After watching the game today against South Carolina, I would not want to be a GM taking these Kentucky kids. Very unimpressed. Cauley-Stein, Poytgress, the twins, the other frosh not even close to playing in the NBA. They do not even play together, there own agenda. Calipari should get back and recruit 4 year players with maybe 1 or 2 one and dones. Not impressed, not sure they improve under this system. He is really selling a lie to these kids, they may make the NBA after one year but how long do they play in the NBA. Mathews is making a mistake. The earlier players from MU who have said have done pretty good. Hopefully, this will be the last year that all the reporters stop making Kentucky #1 every year, these kids are way over
hyped.
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 01, 2014, 09:13:13 PM
After watching the game today against South Carolina, I would not want to be a GM taking these Kentucky kids. Very unimpressed. Cauley-Stein, Poytgress, the twins, the other frosh not even close to playing in the NBA. They do not even play together, there own agenda. Calipari should get back and recruit 4 year players with maybe 1 or 2 one and dones. Not impressed, not sure they improve under this system. He is really selling a lie to these kids, they may make the NBA after one year but how long do they play in the NBA. Mathews is making a mistake. The earlier players from MU who have said have done pretty good. Hopefully, this will be the last year that all the reporters stop making Kentucky #1 every year, these kids are way over
hyped.
I noticed that the other night when they lost to Arkansas. Like you said, it was just 5 guys - each playing for themselves. Nothing resembling a team. Look for them to be an early casualty in the tournament.
I agree. Honestly if I was an elite player I would be looking at Kansas (and Bill Self) or Duke (and Coach K) way before thinking about UK.
For a guy like Matthews he would have been better off at MU.
Superbar..
I'm pretty sure Cauley-Stein is a 4 year player. Or at least not a freshman.
Exellent points. I know it's easy to say in hindsight but the fact they were #1 to start the year is idiotic. They had proven NOTHING as a team.
Poythress is a bust. That guy doesn't even start on this squad and was supposed to be a 1 and done. He's a worse version of Kidd-Gilchrist.
I said this back in non conference time to a friend...I don't understand how Andrew Harrison is considered the better twin prospect. I know he is the PG but cmon. Watch them play. Ironically Andrew actually shoots better from 3 right now but ud think SG Aaron's 3 shot will come around. Andrew is completely underwhelming as a top 10 PG. Cuse got a steal with Ennis.
Randle is a beast cuz he can get to the line all the time but even he isn't full on ready yet.
I'm starthing to think this freshman class and draft was overrated in general and Bill Russell may be onto something. Even Wiggins has a lot to work on.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 01, 2014, 09:21:17 PM
Superbar..
I'm pretty sure Cauley-Stein is a 4 year player. Or at least not a freshman.
Cauley-Stein and the other guy I mentioned are sophomores realizing they were not ready for the NBA, neither are ready as sophomores. Both do not even start. These kids agenda is one thing, get me to the NBA. Both those soph's have no offensive game and have not improved one bit as sophomores. Calipari is really doing an injustice to most of these kids. Sure they get to
the NBA, but other than Anthony Davis are any real stars at the next level.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 01, 2014, 09:24:16 PM
Exellent points. I know it's easy to say in hindsight but the fact they were #1 to start the year is idiotic. They had proven NOTHING as a team.
Poythress is a bust. That guy doesn't even start on this squad and was supposed to be a 1 and done. He's a worse version of Kidd-Gilchrist.
I said this back in non conference time to a friend...I don't understand how Andrew Harrison is considered the better twin prospect. I know he is the PG but cmon. Watch them play. Ironically Andrew actually shoots better from 3 right now but ud think SG Aaron's 3 shot will come around. Andrew is completely underwhelming as a top 10 PG. Cuse got a steal with Ennis.
Randle is a beast cuz he can get to the line all the time but even he isn't full on ready yet.
I'm starthing to think this freshman class and draft was overrated in general and Bill Russell may be onto something. Even Wiggins has a lot to work on.
This is also exactly why the NBA doesn't want these guys going there right away and everyone's talk about them being worth millions already is ridiculous. They haven't proven themselves yet.
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 01, 2014, 09:26:49 PM
Cauley-Stein and the other guy I mentioned are sophomores realizing they were not ready for the NBA, neither are ready as sophomores. Both do not even start. These kids agenda is one thing, get me to the NBA. Both those soph's have no offensive game and have not improved one bit as sophomores. Calipari is really doing an injustice to most of these kids. Sure they get to
the NBA, but other than Anthony Davis are any real stars at the next level.
As sad as it is, Calipari is doing exactly what he should be doing. Why should he stop what's working for him and his career? The problem doesn't begin or end with Cal, he's just the result of the system.
Quote from: forgetful on March 01, 2014, 09:27:43 PM
This is also exactly why the NBA doesn't want these guys going there right away and everyone's talk about them being worth millions already is ridiculous. They haven't proven themselves yet.
NBA wants to change the rule to two-and-done. But probably won't be able to do it for a couple years when the next contract talks with the union come up.
