Please take your pick and opinion:
1) MU shoots 58% and loses
Outrebounds X and loses
X shoots 5 for 15 from three and wins
2) Starting backcourt had 5 total points
Jake took 2 shots the whole game and played almost all of it.
3) Jamil was just terrible again. Biggest disappointment of year by far.
4) MU shoots 8 for 14 from free throws, with a frontend Gardner miss ( and Jamil of course)
X shoots 16 for 20
5) Minimum Burton for last 10 minutes of game. Just a confusing thought process here, would love to be a media person to ask that question.
Tough loss, but nothing unusual for the year.
5) trickles coming in of burton being injured. so, that's why.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 13, 2014, 10:56:24 PM
5) trickles coming in of burton being injured. so, that's why.
Ok, that takes care of that, if true. Didn't see him get hurt.
I think the no call on Reynolds in the first half was a huge blow. Should have been a flagrant 2 IMHO
Quote from: nyg on March 13, 2014, 10:58:24 PM
Ok, that takes care of that, if true. Didn't see him get hurt.
He wasn't hurt...at least not with 17 seconds left was on floor and sprinting up the floor...though I know Kenosha posted that..
Disagree on the flagrant 2, but how is the Stainbrook elbow on Gardner not a flagrant 1 and the ball?
Thought the refs missed that one badly.
Quote from: nyg on March 13, 2014, 10:55:27 PM
Please take your pick and opinion:
1) MU shoots 58% and loses
Outrebounds X and loses
X shoots 5 for 15 from three and wins
2) Starting backcourt had 5 total points
Jake took 2 shots the whole game and played almost all of it.
3) Jamil was just terrible again. Biggest disappointment of year by far.
4) MU shoots 8 for 14 from free throws, with a frontend Gardner miss ( and Jamil of course)
X shoots 16 for 20
5) Minimum Burton for last 10 minutes of game. Just a confusing thought process here, would love to be a media person to ask that question.
Tough loss, but nothing unusual for the year.
Great post NYG...hard to figure...and Xavier hit about 12-14 FTs down the stretch so gotta tip cap to them for that. Jamil was awful all game...I'd put more blame at the feet of Jamil than any other reason...had awful travel...looked like he was sleepwalking most all of the game and just can't have that...
Quote from: Ners on March 13, 2014, 10:59:57 PM
He wasn't hurt...at least not with 17 seconds left was on floor and sprinting up the floor...though I know Kenosha posted that..
more than one have posted that, i believe.
In the beating-a-dead-horse answer, we lost because our starting backcourt does less to win games than any Top 100 team backcourt in the country.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on March 13, 2014, 11:00:47 PM
Disagree on the flagrant 2, but how is the Stainbrook elbow on Gardner not a flagrant 1 and the ball?
Thought the refs missed that one badly.
There was a pretty good acting done by Ox in that one. Wasn't as upset.
Reynolds shoving Davante's head to the floor long after the whistle had blown....terrible missed call
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 13, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
more than one have posted that, i believe.
Well he was also on the floor at the 2 second mark jumping up and down trying to defend inbound...and with never seeing him so much as grimace at any point in game...sure must have been ultra minor injury..
Quote from: ecompt on March 13, 2014, 11:02:23 PM
In the beating-a-dead-horse answer, we lost because our starting backcourt does less to win games than any Top 100 team backcourt in the country.
More like 57% FT & 20 TO's
Bad at basketball
We lost because of free throws and Jamil Wilson. He made a stupid turnover on the first possession of the game and missed two key free throws, when he shot them for Derrick. He did not do a whole lot in between those plays. I would also put this one on Buzz, because the team was on a roll at the start of the game and he sends in four subs at once.
Where did the seniors go? I like Otule but he and Jwill are awful. The offense is Derrick bring it up in the middle of the floor
and pass back and forth to JT and him. We could of won this game with any contributions from them. Worst backcourt in
the big east
Because Burton was one point shy of equally the point total of the other 4 starters
Pg play wasn't the only problem this year. The offense was fine when the starters were in (burton). I just think jake shuts it down and doesn't even look for a shot once they start guarding him. He just tries not to turn it over and focus on the other parts of the game. That really hurts the O then. Jamil wasn't disappointing at all tonight. He looked like the guy I saw all year. Nothing more than a role player.
