Just digging through the wiki and came across the Coaching Carousel item, figured it might be interesting to look back at the high majors.
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford) - 119–80 (.598), One CBI, one NIT (Champs).
Darrin Horn (South Carolina - Fired 2012) - 60–63 (.488), One NIT
Keno Davis (Providence - Fired 2011, Central Michigan) - 93-88 (.513), One NIT
Craig Robinson (Oregon State) - 91–100 (.476), Three CBI (One time champion)
Travis Ford (Oklahoma State) - 122-75 (.652), Three NCAA, one NIT, fell to possible bubble position this year, and some jackals putting him on the hot seat.
Trent Johnson (LSU - 2012, TCU) - 87-94 (.480), One NCAA, one NIT
Mike Montgomery (Cal) - 127–67 (.655), Four NCAA, one NIT
Buzz Williams (Marquette) - 139–64 (.685), Five NCAA (two Sweet 16, one Elite 8)
Tom Crean (Ugh) - 99–93 (.516), Two NCAA (both Sweet 16)
Just thought it interesting to put together.
Quote from: T-Bone on February 25, 2014, 12:20:59 PM
Just digging through the wiki and came across the Coaching Carousel item, figured it might be interesting to look back at the high majors.
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford) - 119–80 (.598), One CBI, one NIT (Champs).
Darrin Horn (South Carolina - Fired 2012) - 60–63 (.488), One NIT
Keno Davis (Providence - Fired 2011, Central Michigan) - 93-88 (.513), One NIT
Craig Robinson (Oregon State) - 91–100 (.476), Three CBI (One time champion)
Travis Ford (Oklahoma State) - 122-75 (.652), Three NCAA, one NIT, fell to possible bubble position this year, and some jackals putting him on the hot seat.
Trent Johnson (LSU - 2012, TCU) - 87-94 (.480), One NCAA, one NIT
Mike Montgomery (Cal) - 127–67 (.655), Four NCAA, one NIT
Buzz Williams (Marquette) - 139–64 (.685), Five NCAA (two Sweet 16, one Elite 8)
Tom Crean (Ugh) - 99–93 (.516), Two NCAA (both Sweet 16)
Just thought it interesting to put together.
Quite interesting. Are the records through the end of last year, or through some point this year?
Quote from: LittleMurs on February 25, 2014, 12:32:20 PM
Quite interesting. Are the records through the end of last year, or through some point this year?
Current(-ish) per wikipedia (I know it might not be up to date, but near current at least). And added numbers from ESPN where wikipedia didn't have them.
A timely reminder of "be careful what you wish for."
Scoop on Darin Horn...funny stuff:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8709.0
<whew>
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 25, 2014, 12:50:17 PM
Scoop on Darin Horn...funny stuff:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8709.0
<whew>
Wow. Lotta people just wanna win the press conference. Glad Cottinham had the intestinal fortitude to spot a winner when it's right under his nose even though he knew it wouldn't be popular.
cooby's oil depot. forgot about that cat.
and the first incarnation of PRN before he went on his mormon mission.
I really liked Keno Davis...
Quote from: T-Bone on February 25, 2014, 12:20:59 PM
Just digging through the wiki and came across the Coaching Carousel item, figured it might be interesting to look back at the high majors.
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford) - 119–80 (.598), One CBI, one NIT (Champs).
Darrin Horn (South Carolina - Fired 2012) - 60–63 (.488), One NIT
Keno Davis (Providence - Fired 2011, Central Michigan) - 93-88 (.513), One NIT
Craig Robinson (Oregon State) - 91–100 (.476), Three CBI (One time champion)
Travis Ford (Oklahoma State) - 122-75 (.652), Three NCAA, one NIT, fell to possible bubble position this year, and some jackals putting him on the hot seat.
Trent Johnson (LSU - 2012, TCU) - 87-94 (.480), One NCAA, one NIT
Mike Montgomery (Cal) - 127–67 (.655), Four NCAA, one NIT
Buzz Williams (Marquette) - 139–64 (.685), Five NCAA (two Sweet 16, one Elite 8)
Tom Crean (Ugh) - 99–93 (.516), Two NCAA (both Sweet 16)
Just thought it interesting to put together.
Craig Robinson, under .500. Wonder how he is hanging on to that job?
Quote from: willie warrior on February 25, 2014, 02:25:21 PM
Craig Robinson, under .500. Wonder how he is hanging on to that job?
The CBI Championship baby
Quote from: willie warrior on February 25, 2014, 02:25:21 PM
Craig Robinson, under .500. Wonder how he is hanging on to that job?
