MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PaintTouchesSays on March 18, 2014, 03:30:05 PM
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Why Derrick Wilson is not to blame for the MU offense
Every team not playing in a postseason tournament has its scapegoat, and there’s no denying who the public has deemed the cause for Marquette’s woes in 2013-14. But is it justified? Derrick Wilson was expected to enter the starting point guard role after playing Junior Cadougan’s understudy as a freshman and sophomore. The two players […]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=painttouches.com&blog=28348875&post=11493&subd=painttouches&ref=&feed=1" width="1" height="1" />
Source: Why Derrick Wilson is not to blame for the MU offense (http://painttouches.com/2014/03/18/why-derrick-wilson-is-not-to-blame-for-the-mu-offense/)
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Cue Ners in 3, 2, 1...
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Yeah, this should be fun. I guess it goes without saying that I agree with most of it.
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Well written article. I will not blame any individual player, as teams win and lose together, but having said that, winning teams do not have a starting point guard (who plays 31 minutes a game) and shoots 7% from 3PT% and 44% from FT%. Derrick did his best this season. That's all anyone can ask. Hopefully he puts in the work this summer and improves upon those numbers.
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Good article. The problem was in a down offensive year for the team, Wilson's ineptitude on that end of the floor was magnified, big time. I definitely agree with the paragraph on Jamil Wilson--he got away relatively unscathed when it came to criticism compared to D. Wilson. He was postiively dreadful--including two clanks at the end of the Xavier BEast tourney game.
My only beef with the article is the quote, "Perhaps Dawson could have done more in extended minutes, but it’s unlikely." That's a little flippant for my liking. Dawson did indeed have flahses of greatness so who's to say that he couldn't have showed that in extended stretches while developing into a trustworthy point guard. I know he's not Mayo, but look what he did once he started seeing the floor more. The fact is nobody knows what what Dawson would have done in extended minutes--so to say that it's unlikely that he would have had success is totally unfair (if only extrapolated from a tiny sample size).
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I like that Strottie says that Deonte should have gotten more minutes. IMO, he should have been the 5th starter, along with the Wilson's, Jake, and CO. Gotten another offensive minded player into the starting line up. Mayo comes in for either him or Jake. Juan comes in for defensive minutes for Jamil with Gardner and Mayo in the game. Ah, well. Bygones.
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Maybe this is wishful thinking. But is it possible that D. Wilson just shoots thousands of jumpers a day in the offseason and becomes a signficantly better shooter. I'd be curious to know what he's done in the past to improve his shooting and how often he does it. I would just think that an athletic guy like himself would be able to will himself to become a better shooter if he really set his mind to it. Is this ignorant?
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Good article. The problem was in a down offensive year for the team, Wilson's ineptitude on that end of the floor was magnified, big time. I definitely agree with the paragraph on Jamil Wilson--he got away relatively unscathed when it came to criticism compared to D. Wilson. He was postiively dreadful--including two clanks at the end of the Xavier BEast tourney game.
My only beef with the article is the quote, "Perhaps Dawson could have done more in extended minutes, but it’s unlikely." That's a little flippant for my liking. Dawson did indeed have flahses of greatness so who's to say that he couldn't have showed that in extended stretches while developing into a trustworthy point guard. I know he's not Mayo, but look what he did once he started seeing the floor more. The fact is nobody knows what what Dawson would have done in extended minutes--so to say that it's unlikely that he would have had success is totally unfair (if only extrapolated from a tiny sample size).
When Dawson did get extended minutes he did do more.
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One of the most important responsibilities that a parent/teacher/coach has is to push and help a child/student/player reach his, or her, full potential.
However, when a kid is pushed beyond his limits, it can do real damage to his sense of self-worth and confidence.
Derrick had less confidence at the last five games of the season than he did at any point during the season. In contrast, Jake Thomas during the 32 game season grew and pretty much reached his full potential.
I can't help but believe that Coach Williams asked way too much of Wilson, and played him way too many minutes. Wilson did not defend as well at the end of this season as he did as a sophomore. There were times when he was obviously gassed, but he was not pulled off the floor. His shooting the last five games ... well, what can you say - nonexistent? The "there was no alternative" is ingenuous.
I am a great fan of PT, and I appreciate what you are trying to do in this article. However, look at valueadded.com, or apply the in-depth analysis you have done in the past. If one takes 58 percent of his shoots from around the rim and has a shooting percentage of 44 percent, while playing 30 plus minutes, what does it tell you?
It tells me that Coach Williams may have done a great disservice to what seems to be a hell of good kid, who works his ass off, and who is obviously a great team-mate.
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This team just had too many flaws. You could point at any single player as a problem and you would be right. I love DG and think the guy is a beast, but he leaves a lot to be desired on defense. Jamil....where do I even start? Those two missed free throws in the BET were a reflection of his Senior season. Derrick...well known flaws. Juan is a good defender, but a liability on offense. And the list just goes on and on.
To top it all off the team appeared to have no leader, though you could make a case Todd stepped in to that role later in the season.
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One of the most important responsibilities that a parent/teacher/coach has is to push and help a child/student/player reach his, or her, full potential.
However, when a kid is pushed beyond his limits, it can do real damage to his sense of self-worth and confidence.
Derrick had less confidence at the last five games of the season than he did at any point during the season. In contrast, Jake Thomas during the 32 game season grew and pretty much reached his full potential.