Quote from: bilsu on March 13, 2014, 11:06:42 PM
We lost because of free throws and Jamil Wilson. He made a stupid turnover on the first possession of the game and missed two key free throws, when he shot them for Derrick. He did not do a whole lot in between those plays. I would also put this one on Buzz, because the team was on a roll at the start of the game and he sends in four subs at once.
All of the above.
With 1:14 left and X up 61-58, Jamil missed the two. Then Juan fouled immediately leading to two made free throws. 63-58. Jamil makes them, then MU pumped and maybe Juan doesn't foul. I mentioned that subbing earlier in the game thread and was confusing to say the least. Not many DIV I coaches do that. There were lots of confusing things tonight.
Quote from: ecompt on March 13, 2014, 11:02:23 PM
In the beating-a-dead-horse answer, we lost because our starting backcourt does less to win games than any Top 100 team backcourt in the country.
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Xavier scored more points than us.
Jamil played 31 minutes....Deonte 24...
Starting backcourt combined for 5 points, 5 assists, 3 turnovers and 3 rebounds...in 65 minutes of action..hard to win that way.
Quote from: Ners on March 13, 2014, 11:21:00 PM
Jamil played 31 minutes....Deonte 24...
Starting backcourt combined for 5 points, 5 assists, 3 turnovers and 3 rebounds...in 65 minutes of action..hard to win that way.
Ners, well played. Amen.
Buzz
The only Sr. who showed up was Ox, sad but true
Quote from: Ners on March 13, 2014, 11:21:00 PM
Starting backcourt combined for 5 points, 5 assists, 3 turnovers and 3 rebounds...in 65 minutes of action..hard to win that way.
Don't blame Derrick for Jake's terrible performance. Derrick had all 5 of those assists and only 1 TO. Jake - 0 assists and 2 TOs. But of course it's easier to criticize Derrick if you lump his stats with Jake's.
And did you notice that we had a 7-point lead when Derrick went out with his second foul in the first half...and then trailed by 2 at halftime? Probably not. People are so used to bashing our starting PG that they don't even notice when we start out ahead and then hit a roadblock when he sits.
I suppose it was Derrick's fault when Jamil missed those two FTs that were created by Derrick's aggressive drive.
The best three players tonight were Todd, Deonte...and Derrick.
Ugh! A long way to come and see this debacle. We subbed our way to defeat. We pull out burton after a quick 7 points. Other coach has no answer so we help him out. We just got out coached even with a handicapped back court. Very sad but indicative of the entire year lets hope for a clean slate and different result next year. We Have faired horrible in NYC. Been here 8 of last 9 and it maybe my last. Heartbreaking season.
Can't win when you have 2-3 offensive players on the court instead of five. Their guards penetrated and made shots , ours did neither
Wow so according to the hunt article burton wasn't injured in second. Buzz just thought we were better without him. Great job buzz.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2014, 11:43:54 PM
Don't blame Derrick for Jake's terrible performance. Derrick had all 5 of those assists and only 1 TO. Jake - 0 assists and 2 TOs. But of course it's easier to criticize Derrick if you lump his stats with Jake's.
And did you notice that we had a 7-point lead when Derrick went out with his second foul in the first half...and then trailed by 2 at halftime? Probably not. People are so used to bashing our starting PG that they don't even notice when we start out ahead and then hit a roadblock when he sits.
I suppose it was Derrick's fault when Jamil missed those two FTs that were created by Derrick's aggressive drive.
The best three players tonight were Todd, Deonte...and Derrick.
Give me a break...I lumped them together so as to NOT call out Derrick alone...and I did notice our lead shrunk when BURTON went to the bench along with Derrick in 1st half...I tend to think Burton being benched had more to do with than Derrick...but..since you asked for it...here is your stat line for our 3rd best player tonight:
31 minutes, 2 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 turnover...
Meanwhile Dee Davis goes 38 minutes for 7 points, 3 assists, 5 steals and no turnovers....and we won't talk about Christian....
Quote from: Ners on March 14, 2014, 12:03:30 AM
Give me a break...I lumped them together so as to NOT call out Derrick alone...and I did notice our lead shrunk when BURTON went to the bench along with Derrick in 1st half...I tend to think Burton being benched had more to do with than Derrick...but..since you asked for it...here is your stat line for our 3rd best player tonight:
31 minutes, 2 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 turnover...