No one wants to be dead if they fire him...or get a IRS audit
Quote from: willie warrior on February 25, 2014, 02:25:21 PM
Craig Robinson, under .500. Wonder how he is hanging on to that job?
Good reads:
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2014/01/canzano_time_for_craig_robinso.html
http://seattletimes.com/html/budwithers/2022939053_withers19xml.html
Favorite note: the Oregon State band used to play Fat Bottomed Girls.
Haha ths is good. reminds me of a thread from back in April of 2008. Posted by the dearly departed Mr. haywrd. Notice his omniscient post was made hours before Cream spoke to the IU press conference. Mr. Hayward knew this classic wet hairy cat for the wet hairy cat that he was. and If I do say so myself everything else Mr. hayward said was dead right on too.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8021.0
I didn't post in that thread, but I'll man up and admit that I would have been happier with Horn being hired over Buzz. Good thing they don't consult fans when hiring coaches!
What about Chris Lowery? The choice of many MU faithful at the time.
I believe Anthony Grant was also a big name available around that time.
It looks like MU won the 2008 Coaching Carousel.
Here is aanother tidbit by MR. HAyward, i would like to see all the "process" people and 5 year review people now admit they were fools.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8391.0
absolute free fall In Indiana. Gotta wonder how the next 4 games for Tommy Naismith shape the off season and future for the guy posing as a basketball coach. FYI, Iu shot 3 free throws for the game...!!! If that does not indicate the cluelessness of your coach im not sure what does.
Piece from Tommy's post game last night, simply geting ripped from hoosier fans
Q: On our second half struggles...You guys have led a lot of games on the road at halftime. What's been the trend in the second half?
TOMMY NAISMITH: It's a 40 minute game and there are some other teams around the country that lose some leads to...unfortunately we lost a couple of those, but the other teams were pretty good. That's one of the reasons when you're at home and have the guys that can shoot the ball that way it becomes an issue. I think I just covered what happens with the defense and sometimes that's what happens to us on the road.
Those really good teams are Nebraska, PU, Minny and PSU that we blew leads against! Also tries to rationalize it by saying other teams lose leads.
Quote from: River rat on February 26, 2014, 10:54:24 AM
absolute free fall In Indiana. Gotta wonder how the next 4 games for Tommy Naismith shape the off season and future for the guy posing as a basketball coach. FYI, Iu shot 3 free throws for the game...!!! If that does not indicate the cluelessness of your coach im not sure what does.
Piece from Tommy's post game last night, simply geting ripped from hoosier fans
Q: On our second half struggles...You guys have led a lot of games on the road at halftime. What's been the trend in the second half?
TOMMY NAISMITH: It's a 40 minute game and there are some other teams around the country that lose some leads to...unfortunately we lost a couple of those, but the other teams were pretty good. That's one of the reasons when you're at home and have the guys that can shoot the ball that way it becomes an issue. I think I just covered what happens with the defense and sometimes that's what happens to us on the road.
Those really good teams are Nebraska, PU, Minny and PSU that we blew leads against! Also tries to rationalize it by saying other teams lose leads.
Some good points. But the Tanned One has a gold lined K with Indiana, so if they can him he will have plenty of walking around cash to take a gig at ESPN and hang out with the Harbaughs.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 25, 2014, 02:25:21 PM
Craig Robinson, under .500. Wonder how he is hanging on to that job?
You think the fact that he is Michelle Obama's brother and Barack Obama's good friend (so good a friend that they played at Maryland so Obama could attend) has something to do with it?
2009 would be an intersting year to watch
New coaches included
Sean Miller at Arizona
Tony Bennett at Virgina
Shaka Smart at VCU
Calapari at UK
Mack at Xavier
Pastner at Memphis
Quote from: Heisenberg on February 26, 2014, 11:33:13 AM
You think the fact that he is Michelle Obama's brother and Barack Obama's good friend (so good a friend that they played at Maryland so Obama could attend) has something to do with it?
Eh...it's hard to say. He inherited a 6-25 team and a terrible program so they are giving him a longer leash. And he did win 21 games a couple years ago. I mean, it isn't an exaggeration to say that he is their best coach in over 20 years.
My mind blows up thinking what could have happened if Tony Bennett had been hired. Would Marquette and Wisconsin have become spitting images of each other? Always going after the same recruits? Regularly playing games with the final scores in the 30's?
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 26, 2014, 12:42:05 PM
Eh...it's hard to say. He inherited a 6-25 team and a terrible program so they are giving him a longer leash. And he did win 21 games a couple years ago. I mean, it isn't an exaggeration to say that he is their best coach in over 20 years.
yeah right--there is a real lack of evidence out there that friends and family of El Presidente receive any special treatment.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 26, 2014, 01:39:02 PM
yeah right--there is a real lack of evidence out there that friends and family of El Presidente receive any special treatment.