I can't help but believe that Coach Williams asked way too much of Wilson, and played him way too many minutes. Wilson did not defend as well at the end of this season as he did as a sophomore. There were times when he was obviously gassed, but he was not pulled off the floor. His shooting the last five games ... well, what can you say - nonexistent? The "there was no alternative" is ingenuous.
I am a great fan of PT, and I appreciate what you are trying to do in this article. However, look at valueadded.com, or apply the in-depth analysis you have done in the past. If one takes 58 percent of his shoots from around the rim and has a shooting percentage of 44 percent, while playing 30 plus minutes, what does it tell you?
It tells me that Coach Williams may have done a great disservice to what seems to be a hell of good kid, who works his ass off, and who is obviously a great team-mate.
+1,000 on post 1,000
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It is not fair to Dawson to compare his numbers to Dwil's. Dawson's numbers would have likely improved as the season went on (through natural maturation, game-time experience analyzed in film, etc.), while Dwil's, as we saw, did not.
Dwil's man sags on defense, which clogs the lane for Mayo/paint for Gardner. Dawson's man can't afford to sag. Compare the two PGs along that dimension.
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Wilson screwed up our offense by allowing teams to sag off him and clog the lane and help d easier.
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One word to Paint Touches analysis: Nonsense.
Here's where the real answers lie: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42641.0
Everyone seemed to overlook Sugar's analysis...which I've attached here. Do you really believe losing Vander Blue and Trent Lockett is what explains our plummet in ranking in eFG% this season?? Ranked 112 in the nation last year, and fell all the way to 223 this year...far and away the worst ranking in Buzz's tenure..our offense ranked 78th in the country, after ranking 25 last year....and in Buzz's other seasons: 12, 22, 21,52. Did Buzz all of a sudden forget how to coach offense?? What's different this past season?? Fell 53 spots nationally in Offensive Ranking?? Was Trent Lockett a model of offensive efficiency? It's already been shown Mayo played more efficiently in every category this past season than Vander...so let's not say its the loss of Vander to blame....the sole reason is the loss of Junior Cadougan....put him on this team and it is an NCAA tourney in the blink of an eye...
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Strotty is a good guy, I swear. Please don't lynch him.
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Strotty is a good guy, I swear. Please don't lynch him.
I don't have any issue with Strotty...and don't doubt he's a good guy...and generally does a great job with his analysis. Being as close in age as he is to the players, and as close to the program as he is....it is hard to write a critical piece...and Buzz of course has been the leader in the defend Derrick camp/Derrick's biggest cheerleader..so hard to be in Strotty's place and write a damning article on Derrick. Obviously, Strotty wants to have an amicable relationship with Buzz...and Buzz is very tuned in to what is written about his team...and I don't doubt for a second Strotty doesn't want to draw the wrath of Buzz...
I say that from the perspective of when I was very close to the program during my college years...albeit not in a "media" capacity...that it is hard to be critical of anyone that you work closely with/near in the setting of college athletics...
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Ok--Buzz is to blame, and he continues to slobber all over Derrick.
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If you're a high major PG getting 30+ mpg and you go 0/5 (0%) from three and 20/54 (37%) from the FT line in conference play wihtout an astronomical assist rate, you're probably a large part of the offensive problem.
Note that I made no reference to defense above, as that is not what the discussion is about, so it is irrelevant.
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I did not even read the article as there is only one or two people who should be criticized, the assistant who thought he could play and Buzz saying OK lets go after him. Derrick is a very nice kid that his talent is really Division 2 or 3 ability. You can not play 4 on 5 and on this team with Juan in, 3 on 5. He probably could play for the Badgers as they have good offensive players all around. Never seen a kid rush the ball up the court so quickly but once there backed it out all the time as he had no idea how to create a shot for his teammates or for himself. The worst shooter of any point guard in the country, go watch, them all this weekend and find one worse, coaches fault, no one other. The entertainment value was really low, hard to watch this team.
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Well written article. Matches what I've been saying all year. Expectations. No one should have expected more of Derrick Wilson. We knew what we were getting when Junior left. I know I at least expected a lot more out of other players.
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Well written article. Matches what I've been saying all year. Expectations. No one should have expected more of Derrick Wilson. We knew what we were getting when Junior left. I know I at least expected a lot more out of other players.
Agreed, but did you really think he would be that bad? I am sure not. Truly he was bad. Badgers have 2 points better, UW for sure as one and GB not even close.
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I did not even read the article as there is only one or two people who should be criticized, the assistant who thought he could play and Buzz saying OK lets go after him. Derrick is a very nice kid that his talent is really Division 2 or 3 ability. You can not play 4 on 5 and on this team with Juan in, 3 on 5. He probably could play for the Badgers as they have good offensive players all around. Never seen a kid rush the ball up the court so quickly but once there backed it out all the time as he had no idea how to create a shot for his teammates or for himself. The worst shooter of any point guard in the country, go watch, them all this weekend and find one worse, coaches fault, no one other. The entertainment value was really low, hard to watch this team.
He averaged 20+ ppg in high school and was ranked as the #30 PG in his class. I don't really blame Buzz for giving him a shot
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Agreed, but did you really think he would be that bad? I am sure not. Truly he was bad. Badgers have 2 points better, UW for sure as one and GB not even close.
Go back and check my post history. I predicted apx. 4.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, and 4.0 apg. He exceeded my expectations. However, I didn't anticipate how much the sagging defense would impact the offense.
