Gardner!!!
no one.
Win and move on.
Oliver Purnell
Garrett.
Jk
Davante down the stretch though Todd's line is solid. Too bad his boneheadedness undermines it.
Hard to say. But probably Gardner. Otule, Todd and Jamil in contention too.
Our backcourt. They are game changers ::)
D. Wilson for that huge layup in OT.
Otule.
On a per minute basis, John Dawson.
No one.... Mac and Homer's Derrick, Davante, Jamil, Thomas :P Todd Mayo 6th man.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on February 22, 2014, 03:56:55 PM
Otule.
On a per minute basis, John Dawson.
+100
Per Minute he went to work......
Mayo - for being aggressive offensively. Without his drives we're not in the game at all late.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on February 22, 2014, 03:55:17 PM
Garrett.
Jk
Davante down the stretch though Todd's line is solid. Too bad his boneheadedness undermines it.
Garrett is gonna be a handful for years to come.....
To think he's only a Freshmen.....
Quote from: Nevada233 on February 22, 2014, 03:59:25 PM
Garrett is gonna be a handful for years to come.....
To think he's only a Freshmen.....
I was hoping he would leave instead of Melvin!
But it makes the rivalry that much healthier.
Good for DePaul
Gardner with honorable mention to Chris.
Per minute, Dawson was good on offense but got blown by way too much on defense. Good contribution overall, but not SOTG material.
Quote from: newsdrms on February 22, 2014, 03:57:56 PM
No one.... Mac and Homer's Derrick, Davante, Jamil, Thomas :P Todd Mayo 6th man.
Now they decided on Jamil
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2014, 04:01:07 PM
Gardner with honorable mention to Chris.
Per minute, Dawson was good on offense but got blown by way too much on defense. Good contribution overall, but not SOTG material.
I do agree Dawson gave up some penetration to Garrett, but let's not kid ourselves Garrett blew by our defense all game long..including Derrick.
Derrick of course didn't contribute anything in 28 minutes of regulation play...well Garrett scored 18...hard to win with that kind of disparity at one position game in, game out.
My vote for SOTG would actually be Otule...
Mayo.
Todd.
Certainly not Jamil, who despite his stats played some of the worst defense and committed three of the dumbest fouls I have ever seen.
Mayo, our offense is as boring as Bucky without him.
No one, or Otule.
Mayo and JWilson zoned out a couple times. Davante disappeared in the second half until free throw time. Otule was MIA in the first half, but came through in the second. No one else deserves a mention for SOTG.
Looks like a poll is necessary.
Objectively, it would have to be Gardner for all the clutch FT's down the stretch.
No way for jamil--fouled out and about 10 brain farts with ole' defense.
I kind of want to give it to Otule. He seemed to have the big baskets when we needed them.
If Jake had gotten 1 more 3, I may have considered him, he had a good line and played aggressive. Loved him taking that charge on Garrett.
Jamil had the best line with 19 pts, 9 rbds, 2 asts, 1 stl, and 1 TO.
Loved Dawson's offense. Would have liked to see more of it. If he had played more, maybe could have earned it.
Todd had some explosive drives...and some OJ Mayo level defense...(not a compliment)
But I think I have to vote for Davante. Got us buckets, fouled out three of Depaul's bigs, hit FTs when they mattered, 5 boards, and showed some defensive skills altering a lot of depaul's drives to the hoop
Yeah I think ultimately its Davante. He made the clutch free throws.
Buzz being the fool he is had him on the bench for most of the second half and he never got in rhythm.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 22, 2014, 04:25:54 PM
But I think I have to vote for Davante. Got us buckets, fouled out three of Depaul's bigs, hit FTs when they mattered, 5 boards, and showed some defensive skills altering a lot of depaul's drives to the hoop
Good logic. DG gets my vote, assuming this board has become a democracy.
It was really good to see Otule play some assertive offense. But it's just weird that we are #1 in the conference in team defense, yet we let DePaul put up so many points.
Chris Otule!
Davante. But I won't be shocked if it goes to someone else, as Gardner's scoring is usually taken for granted on this board and it will go to someone else who had a good effort.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 22, 2014, 04:32:52 PM
Yeah I think ultimately its Davante. He made the clutch free throws.
Buzz being the fool he is had him on the bench for most of the second half and he never got in rhythm.
Which college program are you coaching?
A lot of choices, but I have to go with Otule. He played way above his normal offensive game.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 22, 2014, 04:50:02 PM
Which college program are you coaching?
Why is this always the message board defense?
because you have nothing better? NEXT.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 22, 2014, 05:01:33 PM
Why is this always the message board defense?
because you have nothing better? NEXT.
Yes. Buzz is a fool. He has never missed an NCAA Tournament at Marquette. His last 3 years he's gone Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8. But yes, Buzz "being the fool that he is..."
So again, what college program do you coach?
Quote from: wadesworld on February 22, 2014, 05:03:54 PM
Yes. Buzz is a fool. He has never missed an NCAA Tournament at Marquette. His last 3 years he's gone Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8. But yes, Buzz "being the fool that he is..."
So again, what college program do you coach?