Present the evidence that Oregon State is only retaining their best coach in 20 years, one who won 20 games just two years ago, because he's the President's brother-in-law and I will consider it.
Otherwise I am not sure what Oregon State is getting (outside of some sort of PR benefit) from retaining him simply because he is President's brother-in-law.
Are they getting additional federal funding they don't otherwise deserve?
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 26, 2014, 01:53:39 PM
Present the evidence that Oregon State is only retaining their best coach in 20 years, one who won 20 games just two years ago, because he's the President's brother-in-law and I will consider it.
Otherwise I am not sure what Oregon State is getting (outside of some sort of PR benefit) from retaining him simply because he is President's brother-in-law.
Are they getting additional federal funding they don't otherwise deserve?
Do you honestly think you are going to get the answer you are looking for from ww? We all know there is zero evidence to support his insinuation.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 26, 2014, 01:39:02 PM
yeah right--there is a real lack of evidence out there that friends and family of El Presidente receive any special treatment.
there's benefits to being friends/family with the POTUS? SHOCKING...almost as good as a law degree from pat robertson's regent university in the bush days. or the pardon lists from clinton, reagan and carter.
that said...i wouldn't fire robinson...i would agree he's the best they've had in 20 years.
Quote from: River rat on February 26, 2014, 10:54:24 AM
absolute free fall In Indiana. Gotta wonder how the next 4 games for Tommy Naismith shape the off season and future for the guy posing as a basketball coach. FYI, Iu shot 3 free throws for the game...!!! If that does not indicate the cluelessness of your coach im not sure what does.
Piece from Tommy's post game last night, simply geting ripped from hoosier fans
Q: On our second half struggles...You guys have led a lot of games on the road at halftime. What's been the trend in the second half?
TOMMY NAISMITH: It's a 40 minute game and there are some other teams around the country that lose some leads to...unfortunately we lost a couple of those, but the other teams were pretty good. That's one of the reasons when you're at home and have the guys that can shoot the ball that way it becomes an issue. I think I just covered what happens with the defense and sometimes that's what happens to us on the road.
Those really good teams are Nebraska, PU, Minny and PSU that we blew leads against! Also tries to rationalize it by saying other teams lose leads.
Since you are so solid on facts...LOL....Nebraska is going to the NCAA tournament and is 13-1 at home. IU beat PSU on the road. Minnesota is 14-3 at home and Purdue is 13-3 at home.
I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years. Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game. But hey...you're the coaching expert.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 26, 2014, 02:19:07 PM
Since you are so solid on facts...LOL....Nebraska is going to the NCAA tournament and is 13-1 at home. IU beat PSU on the road. Minnesota is 14-3 at home and Purdue is 13-3 at home.
I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years. Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game. But hey...you're the coaching expert.
why does one have to point out the faults of buzz whenever ripping on TC for being a crap coach/person?
Quote from: MUSF on February 26, 2014, 02:06:15 PM
Do you honestly think you are going to get the answer you are looking for from ww?
Of course not. The next one will be the first one.
Quote from: avid1010 on February 26, 2014, 02:37:49 PM
why does one have to point out the faults of buzz whenever ripping on TC for being a crap coach/person?
I thought this thread was about 2008 coaching carousel which included Buzz and TC.....maybe I'm wrong.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 26, 2014, 02:19:07 PM
Since you are so solid on facts...LOL....Nebraska is going to the NCAA tournament and is 13-1 at home. IU beat PSU on the road. Minnesota is 14-3 at home and Purdue is 13-3 at home.
I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years. Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game. But hey...you're the coaching expert.
Maybe it's because Gardner can't guard the other team's center at the three point line?
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 26, 2014, 12:42:05 PM
Eh...it's hard to say. He inherited a 6-25 team and a terrible program so they are giving him a longer leash. And he did win 21 games a couple years ago. I mean, it isn't an exaggeration to say that he is their best coach in over 20 years.
+1
When you are a distant third for "the best OSU in the country," the leash will be (and should be) a long one.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 26, 2014, 02:19:07 PM
I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years. Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game. But hey...you're the coaching expert.
Okay, I get what you are trying to say but there are a few problems with your comparisons.
1. UW has difficulty getting to the line at times because the offense Bo runs doesn't rely heavily on dribble penetration or one on one post-ups. That offense has served them very well over Bo's tenure so I don't think anyone really thinks they have a significant problem offensively. IU on the other hand does rely on dribble penetration and has a guy named Yogi Ferrell that can take almost any defender off the dribble. They should be getting to the line. That one game may be an anomaly, but if it is a consistent problem then IU has some issues.
