Wow. As much as it could be and maybe should be Jake, it's Davante. He was the go to guy down the stretch.
What a sh!t game by the refs.
Gardner or Jake..... Toss Up!
Ox ... Jake 2nd
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on February 27, 2014, 10:29:51 PM
Wow. As much as it could be and maybe should be Jake, it's Davante. He was the go to guy down the stretch.
What a sh!t game by the refs.
50 fouls i believe Homer said. yuck
I have to go with Jake
Should really go to both of Jake and Gardner.
But if I have to pick just 1.
Jake. 22 pts 6-9 from 3. Ridiculous.
edit: With the knowledge that Jake was playing hurt, I can say that without a doubt it should go to Jake. Noticed the long sleeve on the shooting shoulder, but didn't know it was an injury. He needs to wear the sleeve every game.
Jake
I was going to start a thread when we were up by 7 saying the Walk-on should be SOTG, but I thought I'd better wait. Good move, it's Ox, it's Ox, it's Ox.
jake. only because he played on both ends of the floor
Quote from: Archies Bat on February 27, 2014, 10:31:26 PM
My thoughts also
One was as equally important as the other after them Derrick Wilson picking up the Charge was huge....
only two choices, and couldn't win without either. Jaxe.
Two right answers. Have to go with Gardner for 10-12 FT, 7 boards, and 3 assists, two which were very pretty.
It's either Jake Gardner. Or Devante Thomas. One of the two...
I think Jamil is not in the running tonight.
The whistle
That f'in D2 guy with 22 points
Jake was great, but down the stretch it was all Davante. DG is SOTG.
Quote from: chapman on February 27, 2014, 10:33:41 PM
Two right answers. Have to go with Gardner for 10-12 FT, 7 boards, and 3 assists, two which were very pretty.
Gardner must have fouled out 2-3 of their Bigs, that changed the game.
Jamil and Todd were neck and neck for "wtf were you doing award"
Buzz, for not going some hybrid of Boheim and Knight
Gardner 26 and 7. Took over the game late making shots, fts and rebounds.
Jamil, not so, 3 points, 1 for 7 from field, 2 turnovers 4 fouls. Biggest disappointment in MU in a long time with that ability.
Both deserving, but I'll give the nod to Davante.
It was all Gardner down the stretch. 10-12 on FT's, 8-10 from the field, 7 rebounds, 3 assists.
If Jake doesn't keep us in the game Ox doesn't get to pull it out at the end. Jake.
Jake
Have to be Jake/Ox two way tie else we don't win
The Big East Sucks with Refing like that. Great Result, but I wouldn't pay to see a game like that. Those refs really SUCKED! Embarrasing for TV! Announcer called it a Whistle Game. Go MU
OX....not only the go to, unstoppable force in the clutch, but beautiful passes to Taylor on a few plays. We don't win down the stretch without him. We don't win without Jake either and he is either a close 2nd or co-sog. And Jake....you get better every game....makes me wonder what your game would have developed into with 4 years in a high major program. You, young man, are legit high d-1 talent and I for one am proud of you....you were Novak-esque tonight!
Jake. No outside threat, no chance to pound it down low
Jake and Ox.
Please
One time do a co stud.
Both earned it
Quote from: MUeng on February 27, 2014, 10:31:46 PM
50 fouls i believe Homer said. yuck
So frustrating to watch a game with that many fouls. Let them play. Man's game.
Jimmy Mac's selection for MVP....Derrick Wilson? Was Buzz blocking his view the entire game?
Jake. Kept us in the game despite being dismal at the line.
Quote from: WarriorCode on February 27, 2014, 10:39:41 PM
So frustrating to watch a game with that many fouls. Let them play. Man's game.
Giving Jake a technical foul after a 3 pointer was a horrible call by the refs... Let em play!
Jake...but with Ox right up there.
Big Sheesh
Without the performance by Jake and Davante, Marquette doesn't even come close. I give it to both.
Have we ever had a SOTG this contested!?!?
Jake thomas
Seriously, Jake shouldn't change clothes for the rest of the season he was in the zone!
Since I can't decide between Jake or Davante - I vote to remove 1 SOTG from Jamil and Todd.
Close call, but Jake.
Davante....obviously Jake co-stud if awarded....but....during money time...it was all DG..put team and G'Town on his back and took us to winners circle..
Quote from: Ners on February 27, 2014, 10:58:02 PM
Davante....obviously Jake co-stud if awarded....but....during money time...it was all DG..put team and G'Town on his back and took us to winners circle..
can't really argue. except chicken or the egg?
Jake and Gardner is the High-Low combination we've needed all season. Jake played with so much confidence and with so much intensity. He really looks like a different player than he was in the beginning of the season. Kid's tough as nails.
I'm pulling for Jake on this one. Gardner a very close second.
No co-studs. One or the other. Tough call but I'll go with DG.
