He left because the Big East isn't what it used to be. The ACC is where the competition and good coaches are and that's where he wants to be. He was thinking about it for a while I'm sure and he used this season as good timing to get out. I know we're all a little irrational right now, but I have confidence we'll get a good coach for the future...or at least the next five years.
I'd be pleased if you checked out my piece (http://isportsweb.com/2014/03/22/marquette-basketball-buzz-williams-leaves-for-virginia-tech/) I just wrote about the departure.
I think there is more to this story...
Nice spin but the challenge was here as well. He gave up on this after a disappointing season for a program that can hardly be a supported as MU. The jury is still out on all the reasons.
Nobody leaves "for more competition" when they can't beat their current competition unless they're forced out
Your "piece"/spam is garbage
Quote from: MUsoxfan on March 22, 2014, 12:54:07 AM
Nobody leaves "for more competition" when they can't beat their current competition unless they're forced out
Your "piece"/spam is garbage
Thanks for the read.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 12:58:05 AM
Thanks for the read.
Chris
I think we all appreciate anything written about our favorite team but you are leaving a lot of meat on the table on this. Please start scrubbing and you'll get a bang up piece you can really hang your hat on.
If your hypothesis is correct, there is some questions to be asked.
1) Buzz is a numbers guy, quotes the RPI and Ken Pom....according to both, the current Big East is better than the ACC top to bottom.
2) If he was bored, as you stated, one might think only going 9-9 in this less than ideal competitive league seems rather counter intuitive.
He was bored?? Yeah I guess getting your a$$ kicked all year must be boring to some people ::) I have read other articles you have written and thought they were good...but to say he was bored is just lazy and untrue
>believing ESPN's anti Big East propaganda
The conference had little to do with it man.
The ACC had six tournament bids, the Big East had four. The ACC is without a doubt better and more high profile than the realigned Big East (even with the FS1 deal). All I'm saying is that you don't think this weighed in his head? The ACC is loaded with coaching legends, where Buzz aspires to be one day. Yes, there were a couple good teams in the BE (Nova, Creighton)...but come on, it isn't good at all.
Maybe saying "bored" was the wrong word...I think he was more-so done with the challenge. He'd already won the Big East last year, a big accomplishment and goal #1 as a coach (win your conference). In my opinion, he saw that the BE wouldn't be close to where it once was for a few years yet (and maybe teams) and he felt this was the right time to move to the new and improved ACC.
No. One thing speaks to coaches more than anything else and that's dollars.
Nobody takes a tremendous pay cut to go to a bottom-feeder unless they HAVE TO. Period.
Not buying this. This whole thing isn't adding up. There's got to be way more to this story.
Well according to this logic a hell of a lot of great football coaches are going to be begging for the chance to coach at Rutgers. They will really want to have a challenge and to coach in a great conference. Uh...... Don't hold your breath.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 01:22:56 AM
The ACC had six tournament bids, the Big East had four. The ACC is without a doubt better and more high profile than the realigned Big East (even with the FS1 deal). All I'm saying is that you don't think this weighed in his head? The ACC is loaded with coaching legends, where Buzz aspires to be one day. Yes, there were a couple good teams in the BE (Nova, Creighton)...but come on, it isn't good at all.
Maybe saying "bored" was the wrong word...I think he was more-so done with the challenge. He'd already won the Big East last year, a big accomplishment and goal #1 as a coach (win your conference). In my opinion, he saw that the BE wouldn't be close to where it once was for a few years yet (and maybe teams) and he felt this was the right time to move to the new and improved ACC.
And the Civil War was fought over States' Rights...
Here's my theory de l'heure
The team sucked this year. Buzz didn't like hearing jeers from fans. Buzz does not see anyone stepping and taking the leader role a la Vander, DJO/Jae, JFB, Lazar, etc. He's confident that next year could be worse than this year. Two years missing the NIT? Buzz thinks to himself, surely Marquette will can me and who will take me then? I better sell now, as my stock is only going to fall if I stay an additional year.
Other coaches/ADs/etc realize "hey maybe Buzz isn't that great after all." Folks in the media are saying that Buzz was actually interested in the Auburn job. AUBURN! That should lay to rest the whole Buzz-left-for-the-better-conference theory. Think about it. Do you think Shaka Smart leaves VCU to coach Clemson? Would Mark Few leaves the Zags to coach at DePaul simply because it's a much better league?
