No this isn't about transfers or Derrick vs. Dawson.
Let me just say I love the potential of all three freshmen and the future is extremely bright.
I wanted to get opinions on why it is that Deonte (329 min.) has played so many more minutes than Dawson (197 min.) or Johnson (280 min, also injured). IMO Deonte makes significantly more "freshmen" mistakes than do Dawson or Johnson. Everyone claims that Buzz plays the best defenders, but Deonte's defense is definitely a work in progress. Offensively, he often makes poor decisions, both with shot selection and turnovers. He also plays those minutes at a position that the team is very deep (3's and 4's) at. While PG and SG aren't nearly as deep, the other two freshmen don't see the minutes that Burton does. I am by no means complaining about Burton's playing time, I just find the allocation of minutes strange. Of all the freshmen, the most polished seems to be Dawson on the offensive end (though his defense is poor), I also like Johnson's disruptiveness on defense, mostly caused by his length and athleticism (he doesn't play good "team defense," IMO).
If I had to rank their abilities among each other:
Burton=offense 2nd defense 2nd
Dawson=offense 1st defense 3rd
Johnson=offense 3rd defense 1st
Just curious what others think.
Deonte has a college ready body, and is Marquette's best interior scorer next to Davante.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 24, 2014, 09:41:17 PM
Deonte has a college ready body, and is Marquette's best interior scorer next to Davante.
True, but Dawson has a good frame too, especially for a point guard. As far as interior scorer, I agree, but much like Oxtule, I don't like Deonte and Davante being on the court at the same time either. Not enough space for the two of them in the paint at the same time.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 24, 2014, 09:47:43 PM
True, but Dawson has a good frame too, especially for a point guard. As far as interior scorer, I agree, but much like Oxtule, I don't like Deonte and Davante being on the court at the same time either. Not enough space for the two of them in the paint at the same time.
Yep. Deonte is better on the floor with Otule. It also helps to cover some of Deonte's defensive mistakes.
Deonte is going to be an absolute STUD...and I feel will be the best player yet we've had under Buzz. Give him 2-3 more years with Todd Smith in strength and conditioning work...wow. He has Barkley type of athleticism and body. Can get a shot off (obviously) anytime he wants. Already Pomroy analytics cite him as Go To go...which of course is due to the volume of shooting. But, Kevin O'Neill said it best...Burton is one of those guys that can go get you 20 and 10 just walking in the gym...yes..hyperbole at this point...but wouldn't surprise me to see Burton be a 18 and 10 guy as a junior.
As for how I'd rate:
Burton - 1st offense, 2nd defensively..has great nose for the ball, disruptive..but gets beat off bounce too easy.
JJJ - 3rd offensively (at this point, not perhaps as his career unfolds - just needs more strength), 1st defensively.
Dawson - 2nd offensively, 3rd defensively. Think he will become a very good defender in his career. Has a very good body for PG....and a good stroke from distance and FT line.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 24, 2014, 09:30:13 PM
Burton=offense 2nd defense 2nd
Dawson=offense 1st defense 3rd
Johnson=offense 3rd defense 1st
I don't believe Dawson is as advanced offensively as Burton. Burton can create his own shot regularly and has a higher FG%. Dawson showed a nifty move against DePaul with the floater but most of his points have come from open three point shots (21 of 38). Burton is also plays better defense. Burton's problem is sometimes he forces things but only has a slightly higher TO rate. They should be fairly comparable as they average the same minutes per game (10 v 12).
Johnson, though he has better stats than Dawson, needs to add some bulk for that position which is why I think he isn't quite as ready offensively. Defensively, I think he is the better of the three.
To me Burton is the most ready of the three and I would rate them:
Burton=offense 1st defense 2nd
Dawson=offense 2nd defense 3rd
Johnson=offense 3rd defense 1st
Overall, I would say the minutes per game is fair relative to each other (Johnson 14.1, Burton 12.2, Dawson 10.4). If Duane Wilson was healthy, I don't think Dawson would see nearly as many minutes. There is more of a logjam at the 2,3,4 which is why Burton and Johnson don't see significantly more time. Johnson is a 2-3 and competes with Mayo/Thomas/Wilson/Anderson while Burton competes with Taylor/Anderson/Wilson.
I think we are starting to see a decrease in both Johnson and Burton's time while Dawson will be consistent as there isn't as many options.
Quote from: Ners on February 24, 2014, 10:07:29 PM
Deonte is going to be an absolute STUD...and I feel will be the best player yet we've had under Buzz. Give him 2-3 more years with Todd Smith in strength and conditioning work...wow. He has Barkley type of athleticism and body. Can get a shot off (obviously) anytime he wants. Already Pomroy analytics cite him as Go To go...which of course is due to the volume of shooting. But, Kevin O'Neill said it best...Burton is one of those guys that can go get you 20 and 10 just walking in the gym...yes..hyperbole at this point...but wouldn't surprise me to see Burton be a 18 and 10 guy as a junior.
