Lacking the optimism of DCWarrior. I started ruminating in my post-game funk about whether things are looking any better for next year. Unsurprisingly, I'm pessimistic.
Who do you see as our starters?
I am assuming Derrick, Todd, and Bane have to start. Is our starting center the kid from Chicago who didn't see a minute of action today? I see Juan getting the honor of starting, but he was absent today as well.
Hoping Fischer will help come half way through. Looks like pinning big-time hopes on Duane and Ahmed. Get the feeling that next year will be more like this year than the last several.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on March 08, 2014, 02:33:56 PM
Lacking the optimism of DCWarrior. I started ruminating in my post-game funk about whether things are looking any better for next year. Unsurprisingly, I'm pessimistic.
Who do you see as our starters?
I am assuming Derrick, Todd, and Bane have to start. Is our starting center the kid from Chicago who didn't see a minute of action today? I see Juan getting the honor of starting, but he was absent today as well.
Hoping Fischer will help come half way through. Looks like pinning big-time hopes on Duane and Ahmed. Get the feeling that next year will be more like this year than the last several.
especially if Buzz continues his slurping of Derrick.
Duane or next year is going to be worse than this year.
Duane, Todd, Bane, Juan(sady), Steve
JJJ, Ahmed off the bench forsure. Fishcher when eligible.
Derrick just get really good at being a good teammate.
If Derrick plays as much as this year we are losing a good player to a transfer and that is a fact.
Duane, burton, mayo have to start and log big minutes otherwise we're in trouble
I'm cautiously optimistic for next year.
SG: Mayo I think will be great.
SG2: I'm hopeful that either JJJ or Hill will be very solid
PF: Burton I think will be a star.
C: To start the season I think a fully healed Taylor will be a nice throwback to our smaller lineups. I think he moves to PF and Burton to SF when Fischer is ready.
Big question mark is PG. No matter what it won't be worse than this season. The question is can Derrick improve his shot/FTs or will Hill/Duane/Dawson be able to step up.
If the PG can be improved I see us being much better next year than this year.
Quote from: forgetful on March 08, 2014, 02:45:18 PM
I'm cautiously optimistic for next year.
SG: Mayo I think will be great.
SG2: I'm hopeful that either JJJ or Hill will be very solid
PF: Burton I think will be a star.
C: To start the season I think a fully healed Taylor will be a nice throwback to our smaller lineups. I think he moves to PF and Burton to SF when Fischer is ready.
Big question mark is PG. No matter what it won't be worse than this season. The question is can Derrick improve his shot/FTs or will Hill/Duane/Dawson be able to step up.
If the PG can be improved I see us being much better next year than this year.
No he can't. 3 years proves it. He isn't going to all of a sudden learn to shoot.
Can those guys be able to step up? If given the chance duh. But for some reason Derrick isn't forced to step up.
Again, he needs to be back to freshman pine riding or we are screwed and that is a fact.
I don't see MU getting back to the NCAA's next year. Losing Gardner will be huge, as Derrick will start again next year so we will be limited offensively from our guards again and lack the same scoring from the front court.
Quote from: Norm on March 08, 2014, 02:55:35 PM
I don't see MU getting back to the NCAA's next year. Losing Gardner will be huge, as Derrick will start again next year so we will be limited offensively from our guards again and lack the same scoring from the front court.
I'm with you. Next year will be worse than this year, especially first half without Fischer.
Dwil, Mayo, Burton, Juan and Taylor starting is not a real strong lineup. Dwil, Juan and Taylor are not going to be off season resurrections to greatness. If Stone comes in 2015, then watch out cause the youngsters will have experience.
I still don't see Juan playing a ton even as a Senior next year. Fischer will start at center once he is back and Steve might move to PF. I can see Satchel Pierce playing before Fischer returns, if he's ready. We really need Duane to convince Buzz (by playing well) to start him at PG and Derrick would have a backup role. If there is a year to play all our young guys, it's 2014-15.
The only players on the team next year with proven scoring ability will be Mayo followed by Burton and the only certainty is Derrick will start and probably lead the team in minutes played. After the way Buzz treated the freshmen this season, I can't rely on anything from Hill or Cohen. The best thing we'll have going next season is low expectations because of all the unknowns and maybe, just maybe, that'll put a chip on their collective shoulders.
Quote from: forgetful on March 08, 2014, 02:45:18 PM
I'm cautiously optimistic for next year.
SG: Mayo I think will be great.
SG2: I'm hopeful that either JJJ or Hill will be very solid
PF: Burton I think will be a star.
C: To start the season I think a fully healed Taylor will be a nice throwback to our smaller lineups. I think he moves to PF and Burton to SF when Fischer is ready.
Big question mark is PG. No matter what it won't be worse than this season. The question is can Derrick improve his shot/FTs or will Hill/Duane/Dawson be able to step up.
If the PG can be improved I see us being much better next year than this year.
But it can be just as bad. Derrick led this team in minutes played. If that happens again, we are an NIT team again.
And no, his shot will not improve. If you can shoot by now, it will never happen.
Mayo and Burton start. Probably Juan and STjr, too, until Fischer returns. I don't think Pierce gets more than token time. The big question is at PG. Somebody is going to have to take the job from Derrick. That hasn't happened this year. I thought Duane would be starting at PG this season by conference season. I will stick with that and say Duane starts at PG next year.
I can't live the next 8 months being pessimistic so here's the road map of how things are better next year.
Duane Wilson outplays Derrick and wins the starting job. The problem with PG this year was Dawson simply was not good enough to beat out Derrick. Next year Duane is and Dawson backs him up.
Todd, Hill and JJJ shoot the 3 well enough that there are always 2 guards on the court to stretch the defense; AND those 2 guards can also drive the ball getting back to what looks like the Marquette offense before 2013-14.
Burton becomes savvy enough to play the 4 and is the beast we all know he can be. STJ healthy for a year plays like he did as a freshman. Luke comes in at the 2 half and together they make a serviceable center. This is a guard oriented team like Nova is now and like the pre-2013 MU teams were. We run up tempo and play for steals.
The Schedule isn't as difficult in the first half. We get a few non con wins and make the tourney.
When Fischer becomes eligible, it becomes possible to start him alongside Burton up front with Todd, whoever beats out Derrick at the point, and whichever of the freshmen wings emerges. Juan, STjr, and Derrick off of the bench for stability and defense.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 08, 2014, 03:18:29 PM
I can't live the next 8 months being pessimistic so here's the road map of how things are better next year.
Duane Wilson outplays Derrick and wins the starting job. The problem with PG this year was Dawson simply was not good enough to beat out Derrick. Next year Duane is and Dawson backs him up.
Todd, Hill and JJJ shoot the 3 well enough that there are always 2 guards on the court to stretch the defense; AND those 2 guards can also drive the ball getting back to what looks like the Marquette offense before 2013-14.
Burton becomes savvy enough to play the 4 and is the beast we all know he can be. STJ healthy for a year plays like he did as a freshman. Luke comes in at the 2 half and together they make a serviceable center. This is a guard oriented team like Nova is now and like the pre-2013 MU teams were. We run up tempo and play for steals.
The Schedule isn't as difficult in the first half. We get a few non con wins and make the tourney.
Duane could be the second coming of Butch Lee and he will not start under Buzz. Buzz Williams will never, ever start a new guy over Derrick. It will not happen.
For once I'd love to go into a season without any unexpected departures/transfers. I'd especially like to go into a season without any departures immediately before the start of the season (McKay) or shortly after the start of the season (Reggie smith, maymon). If we avoid this I actually feel pretty good about next year.
