Seems there is wide ranging sentiment on the signing. Personally, I really like it. We need bigs...now in a perfect world we would be signing 4 and 5 star bigs when ever we needed them, but for whatever the reason that has not happened.
The biggest issue I have had is when missing on big target #1 or #2 we have ended up with a guard or a marginal JUCO. This year's roster is a perfect example. We have 2 guys active 6'8 or bigger. In a perfect situation we could have signed a 4 star or 5 star guy and he could have stepped in for Barro next year and we do no miss a beat. That has not happened at MU in 20+ years. Even a guy like Jim Mcilvaine struggled mightly for 2+ years.
As opposed to missing on our bigs and signing a guard MU needs to sign 1 big every year. That way they have a couple of years to develop before really being needed. Even if we signed our #1 target in FBE, he would not be ready to contribute in a real way until his sophomore or more likely junior year, now he would have been out there but would he be ready to abttle starting BE juniors and seniors?. Perfect example is BArro and Burke. BArro started to be effective as a junior, had a few moments as a soph but was really only in their by default. Same with Burke, simply out classed as a Freshman and a Sophomore this year hopefully he makes some contributions and hopefully is even better by next year.
That is simply the way it needs to work. granted if we sign a huge stud 5 star guy he can step in right away, but that has not happened at MU in forever, not to say it cannot, but it cannot be the expectation.
The plan needs to be 1. 6'8' 225+ guy every year if he is very higly rated he contributes immediately, if not we should already have a soph, jun, and senior on the roster for him to practice and develop against until it is his time.
By all accounts Otule has good strenght and athleticism, good size , a good attitude and a good work ethic. Those are the very qualities I am looking for. I am excited, Beats signing another guard as in years past.
Do you think he could make a contribution as a sophomore? From what I have read, this seams like a possibility. Hopefully, we don't have to wait until his Jr. Year.
That is obviously the hope. But my guess is alot of that is going to rely next year on Mbakwe, Burke, and Hazel with hopefully some contribution from Otule, Lazar etc. Then year after that Mbakwe, and Otule as Sophs and HAzel as a Junior. Clearly not an ideal scenario, the better option would have been to be able to sign some Big Burger boy AA. Not a pretty picture but MU needs to start some where, hopefully our guard play the next 2 years will be so strong to make up for the chasm in the paint. As I have said before it's really unfortunate we basically signed no bigs for 3 years. BE's best back court and worst front court = what could have been. No simple answers you gotta start some where and Otule's a start.
I'm actually inclined to agree with you. I'd like to have a "mini-stockpile" of big men... but it's probably easier said then done.
Hopefully with Mbakwe, O'Tule, and another 4/5 in 2009 will help create a nice selection of big men who can develop over time.
No simple answers...it took 2-3 years to get here and will take 2-3 to get out. Now maybe we get lucky and Mbakwe and friends really blossom as sophs...history will tell us that is unlikely but we can hope. Sign a solid Big in 2009 class and we should be out of the woods.
The thing that absolutely perplexes me though is after Crean makes his "shorthanded guards" decree in 2004, how does he then find himself in the same boat with bigs? Really strange.
Quote from: Harrison on November 05, 2007, 11:45:44 AM
No simple answers...it took 2-3 years to get here and will take 2-3 to get out. Now maybe we get lucky and Mbakwe and friends really blossom as sophs...history will tell us that is unlikely but we can hope. Sign a solid Big in 2009 class and we should be out of the woods.
The thing that absolutely perplexes me though is after Crean makes his "shorthanded guards" decree in 2004, how does he then find himself in the same boat with bigs? Really strange.
It's not like Crean has not tried to land bigs over the past few years. We have swung and missed at quite a few big guys. After a certain point, when your first five choices turn you down, you are stuck recruiting JUCOs like Lott and Blackledge.
Quote from: Harrison on November 05, 2007, 11:45:44 AM
No simple answers...it took 2-3 years to get here and will take 2-3 to get out. Now maybe we get lucky and Mbakwe and friends really blossom as sophs...history will tell us that is unlikely but we can hope. Sign a solid Big in 2009 class and we should be out of the woods.