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He averaged 20+ ppg in high school and was ranked as the #30 PG in his class. I don't really blame Buzz for giving him a shot
Really, he is physically able to go inside and score on high school kids, has an NFL body, but I think any coach can see if a kid has the ability to score from the outside. Ratings mean nothing,
after the first 20 kids in the Top 100, most of them struggle the first few years in college, different game. His free throw form is atrocious. I bet there is not one girl on the womens team that is worse then him.
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Thank you for writing this.
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Well written article. Matches what I've been saying all year. Expectations. No one should have expected more of Derrick Wilson. We knew what we were getting when Junior left. I know I at least expected a lot more out of other players.
It becomes virtually impossible for other players to succeed when the PG they play with is the most offensively challenged player on the floor. Why Jamil and Davante didn't take HUGE strides forward this season, is largely due to the starting backcourt...more Derrick than Jake's limitations.
My beef throughout it all was Buzz's absolute reluctance to ever just give Dawson 30 minutes for 3-5 games through thick or thin....and get a data point as to what we might get with him running Point for 30 minutes....but give him a fair sample size, and opportunity to play through mistakes. We had all the data we needed on Derrick to show what the team would look like with him playing 30+...and it didn't look pretty..
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It becomes virtually impossible for other players to succeed when the PG they play with is the most offensively challenged player on the floor. Why Jamil and Davante didn't take HUGE strides forward this season, is largely due to the starting backcourt...more Derrick than Jake's limitations.
Right, and Derrick probably gave Davante the flu during the SDSU game. Seriously, do you think anything negative about this team is anyone's fault besides Derrick?
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I don't blame Derrick so much as the entire roster actually, but Buzz is the person responsible for putting him in a position where he failed. Derrick is who he is and he'll be the same next year. Question is will Buzz put him in position to fail again and drag the team down for another year.
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Right, and Derrick probably gave Davante the flu during the SDSU game. Seriously, do you think anything negative about this team is anyone's fault besides Derrick?
Look at all the statistical numbers TAMU - far and away Buzz's worst team offensively in his tenure. Everyone returned from team except Vander, Lockett and Cadougan. Lockett was no offensive stud. VAnder/Mayo this year are practically a wash...
AT the end of the day...I blame Buzz...he controls playing time allocation...and starting lineups...no reason to play Derrick with 3 other offensively limited players - JAke, Juan, Otule. Mayo was underutilized all year, along with Burton and Gardner....and that all falls on Buzz...
But yes, to answer your question....Derrick's significant limitations are the reason this team is not in the NCAA. PG is to basketball what QB is to football team....without a good one/decent one...doesn't matter a whole lot how good the other guys around you are..
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Ryan Arcidiacono 114.6 ORtg, .506 eFG%
Austin Chatman 115.6 ORtg, .492 eFG%
Bryce Cotton 121.9 ORtg, .483 eFG%
Dee Davis 110.3 ORtg, .500 eFG%
D'Angelo Harrisonn 109.4 ORtg, .436 eFG%
Markel Starks 111.9 ORtg, .480 eFG%
Sterling Gibbs 113.1 ORtg, .467 eFG%
Alex Barlow 109.7 ORtg, .468 eFG%
Billy Garrett 106.9 ORtg, .430 eFG%
Derrick Wilson 97.2 ORtg, .403 eFG%
Derrick Wilson is dead last in the two most important offensive statistics compared to every other point guard in the Big East.
Come to your own conclusions.
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Awesome - this is kind of like putting lipstick on the pig... - Ok, slurpers sitting at home watching Marquette sit at home this weekend - how many of you will sign up for being perfectly happy with 30+ mins per game of Derrick Wilson at PG next year?
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Ryan Arcidiacono 114.6 ORtg, .506 eFG%
Austin Chatman 115.6 ORtg, .492 eFG%
Bryce Cotton 121.9 ORtg, .483 eFG%
Dee Davis 110.3 ORtg, .500 eFG%
D'Angelo Harrisonn 109.4 ORtg, .436 eFG%
Markel Starks 111.9 ORtg, .480 eFG%
Sterling Gibbs 113.1 ORtg, .467 eFG%
Alex Barlow 109.7 ORtg, .468 eFG%
Billy Garrett 106.9 ORtg, .430 eFG%
Derrick Wilson 97.2 ORtg, .403 eFG%
Derrick Wilson is dead last in the two most important offensive statistics compared to every other point guard in the Big East.
Come to your own conclusions.
But wait...it's okay because we didn't expect him to be very good....he played to his expectations (that some had of him), therefore it isn't his fault the team didn't make tourney...Jamil regressed from a 109.8 ORating as a junior to 102.5...I highly doubt his game got WORSE with an offseason of work. Gardner's ORating stayed pretty similar from junior year to senior year 123.2 as junior to 122.2 as a senior...yet notably his rating jumped from 118.1 as a sophomore...interesting there was no improvement as a senior - again, highly doubt his game, conditioning, etc., regressed with another off season of work and experience.
Would be interesting to see how Jake ranked against the other 2 guards in the league..
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Wilson's numbers really were terrible for a starting PG. That's the first time I looked at them compared to the league. I shouldn't have done that as it makes me even more disappointed regarding the 32 games I endured this season having seen that comparison.
Sorry scoopers.
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Ha Ha Ners - the joke is on you! You had expected Marquette to start a PG that had offensive capability to win games against good teams.