Certainly our level of talent on the perimeter is increasing tremendously with Duane Wilson and Hill. this will put Derek Wilson as our seventh option where he should be. Hopefully Buzz and the assistants get hungry and can improve because their decision-making was terrible this year. I have to believe Buzz learns from this year and learns that Derek is nothing more than a backup point guard. I look forward to finally seeing Mayo and Burton get as many minutes as they deserve. Hopefully JJJcan earn the coach's confidence and play more. Hopefully Steve Taylor can get healthy and produce.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 08, 2014, 03:18:29 PM
I can't live the next 8 months being pessimistic so here's the road map of how things are better next year.
Duane Wilson outplays Derrick and wins the starting job. Next year Duane is and Dawson backs him up.
Todd, Hill and JJJ shoot the 3 well enough that there are always 2 guards on the court to stretch the defense; AND those 2 guards can also drive the ball getting back to what looks like the Marquette offense before 2013-14.The problem with PG this year was Dawson simply was not good enough to beat out Derrick.
Burton becomes savvy enough to play the 4 and is the beast we all know he can be. STJ healthy for a year plays like he did as a freshman. Luke comes in at the 2 half and together they make a serviceable center. This is a guard oriented team like Nova is now and like the pre-2013 MU teams were. We run up tempo and play for steals.
The Schedule isn't as difficult in the first half. We get a few non con wins and make the tourney.
Yeah, and Burton was not good enough to beat out Juan. We all know that our best players don't start.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 08, 2014, 03:31:31 PM
Duane could be the second coming of Butch Lee and he will not start under Buzz. Buzz Williams will never, ever start a new guy over Derrick. It will not happen.
Think you're wrong. I wouldn't have started Dawson over Derrick either and that was really his only choice. Remember the Jamil experiment at PG, that was even worse.
It would sure be nice if we could get some info out of The AL about Duane's progress.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 08, 2014, 03:31:31 PM
Duane could be the second coming of Butch Lee and he will not start under Buzz. Buzz Williams will never, ever start a new guy over Derrick. It will not happen.
Buzz would start Derrick over Magic Johnson.
Duane Wilson, Todd and Ahmed Hill in our three guard offense. Burton and Steve Taylor Jr up front to start, Luke joins the rotation 2nd semester. If Ahmed can play the point, that's another option. Derrick will get at least 15 minutes. How things shake out with JD, JA, JJJ and the other freshmen we will see. I hope JJJ is back, but I have a bad feeling. We'll be small and young next year.
If Buzz doesn't play the most talented guys next year we are screwed again.
Derrick gets the minutes at pg...duane will be used more at the 2.
Anyone who thinks Derrick Wilson isn't starting and playing major minutes next year is setting themselves up to be majorly disappointed...again.
Here is what I hope:
Most minutes:
PG Du. Wilson
SG Todd
SF Burton
PF Steve
C Fisher (obviously after he is eligible)
Back up minutes:
PG Dawson, De. Wilson
SG JJJ, Hill
SF Shayok, Cohen
PF Harris, Anderson
C Pierce
Here's hoping.
Personally, for next season to be successful, I'm putting a lot of stock in Duane Wilson to save the PG position. Before this year I thought he was the best recruit for us coming in. Unfortunately, he is behind the curve in terms of experience obviously. Also Buzz seems reluctant to pass the reigns over. We'll see.
Next year's team should play at a much higher tempo and capitalize on transition opportunities, ideally. Realistically, Derrick isn't going to improve in shooting BUT he could develop that sense of urgency to push the ball down the court like we have seen him struggle to do lately. That would help facilitate a higher octane offense.
I think we will have the usual challenge of most of our games being close down the stretch. Will we be able to overcome or come up short like several of the games this year?
We will probably be missing a strong defensive presence in the paint so we'll have to turn up the intensity a bit to make up for our deficiencies.
If Buzz doesn't play the most talented guys next year we are screwed again.
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on March 08, 2014, 03:03:08 PM
I still don't see Juan playing a ton even as a Senior next year. Fischer will start at center once he is back and Steve might move to PF. I can see Satchel Pierce playing before Fischer returns, if he's ready. We really need Duane to convince Buzz (by playing well) to start him at PG and Derrick would have a backup role. If there is a year to play all our young guys, it's 2014-15.
Buzz Williams will not make his game changer a back up next year--never. Duane will be a rookie, so Buzz may give him 5 minutes a game.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 08, 2014, 03:42:41 PM
Think you're wrong. I wouldn't have started Dawson over Derrick either and that was really his only choice. Remember the Jamil experiment at PG, that was even worse.
It would sure be nice if we could get some info out of The AL about Duane's progress.
What am I wrong about? Derrick will start next year and get his 30 minutes a game. Put your cash down on that if you can find somebody to bet against it? It is not in Williams' DNA to admit that mistake.
And I never said start Dawson over Derrick. How do you explain Derrick getting about 48 minutes and dawson about 2?
Quote from: Heavy Gear on March 08, 2014, 03:10:25 PM
The only players on the team next year with proven scoring ability will be Mayo followed by Burton and the only certainty is Derrick will start and probably lead the team in minutes played. After the way Buzz treated the freshmen this season, I can't rely on anything from Hill or Cohen. The best thing we'll have going next season is low expectations because of all the unknowns and maybe, just maybe, that'll put a chip on their collective shoulders.
What, another down season? With a stud coach, salary, his recruiting prowess, there should not be.
I am cautiously optimistic for next season. I think we will do a lot better than anyone thinks because we will once again be a guard focused offense. I think that is much more in Buzz's comfort zone.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 08, 2014, 06:40:03 PM
What, another down season? With a stud coach, salary, his recruiting prowess, there should not be.
Willie, why not just go cheer for UW. Isn't it just that much easier?
You are a such a cry baby. Christ.
I am optimistic about next year and don't think an NCAA bid is out of the question.
Even though Derrick was a junior, he spent his first two years as a backup and this was the first time he was given the keys to the team. He will start next year and play much better, while logging less minutes, more like 25-28/game, as Buzz will have more comfortable options in Duane and a more experienced Dawson to take minutes at the position.
The other thing is that with Gardner/Otule gone, the whole floor is going to open up, especially the absence of Gardner in the box drawing multiple defenders. Derrick's defender won't have such an easy job of just keeping an eye on Gardner. It will be much harder using that extra guy to help on scoring wings than it is on a relatively immobile low box scorer. I envision a team with Mayo and Burton getting big minutes and being creative and dynamic scorers from all over the floor. While I don't expect Derrick to ever become a competent shooter, I'd wager that he will be a much better drive and dish penetrator and a better finisher around the rim. I never expect any frosh to get big minutes under Buzz, but based on what we've heard about them, I expect a few of them to be productive in their limited minutes. A healthy Steve Taylor Jr can be a mobile scorer and especially a rebounder. Anderson will be what he should be, an energy guy off the bench.
I really think next year's team will be more in the mold of the teams Buzz likes to coach, and, at least from this fan's perspective, a fun team to watch.
Quote from: brandx on March 08, 2014, 03:41:20 PM
Yeah, and Burton was not good enough to beat out Juan. We all know that our best players don't start.
Great point.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 09, 2014, 04:12:14 AM
Willie, why not just go cheer for UW. Isn't it just that much easier?
You are a such a cry baby. Christ.
Thanks for calling me a cry baby and Christ in the same thread, but neither is true. Your problem is that you cannot stand LEGITIMATE criticism of the the poor coaching that went on this year--all year. And don't bother to come back with "Well the bitching has been constant", which is not true. What is true is that the coaching has been bad ALL YEAR. Buzz Williams needs to pull his head out and start coaching well again, and then the bitching will change.
And by the way--you can go root for UW, who may be a #1 seed in the dance, while Buzz is flying around in his jet trying to find a PG to back up Derrick.
A few years ago, we started the season with Mo Acker and David Cubillian as our guards. Nobody in their right mind thought we had a chance at a winning record, much less an NCAA berth. They surprised us then and they'll surprise us next year as well.