Perhaps this season exposed Buzz for who he is--someone who relies heavily on senior leadership. Buzz needs a fourth assistant coach, if you will. Why do you think his calls went from Oklahoma, Oregon, and UCLA to USF, Auburn, and VTech? Buzz was exposed and the coaching world knew it. KO pointed it out when calling games. His exposure is evidenced further given the fact that neither Wake nor BC gave Buzz a blink.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 01:22:56 AM
The ACC had six tournament bids, the Big East had four. The ACC is without a doubt better and more high profile than the realigned Big East (even with the FS1 deal). All I'm saying is that you don't think this weighed in his head? The ACC is loaded with coaching legends, where Buzz aspires to be one day. Yes, there were a couple good teams in the BE (Nova, Creighton)...but come on, it isn't good at all.
Maybe saying "bored" was the wrong word...I think he was more-so done with the challenge. He'd already won the Big East last year, a big accomplishment and goal #1 as a coach (win your conference). In my opinion, he saw that the BE wouldn't be close to where it once was for a few years yet (and maybe teams) and he felt this was the right time to move to the new and improved ACC.
6/15 is not as impressive as 4/10.
Realignment's effect on this was minimal
You try to make an educated guess and pass it off as fact.
Did you talk to Buzz? To anybody close to Buzz? To anybody at either Marquette or Virginia Tech? To anybody in college basketball at all?
Hell, the only "source" you quoted was your brother.
You might be right about all of this. Or you might be wrong about all of this.
If it somehow comes out that you were right, you will be sure to let us know. In the more likely event you are wrong ... crickets.
This is almost a textbook definition of speculation.
Quote from: MU82 on March 22, 2014, 05:20:58 AM
You try to make an educated guess and pass it off as fact.
Did you talk to Buzz? To anybody close to Buzz? To anybody at either Marquette or Virginia Tech? To anybody in college basketball at all?
Hell, the only "source" you quoted was your brother.
You might be right about all of this. Or you might be wrong about all of this.
I it somehow comes out that you were right, you will be sure to let us know. In the more likely event you are wrong ... crickets.
This is almost a textbook definition of speculation.
It's called an opinion.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 05:27:34 AM
It's called an opinion.
As long as you market it as an opinion piece, then you are fine
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 05:27:34 AM
It's called an opinion.
"It wasn't about the money, so why? Why would Buzz leave a program where he'd developed such strong ties with the community? Why the hell would he go to Virginia Tech of all places? The answer may sound silly, but it's simple...he was bored."Oh ... I thought you were trying to say that you had the simple answer to these vexing questions. I don't know where I got that idea.
Quote from: MU82 on March 22, 2014, 05:36:26 AM
"It wasn't about the money, so why? Why would Buzz leave a program where he'd developed such strong ties with the community? Why the hell would he go to Virginia Tech of all places? The answer may sound silly, but it's simple...he was bored."
You start with a flawed assumption, Buzz left. Then you Torcher yourself to answer this flawed question.
You do not consider he was "encouraged" or "pushed" to leave. Or, to say it softer, MU did not stop him. Whatever word/phrase you use, the "other side" had a lot to do with it, maybe more than Buzz.
In the history of the NCAA,or any other work environment, who voluntarily leaves for a dead-end job (which many neutral observers call VT) and for less money? Answer no one.
Your theory might work if he took Wake or BC, not VT.
Quote from: LAZER on March 22, 2014, 01:41:15 AM
Not buying this. This whole thing isn't adding up. There's got to be way more to this story.
yes there is. And part of the more is that Buzz Willliams was the big BSer that many here would not recognize!!!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 22, 2014, 05:11:20 AM
6/15 is not as impressive as 4/10.
Realignment's effect on this was minimal
Actually isn't it exactly the same ratio, 2 out of 5 teams get it?
You can't sit here and tell me that the Big East is alright and has no problems. They were a crap conference this year. It was two good teams and eight mediocre ones all beating up on each othrr. The ACC this year was FAR better and there's no denying that.
Buzz had a meeting with his players and was off. It's interesting to note that a couple of those players fired off tweet bashing Buzz and how he left. I'm not denying or calling into question that something is fishy here (leaving for less and a bad program), but wouldn't Buzz tell his players the REAL story behind closed doors? These are the young men he mentored for 1-6 years of their career, I'd like to think he'd be real with them...especially if he indeed was forced out. Don't think his own players would bash his decision in that way if he was forced out.
As for this, it's meant to be an opinion, I hope that people realize. It's a blog that encourages me to use opinion. Anyways, thanks for reading and for the constructive criticism. I know we're all still a little shocked, but don't go immediately assuming the guy was forced to leave just because the move makes no sense.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 09:48:02 AM
Look, you can't sit here and tell me that the Big East is alright and has no problems. They were a crap conference this year. It was two good teams and eight mediocre ones. The ACC this year was FAR better and there's no denying that.