As for how I'd rate:
Burton - 1st offense, 2nd defensively..has great nose for the ball, disruptive..but gets beat off bounce too easy.
JJJ - 3rd offensively (at this point, not perhaps as his career unfolds - just needs more strength), 1st defensively.
Dawson - 2nd offensively, 3rd defensively. Think he will become a very good defender in his career. Has a very good body for PG....and a good stroke from distance and FT line.
wow, we agreed on something
Quote from: BallBoy on February 24, 2014, 10:25:01 PM
wow, we agreed on something
LOL...was just going to post the same thing...well done. :D
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 24, 2014, 09:30:13 PM
Let me just say I love the potential of all three four freshmen and the future is extremely bright.
corrected. I think Duane Wilson might be the best of the lot. It's a shame we didn't get to see what he could do.
Quote from: Ners on February 24, 2014, 10:07:29 PM
Deonte is going to be an absolute STUD...and I feel will be the best player yet we've had under Buzz. Give him 2-3 more years with Todd Smith in strength and conditioning work...wow. He has Barkley type of athleticism and body. Can get a shot off (obviously) anytime he wants. Already Pomroy analytics cite him as Go To go...which of course is due to the volume of shooting. But, Kevin O'Neill said it best...Burton is one of those guys that can go get you 20 and 10 just walking in the gym...yes..hyperbole at this point...but wouldn't surprise me to see Burton be a 18 and 10 guy as a junior.
As for how I'd rate:
Burton - 1st offense, 2nd defensively..has great nose for the ball, disruptive..but gets beat off bounce too easy.
JJJ - 3rd offensively (at this point, not perhaps as his career unfolds - just needs more strength), 1st defensively.
Dawson - 2nd offensively, 3rd defensively. Think he will become a very good defender in his career. Has a very good body for PG....and a good stroke from distance and FT line.
I haven't seen anything from JJJ that makes him good defensively... That said, I haven't seen much from any of the Freshman that shows me that any of them are up to snuff yet.
I'd rank them..
Offense
1. Burton
2. Johnson
3. Dawson, but its close
Defense
1. Burton... good instincts, but gets blown by a lot and makes dumb fouls
2. Dawson Fouls too much, and is only about a 1/2 step behind when chasing around screens
3. JJJ seems slow to react, slow at fighting through screens... not so great on the ball... Will probably get better.
Burton is maddening because he has no idea what he is doing with regards to team concept on offense or defense. His complete offensive philosophy is "Get ball, get best shot I can. Pass only as last resort." His defensive philosophy is "Go for steal."
The thing is, even though that offensive philosophy is terrible, he makes it work quite often. And he does get some steals on defense. I hope someday its all going to click and he is going to be Big East POY good. I think there is a good chance it will. I'm very bullish on his future.
I personally don't have a feel for what Dawson or JJJ will become. Sometimes Dawson looks like he's ready to be handed the keys to the team and sometimes he looks like he doesn't belong (Granted, Ners, his usage pattern is conducive to that sort of play). JJJ's has the weird release and mostly is just another guy on the floor, but has shown flashes of superior talent. Standard freshmen stuff, I guess.
Burton is extremely frustrating at times, but he creates some significant match-up problems for opposing teams. IMO, that is why he sees additional minutes. Dawson and Johnson are classic guards that don't force the opposing coach to adjust defensively. Burton on the other hand, forces coaches to adjust. He's to big and physical for most guards to defend and too quick and athletic for many forwards. The only thing holding him back from even more playing time is his decision making and awareness.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 25, 2014, 07:16:46 AM
Burton is maddening because he has no idea what he is doing with regards to team concept on offense or defense. His complete offensive philosophy is "Get ball, get best shot I can. Pass only as last resort." His defensive philosophy is "Go for steal."
The thing is, even though that offensive philosophy is terrible, he makes it work quite often. And he does get some steals on defense. I hope someday its all going to click and he is going to be Big East POY good. I think there is a good chance it will. I'm very bullish on his future.
I personally don't have a feel for what Dawson or JJJ will become. Sometimes Dawson looks like he's ready to be handed the keys to the team and sometimes he looks like he doesn't belong (Granted, Ners, his usage pattern is conducive to that sort of play). JJJ's has the weird release and mostly is just another guy on the floor, but has shown flashes of superior talent. Standard freshmen stuff, I guess.
I agree about Burton. The others have shown flashes, but he has "the look." Often reminds me of JFB's first year. Limited minutes, but you know that you have something there. Very excited for the future.