But wait...it's okay because we didn't expect him to be very good....he played to his expectations (that some had of him), therefore it isn't his fault the team didn't make tourney...Jamil regressed from a 109.8 ORating as a junior to 102.5...I highly doubt his game got WORSE with an offseason of work. Gardner's ORating stayed pretty similar from junior year to senior year 123.2 as junior to 122.2 as a senior...yet notably his rating jumped from 118.1 as a sophomore...interesting there was no improvement as a senior - again, highly doubt his game, conditioning, etc., regressed with another off season of work and experience.
Would be interesting to see how Jake ranked against the other 2 guards in the league..
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Ryan Arcidiacono 114.6 ORtg, .506 eFG%
Austin Chatman 115.6 ORtg, .492 eFG%
Bryce Cotton 121.9 ORtg, .483 eFG%
Dee Davis 110.3 ORtg, .500 eFG%
D'Angelo Harrisonn 109.4 ORtg, .436 eFG%
Markel Starks 111.9 ORtg, .480 eFG%
Sterling Gibbs 113.1 ORtg, .467 eFG%
Alex Barlow 109.7 ORtg, .468 eFG%
Billy Garrett 106.9 ORtg, .430 eFG%
Derrick Wilson 97.2 ORtg, .403 eFG%
Derrick Wilson is dead last in the two most important offensive statistics compared to every other point guard in the Big East.
Come to your own conclusions.
Numbers don't lie.
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Ha Ha Ners - the joke is on you! You had expected Marquette to start a PG that had offensive capability to win games against good teams.
You know, it's one thing if your max minute player is at least just in the area/zip code of the other guys at his position in the league.....but in addition to being dead last....his eFG and ORating aren't even in the zip code...huge disparity which is evident when simply watching the games...
Now...I know...some may say Dawson's ORating was less...yet...Ken Pomroy doesn't even assisn an ORating to a player in games they play less than 10 minutes...Dawson only had 4 games where he played more than 10 minutes....and for the season in all the games he played in..he averaged 11 minutes with one huge outlier - Georgetown - and what do you know, that's the one huge outlier in his ORating.
That was the frustration all year long...Buzz never was willing to give Dawson a fair chance when he had all kinds of data it was going to be a bitch with Derrick running PG. Oh well. Bygones. But really, no excuse for Buzz on this next year if he doesn't drastically shift PT allocation.
In my view, Derrick sure as hell didn't "earn" the PT he got based on his game performances.
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In my view, Derrick sure as hell didn't "earn" the PT he got based on his game performances.
...and Gardner is getting heat in another topic at this same time.
What does that say about Scoop's basketball IQ?
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De Wilson is a good Division II PG. Definitely not a D I. His defense is poor. His offense is not existent. It's easy to see he cannot dominate the other player. He is out played in most games. The big question is why would Buzz Play an inferior talented PG all season? It cost him the season and perhaps his job.
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Ryan Arcidiacono 114.6 ORtg, .506 eFG%
Austin Chatman 115.6 ORtg, .492 eFG%
Bryce Cotton 121.9 ORtg, .483 eFG%
Dee Davis 110.3 ORtg, .500 eFG%
D'Angelo Harrisonn 109.4 ORtg, .436 eFG%
Markel Starks 111.9 ORtg, .480 eFG%
Sterling Gibbs 113.1 ORtg, .467 eFG%
Alex Barlow 109.7 ORtg, .468 eFG%
Billy Garrett 106.9 ORtg, .430 eFG%
Derrick Wilson 97.2 ORtg, .403 eFG%
Derrick Wilson is dead last in the two most important offensive statistics compared to every other point guard in the Big East.
Come to your own conclusions.
The difference in ORtg between #2 (Chatman) and #9 (Garrett) is less than the difference between #9 (Garrett) and #10 (Wilson). And Garrett was a freshman for DePaul. :o
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...and Gardner is getting heat in another topic at this same time.
What does that say about Scoop's basketball IQ?
I know....can't believe Gardner has gotten heat..last guy on team who should. Says all you need to know about SOME Scooper's basketball IQ...although as egregious as it is to call out Gardner...I'd say that's not as egregious as trying to argue Derrick wasn't THEE problem that caused this team to flounder. At the end of the day, again, it isn't Derrick's fault per se - it is Buzz's - Buzz should have seen he was completely overmatched at offensive end and made a change..even if it resulted in a couple more turnovers per game..
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He averaged 20+ ppg in high school and was ranked as the #30 PG in his class. I don't really blame Buzz for giving him a shot
Will you blame Buzz if he gives Derrick another shot next season? Not stoking the fire or anything, you're a more-than-solid poster, and I'm curious about your answer
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I never said that Wilson was that good. I said he was better than Dawson. mattyv, pop up those numbers again.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/marquette-golden-eagles
I got Derrick at a 2.8/1 A/TO. Dawson 1.4. I got Derrick shooting .391 from the field. I got Dawson shooting .320. I got Dawson with one offensive rebound all year. Dawson kills Derrick on 3's and FT's. As bad as Derrick was, the contention that Dawson would have been better is based on wishful thinking. Not stats. But, I know all of the coming arguments. It isn't like this point hasn't been hashed out once or twice before. I am not going to change anyone's mind. We are all frustrated. In the end, I saw Derrick as A problem, not THE problem and I didn't see a better alternative. It sucks.