Ox. Leading scorer, rebounder, 1 shy of assist lead. Also fouled out the big men early. Jake was great, we don't win without him either, but it's gotta be the ox.
Jake played hurt so it should be him.... http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42266.0
Tough call, DG at the end was the difference, can't ignore Thomas, but DG by a nose
it appears, based on the site's tagline, the mods have spoken
Quote from: murobrob on February 27, 2014, 10:38:45 PM
OX....not only the go to, unstoppable force in the clutch, but beautiful passes to Taylor on a few plays. We don't win down the stretch without him. We don't win without Jake either and he is either a close 2nd or co-sog. And Jake....you get better every game....makes me wonder what your game would have developed into with 4 years in a high major program. You, young man, are legit high d-1 talent and I for one am proud of you....you were Novak-esque tonight!
If had shot like this against Vilanova and Ohio State we would be in the NCAA tournament.
Jake was awesome, but it's got to be Savante
Jake, but can't argue with co-sotg on this one
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 27, 2014, 11:46:14 PM
Jake was awesome, but it's got to be Savante
Or Avante, Buzz says he calls him that to get him upset.
I vote for Gardner, because he only had one foul in a game where everything was being called.
Quote from: bilsu on February 27, 2014, 11:57:37 PM
I vote for Gardner, because he only had one foul in a game where everything was being called.
to be fair.. he played as little on the D end as Buzz could get him.
SHMOOOOOOVE!
I vote Davante because Jake killed us with that technical! How dare he say something positive to one of his coaches on the bench after sticking a three. Talk about arrogant! He was just lucky there was an equally deserved T called on G-Town shortly thereafter.
...In all seriousness though, I honestly can't decide. DG/JT Co-SOTG.
It's a toss up but I will throw my lot in for Jake. Davante closed it out for us, but Davante would have never had all that room to manuever if the defense wasn't busy keeping an eye on Jake the Snake
JAKE AND DAVANTE.
TIE. PUT IT UP ALREADY.
There isn't a wrong choice between Jake and Davante. Agree that since Jake was doing it while recovering from a partial shoulder dislocation, give it to Jake. A T for nodding at a coach? Really?
Jake
Jake
Davante was the player of the game and it's no question as far as I'm concerned. Jake had a nice game but Gardner was a force
It's got to be Davante. He fouled out their whole front line, for goodness sake! Great game for Thomas, of course, but 26 points on 10 FGA and 7 rebounds and 3 assists in 23 minutes gets my vote.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 28, 2014, 07:24:04 AM
It's got to be Davante. He fouled out there whole front line, for goodness sake! Great game for Thomas, of course, but 26 points on 10 FGA and 7 rebounds and 3 assists in 23 minutes gets my vote.
This is true.
If my tie nomination isn't listened too.
It has to be OX. He went to WORK!! And without him our already putrid FT shooting would have been 59%
Ox
Got to give it to Jake for overcoming the abuse on this board.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 28, 2014, 07:06:46 AM
Davante was the player of the game and it's no question as far as I'm concerned. Jake had a nice game but Gardner was a force
Exactly this
Gardner
DA-VA-NTE
Co-Studs if allowed Jake and OX......if not gotta give it to Jake since DG cant go all low-post beastin' without Jake's shootin'
Gardner had the better all around game. Vote goes to him. You have to look not just at the point totals but how he impacted things. When he got going early that forced GT to collapse on him everytime he touched the ball, leading to their key bigs getting in foul trouble and changing the course of the game. GT's focus on Gardner down low was also a big reason why Jake had more open space on the perimeter. So you could say Gardner was responsible for that too.
To make my final case for Gardner:
ORTG: Gardner 158, Jake 144
Possessions used: Gardner 36%, Jake 18%
Gardner was more efficient on double the possessions. Gotta give it to the Ox.
Jake Thomas may have had his best game of his college career, but Gardner's game was more important.
26 points, key passes for baskets (not basic assists), good free throw shooting, 7 rebounds and three fouled out Georgetown forwards.
SOTG - DAVANTE GARDNER
Quote from: The Love House on February 28, 2014, 09:22:48 AM
Gardner had the better all around game. Vote goes to him. You have to look not just at the point totals but how he impacted things. When he got going early that forced GT to collapse on him everytime he touched the ball, leading to their key bigs getting in foul trouble and changing the course of the game. GT's focus on Gardner down low was also a big reason why Jake had more open space on the perimeter. So you could say Gardner was responsible for that too.
I don't really care who gets it. But I could easily refute this... when you say you have to look at not just point totals, how about the fact that Jake played on both ends of the court? Yes, davante played some D, but Buzz tried to offense/defense sub him when he could. Also, majority of Jake's shots came before Gardner started getting his. So, in theory, it was Jake's shooting that opened up the middle for Gardner.
Yes, I am debating because i'm bored.
Jake. He dominated early. Gardner was a beast, but at least part of that was help from the refs.