We started the 1974-1975 year without Maurice Lucas as well and had a typical "Al" year and made the NCAAs then too.
Next year's team has some holes, we know. Davante will be gone as will Chris Otule and Jamil Wilson. All are huge. But I at least am excited that Steve Taylor and Deonte Burton will assert themselves. I think Jujuan will be a huge surprise and I may be naive, but I think Todd Mayo can and will step up.
If they don't, I agree, it will be miserable. But give Buzz credit, he's pulled rabbits out of his hat and I think he will again.
Quote from: Ners on March 09, 2014, 09:19:46 AM
Great point.
Not so sure. You guys probably missed the fact that Burton played 18 minutes yesterday while Juan did not play. For the year Burton's minutes per game are only about 1.5 minutes behind Juan. That's a pretty big move for Burton considering Juan is an upper classman.
First off can we please not focus on who starts. Its not who starts, its who gets the minutes.
Second Buzz has said this countless times you have to be able to defend the position. Because of the two guards we have to play (and lets take that as a given and not argue about that for a second) Burton has to defend the other team's #3 or #4. Burton is getting better at defending in the team concept so Juan's minutes are generally decreasing (unless there is a special defensive assignment). Also Burton can get a little selfish with the ball and get out of what the team is trying to do. When he does, unless you just want free for all street ball, you have to sit him for a while.
I think Buzz would love to have Burton out there 30 minutes a game if he could count on him to play good team defense and team offense. I think he will next year.
Buzz wants to win games and he'll play the guys that he feels give him the best chance to win games. He's not going to play guys and lose because of some kind of blind loyalty. If you believe that you really don't think much of Buzz.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 09, 2014, 09:57:27 AM
Not so sure. You guys probably missed the fact that Burton played 18 minutes yesterday while Juan did not play. For the year Burton's minutes per game are only about 1.5 minutes behind Juan. That's a pretty big move for Burton considering Juan is an upper classman.
First off can we please not focus on who starts. Its not who starts, its who gets the minutes.
Second Buzz has said this countless times you have to be able to defend the position. Because of the two guards we have to play (and lets take that as a given and not argue about that for a second) Burton has to defend the other team's #3 or #4. Burton is getting better at defending in the team concept so Juan's minutes are generally decreasing (unless there is a special defensive assignment). Also Burton can get a little selfish with the ball and get out of what the team is trying to do. When he does, unless you just want free for all street ball, you have to sit him for a while.
I think Buzz would love to have Burton out there 30 minutes a game if he could count on him to play good team defense and team offense. I think he will next year.
Buzz wants to win games and he'll play the guys that he feels give him the best chance to win games. He's not going to play guys and lose because of some kind of blind loyalty. If you believe that you really don't think much of Buzz.
I'm not a proponent of the upperclassmen should automatically get more PT as a result of their class status. So, I don't think it is remarkable that a talented freshman, such as Burton, would only slightly trail a highly ineffective upperclassmen in minutes by sheer virtue of class status. In the case of Dawson and Derrick, the minute differential is so incredibly stark - it defies logical explanation, when Derrick has been so ineffective throughout most of the season.
Was great to see Burton get 18 yesterday - what wasn't so great was that Burton got just 6 minutes after halftime...He didn't see action from the 7:11 mark of regulation, until the last play of 2OT. Why?
I have zero problem with Burton being absolutely aggressive and getting the ball to the basket - call it street ball if you want - but he's a force, on a team that greatly need(s)/needed force and aggression. He was the only guy besides Gardner (+7) yesterday who had a positive +/- effect on game (+6). Burton scored 10 points in 18 minutes...even if he isn't the defender Juan is - Juan's defense isn't so incredible that it limits the opposition by 10 points...and I'd say the same about Derrick. Eventually you have to play the guys that can put the ball in the bucket, or at least have a much better propensity to do so..
And yes, Mayo had some foul trouble yesterday - but he only got 27 minutes in a 48 minute game...didn't play till the 12:19 mark of 2nd half. Inexcusable.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 09, 2014, 07:56:37 AM
I am optimistic about next year and don't think an NCAA bid is out of the question.
Even though Derrick was a junior, he spent his first two years as a backup and this was the first time he was given the keys to the team. He will start next year and play much better, while logging less minutes, more like 25-28/game, as Buzz will have more comfortable options in Duane and a more experienced Dawson to take minutes at the position.
The other thing is that with Gardner/Otule gone, the whole floor is going to open up, especially the absence of Gardner in the box drawing multiple defenders. Derrick's defender won't have such an easy job of just keeping an eye on Gardner. It will be much harder using that extra guy to help on scoring wings than it is on a relatively immobile low box scorer. I envision a team with Mayo and Burton getting big minutes and being creative and dynamic scorers from all over the floor. While I don't expect Derrick to ever become a competent shooter, I'd wager that he will be a much better drive and dish penetrator and a better finisher around the rim. I never expect any frosh to get big minutes under Buzz, but based on what we've heard about them, I expect a few of them to be productive in their limited minutes. A healthy Steve Taylor Jr can be a mobile scorer and especially a rebounder. Anderson will be what he should be, an energy guy off the bench.
I really think next year's team will be more in the mold of the teams Buzz likes to coach, and, at least from this fan's perspective, a fun team to watch.
Great analysis. Derricks problems this year were caused by his man not guarding him to clog the lane on Ox and preventing Derrick from driving. OK, then play 5 guards next year so Derrick can drive and dish.
This defense of Derrick takes the cake--not sure Buzz didn't write it.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 08, 2014, 06:38:21 PM
What am I wrong about? Derrick will start next year and get his 30 minutes a game. Put your cash down on that if you can find somebody to bet against it?
I'll be happy to bet you Derrick does not average over 30 minutes per game next year.
I think we're going to be small enough that we may need a 3-guard look.
Quote from: MUtbone on March 08, 2014, 04:23:38 PM
Personally, for next season to be successful, I'm putting a lot of stock in Duane Wilson to save the PG position. Before this year I thought he was the best recruit for us coming in. Unfortunately, he is behind the curve in terms of experience obviously. Also Buzz seems reluctant to pass the reigns over. We'll see.
I keep reading about this hypothesis that Duane Wilson is better than Derrick and Dawson, and its just a shame he was injured this year.
Here's why I think this might be misguided: Duane was medically cleared to practice by December 5th. After getting a front-row view of the deficiencies at his position--leading to a 5-3 record with losses to Arizona State, Ohio State, San Diego State--and narrow wins over the likes of New Hampshire and Southern--he decided that he was going to redshirt anyway.
And I don't by the fact that missing 6 weeks of practice means you can't be ready sometime within the next three months.
If the underlying assumption is that he is our best option at PG, why would he decide to sit out the rest of the season after returning to practice after missing the first 8 games? Even if it took a month of practice to get back into playing shape--that's back for conference play. Or even a month later, late January when we were 4-4 and still very much alive for an NCAA bid?
Buzz says this was entirely Duane's and his family's decision. Does anyone really think they would have said "redshirt me" given what they saw about our PG stituation? "I'm good enough to get us to a 9th straight NCAA tournament, but I'd rather have a full season in 2017-18 than only play 18 to 20 games this year and help Chris, Jake, Davante and Jamil make the tourney their senior year."
If anyone beleives he's really that good, then you are essentially saying that he and Buzz tanked the 2013-14 season in exchange for a year of eligilbity in the 2017-18 season.
Sorry, but I can't see Duane doing that to the team, and I certainly can't see Buzz allowing him to do it to the team.
That leaves the more logical alternative--that right now, he's not good enough to beat out either Derrick Wilson or John Dawson for minutes. Buzz told him that as poor as Derrick and Dawson are playing, that Duane is even further down in the dept chart and won't see any game time anyway, so he might as well redshirt. "Your choice, of course, but if this helps you make up your mind, I'll tell you right now that I'm not playing you."