Kuck Fentucky and Coach Calslime.
yeesh...
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/you-made-your-bed-john-calipari--now-lie-in-it-233738456-ncaab.html
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 01, 2014, 09:26:49 PM
Cauley-Stein and the other guy I mentioned are sophomores realizing they were not ready for the NBA, neither are ready as sophomores. Both do not even start. These kids agenda is one thing, get me to the NBA. Both those soph's have no offensive game and have not improved one bit as sophomores. Calipari is really doing an injustice to most of these kids. Sure they get to
the NBA, but other than Anthony Davis are any real stars at the next level.
John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins I personally think are bigger than Davis. Brandon Knight is made the transition fine he's just on the go nowhere Bucks. So I'd say three stars one good player and a ton of busts and projects.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 02, 2014, 10:05:52 PM
yeesh...
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/you-made-your-bed-john-calipari--now-lie-in-it-233738456-ncaab.html
This article to me makes it seem like he wants to be an NBA coach where he just comes up with the system and doesn't really need to control anything else.
Dan Needles at CH 12 in Milwaukee still won't let it go that Buzz stayed in the locker room for 90 min after the S Hall game a few years back and didn't come out and answer questions. Still talks about it. These sports writers get all high and mighty and it seems to always come back to an intentionally missed post game press conference. Get over yourself--your story isn't as important as you think it is.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 02, 2014, 07:38:40 AM
Kuck Fentucky and Coach Calslime.
We'll considered and thought through commentary with a view to seeing all angles per usual.
Didn't many folks here write off Wisconsin years ago? Villanova a few years ago? A certain coach has been killed and buried many times over here as well. Plenty of folks burying Creighton after this year, just as fans elsewhere buried MU prior to the start of the Big East season in 2005.
Kentucky is still going to be Kentucky. This is all expectations driven, much of it of their own doing and certainly their wildly ridiculous fans. They'll be back, they'll adjust and adapt.
As much as I hate Coach Cal, you can't really say he's doing a disservice to these kids. He's gotten 18 kids to the association in 4 years. That's more than 4 a year. Of the 18, 17 are still on an NBA roster. 3 of them I would consider superstars. An additional 4 I would consider pretty solid players. There are only really 2 true busts. Now would they have developed more and been better on other teams? Perhaps. But we can't possibly know that.
The only kids who have been disserviced are the ones who didn't get drafted and now need to survive on the "degrees" that they "earned."
Superstars
John Wall
Demarcus Cousins
Anthony Davis
Solid Players
Eric Bledsoe
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Terrence Jones
Role Players
Patrick Patterson
Josh Harrellson
DeAndre Liggins
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Darius Miller
Archie Goodwin
Busts
Daniel Orton
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Unknown
Nerlens Noel
Quote from: We R Final Four on March 03, 2014, 01:47:14 PM
Dan Needles at CH 12 in Milwaukee still won't let it go that Buzz stayed in the locker room for 90 min after the S Hall game a few years back and didn't come out and answer questions. Still talks about it. These sports writers get all high and mighty and it seems to always come back to an intentionally missed post game press conference. Get over yourself--your story isn't as important as you think it is.
The only guy in the Wisconsin to ever "stump the schwab" he has a RIGHT to be high and mighty; he earned it! Buzz should have shown some respect!!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 03, 2014, 05:56:21 PM
As much as I hate Coach Cal, you can't really say he's doing a disservice to these kids. He's gotten 18 kids to the association in 4 years. That's more than 4 a year. Of the 18, 17 are still on an NBA roster. 3 of them I would consider superstars. An additional 4 I would consider pretty solid players. There are only really 2 true busts. Now would they have developed more and been better on other teams? Perhaps. But we can't possibly know that.
The only kids who have been disserviced are the ones who didn't get drafted and now need to survive on the "degrees" that they "earned."
Superstars
John Wall
Demarcus Cousins
Anthony Davis
Solid Players
Eric Bledsoe
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Terrence Jones
Role Players
Patrick Patterson
Josh Harrellson
DeAndre Liggins
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Darius Miller
Archie Goodwin
Busts
Daniel Orton
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Unknown
Nerlens Noel
How many of those would still be on teams if not for their guaranteed contracts?
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 03, 2014, 06:14:32 PM
How many of those would still be on teams if not for their guaranteed contracts?
Fair question. I would argue that all of the superstars and solid players would definitely still be there. As far as I know, the only role players who have guaranteed contracts are Marquis Teague and Archie Goodwin (I could be wrong). Teague has been getting playing time since being traded to the Sixers. Goodwin will probably be cut.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 03, 2014, 05:56:21 PM
As much as I hate Coach Cal, you can't really say he's doing a disservice to these kids. He's gotten 18 kids to the association in 4 years. That's more than 4 a year. Of the 18, 17 are still on an NBA roster. 3 of them I would consider superstars. An additional 4 I would consider pretty solid players. There are only really 2 true busts. Now would they have developed more and been better on other teams? Perhaps. But we can't possibly know that.