Meanwhile Dee Davis goes 38 minutes for 7 points, 3 assists, 5 steals and no turnovers....and we won't talk about Christian....
Stat line for Dawson: 7 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, 1 rebound, 1 turnover.
And why don't you want to talk about Christon? Because he scored 6 points in the 7 minutes Dawson was guarding him, and 12 in the 31 that Derrick was guarding him. How's your math in calculating the points per minute?
Yeah, that's an upgrade....
You need more from Jamil. He was a spectator on offense. When he is aggressive he puts so much pressure on a D, especially with Todd/Jake and Davante/Deonte on the floor. With a sleepy Jamil plus Derrick you have too many dead ends on offense. How many times did dribble drive or kick out come to a Wilson and the ball was walked to the top of the key or the play hit the Wilson dead end? If you're going to substitute offense for defense with Gardner/Otule how about trying it with Wilson and Dawson? Disappointing but happy to see burton produce. He will be our leading scorer next year unless Todd play both halves.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 14, 2014, 12:08:01 AM
Stat line for Dawson: 7 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, 1 rebound, 1 turnover.
Yeah, that's an upgrade....
Actually that's a fairly usual 7 minute stat line for your guy..only difference is he gets 32 minutes per game to put up numbers, game in, game out...gets more consistent PT than any other player on the team...but...it's pointless to debate as it is only going to get into more highlighting of the totally ineffective play of Derrick and he's been piled on enough...thanks in large part to people trying to say he played great or was 3rd best player on team tonight....
Quote from: ecompt on March 13, 2014, 11:02:23 PM
In the beating-a-dead-horse answer, we lost because our starting backcourt does less to win games than any Top 100 team backcourt in the country.
That is the correct answer. We can point to free throws, bad jamil etc. fact is, the starting back court is as bad as it gets for a high major. Brutal to watch.
Why did we lose? It's a guards game
Our starting backcourt
65 min 2-5 fg/ 4 reb/ 5 ast/ 2 stl/ 3 to/ 5 pts
Xavier starting backcourt
74 min 9-18 fg/ 2 reb/ 8 ast/ 5 stl/ 5 to/ 25 pts
Here are Todd's stats, who again played fewer minutes than either starter
28 min 8-13 fg/ 2 reb/ 3 ast/ 0 stl/ 3 to/ 21 pts
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 14, 2014, 12:08:01 AM
Stat line for Dawson: 7 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, 1 rebound, 1 turnover.
And why don't you want to talk about Christon? Because he scored 6 points in the 7 minutes Dawson was guarding him, and 12 in the 31 that Derrick was guarding him. How's your math in calculating the points per minute?
Yeah, that's an upgrade....
I WANT A BETTER PG THAN DERRICK AND DAWSON!!!
There? Did I shout loud enough?
Aside from Dawson's GTown performance and a couple decent games by Derrick, I saw only the worst PG play in the Big East and what had to be close to the worst in the nation.
Derrick, we all know is mid-major material, at best. Dawson, well, there is a reason he didn't sniff top-100. Does Dawson have a better upside? Sure ... talk about damning with faint praise.
We can do better. We MUST do better. Or 2014-15 will be a repeat.
But to answer the question in the OP: We lost because the APB never did locate Jamil (but Xavier's coach sure located Jamil after Derrick couldn't shoot FTs), because our starting SHOOTING guard managed to take 2 shots in 36 minutes, because even our best FT shooter bricked FTs (as did many of his teammates), because Mayo treated the ball as if it were covered in Crisco for a long stretch of the game, because Buzz had a couple of dopey substitutions, because ... well ... because we deserved to lose. Again.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 14, 2014, 12:19:27 AM
Why did we lose? It's a guards game
Our starting backcourt
65 min 2-5 fg/ 4 reb/ 5 ast/ 2 stl/ 3 to/ 5 pts
Xavier starting backcourt
74 min 9-18 fg/ 2 reb/ 8 ast/ 5 stl/ 5 to/ 25 pts
Here are Todd's stats, who again played fewer minutes than either starter
28 min 8-13 fg/ 2 reb/ 3 ast/ 0 stl/ 3 to/ 21 pts
Todd was really bad in first half, so he got good minutes when you consider his first half play.