Buzz had a meeting with his players and was off. It's interesting to note that a couple of those players fired off tweet bashing Buzz and how he left. I'm not denying or calling into question that something is fishy here (leaving for less and a bad program), but wouldn't Buzz tell his players the REAL story behind closed doors? These are the young men he mentored for 1-6 years of their career, I'd like to think he'd be real with them...especially if he indeed was forced out. Don't think his own players would bash his decision in that way if he was forced out.
As for this, it's meant to be an opinion, I hope that people realize. It's a blog that encourages me to use opinion. Anyways, thanks for reading and for the constructive criticism. I know we're all still a little shocked, but don't go immediately assuming the guy was forced to leave just because the move makes no sense.
That's a little extreme....40% made the dance from each conference. To say 2 teams that made the dance are "crap" is a bit much.
Understand your opinion, what I still have trouble squaring with is this idea that Buzz thinks the conference isn't very good and yet Buzz shat the bed in this conference he says isn't very good, despite having (on paper) the best or second best team in the conference. I find that more than a bit ironic that he is blaming the conference, television coverage (every game on television) for his inability as a coach this year.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 22, 2014, 09:51:10 AM
That's a little extreme....40% made the dance from each conference. To say 2 teams that made the dance are "crap" is a bit much.
Understand your opinion, what I still have trouble squaring with is this idea that Buzz thinks the conference isn't very good and yet Buzz shat the bed in this conference he says isn't very good, despite having (on paper) the best or second best team in the conference. I find that more than a bit ironic that he is blaming the conference, television coverage (every game on television) for his inability as a coach this year.
+1
Who is at fault the conference did not have 5 teams? Buzz! He had the best team going in. He more than anyone else caused the conference problems this year and then blames the conference when leaving?
Please
IMO, Buzz did a crappy job coaching this year, and the new Big East is a crappy conference.
Who doesn't think MU would go to the ACC if given the chance?
Quote from: WarriorGreg1965 on March 22, 2014, 10:00:12 AM
IMO, Buzz did a crappy job coaching this year, and the new Big East is a crappy conference.
Who doesn't think MU would go to the ACC if given the chance?
But that is never going to happen. As such, the Big East is the best basketball only conference in the country and was rated 4th best overall, including higher than the ACC.
So when people say it is a crappy conference, in comparison to what? The Big 12, Big Ten, Pac 12? OK, fine. Are there better teams in some other conferences...of course. Are other conferences top to bottom necessarily better? No. For all the Dukes, UNCs, Virginias, there is Va Tech (ironic), Ga Tech, Boston College, etc. Three teams in the ACC actually finished WORSE than DePaul in the RPI.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 22, 2014, 10:04:27 AM
But that is never going to happen. As such, the Big East is the best basketball only conference in the country and was rated 4th best overall, including higher than the ACC.
So when people say it is a crappy conference, in comparison to what? The Big 12, Big Ten, Pac 12? OK, fine. Are there better teams in some other conferences...of course. Are other conferences top to bottom necessarily better? No. For all the Dukes, UNCs, Virginias, there is Va Tech (ironic), Ga Tech, Boston College, etc. Three teams in the ACC actually finished WORSE than DePaul in the RPI.
+1
It is impossible for us to go to the ACC or B1G as football drives the decisions and we do not have a football team. So stop with this.
CBB is right, the NBE is the best possible situation for non-football schools. It's will get better in the next few years as we poach the A10 and/or Horizon (we poach them as the NBE means more money for them).
Hmmm... after seeing Buzz's interview on CBS (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24496651/video-buzz-williams-talks-new-job-at-virginia-tech) today, I think it makes my point a lot more valid.
He wasn't fired, nor do I think he was forced out. He seemed genuinely happy and excited about the opportunity at Va. Tech. He even went on to say that he "likes the challenge" of bringing a team like the Hokies from the bottom to the top and joining "the premier basketball conference in America".
"I'm not the kind of person to say atodaso, but atodaso... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1h11xZ86MY)"
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 06:33:34 PM
Hmmm... after seeing Buzz's interview on CBS (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24496651/video-buzz-williams-talks-new-job-at-virginia-tech) today, I think it makes my point a lot more valid.
He wasn't fired, nor do I think he was forced out. He seemed genuinely happy and excited about the opportunity at Va. Tech. He even went on to say that he "likes the challenge" of bringing a team like the Hokies from the bottom to the top and joining "the premier basketball conference in America".
"I'm not the kind of person to say atodaso, but atodaso... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1h11xZ86MY)"
Bro, are you serious?