And I don't see Derrick and John sitting and resting on their laurels. As hard as Duane is going to work to get into the rotation, Derrick and John are going to work hard to keep him 3rd in the depth chart. At this point, I think the working assumption has to be that our PG situtation next year is no different that what he had this year.
Whoever plays to the scouting report best will start. I expect Derrick and Juan will be at the top of that list.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 09, 2014, 10:16:09 AM
Great analysis. Derricks problems this year were caused by his man not guarding him to clog the lane on Ox and preventing Derrick from driving. OK, then play 5 guards next year so Derrick can drive and dish.
This defense of Derrick takes the cake--not sure Buzz didn't write it.
You have never seen me write that Derrick is a good offensive player. Nowhere in the post you were commenting did I say that Derrick's problems were caused by Gardner. In another post today I said his biggest failing as a player this year was his inability to work the game with Gardner, our best interior scorer in a very long time. I said because we won't have that prolific low post scorer next year his deficiencies as a player will be less pronounced.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 09, 2014, 10:16:09 AM
Great analysis. Derricks problems this year were caused by his man not guarding him to clog the lane on Ox and preventing Derrick from driving. OK, then play 5 guards next year so Derrick can drive and dish.
This defense of Derrick takes the cake--not sure Buzz didn't write it.
The post you quoted wasn't a "defense of Derrick". It was a well thought out and accurate description of how this team will be structured and play differently next year and how that change might actually benefit Derrick. It was entirely logical.
Why am I not surprised you couldn't grasp this?
I just wanted to correct a couple of your responses to my post
Quote from: Ners on March 09, 2014, 10:14:03 AM
I'm not a proponent of the upperclassmen should automatically get more PT as a result of their class status.
Upperclassmen don't get more PT as a result of their status. There is a huge amount that a player with 2 years in the program understands and knows how to execute that an incoming player does not. They don't just put 5 guys on the court, roll the ball out there and say play boys. On defense you have to understand all the rotations, assignments when your man doesn't have the ball, etc. On offense you have to know the plays. Upper Level D. 1 basketball is a team game and if one or 2 of the 5 isn't playing as expected it hurts the whole team and ultimately reduces their chance of winning. Since the goal is to win the most games first year players are generally going to play less until the fully understand and can counted on to execute what the team is doing.
Quote from: Ners on March 09, 2014, 10:14:03 AM
In the case of Dawson and Derrick, the minute differential is so incredibly stark - it defies logical explanation.
Here you are inferring that Burton and Dawson are similar. This is simply not true. Burton is a unique talent. A top 50 kid out of high school with athletic ability that is off the chart. Dawson was no where near the top 100 coming out of HS with his other offer being from Wyoming. MU took him as insurance at the PG position figuring that he would be willing bide his time as a back-up. In their playing time I believe they both played to their expected levels. Burton looked like at Top 50 recruit much of the time while Dawson looked like an average freshman.
As I've said before if John Dawson had the talent of Dominic James by the time the conference season rolled around he would have been playing most of the minutes. But John is not DJ, he's not Burton, he's not even close. I hope he stays with the program because I believe he can develop into a decent player that we'll be glad to have as a experience upperclassman. This year proves you can never have too many point guards.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 09, 2014, 01:57:08 PM
I just wanted to correct a couple of your responses to my postUpperclassmen don't get more PT as a result of their status. There is a huge amount that a player with 2 years in the program understands and knows how to execute that an incoming player does not. They don't just put 5 guys on the court, roll the ball out there and say play boys. On defense you have to understand all the rotations, assignments when your man doesn't have the ball, etc. On offense you have to know the plays. Upper Level D. 1 basketball is a team game and if one or 2 of the 5 isn't playing as expected it hurts the whole team and ultimately reduces their chance of winning. Since the goal is to win the most games first year players are generally going to play less until the fully understand and can counted on to execute what the team is doing. Here you are inferring that Burton and Dawson are similar. This is simply not true. Burton is a unique talent. A top 50 kid out of high school with athletic ability that is off the chart. Dawson was no where near the top 100 coming out of HS with his other offer being from Wyoming. MU took him as insurance at the PG position figuring that he would be willing bide his time as a back-up. In their playing time I believe they both played to their expected levels. Burton looked like at Top 50 recruit much of the time while Dawson looked like an average freshman.
As I've said before if John Dawson had the talent of Dominic James by the time the conference season rolled around he would have been playing most of the minutes. But John is not DJ, he's not Burton, he's not even close. I hope he stays with the program because I believe he can develop into a decent player that we'll be glad to have as a experience upperclassman. This year proves you can never have too many point guards.
John had 30+ scholarship offers including Creighton...just to clear that up. I agree, he is not Burton - Burton is an athletic freak - and regardless of him not being in the program as long as Juan..and not knowing rotations, etc., he actually produces on the court...which seemingly should take precedence over every other metric.
I've said it 50+ times here - people want to make judgements on Dawson that he's overmatched, or wouldn't be better than Derrick if given 30+ minutes per game - yet he's only bee given the chance 1 game. Imagine what Derrick's numbers would look like if he was getting 10-12 minutes per game..comprised of 4-5 segments of 2:30 of run?
I'm not trying to argue for a minute that John would be Dominic as a freshman...I've simply argued that he has much more basketball upside/talent than Derrick - like Burton compared to Juan to an extent - whereby the bar set by the upperclassmen is so incredibly low...you don't have to be Dominic James good or even Burton good to improve the quality of play at the positions in question - PG and the 3.
Quote from: The Equalizer on March 09, 2014, 11:07:28 AM
I keep reading about this hypothesis that Duane Wilson is better than Derrick and Dawson, and its just a shame he was injured this year.
Here's why I think this might be misguided: Duane was medically cleared to practice by December 5th. After getting a front-row view of the deficiencies at his position--leading to a 5-3 record with losses to Arizona State, Ohio State, San Diego State--and narrow wins over the likes of New Hampshire and Southern--he decided that he was going to redshirt anyway.
And I don't by the fact that missing 6 weeks of practice means you can't be ready sometime within the next three months.
If the underlying assumption is that he is our best option at PG, why would he decide to sit out the rest of the season after returning to practice after missing the first 8 games? Even if it took a month of practice to get back into playing shape--that's back for conference play. Or even a month later, late January when we were 4-4 and still very much alive for an NCAA bid?
Buzz says this was entirely Duane's and his family's decision. Does anyone really think they would have said "redshirt me" given what they saw about our PG stituation? "I'm good enough to get us to a 9th straight NCAA tournament, but I'd rather have a full season in 2017-18 than only play 18 to 20 games this year and help Chris, Jake, Davante and Jamil make the tourney their senior year."
If anyone beleives he's really that good, then you are essentially saying that he and Buzz tanked the 2013-14 season in exchange for a year of eligilbity in the 2017-18 season.
Sorry, but I can't see Duane doing that to the team, and I certainly can't see Buzz allowing him to do it to the team.
That leaves the more logical alternative--that right now, he's not good enough to beat out either Derrick Wilson or John Dawson for minutes. Buzz told him that as poor as Derrick and Dawson are playing, that Duane is even further down in the dept chart and won't see any game time anyway, so he might as well redshirt. "Your choice, of course, but if this helps you make up your mind, I'll tell you right now that I'm not playing you."
And I don't see Derrick and John sitting and resting on their laurels. As hard as Duane is going to work to get into the rotation, Derrick and John are going to work hard to keep him 3rd in the depth chart. At this point, I think the working assumption has to be that our PG situtation next year is no different that what he had this year.