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4 on 5, the whole year. The blame goes on the coach for putting the young man in a no win situation. He obviously has no offensive capability to compete at this level and we played a. His defense is competitive for sure and can key some fast breaks. He should be a defensive situation sub with time limited to about 10 minutes a game. Also any point guard shooting .442 from the line is automatically disqualified from participating in crunch time in my view. Again the blame goes to the coach not the kid. He tried as hard as he possibly could.
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Well written Strotty. Good to see that one more person gets it. You hit the nail on the head by saying that most of the criticism is from people who look at scoring numbers and seem to ignore everything else, and who continue to ignore the fact that none of our four seniors stepped up as a "go to" guy.
Derrick has huge shooting issues, but he was not the biggest problem on this year's team.
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I personally think Derrick is a very good backup point guard. If he was playing 10-12 minutes a game, like last year, I think we'd be very happy. He'd take care of the ball, make some passes and be able to play tougher defense without worrying about fouling out. Unfortunately for him and us, he wasn't able to play in that role.
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Numbers don't lie.
or as Professor Lowenstein (sp?) used to say back in the early 80's, figures don't lie, but liars do figure!
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Well written Strotty. Good to see that one more person gets it. You hit the nail on the head by saying that most of the criticism is from people who look at scoring numbers and seem to ignore everything else, and who continue to ignore the fact that none of our four seniors stepped up as a "go to" guy.
Derrick has huge shooting issues, but he was not the biggest problem on this year's team.
Please enlighten us all....
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/marquette-golden-eagles
I got Derrick at a 2.8/1 A/TO. Dawson 1.4. I got Derrick shooting .391 from the field. I got Dawson shooting .320. I got Dawson with one offensive rebound all year. Dawson kills Derrick on 3's and FT's. As bad as Derrick was, the contention that Dawson would have been better is based on wishful thinking. Not stats. But, I know all of the coming arguments. It isn't like this point hasn't been hashed out once or twice before. I am not going to change anyone's mind. We are all frustrated. In the end, I saw Derrick as A problem, not THE problem and I didn't see a better alternative. It sucks.
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/30/how-carmelo-anthony-helps-the-knicks-score-more-efficiently-beyond-his-own-points/
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/marquette-golden-eagles
I got Derrick at a 2.8/1 A/TO. Dawson 1.4. I got Derrick shooting .391 from the field. I got Dawson shooting .320. I got Dawson with one offensive rebound all year. Dawson kills Derrick on 3's and FT's. As bad as Derrick was, the contention that Dawson would have been better is based on wishful thinking. Not stats. But, I know all of the coming arguments. It isn't like this point hasn't been hashed out once or twice before. I am not going to change anyone's mind. We are all frustrated. In the end, I saw Derrick as A problem, not THE problem and I didn't see a better alternative. It sucks.
No...there are stats that show if Dawson was given a similar opportunity..he'd be better...problem is...Buzz only gave him 1 game: Georgetown. Can you imagine what Derrick's numbers would look like if he got Dawson's scrap minutes?? Wait...here's an indication..Derrick's Freshman year:
33 8.8 0.6 1.1 0.7 0.6 0.0 0.3 .375 .471 .000
Sophomore Year:
35 13.1 1.1 0.9 1.6 0.7 0.0 0.5 .273 .450 .143
Dawson Freshman Year (Note...he could only get minutes in 24 games even though he was playing behind quite possibly the worst starting PG in the last 10 years in Big East)
24 10.2 2.0 1.1 1.0 0.1 0.0 0.7 .320 .818 .269
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I don't believe Derrick is solely responsible for this season. However, The one part of the article I strongly disagree with is this
"Those who say Marquette was “playing 4-on-5″ with Wilson in the game looked solely at his scoring. In that sense, those people are correct. A point guard averaging 5.0 points per game on 39 percent shooting isn’t going to win enough games, but he never played outside of his limitations and succeeded in other offensive areas.
Where Wilson did more than he was given credit for was in his passing. His 2.81 A/TO ratio (135 asts/48 TOs) was the second best mark among starting Marquette point guards under Williams (Maurice Acker, 3.09). And that 2.81 mark was tied for 29th best in the country, while Marquette as a team had its lowest turnover rate (17.5 percent) since 2010, when the Golden Eagles’ 16.0 percent mark was seventh best in the nation."
I do think MU was playing 4 on 5, and it has nothing to do with the scoring statistics. No one ever covered Derrick. He had few turn overs because often he was not even guarded! Devante, Jamil and even Chris got less touches and rarely received he ball in a good scoring position. Derrick could not make many passes because the inside guys were double covered by derricks man. A lot harder to pass inside when your man plays 4 feet off of you!
We don't need Derrick to be a scoring machine, but we do need him to make more than 1 outside shot every month. If he does not improve his shooting, and still gets 35 minutes a game next year, it will be the same kind of disappointing year. He does not have to score a lot, just make a defender pay when he is left wide open.
He needs to shoot 1000 shots a day till October!!
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Whoever asked for efficiency stats for Wilson compared to Dawson, while Wilson did have better offensive efficiency numbers for the season they just about leveled off if you look only at the conference efficiency numbers.
Perhaps Dawson got better. Perhaps Wilson regressed.
Let's address one thing though after I peaked at the conference numbers again - Derrick Wilson had a higher TO% in conference play than Todd Mayo.
Todd may appear careless with the ball at times, but typically it's because he's being aggressive and often times later in the shot clock.
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Here's how Wilson ranks in all the advanced stats this year against the rest of this year's roster.