The thing that absolutely perplexes me though is after Crean makes his "shorthanded guards" decree in 2004, how does he then find himself in the same boat with bigs? Really strange.
Well, if DJ had stayed in the draft, and Saunders would have come to MU, and if Mbakwe wouldn't have gotten hurt... MU would have plenty of forwards.
I'm not saying either Saunders or Mbakwe would have been all-conf. as frosh., but there wouldn't be a "shortage".
The head coach is still ultimately responsible for the recruits he gets, but sometimes circumstances change quickly and drastically.
The head coach is still ultimately responsible for the recruits he gets, but sometimes circumstances change quickly and drastically.
Correct that is why you can not be paper thin in or inexperienced in a position. If you figure the 4 and 5 positions being 40% of a lineup then 40% of a roster would be 5.2 or 5 or 6 on a roster. MU has 4, 2 of which are Freshman and now one is hurt. Leaving us with 3. Starting with only 4, 2 of which are Freshman definitely stacks circumstances against your favor. Sort of the antithesis of Luck comes to those that are prepared. Considering Trend, Fitz, or Lazar a 4 is stretching it as well. Fitz and Lazar combined for 5 rebounds against an NAIA team. Crean screwed up offering Trend, seems like a good kid but he should have eaten the schollie and offered a true big, Suanders could be on campus now.
Quote from: Harrison on November 05, 2007, 11:45:44 AM
The thing that absolutely perplexes me though is after Crean makes his "shorthanded guards" decree in 2004, how does he then find himself in the same boat with bigs? Really strange.
I think Crean believes guards are more important than bigs in the grand scheme of things. I don't see anything that tells me he would be uncomfortable running the team for a year with a 4 guard lineup a-la Villanova's elite eight team, if the situation dictated.
I think he would be uncomfortable without running two-deep at every guard position.
I don't know why everyone views the Villanova elite eight team of a few years back as some sort of model. Jay Wright at the time said that he ran the four guard line up out of necessity since one or two of his bigs were injured or unable to play for one reason or another. Also, a couple of those guards were lights out 3pt shooters. The four guard offense was a fall back position which worked with effective outside shooting but was hardly the preferred line up.
When recruiting, I would prefer that we look at the MU 2003 final four team as more of a model or just about any other final four team of recent memory as a model. They all have had more balanced attacks using guards and forwards.
However, one comparison that is apt is that we will probably run the same type of offense out of necessity this year. I hope a couple of guys step up in their 3pt shooting.
Quote from: Harrison on November 05, 2007, 01:51:17 PM
The head coach is still ultimately responsible for the recruits he gets, but sometimes circumstances change quickly and drastically.
Correct that is why you can not be paper thin in or inexperienced in a position. If you figure the 4 and 5 positions being 40% of a lineup then 40% of a roster would be 5.2 or 5 or 6 on a roster. MU has 4, 2 of which are Freshman and now one is hurt. Leaving us with 3. Starting with only 4, 2 of which are Freshman definitely stacks circumstances against your favor. Sort of the antithesis of Luck comes to those that are prepared. Considering Trend, Fitz, or Lazar a 4 is stretching it as well. Fitz and Lazar combined for 5 rebounds against an NAIA team. Crean screwed up offering Trend, seems like a good kid but he should have eaten the schollie and offered a true big, Suanders could be on campus now.
Actually, I sort of retract my previous statement... Even if DJ had gone pro, that doesn't mean Saunders would be here as he was said to have academic issues.
Trend might have been a little bit of an error... but MU was originally after Gilbourne to fill a 3pt shooters role... so Trend is actually an upgrade as far as being a "big".
I will just say that coaches do need to be prepared (like you said)... but also keep in mind that an injury and academic ineligibility have put MU in this situation. The coaching staff is responsible (to a point) but definitely not to "blame".
Also, I think a lot of teams in the country could be considered "thin at guard" or "needs more size" etc. etc. Very few teams are perceived as perfect balances.
Hell, think if Novak would have gotten injured in 2002 (his frosh year). MU wouldn't have had many shooters on that team. Deiner was good, Chapman was decent, but inexperienced. Wade was never known as a shooter, and Townsend wasn't too good the second half of the year.
No team is perfect.. especially if it has injuries.