I do not believe for a second that it was Duane's decision, but many here buy that. More Buzzspeak. If that is true, why the muzzle on it. Until I hear it from the kid or his parents, I believe Buzz pressured the kid so he would not have to put up with people advocating him all year. Buzz would do that, because it is his way or the highway. Now I hope to be proven wrong--let the kid tell us the story. Oh, I forgot, according to the Buzz slurpers, it is none of our business.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 09, 2014, 04:16:52 PM
I do not believe for a second that it was Duane's decision, but many here buy that. More Buzzspeak. If that is true, why the muzzle on it. Until I hear it from the kid or his parents, I believe Buzz pressured the kid so he would not have to put up with people advocating him all year. Buzz would do that, because it is his way or the highway. Now I hope to be proven wrong--let the kid tell us the story. Oh, I forgot, according to the Buzz slurpers, it is none of our business.
It is none of our business.
I can only think of one time where a kid spoke to the media about his decision to redshirt. And all the kid said was that he knew he wasn't ready and he was going to use the off year to get ready.
There has been no muzzle on the kid. If you want to blame someone, blame Journal Setinal for not having better Marquette coverage. If they tried to interview Duane, it would be allowed.
Ok, for this crowd, I'm going to go out on a limb.
As much as we complain about D Wilson and Juan Anderson, Buzz is 10 times more aware of the issues both players have. With a school that spends more money on basketball than it probably does on God, there is not much room for error. Have another year like this one and the griping burns past these blogs and into the real world... where Buzz's position could potentially be under evaluation.
My view is that Buzz went with the line-up he did because he inevitably saw something in practice that made both the best options he had for their positions. We might not like it -- in fact few do -- but I suspect there is much more to Buzz's decision than ego or stubbornness often cited on this Board.
As the seasons change and we go into the off-season, I suspect correcting THIS problem will be Buzz's primary priority (perhaps with signing Diamond Stone). I'll give him credit -- he's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat and I suspect he will do so again. It's a hunch, no doubt, but it is a hunch based on past experience.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 09, 2014, 09:57:27 AM
Not so sure. You guys probably missed the fact that Burton played 18 minutes yesterday while Juan did not play. For the year Burton's minutes per game are only about 1.5 minutes behind Juan. That's a pretty big move for Burton considering Juan is an upper classman.
First off can we please not focus on who starts. Its not who starts, its who gets the minutes.
Second Buzz has said this countless times you have to be able to defend the position. Because of the two guards we have to play (and lets take that as a given and not argue about that for a second) Burton has to defend the other team's #3 or #4. Burton is getting better at defending in the team concept so Juan's minutes are generally decreasing (unless there is a special defensive assignment). Also Burton can get a little selfish with the ball and get out of what the team is trying to do. When he does, unless you just want free for all street ball, you have to sit him for a while.
I think Buzz would love to have Burton out there 30 minutes a game if he could count on him to play good team defense and team offense. I think he will next year.
Buzz wants to win games and he'll play the guys that he feels give him the best chance to win games. He's not going to play guys and lose because of some kind of blind loyalty. If you believe that you really don't think much of Buzz.
Second time today I have corrected this misconception. Even without seeing the floor against St. John's, Juan logged more minutes in the 2nd half of the BE season than the first half.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 11, 2014, 12:20:55 AM
Ok, for this crowd, I'm going to go out on a limb.
As much as we complain about D Wilson and Juan Anderson, Buzz is 10 times more aware of the issues both players have. With a school that spends more money on basketball than it probably does on God, there is not much room for error. Have another year like this one and the griping burns past these blogs and into the real world... where Buzz's position could potentially be under evaluation.
My view is that Buzz went with the line-up he did because he inevitably saw something in practice that made both the best options he had for their positions. We might not like it -- in fact few do -- but I suspect there is much more to Buzz's decision than ego or stubbornness often cited on this Board.
As the seasons change and we go into the off-season, I suspect correcting THIS problem will be Buzz's primary priority (perhaps with signing Diamond Stone). I'll give him credit -- he's pulled a few rabbits out of his hat and I suspect he will do so again. It's a hunch, no doubt, but it is a hunch based on past experience.
Thank you. This board needed that post.
Can we please get Willie Warrior off this board? He is not a Marquette fan. I don't care what you say you don't talk about our players and coach like that if you are.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 10, 2014, 09:14:59 AM
It is none of our business.
I can only think of one time where a kid spoke to the media about his decision to redshirt. And all the kid said was that he knew he wasn't ready and he was going to use the off year to get ready.
There has been no muzzle on the kid. If you want to blame someone, blame Journal Setinal for not having better Marquette coverage. If they tried to interview Duane, it would be allowed.
You do not know that.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 11, 2014, 07:32:47 AM
You do not know that.
You do not know that I do not know that.
Quote from: mujivitz06 on March 11, 2014, 12:43:10 AM
Can we please get Willie Warrior off this board? He is not a Marquette fan. I don't care what you say you don't talk about our players and coach like that if you are.
Although willie is a joyless drone who never has anything good to say about anybody, he has as much right to be on this board as you or I do.
And you have the right to put him on IGNORE.
That's what I've done, and my Scoop experience has become much more enjoyable as a result.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2014, 09:15:48 AM
You do not know that I do not know that.
You are right--so why hasn't the Journal interviewed Wilson; or why don't interviews have to be approved by the coaching staff; or why has not Wilson confirmed that it was his decision? After you have answered these with your knowledge, advise who your sources are.
Next year, the team will go as far as the sophomores take it.
Quote from: MU82 on March 11, 2014, 10:08:51 AM
Although willie is a joyless drone who never has anything good to say about anybody, he has as much right to be on this board as you or I do.
And you have the right to put him on IGNORE.
That's what I've done, and my Scoop experience has become much more enjoyable as a result.
Once again 82 has it wrong. "Joyless drone" appears to be a personal attack, so I will let the mods address that. "Nothing good to say about anybody"--I have posted here countless times about Burton, Gardner, JJJ, etc. and many past MU standouts--too many to mention. I have also praised Buzz when I felt he deserved it--just not going to gush over a poor season. So that shows that MU82 continues to utilize his logical reasoning to less than its full skill level. Now it is true that this year has been abysmal, and I have called out the biggest reasons: poor coaching decisions; poor rotations; poor player development; inconsistent play;etc. So yeah, there has not been much joy to this season. If MU 82 found joy in the season or by putting me on ignore, I am joyful for him. Criticism of the coach for such a disappointing season IMO is fair game. I apologize for offending those with a thin skin, but welcome to the real world. Obviously some people cannot handle that--that is their right. But I do stand by what I have said. Now to end this post on a joyful note: I am overjoyed at the success of the Program under Buzz up to this year; it is joyful to see many former MU players in the pros; it is joyful that the program has had such a rich history and many great players; it is joyful that we have scoop to talk and bitch about MU basketball; and it is also joyful that it is only a college basketball program, and not something more life changing for us fans.
Quote from: downtown85 on March 08, 2014, 04:21:31 PM
Here is what I hope:
Most minutes:
PG Du. Wilson
SG Todd
SF Burton
PF Steve
C Fisher (obviously after he is eligible)
Back up minutes:
PG Dawson, De. Wilson
SG JJJ, Hill
SF Shayok, Cohen
PF Harris, Anderson
C Pierce
Here's hoping.
One of those guys won't be here, unless one pays their own way.
I agree. Its hard for me to believe we will have 0 transfers. Either one of the freshmen is as good as gone.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 08, 2014, 03:49:54 PM
Duane Wilson, Todd and Ahmed Hill in our three guard offense. Burton and Steve Taylor Jr up front to start, Luke joins the rotation 2nd semester. If Ahmed can play the point, that's another option. Derrick will get at least 15 minutes. How things shake out with JD, JA, JJJ and the other freshmen we will see. I hope JJJ is back, but I have a bad feeling. We'll be small and young next year.
Given the usual level of speculation this board has I'm genuinely surprised this hasn't been talked about more. Someone should have a boyfriend's cousin's roommate tipping them off on a JJJ transfer.