Quote from: Ners on March 14, 2014, 12:11:45 AM
Actually that's a fairly usual 7 minute stat line for your guy..only difference is he gets 32 minutes per game to put up numbers, game in, game out...gets more consistent PT than any other player on the team...but...it's pointless to debate as it is only going to get into more highlighting of the totally ineffective play of Derrick and he's been piled on enough...thanks in large part to people trying to say he played great or was 3rd best player on team tonight....
No, a fairly usual stat line for Derrick would be about 5 assists (not 0), 5 rebounds (not 0), usually a steal or two (not 0). You're right - it's pointless to debate with someone who constantly gets the facts wrong.
Quote from: newsdrms on March 14, 2014, 12:22:42 AM
Todd was really bad in first half, so he got good minutes when you consider his first half play.
You are missing the point, Todd played like crap in the first half, absolute garbage, yet he still put up a better overall stat line for the game than our starting backcourt. You wouldn't trade 15 more points a game if you had to give up 3 turnovers? I sure as hell would.
Point being, Todd playing like crap is still better than the consistent output we get from our starting backcourt.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 14, 2014, 12:25:22 AM
No, a fairly usual stat line for Derrick would be about 5 assists (not 0), 5 rebounds (not 0), usually a steal or two (not 0). You're right - it's pointless to debate with someone who constantly gets the facts wrong.
And that's a defense of DW?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 14, 2014, 12:08:01 AM
Stat line for Dawson: 7 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, 1 rebound, 1 turnover.
And why don't you want to talk about Christon? Because he scored 6 points in the 7 minutes Dawson was guarding him, and 12 in the 31 that Derrick was guarding him. How's your math in calculating the points per minute?
Yeah, that's an upgrade....
Had your eyes checked lately?...Dawson wasn't guarding Christon...Look...do whatever you have to do to try to prop up your guy...he's gotten more opportunity than any other player on this team to show he could play...and at the end of the day...he can't. I simply believe Dawson as a freshman, couldn't be worse...if you normalized his play and gave him 30 minutes night in and night out.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 14, 2014, 12:25:22 AM
No, a fairly usual stat line for Derrick would be about 5 assists (not 0), 5 rebounds (not 0), usually a steal or two (not 0). You're right - it's pointless to debate with someone who constantly gets the facts wrong.
Are you really this dense? Yes, Derrick might average 4.1 assists for the year in 31 minutes of play...you brought up Dawson playing 7 minutes tonight....and I can find a lot of 7 minute stretches where Derrick has put up 0,0, and 1.
Can you find me one game Dawson played 30+ minutes and reference those stats please? Thanks. It's pointless to debate with someone who brings up a 7 minute stat line in criticism and then tries to argue against it with 31 minute stat line. WOW!
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 14, 2014, 12:28:12 AM
You are missing the point, Todd played like crap in the first half, absolute garbage, yet he still put up a better overall stat line for the game than our starting backcourt. You wouldn't trade 15 more points a game if you had to give up 3 turnovers? I sure as hell would.
Point being, Todd playing like crap is still better than the consistent output we get from our starting backcourt.
What I'm saying is he played really bad 1st half including dumb TO's, but when he played to his potential he was kept in the game. So he ends up with 25 minutes because Buzz did not give up on him and played him for most of the 2nd half.
Quote from: brandx on March 13, 2014, 11:11:55 PM
Because Burton was one point shy of equally the point total of the other 4 starters
The other four starters had 12 points to Burton's 23.
At least we won't have to watch them get destroyed by Creighton again.
4 starters combined for 12 points in 108 minutes of playing time. Not sure it could be any worse unless the one fg by Thomas that bounced up off the front of the rim and fell forward thru the net didn't go in.
2-4 relate to the limitations of players and is beyond being addressed on game day by a coach. 5 is coaching and controlled by the coach. Also Todd is in a flow and we call a time out. Can anyone explain how critical a flow is in any sport? How the brain takes over and and the body responds. That is why Todd plays his best at the end of the game. He zones out and concentrates completely without thinking or fear. Also Deonte should have had more minutes than Jake, Derrick or Jamil IMHO.
Kinda glad Jamil is gone. Hate to say it but the kid never was a winner.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 14, 2014, 03:49:18 AM
Kinda glad Jamil is gone. Hate to say it but the kid never was a winner.
Maybe a little harsh. Just never lived up to his potential. Had some big shots too though, namely those two gigantic 3's against Davidson.
