06:02:47 AM
+1
Why are their even drivers? Ever been to the airport and taken the shuttle train between terminals? No one drives it, run by computers. Ditto trains in Hong Kong and Tokyo.
The other nice thing about computerized commuter trains is they run 24 hours, the marginal cost to let them run the route for a few drunks going home a 4am is really low.
Why don't we have them? See the answer above.
Also, in the ohare train crash, the driver admitted she has fallen asleep before. The union said the dealth with it by putting a note in her file (collective bargaining rules). Chicago Trib speculated she will be driving a train again soon as Union rule say she can.
Probably within 7-10 years it will be very common place and financially advantageous to have driverless cars.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 28, 2014, 08:05:22 AM
Probably within 7-10 years it will be very common place and financially advantageous to have driverless cars.
We already do. Locally, we call ours the "Blue Line."
I'll be here all week. Try the fish.
Quote from: Benny B on March 28, 2014, 09:33:48 AM
We already do. Locally, we call ours the "Blue Line."
I'll be here all week. Try the fish.
www.instantrimshot.com
its more nuanced than just "collectively bargained for"
The CTA still has train stock from the 50s and 60s. Its not like they buy new train cars every 10 years. Do you know how expensive an upgrade to automatic type trains would be? (Hint: way more expensive than paying someone to drive them). You have to upgrade the track as well.
I'm not saying that in the future, this shouldn't be the ideal. They will get there. But again, these cars last forever.
Is there a metaphor in here somewhere related to universities and their lack of restraint?
Quote from: Bleuteaux on March 28, 2014, 09:51:51 AM
its more nuanced than just "collectively bargained for"
The CTA still has train stock from the 50s and 60s. Its not like they buy new train cars every 10 years. Do you know how expensive an upgrade to automatic type trains would be? (Hint: way more expensive than paying someone to drive them). You have to upgrade the track as well.
I'm not saying that in the future, this shouldn't be the ideal. They will get there. But again, these cars last forever.
Understood. My uncle was one of the lead negotiators for the railroad union back in the day. He used to tell me why the Caboose held on for so darn long...much of it was because the caboose cars lasted forever, but it was also about jobs. Eventually they moved the brakeman up to the cab, and eliminated one of the jobs, but the caboose lasted much longer than needed in part because of the unions.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 28, 2014, 12:55:54 PM
Understood. My uncle was one of the lead negotiators for the railroad union back in the day. He used to tell me why the Caboose held on for so darn long...much of it was because the caboose cars lasted forever, but it was also about jobs. Eventually they moved the brakeman up to the cab, and eliminated one of the jobs, but the caboose lasted much longer than needed in part because of the unions.
Let's just automate everything. Then you can go on about how all of the fired workers are "lazy" and "takers". You advocate eliminating jobs and then who do you blame? The fired workers, of course. Never, ever blame the people who are getting rid of the jobs.
Quote from: brandx on March 28, 2014, 01:09:12 PM
Let's just automate everything. Then you can go on about how all of the fired workers are "lazy" and "takers". You advocate eliminating jobs and then who do you blame? The fired workers, of course. Never, ever blame the people who are getting rid of the jobs.
Actually never said that, nor would I ever say that. There are people that lose jobs for reasons out of their control.
The lazy and takers are these guys Brand (linked below..film by Alexandra Pelosi...yes, Nancy's daughter)....I'm just curious why your side thinks it is such a great idea to keep rewarding this behavior....because that's what your policies do
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/03/17/real_time_interviews_shameless_welfare_recipients.html
So, are we a run away train?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 28, 2014, 01:39:39 PM
Actually never said that, nor would I ever say that. There are people that lose jobs for reasons out of their control.
The lazy and takers are these guys Brand (linked below..film by Alexandra Pelosi...yes, Nancy's daughter)....I'm just curious why your side thinks it is such a great idea to keep rewarding this behavior....because that's what your policies do
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/03/17/real_time_interviews_shameless_welfare_recipients.html
I think you have most of us wrong. I am for welfare benefits to get people through rough times. If they can't find a job after 2 years, let them continue to get the benefits - but require public service work to remain eligible. At least 20 hours a week - whether it is cleaning roadsides or parks or doing other similar work the state has available - while the state placement services try to find something permanent. My concern is not lazy people who don't want to work, but the kids that are involved.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 28, 2014, 01:42:01 PM
So, are we a run away train?
(http://swearingin.com/wcontent/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Soul+Asylum+-+Runaway+Train+-+5-+CD+SINGLE-24115.jpg)
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 28, 2014, 02:45:10 PM
(http://swearingin.com/wcontent/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Soul+Asylum+-+Runaway+Train+-+5-+CD+SINGLE-24115.jpg)
So are you suggesting Rich Pitino from Minnesota?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 27, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
Job loss, collectively bargained for.
Collective bargaining process = derailed train. Well when you put it black and white like that, sure it makes sense.
Quote from: brandx on March 28, 2014, 02:11:30 PM
I think you have most of us wrong. I am for welfare benefits to get people through rough times. If they can't find a job after 2 years, let them continue to get the benefits - but require public service work to remain eligible. At least 20 hours a week - whether it is cleaning roadsides or parks or doing other similar work the state has available - while the state placement services try to find something permanent. My concern is not lazy people who don't want to work, but the kids that are involved.
IMO, two years is far too long. Move. Find something else. There are options.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 28, 2014, 02:45:10 PM
(http://swearingin.com/wcontent/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Soul+Asylum+-+Runaway+Train+-+5-+CD+SINGLE-24115.jpg)
I saw those guys play a free show on The New Haven Green. A great show.
It's a safety net program, that is the purpose. If someone loses their job, it is there to bridge things. That is a legitimate purpose. It is not for someone to become a permanent source of income like these knuckleheads in that video. Yes, there are "rules" around how many consecutive months you can be on a program, of course it is also abused because people then get a job for a few days, get laid off and they start the process over again.
The fact that we allow this stuff and turn another eye to it is an endorsement. As Maher and Pelosi said, HBO execs freaked out about even showing it. God forbid we unveil the curtain into what is happening.
i believe there was an automatic brake on the train and it failed as well.
Amazing to me that we can't catch people like this more easily. How inept is gov't at the fed and state level to not be able to catch this?
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/03/29/authorities-look-for-lavish-couple-living-on-food-stamps/
Quote from: 77fan88warrior on March 30, 2014, 12:11:39 PM
i believe there was an automatic brake on the train and it failed as well.
stay off-topic please!