2. You can't compare a single player's shot attempts in a game to an entire team's free throw attempts in a game. You're comparing apples and hammers.
I don't see myself as a regular Crean or Chicos basher, but I think you're grasping at straws here.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 26, 2014, 02:19:07 PM
Since you are so solid on facts...LOL....Nebraska is going to the NCAA tournament and is 13-1 at home. IU beat PSU on the road. Minnesota is 14-3 at home and Purdue is 13-3 at home.
I don't disagree with you about the free throws, you have to get to the line more but that has been a story with Bo Ryan teams in Madison for many years. Since you're scratching your head on that, does it not also boggle your mind that when we play Creighton and their weakness is on the interior that Davante gets 2 shot attempts one game and 3 shot attempts the second game. But hey...you're the coaching expert.
(http://www.boloji.com/poemphotos/(You'll%20Be%20My)%20Knight%20In%20Shining%20Armor1.jpg)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 26, 2014, 02:47:02 PM
I thought this thread was about 2008 coaching carousel which included Buzz and TC.....maybe I'm wrong.
Yes, because this is of course, the only thread in which you've done that.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 26, 2014, 03:55:57 PM
(http://www.boloji.com/poemphotos/(You'll%20Be%20My)%20Knight%20In%20Shining%20Armor1.jpg)
Haha I know Chicos worked in the A.D. while Crean was there (because he has told us all ad nauseum). With Crean's reputation as an abusive employer, I'm beginning to think Chicos is suffering from some bizarre form of Stockholm syndrome re: Crean. Really very strange.
Quote from: tower912 on February 25, 2014, 09:39:42 PM
It looks like MU won the 2008 Coaching Carousel.
Ohio had a pretty awesome hire with John Groce. Obviously not the same situation though.
John Groce
85-56 with Ohio (Round of 32 and Sweet 16 Appearance)
23-13 with Illinois (Round of 32 appearance)
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 26, 2014, 01:53:39 PM
Present the evidence that Oregon State is only retaining their best coach in 20 years, one who won 20 games just two years ago, because he's the President's brother-in-law and I will consider it.
Otherwise I am not sure what Oregon State is getting (outside of some sort of PR benefit) from retaining him simply because he is President's brother-in-law.
Are they getting additional federal funding they don't otherwise deserve?
Best defense I have seen yet of El Presidente. The fact that the guy's career record is less than .500 should suggest something. Many times those guys are gone in 4 years. If we were under .500 after 6 years with Buzz, would he still be HC? Doubt it. You probably don't.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 26, 2014, 04:01:47 PM
Yes, because this is of course, the only thread in which you've done that.
It sure isn't. So, don't you find it odd that Davante got 2 FG attempts against Creighton and 3 FG attempts against Creighton the second time? Is that coaching? Is that guard play not feeding the post? Is that DG not making himself available? Clearly, if it was any other of these coaches on this list it was coaching, but in our case what was it?
Quote from: Jajuannaman on February 26, 2014, 04:05:49 PM
Haha I know Chicos worked in the A.D. while Crean was there (because he has told us all ad nauseum). With Crean's reputation as an abusive employer, I'm beginning to think Chicos is suffering from some bizarre form of Stockholm syndrome re: Crean. Really very strange.
He absolutely defends the bizarre notion that someone can be a bully and an abuser to one's subordinates at work but still be a sweetheart away from the office in "real life". Right out of the TC play book.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 26, 2014, 05:13:33 PM
Best defense I have seen yet of El Presidente. The fact that the guy's career record is less than .500 should suggest something. Many times those guys are gone in 4 years. If we were under .500 after 6 years with Buzz, would he still be HC? Doubt it. You probably don't.
Of course Marquette's starting point was much higher than Oregon State's...but don't let that fact get in the way of making your political point.
Who won the 1999 carousel, if you snap the chalk when Crean left? Anyone have a list of other programs who hired new coaches that year?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 26, 2014, 02:48:31 PM
Maybe it's because Gardner can't guard the other team's center at the three point line?
Could be, but offensively I expected that DG would get more than 2 or 3 FG attempts when we were the ones with the ball.
Maybe we will figure it out the third time. I felt like I was watching TC utilize Noel Vonleh in the two games DG played against Creighton. It was a head scratcher to be polite.
Marquette won the 1999 search and the 2008 search.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 26, 2014, 07:01:27 PM
Of course Marquette's starting point was much higher than Oregon State's...but don't let that fact get in the way of making your political point.