The only kids who have been disserviced are the ones who didn't get drafted and now need to survive on the "degrees" that they "earned."
Superstars
John Wall
Demarcus Cousins
Anthony Davis
Solid Players
Eric Bledsoe
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Terrence Jones
Role Players
Patrick Patterson
Josh Harrellson
DeAndre Liggins
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Darius Miller
Archie Goodwin
Busts
Daniel Orton
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Unknown
Nerlens Noel
Good post. And, while I realize you are talking about what they have accomplished in the NBA, Kidd-Gilchrist is doing what he has wanted to do his whole life and will probably make more money doing it in his lifetime than anyone that posts on this board will make, so that is hardly being a bust.
And as far as the ones who were dis-serviced - do we even know that they were did-serviced. I would bet that Cal and the NBA scouts told them they weren't ready for the NBA, but went anyway.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 03, 2014, 06:26:33 PM
Fair question. I would argue that all of the superstars and solid players would definitely still be there. As far as I know, the only role players who have guaranteed contracts are Marquis Teague and Archie Goodwin (I could be wrong). Teague has been getting playing time since being traded to the Sixers. Goodwin will probably be cut.
But even if Goodwin found a job that paid him $250,000 a year after graduation (highly unlikely), He still would have made more money from the NBA as a bust than he would have in 20 years of working at a very good salary. Teague, meanwhile will have to struggle by on $3+ mil even if he never re-signs with another team (highly unlucky).
Point being - being a bust sure isn't what it used to be.
Quote from: brandx on March 03, 2014, 06:36:12 PM
But even if Goodwin found a job that paid him $250,000 a year after graduation (highly unlikely), He still would have made more money from the NBA as a bust than he would have in 20 years of working at a very good salary. Teague, meanwhile will have to struggle by on $3+ mil even if he never re-signs with another team (highly unlucky).
Point being - being a bust sure isn't what it used to be.
I agree. Coach Cal is doing the top kids in his program a ton of favors.
How in gods name is Kidd-Gilchrist a bust?
I forget which coach, but someone said that the NCAA should consider switching to the MLB-style way of drafting. A player can choose to go the NBA after high school, going through the D-League for several years before being called up, or he can choose to attend college for a minimum of 3 years and enter the draft then.
I think that would be a fantastic idea. There are only so many high school players that could play in the NBA as an 18-year old. This year, Embiid, Parker and maybe Wiggins would classify into that group. It would force kids to attend college (and probably graduate), and would eliminate this one and done nonsense.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 03, 2014, 06:49:34 PM
How in gods name is Kidd-Gilchrist a bust?
Based on what he has accomplished. 8 points a game through his first 2 years, terrible shooter. As a 2nd round pick, that would be good - for a high lottery pick, not so much.
http://www.youtube.com/v/r6jUpHClybQ?hl=en_US&version=3&start=4
20th anniversary of this incident a few weeks ago.
Quote from: brandx on March 03, 2014, 06:57:12 PM
Based on what he has accomplished. 8 points a game through his first 2 years, terrible shooter. As a 2nd round pick, that would be good - for a high lottery pick, not so much.
Yeah but at 20 years old you cannot be considered a bust starting and averaging 8.5 and 5 so far. He's freaking 4 years younger then Grant Gibbs lol.
Especially when he's listed as the only 1 with Daniel Orton? And there is a huge list of "role guys" making much smaller impacts then he is.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 03, 2014, 06:49:34 PM
How in gods name is Kidd-Gilchrist a bust?
I put him there because he was picked 2nd overall. If he had been outside the top five, I would say he would be just fine.
Im the opposite. I hate the one and done but I dont think you should force kids to stay. Instead let them enter the draft right out of high school. Let them decide if theyre good enough that way they will get to play in the NBA right away like they want to and you also have kids staying for more years in college.
The NBA has legitimate reasons why they don't want to draft out of high school. You really can't do much about it if you are the NCAA without some sort of working arrangement with the NBA.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 03, 2014, 07:20:03 PM
I put him there because he was picked 2nd overall. If he had been outside the top five, I would say he would be just fine.
True. I just don't think at 20 you can consider a guy still starting a bust. Disappointing so far is definitely an accurate assessment though.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on March 03, 2014, 07:51:27 PM
The NBA has legitimate reasons why they don't want to draft out of high school. You really can't do much about it if you are the NCAA without some sort of working arrangement with the NBA.
Because their GMs are morons who would continuously sink their own ships searching for "potential" and the next superstar?
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 03, 2014, 07:58:14 PM
Because their GMs are morons who would continuously sink their own ships searching for "potential" and the next superstar?
I think it is incredibly difficult to scout high school level talent. Why not let them play up a level first and see what they can do?
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on March 03, 2014, 08:36:58 PM
I think it is incredibly difficult to scout high school level talent. Why not let them play up a level first and see what they can do?
It's easy to spot the most talented players - it's the player's understanding of the game and the potential for development that are the hard part.