It is Davante Gardner.
It continues to amaze me that is taken for granted by this board. This guy is the ONLY consistent clutch player on the team. If you watch enough games it is obvious that his team mates know this, because when the game is on the line, he the one to whom they all look.
And, despite the almost constant harping about his defense, Otule is statistically only marginally better. Davante leads the team is rebounds, and has a knack of getting key rebounds, as in the last one to secure the win.
Goodness, give the man his due.
Jake,
DG was awesome the last 10
Jake the first 30
Mods, you have the SOTG picture already up. Just change the stats and we're good..!!!! Two up, two down!!!!!!
Davante
Quote from: UticaBusBarn on February 28, 2014, 03:58:32 PM
It is Davante Gardner.
It continues to amaze me that is taken for granted by this board. This guy is the ONLY consistent clutch player on the team. If you watch enough games it is obvious that his team mates know this, because when the game is on the line, he the one to whom they all look.
And, despite the almost constant harping about his defense, Otule is statistically only marginally better. Davante leads the team is rebounds, and has a knack of getting key rebounds, as in the last one to secure the win.
Goodness, give the man his due.
well, except for the games Mayo has basically won/kept us in...
Quote from: UticaBusBarn on February 28, 2014, 03:58:32 PM
It is Davante Gardner.
It continues to amaze me that is taken for granted by this board. This guy is the ONLY consistent clutch player on the team. If you watch enough games it is obvious that his team mates know this, because when the game is on the line, he the one to whom they all look.
And, despite the almost constant harping about his defense, Otule is statistically only marginally better. Davante leads the team is rebounds, and has a knack of getting key rebounds, as in the last one to secure the win.
Goodness, give the man his due.
Can somebody point me to where the data showing
this is located?
Ask mattyv.
I'll repeat this from another post, as I keep seeing it brought up in multiple threads.
The ppp vs. Otule on post ups is .575, in the 90th percentile of all college players. For Ox, it's a respectable .784, in the 60th percentile. Not to mention that Otule has been posted up 3 more times than Gardner. Chris struggles closing out shooters, but he is elite when it comes to the low post.
Assigning defensive win shares is speculative and made even more so when a player is routinely subbed out for defensive possessions. But as it pertains to these two, Otule is more than marginally better.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on February 28, 2014, 02:30:25 PM
Jake. He dominated early. Gardner was a beast, but at least part of that was help from the refs.
While I have said that if we don't go the tie route I would give me vote to Ox. I certainly couldn't argue if Jake did end up winning it.
That said, you can't say part of it was help from the refs.
They were calling fouls all game on everyone so it wasn't just special treatment. He played to the way the game was being called. That deserves props right there. If the refs are calling fouls keep powering in down low. Also, no matter how a game is called...Davante usually gets to the line regardless.
Quote from: pux90mex on February 28, 2014, 09:10:48 PM
I'll repeat this from another post, as I keep seeing it brought up in multiple threads.
The ppp vs. Otule on post ups is .575, in the 90th percentile of all college players. For Ox, it's a respectable .784, in the 60th percentile. Not to mention that Otule has been posted up 3 more times than Gardner. Chris struggles closing out shooters, but he is elite when it comes to the low post.
Assigning defensive win shares is speculative and made even more so when a player is routinely subbed out for defensive possessions. But as it pertains to these two, Otule is more than marginally better.
Win shares potentially, but when you look at defensive ratings that factor in how many points opponents have scored over 100 possessions it isn't a factor for offensive/defensive substitutions or pace of play. For the season Chris Otule has a defensive rating of 102.7 points given up per 100 defensive possessions he's on the floor. Davante Gardner has a defensive rating of 103.6 points given up per 100 defensive possessions he's on the floor. Neither is elite but neither is a defensive liability based on those numbers. A major discrepancy would be comparing Juan Anderson (our highest rated defender) to Jake Thomas (our lowest rated defender). Considering Gardner and Otule have each played against every opponent this season, how can you account for other team's averaging less than a single point differential over 100 possessions (much more than a single game's worth I'd add) if one was a vastly different defender than the other?
It is a balancing act, but not a defensive one is what I'd argue considering Gardner's offensive efficiency rating is light years better than any other player we have including Otule.
Gardner
I really wanted to vote for Jake until I went back and looked at the box score. Davante was 8-10 FG and 10-12 FT. AND he generated 16 or 17 fouls on their big men. So, it's Davante, with a huge thanks to Jake for making it possible.
C'mon Mods. Give either Davante or Jake their time in the sun. Another SOTG will have to be chosen tomorrow afternoon.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on March 01, 2014, 07:53:39 AM
C'mon Mods. Give either Davante or Jake their time in the sun. Another SOTG will have to be chosen tomorrow afternoon.
Yeah, sorry, was too busy enjoying the snow here in CO. I was originally going to give it to Jake, but you've all convinced me that Gardner should get it.