What do those years have to do with this years team?
hes got this years team at 16-11 and needing a miracle to make it. So what he's doing is NOT working.
People like you are ridiculous. Why the hell do you even post on here? There is no room for debate if you argument is can you do better.
God get a life.
What college program do you coach Einstein?
None? Thought so.
So you also cannot judge good or bad.
as I said. NEXT.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 22, 2014, 05:05:39 PM
What do those years have to do with this years team?
hes got this years team at 16-11 and needing a miracle to make it. So what he's doing is NOT working.
People like you are ridiculous. Why the hell do you even post on here? There is no room for debate if you argument is can you do better.
God get a life.
Haha. This is hilarious. So Buzz was not a fool the last 3 years? The last 6 years? He just became one this year? Forgot everything he knew about basketball? Interesting perspective.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 22, 2014, 05:06:31 PM
What college program do you coach Einstein?
None? Thought so.
So you also cannot judge good or bad.
as I said. NEXT.
I am not the one calling Buzz Williams a fool. If you are getting paid over $2 million a year to coach basketball and have done better than making 3 straight Sweet 16s, please feel free to call Buzz Williams a fool. Otherwise, if Buzz Williams is a fool, then I guess you just have to come up with some adjective to describe yourself. What will that be?
Quote from: wadesworld on February 22, 2014, 05:08:51 PM
Haha. This is hilarious. So Buzz was not a fool the last 3 years? The last 6 years? He just became one this year? Forgot everything he knew about basketball? Interesting perspective.
I am not the one calling Buzz Williams a fool. If you are getting paid over $2 million a year to coach basketball and have done better than making 3 straight Sweet 16s, please feel free to call Buzz Williams a fool. Otherwise, if Buzz Williams is a fool, then I guess you just have to come up with some adjective to describe yourself. What will that be?
But you said he wasn't. Again, what have you coached to prove otherwise? Your idiotic argument works both ways.
Actually it isn't an argument. So Buzz is just as good of a coach as Coach K?
I mean, if us who don't coach can't say anything negative then its all positives for everyone!!! Buzz=Coach K!!!
Grinnell Division 3 coach= John Wooden!!!!
I said sitting Davante for most of the second half against DePaul ws FOOLISH.
Did he sit his best players for most of the second half against Xavier? Cuse? Butler? Murray State? BYU? Davidson? Miami?
NO. He didn't. He was a FOOL today. He has been one most of this year playing illogical lineups. The record supports that.
NEXT.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 22, 2014, 05:14:40 PM
I said sitting Davante for most of the second half against DePaul ws FOOLISH.
Did he sit his best players for most of the second half against Xavier? Cuse? Butler? Murray State? BYU? Davidson? Miami?
NO. He didn't. He was a FOOL today. He has been one most of this year playing illogical lineups. The record supports that.
NEXT.
You do know that Otule scored 12 points, got 4 offensive boards, and a block in that time right? Buzz played the hotter player
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 22, 2014, 07:03:42 PM
You do know that Otule scored 12 points, got 4 offensive boards, and a block in that time right? Buzz played the hotter player
But Otule wasn't the hotter player at the time. Davante just straight up sat. Chris also bricked 3 free throws.
While we were only up 3 at half...it isn't a coincidence that we lose the half were we get less from Davante.
They could not stop him for 1.5 games...so we stop him?
Luckily in the end he was one of the main reasons we pulled off a thriller to 2-12 DePaul.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 22, 2014, 07:11:13 PM
But Otule wasn't the hotter player at the time. Davante just straight up sat. Chris also bricked 3 free throws.
While we were only up 3 at half...it isn't a coincidence that we lose the half were we get less from Davante.
They could not stop him for 1.5 games...so we stop him?
Luckily in the end he was one of the main reasons we pulled off a thriller to 2-12 DePaul.
+1 Everybody talks about the great defense the starting 5 plays and how they don't turn the ball over. What about all the empty possessions, due to the fact that those 5 are very poor on offense, and are poor free throw shooters? Are missed free throws, empty possessions and turnovers not all the same thing? The Creighton game was a prime example, Otule was the "hot hand" believe he got fouled on three straight possession but he only made 3 out of a possible 6 free throws, meanwhile Creighton score 7 points on the ensuing possessions. So during that stretch we had no turnovers, no empty possessions, played the hot hand, and trailed that 3 possession series 7-4. I don't know the exact stats or chronology, but it was something similar to that. This has been the problem all year that I have had with personnel decisions and why I question some of Buzz's decisions. But I am not a D1 coach with a better career winning percentage than Buzz, so I can't have an opinion.
Melvin?
I never used ignore before but it does drown out the semi-literate and your thread becomes more coherent.The only thing is that the ignored get resurrected in responses to their inane posts.
It's a push!
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 22, 2014, 05:05:39 PM
What do those years have to do with this years team?
hes got this years team at 16-11 and needing a miracle to make it. So what he's doing is NOT working.
People like you are ridiculous. Why the hell do you even post on here? There is no room for debate if you argument is can you do better.
God get a life.