Always the smartie--it is your fact--no political point intended--unless you were trying to make one.
And answer the question: Would Buzz still be employed by MU if he had less than .500 win %. Already know the answer--for you it would be yes. And why: Because he has compassion and cares. And you worship the hallowed ground he walks on. Don't bother with an answer, but I cannot wait to hear your snarky comments.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 27, 2014, 10:00:50 AM
Always the smartie--it is your fact--no political point intended--unless you were trying to make one.
And answer the question: Would Buzz still be employed by MU if he had less than .500 win %. Already know the answer--for you it would be yes. And why: Because he has compassion and cares. And you worship the hallowed ground he walks on. Don't bother with an answer, but I cannot wait to hear your snarky comments.
And you are the one that brought up "El Presidente." So yeah...you were making a political comment.
Quote from: MUSF on February 26, 2014, 03:52:25 PM
Okay, I get what you are trying to say but there are a few problems with your comparisons.
1. UW has difficulty getting to the line at times because the offense Bo runs doesn't rely heavily on dribble penetration or one on one post-ups. That offense has served them very well over Bo's tenure so I don't think anyone really thinks they have a significant problem offensively. IU on the other hand does rely on dribble penetration and has a guy named Yogi Ferrell that can take almost any defender off the dribble. They should be getting to the line. That one game may be an anomaly, but if it is a consistent problem then IU has some issues.
2. You can't compare a single player's shot attempts in a game to an entire team's free throw attempts in a game. You're comparing apples and hammers.
I don't see myself as a regular Crean or Chicos basher, but I think you're grasping at straws here.
It's still about strategy, is it not? Getting to the free throw line is a strategy. Attack the basket, get fouled, force the action, get rewarded. Its a strategy that has been successful for MU and other teams over the years. It is a coaching philosophy and strategy IMO. So, too, is attacking a team with a weak inside defensive scheme with your best player....who for reasons known only to a few, got 2 FG attempts in one game and 3 in another.
So I don't see it as apples to hammers at all. One coach is questioned for his strategy because his team only got 3 FT attempts, the implication by the poster that they didn't attack enough to earn more trips to the free throw line. I totally agree, by the way with that conclusion. My question is why another coach on that same list shouldn't also be questions around a strategy that also has put his team in a lessor position to win, twice...by not having your most potent offensive weapon basically do nothing in two games?
I thought it a fair question, feel free to disagree. Quite frankly, I don't know why it hasn't been spoken about much more? Or not fouling when up 3 points at the end of the game? I'm of the opinion that both coaches that we're talking about have had much better coaching years than the current year. Neither has impressed in my opinion.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 27, 2014, 12:23:49 PM
It's still about strategy, is it not? Getting to the free throw line is a strategy. Attack the basket, get fouled, force the action, get rewarded. Its a strategy that has been successful for MU and other teams over the years. It is a coaching philosophy and strategy IMO. So, too, is attacking a team with a weak inside defensive scheme with your best player....who for reasons known only to a few, got 2 FG attempts in one game and 3 in another.
So I don't see it as apples to hammers at all. One coach is questioned for his strategy because his team only got 3 FT attempts, the implication by the poster that they didn't attack enough to earn more trips to the free throw line. I totally agree, by the way with that conclusion. My question is why another coach on that same list shouldn't also be questions around a strategy that also has put his team in a lessor position to win, twice...by not having your most potent offensive weapon basically do nothing in two games?
I thought it a fair question, feel free to disagree. Quite frankly, I don't know why it hasn't been spoken about much more? Or not fouling when up 3 points at the end of the game? I'm of the opinion that both coaches that we're talking about have had much better coaching years than the current year. Neither has impressed in my opinion.
If a team fails to get to the line it's either about the coach's game plan or terrible officiating. If a single player doesn't get shot attempts it could be many different things. I just don't think you are comparing like items when you try to connect the two. Either way, it hasn't been spoken about much because it isn't a trend. DG continues to be a focal point of the offense, and he continues to produce.
I agree with you on the fouling when up 3, but there are definitely two distinct philosophies on that. A coach's philosophy on such a specific scenario is not an indicator of his overall ability. I also agree that both IU and MU have been disappointing this season and both coaches are at least partly responsible. That said, I think it's time to start acknowledge that Crean's entire body of work at IU is starting to look mediocre at best. I don't think the same can be said about Buzz at this point. A few more seasons like this one may change that.
Your attempts to draw comparisons between Crean and Buzz's performance is not effective, IMO. Pointing out Buzz's possible shortcomings doesn't prove anything about Crean's and it also makes you look overly critical / anti-Buzz. I guess I don't see the point.