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 06:33:34 PM
Hmmm... after seeing Buzz's interview on CBS (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24496651/video-buzz-williams-talks-new-job-at-virginia-tech) today, I think it makes my point a lot more valid.
He wasn't fired, nor do I think he was forced out. He seemed genuinely happy and excited about the opportunity at Va. Tech. He even went on to say that he "likes the challenge" of bringing a team like the Hokies from the bottom to the top and joining "the premier basketball conference in America".
"I'm not the kind of person to say atodaso, but atodaso... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1h11xZ86MY)"
He also looked uncomfortable and dodged the first question, "Why did you leave?"
Something(s) definitely happened behind the scenes. While we may never know what, we do know there was something that pushed him out.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 06:33:34 PM
Hmmm... after seeing Buzz's interview on CBS (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24496651/video-buzz-williams-talks-new-job-at-virginia-tech) today, I think it makes my point a lot more valid.
He wasn't fired, nor do I think he was forced out. He seemed genuinely happy and excited about the opportunity at Va. Tech. He even went on to say that he "likes the challenge" of bringing a team like the Hokies from the bottom to the top and joining "the premier basketball conference in America".
"I'm not the kind of person to say atodaso, but atodaso... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1h11xZ86MY)"
You think if he was shown the door he would've came out and said, "Well, Marquette wouldn't have me back." I think I could've answered the questions the exact same way he did, and I've never coached basketball in my life and am not the former coach of Marquette and new coach of Virginia Tech.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on March 22, 2014, 06:37:39 PM
Bro, are you serious?
He has to be serious. I mean, it's totally logical that a 41-year old father of four children takes a $1.5 million dollar pay cut and moves his family half way across the country for a less prestigious job because of conference realignment.
Makes perfect sense.
He literally said that he looks forward to the challenge of entering the premier conference in America. I look forward to hearing more details about why he was "shoved out" of Marquette..but you can't put on a straight face and tell me there's actual evidence he was shown the door right now. It's pure speculation and Scoopers getting anonymous tips from people.
It seems at this point in his life he wanted a change and used a 17-15 year as the time to do it. Sorry if you think I'm crazy, but that's almost exactly what he said in the interview.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 09:48:02 AM
but wouldn't Buzz tell his players the REAL story behind closed doors? These are the young men he mentored for 1-6 years of their career, I'd like to think he'd be real with them...especially if he indeed was forced out. Don't think his own players would bash his decision in that way if he was forced out.
Sure, because egomaniacs are really good about discussing personal failure.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 06:45:43 PM
He literally said that he looks forward to the challenge of entering the premier conference in America. I look forward to hearing more details about why he was "shoved out" of Marquette..but you can't put on a straight face and tell me there's actual evidence he was shown the door right now. It's pure speculation and Scoopers getting anonymous tips from people.
It seems at this point in his life he wanted a change and used a 17-15 year as the time to do it. Sorry if you think I'm crazy, but that's almost exactly what he said in the interview.
Do you not comprehend the concept of positive spin?
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 06:45:43 PM
He literally said that he looks forward to the challenge of entering the premier conference in America. I look forward to hearing more details about why he was "shoved out" of Marquette..but you can't put on a straight face and tell me there's actual evidence he was shown the door right now. It's pure speculation and Scoopers getting anonymous tips from people.
It seems at this point in his life he wanted a change and used a 17-15 year as the time to do it. Sorry if you think I'm crazy, but that's almost exactly what he said in the interview.
As CBB pointed out earlier in this thread, 4 leagues had a better a RPI than the ACC. One was the BEast. Can you show me actual evidence that the ACC is the premier conference in college basketball as buzz claims it is?
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 06:33:34 PM
Hmmm... after seeing Buzz's interview on CBS (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24496651/video-buzz-williams-talks-new-job-at-virginia-tech) today, I think it makes my point a lot more valid.
He wasn't fired, nor do I think he was forced out. He seemed genuinely happy and excited about the opportunity at Va. Tech. He even went on to say that he "likes the challenge" of bringing a team like the Hokies from the bottom to the top and joining "the premier basketball conference in America".
"I'm not the kind of person to say atodaso, but atodaso... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1h11xZ86MY)"
WTFO??
Quote from: ElDonBDon on March 22, 2014, 02:09:50 AM
Here's my theory de l'heure
The team sucked this year. Buzz didn't like hearing jeers from fans. Buzz does not see anyone stepping and taking the leader role a la Vander, DJO/Jae, JFB, Lazar, etc. He's confident that next year could be worse than this year. Two years missing the NIT? Buzz thinks to himself, surely Marquette will can me and who will take me then? I better sell now, as my stock is only going to fall if I stay an additional year.