JJJ was the freshman I was rooting for most this season. Really wish he would have had a bigger opportunity and impact. Now, I'm just trying to make peace with the potential that he'll leave. I dont have anything besides in-game observations and intuition but he might be wearing a different uni next year
Quote from: Ari Gold on March 11, 2014, 02:03:53 PM
Given the usual level of speculation this board has I'm genuinely surprised this hasn't been talked about more. Someone should have a boyfriend's cousin's roommate tipping them off on a JJJ transfer.
JJJ was the freshman I was rooting for most this season. Really wish he would have had a bigger opportunity and impact. Now, I'm just trying to make peace with the potential that he'll leave. I dont have anything besides in-game observations and intuition but he might be wearing a different uni next year
If JJJ wants more playing time, and presumably, wants to go to the NBA, sitting out another year does not seem like a wise decision. I'd be surprised if he left.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 11, 2014, 03:39:46 PM
If JJJ wants more playing time, and presumably, wants to go to the NBA, sitting out another year does not seem like a wise decision. I'd be surprised if he left.
+1000
The guard spots are to hard to predict. We really do not know, if Duane can stay healthy. We do not know if JJJ will be back. Even Mayo not coming back is a possibility, although with his recent success I feel more positive that he is coming back. I think the front court is more obvious. First semester SF Juan, C. Taylor, PF Burton 2nd semseter SF Burton, C. Taylor, PF Fischer
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 11, 2014, 03:39:46 PM
If JJJ wants more playing time, and presumably, wants to go to the NBA, sitting out another year does not seem like a wise decision. I'd be surprised if he left.
I would be more surprised if he stayed. Buzz has his favorites and he has since he's been here. It's clear that JJJ isn't one of them and I'm sure he realizes it. I also think that people underestimate how much it probably irks him that Jake plays how many minutes he does and now he doesn't even get any playing time. Jake has had some decent games but he also disappears for games at a time and it is really uncalled for that JJJ can't get some playing time when this happens. Sitting on the bench as a top 40 kid when the guy playing all the minutes ahead of you disappears frequently can't sit real well with him. To his credit he has appeared to be a good teammate this year, but I guarantee you this season wasn't what he had in mind when he committed here and I think if he does leave we are going to really regret not giving him more time this year.
Quote from: bilsu on March 11, 2014, 06:25:22 PM
The guard spots are to hard to predict. We really do not know, if Duane can stay healthy. We do not know if JJJ will be back. Even Mayo not coming back is a possibility, although with his recent success I feel more positive that he is coming back.
Todd Mayo going on to become a 4 year player at MU would be the upset of all upsets. Dude went to like 5 high schools.
Quote from: The Lens on March 11, 2014, 08:49:52 PM
Todd Mayo going on to become a 4 year player at MU would be the upset of all upsets. Dude went to like 5 high schools.
Which maybe explains some of his challenges academically..and perhaps behaviorally...which some have wanted to pile on him for...not a lot of stability in life with that upbringing. I applaud Todd and Buzz for both sticking with each other...both could have quit on the other at a number of different points - but they both "toughed" it out and it appears to be paying dividends for both. Kudos to both of them.
Quote from: Ners on March 11, 2014, 09:20:43 PM
Which maybe explains some of his challenges academically..and perhaps behaviorally...which some have wanted to pile on him for...not a lot of stability in life with that upbringing. I applaud Todd and Buzz for both sticking with each other...both could have quit on the other at a number of different points - but they both "toughed" it out and it appears to be paying dividends for both. Kudos to both of them.
+1
College is supposed to be a learning experience.
Quote from: mubuzz on March 11, 2014, 08:35:10 PM
I would be more surprised if he stayed. Buzz has his favorites and he has since he's been here. It's clear that JJJ isn't one of them and I'm sure he realizes it.
Sigh. No coach ever determines playing time based on his "favorites." If that were true, I'm pretty sure Mayo would never see the floor. And Chris would get way more playing time than Davante. This is a baseless arguement that people use when they can't accept that while our starters aren't great, our bench players aren't any better. Oh, and if Jake was a favorite, then why did he get what? 4 minutes of conference play last season?
Quote from: mubuzz on March 11, 2014, 08:35:10 PM
I also think that people underestimate how much it probably irks him that Jake plays how many minutes he does and now he doesn't even get any playing time. Jake has had some decent games but he also disappears for games at a time and it is really uncalled for that JJJ can't get some playing time when this happens. Sitting on the bench as a top 40 kid when the guy playing all the minutes ahead of you disappears frequently can't sit real well with him.
One, you don't know how JJJ feels about Jake. I'm pretty sure Buzz has made it explicitly clear to him why Jake plays and JJJ doesn't. In fact, it doesn't make sense to connect the two because they play different positions. If JJJ was going to take time away from anybody, it would be Mayo. Is it any coincidence that JJJ stopped getting minutes after Mayo started to really take off? Mayo/JJJ are both slashing guards. Jake is a shooting guard. Because we are so bad at making threes, we need Jake on the floor at all times to space out the defense. Buzz would love to not play Jake, but who could replace the three point shooting that he brings?
Quote from: mubuzz on March 11, 2014, 08:35:10 PM
To his credit he has appeared to be a good teammate this year, but I guarantee you this season wasn't what he had in mind when he committed here and I think if he does leave we are going to really regret not giving him more time this year.
He has been a good teammate. He's been a lot more engaged and excited than I have seen past transfers be. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything. He may have not realized how far behind other players he would be, but I guarantee that Buzz told him that playing time is earned in practice. All JJJ has to do in order to get more playing time is be better in practice. It is quite simple. If he transfers for that reason, then he is quitting, bowing out, and admitting that he couldn't cut it here. That is something a lot of college aged men are simply not willing to do. If he transfers somewhere else, I guarantee it will be to a lesser program and we will find someone better.
Look, we are losing someone. Either by transfer or decommit. Personally, I think Harris, Dawson, and Anderson are all more likely to transfer than JJJ. There will be plenty of minutes next season that are his to lose. Plus, he wouldn't have to sit out a year. If we lose JJJ, it will be because he has concerns about future playing time (Hill passing him on the depth chart) not past playing time.
Quote from: The Equalizer on March 09, 2014, 11:07:28 AM
And I don't see Derrick and John sitting and resting on their laurels. As hard as Duane is going to work to get into the rotation, Derrick and John are going to work hard to keep him 3rd in the depth chart. At this point, I think the working assumption has to be that our PG situtation next year is no different that what he had this year.
I am sure this will be the case, if so, the point guard position will be better next year as a result.
I love the logic of a player transferring because his coach doesn't play freshmen.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 12, 2014, 09:37:33 AM
Sigh. No coach ever determines playing time based on his "favorites." If that were true, I'm pretty sure Mayo would never see the floor. And Chris would get way more playing time than Davante. This is a baseless arguement that people use when they can't accept that while our starters aren't great, our bench players aren't any better. Oh, and if Jake was a favorite, then why did he get what? 4 minutes of conference play last season?
One, you don't know how JJJ feels about Jake. I'm pretty sure Buzz has made it explicitly clear to him why Jake plays and JJJ doesn't. In fact, it doesn't make sense to connect the two because they play different positions. If JJJ was going to take time away from anybody, it would be Mayo. Is it any coincidence that JJJ stopped getting minutes after Mayo started to really take off? Mayo/JJJ are both slashing guards. Jake is a shooting guard. Because we are so bad at making threes, we need Jake on the floor at all times to space out the defense. Buzz would love to not play Jake, but who could replace the three point shooting that he brings?
He has been a good teammate. He's been a lot more engaged and excited than I have seen past transfers be. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything. He may have not realized how far behind other players he would be, but I guarantee that Buzz told him that playing time is earned in practice. All JJJ has to do in order to get more playing time is be better in practice. It is quite simple. If he transfers for that reason, then he is quitting, bowing out, and admitting that he couldn't cut it here. That is something a lot of college aged men are simply not willing to do. If he transfers somewhere else, I guarantee it will be to a lesser program and we will find someone better.