Quote from: brandx on March 14, 2014, 12:29:19 AM
And that's a defense of DW?
Stats are useful to an extent. Sure, DW has a ton of value as a defender, no doubt about it, but if you cant' see that he brings no aggressiveness and allows the defense to play differently in the guard oriented game of college basketball then I really have no idea how you view the game. People are right that we really shouldn't attack the kid, because he's trying to do something more than what was asked of him when he was brought here and he's a kid, but that also doesn't mean falsely pumping him up.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 14, 2014, 03:49:18 AM
Kinda glad Jamil is gone. Hate to say it but the kid never was a winner.
Finally some truth. Cause Stone Cold said so!! Thank You.
The guy is not a winner. He just has a deceiving body.
Many reasons. Those defending Derrick Wilson should probably not be defending him.
Those defending Dawson should probably not be.
Honestly, we are better when they are both on the bench.
Jamil was a huge disappointment all year long. I'll miss Gardner... that's about all for our seniors. Jake and Chris are great guys, but they are role players at best.
Looking forward to next season... hoping that Duane Wilson can be the starting PG.
Duane Wilson
Deonte Burton
Todd Mayo
Steve Taylor
Luke Fisher
is what I'm hoping for
Derrick Wilson
Deonte Burton
Juan Anderson
Todd Mayo
Steve Taylor
is what we will probably see.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2014, 11:43:54 PM
The best three players tonight were Todd, Deonte...and Gardner.
fify
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 14, 2014, 03:49:18 AM
Kinda glad Jamil is gone. Hate to say it but the kid never was a winner.
That is just obnoxious. He was a winner last year. Davidson game and Butler game. Maybe you could say he was not "the man" this year...but to say he never was a winner is just plain wrong.
Jamil is more of a complementary player. He is a glider. He does not have the ability to get around his defender. He can post and make some nice turnarounds and jump hooks. This is not a slam on our guards, but we don't have a Semaj Christian or Bryce Cotton or Chapman or Rysheed Jordan or Billy Garrett, Jr., so he is not getting unobstructed cuts to the basket or tip jams when the point guard gets free. He is being defended for 40 minutes a game...
But he defends well, rebounds well, makes clutch shots and usually makes clutch free throws. He did not last night. His little shot in the lane to get back to 1 down late in the game was a nice shot.
The only things that really bothered me about his play this year is were his early commitment to jumping on defense and a mindless turnover here and there. Committing to the jump too soon took him out of the game a few times this year.
We were lost defensively without him out there this year. He does a wonderful job of help and recover and rebounds well and generally covers much more than his guy. We are going to miss that a lot next year...unless our new bigs are able to impersonate Jim Mclvaine or Chris Obekpa when someone gets beat. The only other player on the team capable of anything near what Jamil provides on the defensive end is Juan Anderson. I am hoping he gets his offensive mojo back because he can certainly help if he does.
I am going to miss Jamil Wilson tremendously. We did not have all the offensive weapons we needed this year and Jamil's game suffered because of it.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2014, 11:43:54 PM
Don't blame Derrick for Jake's terrible performance. Derrick had all 5 of those assists and only 1 TO. Jake - 0 assists and 2 TOs. But of course it's easier to criticize Derrick if you lump his stats with Jake's.
And did you notice that we had a 7-point lead when Derrick went out with his second foul in the first half...and then trailed by 2 at halftime? Probably not. People are so used to bashing our starting PG that they don't even notice when we start out ahead and then hit a roadblock when he sits.
I suppose it was Derrick's fault when Jamil missed those two FTs that were created by Derrick's aggressive drive.
The best three players tonight were Todd, Deonte...and Derrick.
I'd be content with a starting PG who scores 2 PTs all game, controls tempo, distributes, and plays D as long as we win.
But that hasn't happened consistently this season.
And if I'm content with that, then I expect more from the other starters: Jake, Jamil, and Chris.
And that hasn't happened often this year.
Quote from: chapman on March 14, 2014, 08:00:33 AM
fify
Yup, and Gardner hardly ever got the ball in the low post because they were tripling down low.
Don't get me wrong, Jamil had some game that will be somewhat missed depending on Burton's development, but he never had a killer/competitor's instinct to take his superior athleticism and dominate...saw too much of the smiling/awe shucks crap from him in crunch time.