Other coaches/ADs/etc realize "hey maybe Buzz isn't that great after all." Folks in the media are saying that Buzz was actually interested in the Auburn job. AUBURN! That should lay to rest the whole Buzz-left-for-the-better-conference theory. Think about it. Do you think Shaka Smart leaves VCU to coach Clemson? Would Mark Few leaves the Zags to coach at DePaul simply because it's a much better league?
Perhaps this season exposed Buzz for who he is--someone who relies heavily on senior leadership. Buzz needs a fourth assistant coach, if you will. Why do you think his calls went from Oklahoma, Oregon, and UCLA to USF, Auburn, and VTech? Buzz was exposed and the coaching world knew it. KO pointed it out when calling games. His exposure is evidenced further given the fact that neither Wake nor BC gave Buzz a blink.
Boom.
Relevancy. You have to stay relevant.
Problem is: you leave behind short tenures with some success but never really show you're good enough for the long run.
And bottom line to that is: you continually get paid to rebuild and raise expectations, making you look like a messiah.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 06:45:43 PM
I look forward to hearing more details about why he was "shoved out" of Marquette..but you can't put on a straight face and tell me there's actual evidence he was shown the door right now.
Actual evidence:
1) $4.0 Million > $2.5 Million;
2) Buzz's own admission of "changed" relationships;
3) Marquette made no counter offer or even engaged in negotiations.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 22, 2014, 07:23:38 PM
Actual evidence:
3) Marquette made no counter offer or even engaged in negotiations.
Marquette stipulated specific expectations and BW refused to accept those conditions so it was time to part ways.
Quote from: keefe on March 22, 2014, 07:26:40 PM
Marquette stipulated specific expectations and BW refused to accept those conditions so it was time to part ways.
You've said this a few times. What exactly were these expectations?
Quote from: keefe on March 22, 2014, 07:26:40 PM
Marquette stipulated specific expectations and BW refused to accept those conditions so it was time to part ways.
Right. As I understand it dollars were never even discussed. Just basically mutual agreement it was time to go at the end of what has been basically a 2-3 year long process.
And, no, I was not in the room.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 22, 2014, 07:28:04 PM
You've said this a few times. What exactly were these expectations?
Player conduct.
Handling of disciplinary issues.
Parameters for recruiting.
Admission standards.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 22, 2014, 07:31:33 PM
Player conduct.
Handling of disciplinary issues.
Parameters for recruiting.
Admission standards.
Yep.
Quote from: keefe on March 22, 2014, 07:33:40 PM
Yep.
Sounds like you heard the same. Those were the broad strokes I got. Looking back, it isn't really anything we hadn't heard before about the tense relationship between our former coach and the administration.
The guy who I believe first broke the news about the lower buyout said "minnesota would have gotten Buzz, but the buyout was too much." That was when the buyout was $2M.
The buyout was lowered to $100k. What does that mean? That means Marquette virtually put Buzz on the market. Roughly speaking, it went from "you wanna buy Buzz from us, pony up $2M" to "you wanna buy Buzz from us, just give us $100k and we'll call it a deal."
Buzz has to put VT in the most positive light possible, it's only rational.
Quote from: Buchec18 on March 22, 2014, 06:45:43 PM
I look forward to hearing more details about why he was "shoved out" of Marquette..but you can't put on a straight face and tell me there's actual evidence he was shown the door right now. It's pure speculation and Scoopers getting anonymous tips from people.
Sorry if some Scoopers let their pure speculation get in the way of your pure speculation.
Quote from: MU82 on March 22, 2014, 11:14:05 PM
Sorry if some Scoopers let their pure speculation get in the way of your pure speculation.
Amazing. Somehow, I can't imagine Shirley Povich or Jim Murray writing an atrocious article based on nothing but a subject's spin doctoring then heckling, baiting, and insulting their readers. Who is this writer?
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 22, 2014, 07:31:33 PM
Player conduct.
Handling of disciplinary issues.
Parameters for recruiting.
Admission standards.
All I can say is I hope that the Admin's "expectations" are not so high as to limit our ability to have a winning program. High D1 Basketball is about talent. To get that talent you have to take some chances with admissions. Many of these talented kids come from very rough backgrounds. You can't be on them 24/7. Things are going to happen. I don't want to end up with a program like Northwestern.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 22, 2014, 06:38:58 PM
You think if he was shown the door he would've came out and said, "Well, Marquette wouldn't have me back." I think I could've answered the questions the exact same way he did, and I've never coached basketball in my life and am not the former coach of Marquette and new coach of Virginia Tech.
Never say your employer would not have you back. No one believes your employer was wrong, they believe you FU'ed.