PER (player efficiency rating) - 8th
TS% (true shooting %) - 10th
eFG% - 9th
ORB% - 7th
DRB% - 12th
TRB% - 9th
AST% - 1st
STL% - 3rd
BLK% -11th
TO% -10th
USG% (usage percentage in offensive play) - 12th
PProd - 5th
ORtg - 8th
DRtg - 9th
OWS (offensive win shares) - 7th
DWS (defensive win shares) - 2nd
WS/40 - 9th
Minutes played - 2nd (trailed Jake Thomas by 2 minutes)
Scoopers you make the call regarding his value and whether or not he deserves criticism.
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Ryan Arcidiacono 114.6 ORtg, .506 eFG%
Austin Chatman 115.6 ORtg, .492 eFG%
Bryce Cotton 121.9 ORtg, .483 eFG%
Dee Davis 110.3 ORtg, .500 eFG%
D'Angelo Harrisonn 109.4 ORtg, .436 eFG%
Markel Starks 111.9 ORtg, .480 eFG%
Sterling Gibbs 113.1 ORtg, .467 eFG%
Alex Barlow 109.7 ORtg, .468 eFG%
Billy Garrett 106.9 ORtg, .430 eFG%
Derrick Wilson 97.2 ORtg, .403 eFG%
Derrick Wilson is dead last in the two most important offensive statistics compared to every other point guard in the Big East.
Come to your own conclusions.
I knew he struggled but he wasnt even close to Billy Garrett...Almost a whole 10 points behind. Thats brutal especially since Garrett is a freshman,
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Regarding Derrick's offensive offensive skills, Jake's inability to penetrate and become the scorer we needed, Jamil's disappearing act, and Chris's Farewell Tour...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AMtbbzyo6D8#t=5
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Facts do not lie. Please see <www.valueaddedbasketball.com> , or, where is Bama when we need him?
The player with the highest value and ranked 117 in the country was Gardner. Mayo was 548, D. Burton was ranked 638, J. Wilson 644, J. Anderson 925, J. Thomas 1158, Otule 1478,and J. Johnson at 1730
D. Wilson was ranked 2111 with a value added of 0.60 - on offense 0.00, on defense 0.61 (negative number indicates outstanding defense).
With all do respect for all opinions offered ... Coach Williams did a disservice to this fine kid. It was as though Coach Williams was trying to prove himself, as coach, right, rather than doing what was right.
And, yes I love Coach Williams, but he got a pebble in his shoe on this one.
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Facts do not lie. Please see <www.valueaddedbasketball.com> , or, where is Bama when we need him?
The player with the highest value and ranked 117 in the country was Gardner. Mayo was 548, D. Burton was ranked 638, J. Wilson 644, J. Anderson 925, J. Thomas 1158, Otule 1478,and J. Johnson at 1730
D. Wilson was ranked 2111 with a value added of 0.60 - on offense 0.00, on defense 0.61 (negative number indicates outstanding defense).
With all do respect for all opinions offered ... Coach Williams did a disservice to this fine kid. It was as though Coach Williams was trying to prove himself, as coach, right, rather than doing what was right.
And, yes I love Coach Williams, but he got a pebble in his shoe on this one.
Pebble in the shoe? How about a ball peen hammer to the big toe., would be more appropriate, based on performance.
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Facts do not lie. Please see <www.valueaddedbasketball.com> , or, where is Bama when we need him?
The player with the highest value and ranked 117 in the country was Gardner. Mayo was 548, D. Burton was ranked 638, J. Wilson 644, J. Anderson 925, J. Thomas 1158, Otule 1478,and J. Johnson at 1730
D. Wilson was ranked 2111 with a value added of 0.60 - on offense 0.00, on defense 0.61 (negative number indicates outstanding defense).
With all do respect for all opinions offered ... Coach Williams did a disservice to this fine kid. It was as though Coach Williams was trying to prove himself, as coach, right, rather than doing what was right.
And, yes I love Coach Williams, but he got a pebble in his shoe on this one.
Agreed. That is what I also said, but the slurpers of course blasted away.
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I knew he struggled but he wasnt even close to Billy Garrett...Almost a whole 10 points behind. Thats brutal especially since Garrett is a freshman,
Watch the teams ion even the NIT and none of them has a point guard as remotely ineffective as Derrick. But this season was a team effort. Jake was a one-trick pony, Juan and Chris were absolute non-threats and Jamil decided he didn't want to play basketball. We have to start from scratch next season. Mayo, Duane, Hill, Burton and Taylor early, with Fischer taking STJr's play by January.
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The problem wasn't Derrick. It was Derrick and Jake together all the time.
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The problem wasn't Derrick. It was Derrick and Jake together all the time.
Neither one of them could breakdown a defense, again, blame the coach. Jake was a great walk-on, everybody has to remember that.
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The problem wasn't JUST Derrick. It was Derrick and Jake together all the time.
Perhaps the best way to say it with the added qualifier. Derrick was a huge part of the team's problems. They were only made worse by being played so much together with Jake. Those two played the most minutes of any two players on the team....on one of them basically can't make a 2 point FG, and the other a 3 point FG, or 2 pt FG outside of 2 feet from the basket. How Buzz ever thought he'd win with those two getting max minutes/and max minutes together is beyond me...particularly when started with Juan Anderson and Chris Otule..