Look, we are losing someone. Either by transfer or decommit. Personally, I think Harris, Dawson, and Anderson are all more likely to transfer than JJJ. There will be plenty of minutes next season that are his to lose. Plus, he wouldn't have to sit out a year. If we lose JJJ, it will be because he has concerns about future playing time (Hill passing him on the depth chart) not past playing time.
TAMU, I enjoy reading your thoughts even though I often disagree with you. To think that coaches don't have favorites is ridiculous. Employers have favorites, teachers have favorites, and coaches have favorites. It's the way the world works. Against Xavier when Buzz ran to half court to greet Derrick and bear hugged him, I felt like it was a "we finally did it little buddy" type of a moment. The way he gushes on and on about him, he clearly is a favorite.
You also keep saying that JJJ and JT don't play the same position. Are they not both shooting guards? In all honesty I have come around on Jake and find him to be a valuable member of out team. He is prone to disappearing for long stretches at a time where he offers very little however. To not get JJJ time when this happens is very disappointing. These highly ranked kids hear from everybody all the time how great they are throughout high school. To come into a team that is 17-14 on the year and basically get zero playing time lately must be a very tough pill to swallow for him. He has a little swagger to him and I guarantee he thinks if he was out there he would be helping this team be better than what we've shown. He doesn't look as engaged to me lately as I have previously mentioned. Earlier this year he was one of the first guys jumping up and down on the bench. Also, I have watched him during timeout huddles e past 3 games and he is the furthest guy from Buzz and is often looking up at the scoreboard while the huddle is going on. Possibly nothing, but it stands out to me.
I think Buzz likes JJJ. He talked glowingly about him before the season started. He is not in the rotation, basically because Thomas and Mayo are getting all the minutes. We have not won a blowout game the whole conference season, so there are no garbage minutes.
Coaches are human. They obviously have favorites. Al famously had several favorites, including his son.
Coaches still are pragmatic, though. Buzz threatened numerous times to start Derrick over Junior but didn't because Junior simply was better. Buzz loves Otule and often criticizes Gardner, but he still gives Gardner nearly twice as many minutes.
So yes, coaches have favorites. Always have, always will. Mostly, though, coaches want to win. If Buzz thought Dawson or anybody else would help him win more than Derrick, he'd play Dawson more than he plays Derrick. Maybe Buzz has been wrong all season about this, but he isn't losing on purpose just because Derrick is his favorite. Like all other coaches, Buzz isn't wired to lose.
Quote from: mubuzz on March 12, 2014, 10:53:23 AM
TAMU, I enjoy reading your thoughts even though I often disagree with you. To think that coaches don't have favorites is ridiculous. Employers have favorites, teachers have favorites, and coaches have favorites. It's the way the world works. Against Xavier when Buzz ran to half court to greet Derrick and bear hugged him, I felt like it was a "we finally did it little buddy" type of a moment. The way he gushes on and on about him, he clearly is a favorite.
Absolutely he has favorites. Hell, I have favorite employees. I don't treat them differently however. My only argument is that Buzz doesn't assign playing time based on who his favorites are. As MU82 and I pointed out, Juan and Chris still get bench player minutes despite being "favorites." Jake barely played last season despite being a favorite. Derrick was 12 mpg guy last season despite being a favorite. Buzz will always play those who give us the better chance to win. The one exception (and its not really an exception) is if the player is having off the court issues (ala Mayo).
Quote from: mubuzz on March 12, 2014, 10:53:23 AM
You also keep saying that JJJ and JT don't play the same position. Are they not both shooting guards? In all honesty I have come around on Jake and find him to be a valuable member of out team. He is prone to disappearing for long stretches at a time where he offers very little however. To not get JJJ time when this happens is very disappointing.
Not really no. If you look at our most played lineups, most effective lineups, and the players that get the most time, you get:
1: Derrick
2: Mayo
3: Thomas
4: Jamil
5: Gardner
Mayo and Thomas play at the same time in a three guard lineup. We don't have a true small forward. In a three guard lineup you typically have a point guard (Derrick), shooting guard (Thomas), and a slashing guard (Mayo). Mayo and JJJ can shoot the three, but not nearly as effectively as Jake can. With a PG like Derrick (who is not even remotely a shooting threat) you need a bona fide three point threat out their to balance him out. Putting JJJ in for Thomas would collapse the defense even more. There would be no room to drive and no room for the posts to operate. JJJ was never labeled as a shooter, he is a slashing guard and a scorer. Unfortunately, his game is almost identical to Mayo. Mayo takes his minutes, not Jake.
Quote from: mubuzz on March 12, 2014, 10:53:23 AM
These highly ranked kids hear from everybody all the time how great they are throughout high school. To come into a team that is 17-14 on the year and basically get zero playing time lately must be a very tough pill to swallow for him.
I think that this is the first thing Buzz attempts to cure his players of. I can't imagine Buzz taking on a player who truly thought he was all that. Buzz talks these kids down for a reason. He doesn't say things like "we suck" and "we're not a very good team to keep these players egos in check.
If JJJ was truly better than the players in front of him on the depth chart, he would play. All he needs to do is be better than the people in front of him. If truly thinks he is better than the people in front of him after being unable to earn it, I'm not sure it' an attitude I want on the team.
Fortunately, I don't think he actually has this attitude. I think he is a tough kid who will be hungry to prove himself next season. He will be a great player. But he isn't a great player right now. He needs to earn his way there.
Quote from: mubuzz on March 11, 2014, 08:35:10 PM
I would be more surprised if he stayed. Buzz has his favorites and he has since he's been here. It's clear that JJJ isn't one of them and I'm sure he realizes it. I also think that people underestimate how much it probably irks him that Jake plays how many minutes he does and now he doesn't even get any playing time. Jake has had some decent games but he also disappears for games at a time and it is really uncalled for that JJJ can't get some playing time when this happens. Sitting on the bench as a top 40 kid when the guy playing all the minutes ahead of you disappears frequently can't sit real well with him. To his credit he has appeared to be a good teammate this year, but I guarantee you this season wasn't what he had in mind when he committed here and I think if he does leave we are going to really regret not giving him more time this year.
I'm wondering if the off the court adjustment has been harder for JJJ. Remember Mayo early on? For a while before being suspended he didn't play because he needed to get his academics in order. If that area is lacking, Buzz has a history of benching guys until they get their sh$t together. Could be the case with JJJ
Quote from: bilsu on March 12, 2014, 12:29:21 PM
I think Buzz likes JJJ. He talked glowingly about him before the season started. He is not in the rotation, basically because Thomas and Mayo are getting all the minutes. We have not won a blowout game the whole conference season, so there are no garbage minutes.
Pure speculation, but perhaps he told Buzz he intends to transfer at the seasons end and that could be the main reason his minutes have dropped. I can't think of many other logically reasons for the several DNP he has picked up lately when he played a decent amount early in the season and even into the BE schedule (First STJ matchup was the last game got good minutes I believe). Even the blowout against Villanova he didn't come in till what, 2 minutes to go? Doesn't look good IMO.
Quote from: 4th and State on March 12, 2014, 02:07:24 PM
Pure speculation, but perhaps he told Buzz he intends to transfer at the seasons end and that could be the main reason his minutes have dropped. I can't think of many other logically reasons for the several DNP he has picked up lately when he played a decent amount early in the season and even into the BE schedule (First STJ matchup was the last game got good minutes I believe). Even the blowout against Villanova he didn't come in till what, 2 minutes to go? Doesn't look good IMO.
Mayo and Jake were both playing much better later in the season.