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Perhaps the best way to say it with the added qualifier. Derrick was a huge part of the team's problems. They were only made worse by being played so much together with Jake. Those two played the most minutes of any two players on the team....on one of them basically can't make a 2 point FG, and the other a 3 point FG, or 2 pt FG outside of 2 feet from the basket. How Buzz ever thought he'd win with those two getting max minutes/and max minutes together is beyond me...particularly when started with Juan Anderson and Chris Otule..
Shows you how good a coach Buzz was with that talent, won 17 games, amazing.
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I was a big Jake hater in the beginning of the year but I came around in the end. He did what he was asked of, he knew what he was. For Jake I put the blame solely on Buzz. In order for Jake to be effective he needed to be run off screens and Buzz didnt create many plays for him unless it was a baseline inbounds play.
Also, put me in the camp where Jamil absolutely killed our team this year by not showing up. Derrick was bad but Jamil, for what he could have been was brutal. Leads me to believe that Jamil wasnt as good as everybody thought him to be. That being said, Derrick still shouldnt have gotten the minutes he did.
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I was a big Jake hater in the beginning of the year but I came around in the end. He did what he was asked of, he knew what he was. For Jake I put the blame solely on Buzz. In order for Jake to be effective he needed to be run off screens and Buzz didnt create many plays for him unless it was a baseline inbounds play.
Also, put me in the camp where Jamil absolutely killed our team this year by not showing up. Derrick was bad but Jamil, for what he could have been was brutal. Leads me to believe that Jamil wasnt as good as everybody thought him to be. That being said, Derrick still shouldnt have gotten the minutes he did.
Jamel only showed glimpses, you saw him at Seton Hall take off and score 24 or so, after that he was a non-factor and he was as much to blame about the year as anybody. His talent was not there every game. Did not look for his shot enough as many times he did not take the shot when he had it, non-aggressive offensive player, limited more between his ears, did not have the scoring mentality of Devonte Burton has who was the black hole when he got the ball, exact opposites.
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But wait...it's okay because we didn't expect him to be very good....he played to his expectations (that some had of him), therefore it isn't his fault the team didn't make tourney...Jamil regressed from a 109.8 ORating as a junior to 102.5...I highly doubt his game got WORSE with an offseason of work. Gardner's ORating stayed pretty similar from junior year to senior year 123.2 as junior to 122.2 as a senior...yet notably his rating jumped from 118.1 as a sophomore...interesting there was no improvement as a senior - again, highly doubt his game, conditioning, etc., regressed with another off season of work and experience.
Would be interesting to see how Jake ranked against the other 2 guards in the league..
It's not okay. That is on Buzz for not recruiting better options at the point.
Again, if you go back to preseason predictions, I started a thread where I ranked the frontcourts and the backcourts of the BEast 1-10. I ranked Marquette either 9th or 10th in backcourt. So I am not surprised by Mattyv's comparison to the rest of the BEast.
We knew we had the worst or at least one of the worst backcourts in the BEast in the preseason, but we still expected to be a top 20 team.
What we didn't know was that Jamil would regress, Duane would get hurt, McKay would transfer, Taylor would suffer consistent setbacks, Johnson would be a dud, and Juan would get even worse.
So is Derrick being the best option at point one of the largest or even the largest problems with this team? Absolutely! Am I upset with him for that? Nope. I'm upset with Buzz for not recruiting a better option. I will always be more upset with players not living up to their expectations (Jamil, JJJ, Juan) than I will be with a player who plays up to and beyond his low expectations (Derrick and Jake).
Honestly, I think we agree on more than either of us realize. We just have philosophical differences on where to place our frustration.
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Lol, I usually like the paint touches articles...however this article was crap. Lots of minimizing and built in excuses. I really am sick of piling on Derrick, but he's terrible and to read this just made me laugh. I feel like this article was written by Buzz ::)
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As these discussions progress we seem to reach a "chicken or egg" moment. Did our problems originate in the backcourt, or did others not progress (or did they actually regress) as necessary. As with most things, I suspect it was a combination of both these factors and probably a few others. It cannot be seriously questioned that our back court was *deficient* offensively. Nor do I think it can it be argued that others failed to step up when needed (except Todd in the last few games). Whatever the primary cause the end result was the CF we witnessed all year: an out of sync offensively challenged team that when necessary could not get a key defensive stop. A lot to learn from and hopefully avoid in the future. We have four seniors moving on, and next year's team will be very different, and hopefully a lot less frustrating.
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...and Gardner is getting heat in another topic at this same time.
What does that say about Scoop's basketball IQ?
I don't know if he was getting heat. I think the worst was that was said was that he was inconsistent. Which I believe was wrong.
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Will you blame Buzz if he gives Derrick another shot next season? Not stoking the fire or anything, you're a more-than-solid poster, and I'm curious about your answer
I was more talking about giving him a shot out of high school. But unless someone else can earn the starting job, Derrick is who we are stuck with.
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As these discussions progress we seem to reach a "chicken or egg" moment. Did our problems originate in the backcourt, or did others not progress (or did they actually regress) as necessary. As with most things, I suspect it was a combination of both these factors and probably a few others. It cannot be seriously questioned that our back court was *deficient* offensively. Nor do I think it can it be argued that others failed to step up when needed (except Todd in the last few games). Whatever the primary cause the end result was the CF we witnessed all year: an out of sync offensively challenged team that when necessary could not get a key defensive stop. A lot to learn from and hopefully avoid in the future. We have four seniors moving on, and next year's team will be very different, and hopefully a lot less frustrating.
Very well put. Our failure to meet expectations this season was a team effort, which is why many of us get frustrated when Derrick is singled out as the main reason.
And for all the people who put out the complex stats, "value add" numbers and the like -- can you explain how those numbers account for intangibles like diving on the floor after loose balls, giving instructions to other players, etc. -- none of which show up in any stat I'm aware of, but which clearly help set the tone for the rest of the team?
I'm just glad they still play the game on hardwood, instead of on a microchip....
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Very well put. Our failure to meet expectations this season was a team effort, which is why many of us get frustrated when Derrick is singled out as the main reason.
And for all the people who put out the complex stats, "value add" numbers and the like -- can you explain how those numbers account for intangibles like diving on the floor after loose balls, giving instructions to other players, etc. -- none of which show up in any stat I'm aware of, but which clearly help set the tone for the rest of the team?
I'm just glad they still play the game on hardwood, instead of on a microchip....
Well said. +1 isn't enough...+2 to you!
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Very well put. Our failure to meet expectations this season was a team effort, which is why many of us get frustrated when Derrick is singled out as the main reason.
And for all the people who put out the complex stats, "value add" numbers and the like -- can you explain how those numbers account for intangibles like diving on the floor after loose balls, giving instructions to other players, etc. -- none of which show up in any stat I'm aware of, but which clearly help set the tone for the rest of the team?
I'm just glad they still play the game on hardwood, instead of on a microchip....
Don't forget the intangible of the defense sagging off when Derrick is in. That doesn't show up in any stat either and clearly hampers our team.
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Don't forget the intangible of the defense sagging off when Derrick is in. That doesn't show up in any stat either and clearly hampers our team.
Agree. But you also agree that it cuts both ways, correct?
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Agree. But you also agree that it cuts both ways, correct?
I agree that it does.
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Agree. But you also agree that it cuts both ways, correct?
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/ad8eaddd0759bafcd3cb7454697e93a1/tumblr_mu8ydaGUMZ1sb1gxno1_500.gif)
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Very well put. Our failure to meet expectations this season was a team effort, which is why many of us get frustrated when Derrick is singled out as the main reason.
And for all the people who put out the complex stats, "value add" numbers and the like -- can you explain how those numbers account for intangibles like diving on the floor after loose balls, giving instructions to other players, etc. -- none of which show up in any stat I'm aware of, but which clearly help set the tone for the rest of the team?
I'm just glad they still play the game on hardwood, instead of on a microchip....
Clearly, the tone wasn't a good one.
We're enjoying NO post-season for the first time in a long time.
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Agree. But you also agree that it cuts both ways, correct?
Diving for loose balls and "giving instructions" to other players isn't a task or action solely performed by a point guard.
Shooting 7% from 3 and being unwilling to shoot from outside of 2 feet from the basket and the resultant collapsing and sagging of the defense on everyone is...is an action solely performed by Derrick's defender. Jake's doesn't do it. Davante, Todd, Jamil, Dawson's defenders surely don't do it...
This team didn't go from Elite 8 to missing NIT due to Vander Blue and Trent Lockett not being on the team...end of story.
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Diving for loose balls and "giving instructions" to other players isn't a task or action solely performed by a point guard.
Shooting 7% from 3 and being unwilling to shoot from outside of 2 feet from the basket and the resultant collapsing and sagging of the defense on everyone is...is an action solely performed by Derrick's defender. Jake's doesn't do it. Davante, Todd, Jamil, Dawson's defenders surely don't do it...
This team didn't go from Elite 8 to missing NIT due to Vander Blue and Trent Lockett not being on the team...end of story.
Aaaaaaand we come full circle to your signature.
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Diving for loose balls and "giving instructions" to other players isn't a task or action solely performed by a point guard.
You're absolutely right - these aren't tasks that have to be solely performed by a PG...yet our PG was nonetheless doing them far more than the others in the rotation. The only guy who might have been in the ballpark - but still probably a distant second - was Jake.
If you disagree, please feel free to share your opinion about guys who got more floor burns than Derrick.
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You're absolutely right - these aren't tasks that have to be solely performed by a PG...yet our PG was nonetheless doing them far more than the others in the rotation. The only guy who might have been in the ballpark - but still probably a distant second - was Jake.
If you disagree, please feel free to share your opinion about guys who got more floor burns than Derrick.
Goooo.....understand this: I do not hate Derrick in any way, shape or form. Admire his character, hustle, and attitude. My issue is with Buzz for not making the clear and evident change that needed to be made. The virtues of Derrick you mention are what you need/want in every player - yet the player has to be able to put the ball in the basket as a PG playing high major ball.
Guards, by virtue of their quickness, long rebound caroms, etc., lead to them being involved in more loose ball scrums than bigs. Yet, I saw EVERY player on MU hit the ground after a loose ball this season...Mayo went to the floor a lot...Jake...Jamil...Otule..Dawson..Juan and Davante, Burton etc...of course the guys playing the most minutes on the team...Derrick and Jake had the most time on court to participate in such scrums..
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You're absolutely right - these aren't tasks that have to be solely performed by a PG...yet our PG was nonetheless doing them far more than the others in the rotation. The only guy who might have been in the ballpark - but still probably a distant second - was Jake.
If you disagree, please feel free to share your opinion about guys who got more floor burns than Derrick.
So more floorburns = more victories?
How about this novel idea: average 7 points more per game with the same defense, and we would have won 6 more games.