With less scoring from the frontline next year, it will be hard for me to think that DWil will get more time or the same time. They will be young next year so have to grow with Duane, Dawson,
Hill, JJJ as your 4 guards, play Mayo on the wing with Burton, Taylor and Fisher when available. Do not see Cohen, Shayok, Derrick or Juan seeing as much time, I am sure I am wrong on the
last two, but hoping, Pierce will play just because of his size.
Quote from: 4th and State on March 12, 2014, 02:07:24 PM
Pure speculation, but perhaps he told Buzz he intends to transfer at the seasons end and that could be the main reason his minutes have dropped. I can't think of many other logically reasons for the several DNP he has picked up lately when he played a decent amount early in the season and even into the BE schedule (First STJ matchup was the last game got good minutes I believe). Even the blowout against Villanova he didn't come in till what, 2 minutes to go? Doesn't look good IMO.
JJJ's last game where he contributed significant minutes was Butler at home. Before that, he was either injured or contributing well. What happened during the Butler game? Mayo happened.
As many others were kind to point out, Mayo has really come into his own the past 9 games. His production has shot up and as a result, so have his minutes. Mayo and JJJ play the same position and the same style. Having them on the court at the same time is redundant and counter-productive.
JJJ's playing time has been cut because Buzz shortens always the rotation in the second half of the conference season, Mayo is playing really well, and because Jake is the only three point shooter on the team. Who is JJJ gonna take time from?
He may transfer, he may not. I have no idea. But I don't think that it would have been decided already. I doubt they could really keep that under wraps this long.
The emergence of Mayo was the main reason, but Jake also got hot, shooting 44% from 3PT (23-52) over the last 7 games (including 1-7 in the forgettable Villanova game). Jake also plays better defense than JJJ. With those two stepping up at the 2, and Burton earning more minutes at the 3, JJJ was left behind when Buzz tightened up the rotations.
Anyone who thinks Derrick Wilson will see less minutes next year is setting themselves up for major disappointment. With us being young and inexperienced next season, Buzz will lean heavily on his buddy for leadership. How that works out will be interesting.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 12, 2014, 02:58:52 PM
JJJ's last game where he contributed significant minutes was Butler at home. Before that, he was either injured or contributing well. What happened during the Butler game? Mayo happened.
As many others were kind to point out, Mayo has really come into his own the past 9 games. His production has shot up and as a result, so have his minutes. Mayo and JJJ play the same position and the same style. Having them on the court at the same time is redundant and counter-productive.
JJJ's playing time has been cut because Buzz shortens always the rotation in the second half of the conference season, Mayo is playing really well, and because Jake is the only three point shooter on the team. Who is JJJ gonna take time from?
He may transfer, he may not. I have no idea. But I don't think that it would have been decided already. I doubt they could really keep that under wraps this long.
There have been plenty of games where Jake hasn't played well recently. Against Providence 36 minutes played, 6 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 2 to's. Game before against Villanova 34 minutes played, 5 points, 4 rebounds, 0 assists, 2 to's. JJJ should have gotten a chance in those games to provide a spark. JJJ and Mayo are both more than capable of hitting 3's. I don't understand why you don't think they can play together. I would rather have a player capable of hitting 3's and putting the ball on the floor, than a one dimensional spot up shooter...especially when the one dimensional shooter is struggling. Were Pippen and Jordan redundant because their games were similar? I just find it odd you don't think they can play together and I disagree. In games against really athletic teams JT has looked very pedestrian and I think JJJ offers more against the athletic teams.
Quote from: mubuzz on March 12, 2014, 03:33:53 PM
There have been plenty of games where Jake hasn't played well recently. Against Providence 36 minutes played, 6 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 2 to's. Game before against Villanova 34 minutes played, 5 points, 4 rebounds, 0 assists, 2 to's. JJJ should have gotten a chance in those games to provide a spark. JJJ and Mayo are both more than capable of hitting 3's. I don't understand why you don't think they can play together. I would rather have a player capable of hitting 3's and putting the ball on the floor, than a one dimensional spot up shooter...especially when the one dimensional shooter is struggling. Where Pippen and Jordan redundant because their games were similar? I just find it odd you don't think they can play together and I disagree. In games against really athletic teams JT has looked very pedestrian and I think JJJ offers more against the athletic teams.
They can't play together on THIS team. We have a PG who can't shoot. We have a PF that shoots maybe 30% from 3. Our C can't shoot the 3. We need the SG/SF positions to be great from three to counter all the poor shooting. JJJ shoots 29% from 3. Mayo shoots 31%. They can't compare to Thomas' 40%. We need Thomas on the floor as often as possible to spread out the defense. Usually the PG could do that, but Derrick doesn't. So that role needs to be handled by Jake.
Imagine what defenses would do to us if Jake wasn't here. They would play 5 players in the paint and dare us to shoot over them. Mayo wouldn't be able to drive, JJJ wouldn't be able to drive, Derrick wouldn't be able to drive, Gardner wouldn't be able to operate in the post. We would launch shot after shot, make about 1/4 and lose by double digits. That's what I think would happen without Thomas this year. I don't think we can afford to cut his minutes.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 12, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
They can't play together on THIS team. We have a PG who can't shoot. We have a PF that shoots maybe 30% from 3. Our C can't shoot the 3. We need the SG/SF positions to be great from three to counter all the poor shooting. JJJ shoots 29% from 3. Mayo shoots 31%. They can't compare to Thomas' 40%. We need Thomas on the floor as often as possible to spread out the defense. Usually the PG could do that, but Derrick doesn't. So that role needs to be handled by Jake.
Imagine what defenses would do to us if Jake wasn't here. They would play 5 players in the paint and dare us to shoot over them. Mayo wouldn't be able to drive, JJJ wouldn't be able to drive, Derrick wouldn't be able to drive, Gardner wouldn't be able to operate in the post. We would launch shot after shot, make about 1/4 and lose by double digits. That's what I think would happen without Thomas this year. I don't think we can afford to cut his minutes.
I guess what mubuzz is saying is that, if JJJ were given the chance, maybe he could have established himself as somebody the defense would have had to defend. JJJ's added bonus would have been if the defender got to close to him, he could blow by the defender, drive and create either for himself or for others. And isn't it plausible that Mayo would have earned that respect if he played Jake's position?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 12, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
They can't play together on THIS team. We have a PG who can't shoot. We have a PF that shoots maybe 30% from 3. Our C can't shoot the 3. We need the SG/SF positions to be great from three to counter all the poor shooting. JJJ shoots 29% from 3. Mayo shoots 31%. They can't compare to Thomas' 40%. We need Thomas on the floor as often as possible to spread out the defense. Usually the PG could do that, but Derrick doesn't. So that role needs to be handled by Jake.
Imagine what defenses would do to us if Jake wasn't here. They would play 5 players in the paint and dare us to shoot over them. Mayo wouldn't be able to drive, JJJ wouldn't be able to drive, Derrick wouldn't be able to drive, Gardner wouldn't be able to operate in the post. We would launch shot after shot, make about 1/4 and lose by double digits. That's what I think would happen without Thomas this year. I don't think we can afford to cut his minutes.
Well letting our pg dictate what players are able to be on the court due to his limitations is a whole other discussion. I think that JJJ and Mayo shoot the 3 at a high enough clip that they would have to respect them almost as much as JT. JJJ is at .290 and JT is at .388 on threes this year. Obviously JT has shown to be a better 3 point shooter this year, but it's not like I'm comparing Someone who has no shooting ability to him. And having someone who could actually put the ball on the floor instead of floating around the perimeter might open up the offense a little more...we are so predictable on offense I think you are overvaluing JT's contributions. Btw in a similar sample size last year JT was 10-36 on 3's for a .278 clip while this year JJJ is 9-31 for a .290 clip. I think JT is a better shooter but not as much as you make it out to be.