Posters here have continuously claimed that MU was the worst starting point guard and 2 g in the Big East and basically that this is the worst MU starting back court at MU that they can remember. Add to that the premise that the seniors have under performed. Yet, we are tied for 3rd place in Big East, so Buzz must be doing a lot of things right during the game. I do not think anyone one here would argue that we have more talent than Creighton or Villanova.
Quote from: bilsu on February 22, 2014, 08:52:45 PM
Posters here have continuously claimed that MU was the worst starting point guard and 2 g in the Big East and basically that this is the worst MU starting back court at MU that they can remember. Add to that the premise that the seniors have under performed. Yet, we are tied for 3rd place in Big East, so Buzz must be doing a lot of things right during the game. I do not think anyone one here would argue that we have more talent than Creighton or Villanova.
Yes, I agree. But at the same time that PG and 2G are ones that people defend as well. I personally don't like them, but at the same time do see things that they add and have admitted at this point they are among our best possible 5 man lineup(jamil, davante and todd thrown in). It's some of Buzz randomly loyalty that is annoying though. His post game quote are like what? I mean he even said Davante played great today besides to late plays. But why did he sit for so long then? Sure Chris scored some...but Davante was scoring at will for 1.5 games vs them.
Either way, I don't care if you agree with me. It's a message board. We all got our opinions. It pisses me off when someone resorts to the "what team are you coaching" or "where are you playing argument". Seriously? If you can't see how asinine that is on a sports message board idk what to say.
You can disagree with me all you want just don't resort to that.
Quote from: bilsu on February 22, 2014, 08:52:45 PM
Posters here have continuously claimed that MU was the worst starting point guard and 2 g in the Big East and basically that this is the worst MU starting back court at MU that they can remember. Add to that the premise that the seniors have under performed. Yet, we are tied for 3rd place in Big East, so Buzz must be doing a lot of things right during the game. I do not think anyone one here would argue that we have more talent than Creighton or Villanova.
This is well stated. We have a bunch of players who have significant limitations. MU was overrated in pre-season and because of that, they have under-performed.
This is why I can't get on Buzz because I really don't think this is his fault.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 22, 2014, 09:00:48 PM
Yes, I agree. But at the same time that PG and 2G are ones that people defend as well. I personally don't like them, but at the same time do see things that they add and have admitted at this point they are among our best possible 5 man lineup(jamil, davante and todd thrown in). It's some of Buzz randomly loyalty that is annoying though. His post game quote are like what? I mean he even said Davante played great today besides to late plays. But why did he sit for so long then? Sure Chris scored some...but Davante was scoring at will for 1.5 games vs them.
Either way, I don't care if you agree with me. It's a message board. We all got our opinions. It pisses me off when someone resorts to the "what team are you coaching" or "where are you playing argument". Seriously? If you can't see how asinine that is on a sports message board idk what to say.
You can disagree with me all you want just don't resort to that.
Look, I'm not a big fan of our guards either. I just defend how and why they are being used. I would love if Duane or Dawson could step up at PG next year.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 22, 2014, 09:02:45 PM
This is well stated. We have a bunch of players who have significant limitations. MU was overrated in pre-season and because of that, they have under-performed.
This is why I can't get on Buzz because I really don't think this is his fault.
The makeup of the team is Buzz's fault and we can hold him accountable for that. I just think this might be his best coaching job, because third place is amazing with the limitations this team has.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 22, 2014, 09:04:03 PM
Look, I'm not a big fan of our guards either. I just defend how and why they are being used. I would love if Duane or Dawson could step up at PG next year.
Yeah same here. And as I have said, its become clear that Derrick along with Jake need to play(we as I have also said really need the top 3 with them) but they make up our best lineup now.
But seriously, what is the point of a message board if "what team are you coaching" is the go to move? There is no room for discussion at all. I mean damn, it could be me against the board, but let's at least constructively talk some basketball. Maybe that's why I enjoy universal boards better? You get full basketball talk and no what are you doing talk.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 22, 2014, 04:32:52 PM
Yeah I think ultimately its Davante. He made the clutch free throws.
Buzz being the fool he is had him on the bench for most of the second half and he never got in rhythm.
Really? I guess our success for the last 6 years was in spite of buzz? Only one fool here.
Quote from: pbiflyer on February 22, 2014, 09:27:29 PM
Really? I guess our success for the last 6 years was in spite of buzz? Only one fool here.
....And were back.
Otule
Quote from: bilsu on February 22, 2014, 09:18:43 PM
The makeup of the team is Buzz's fault and we can hold him accountable for that. I just think this might be his best coaching job, because third place is amazing with the limitations this team has.
Yeah, I have said from the early part of this year that Buzz is paying the price for the recruiting mistakes especially in the back court.
Jamal Ferguson was a mistake. Took the verbal too early from a guy who peaked early.
Jamail Jones was a mistake. Just didn't pan out.
TJ Taylor...well...hard to blame Buzz for that one.
Vander Blue...not his fault
Otule
SOTG in regulation is Mayo easily
SOTG in overtime is Gardner
For what it's worth, and this is not a Derrick Wilson bash, but I think the difference between a comfortable blowout and an overtime nail biter is the great Gardner feed to Wilson that was bricked underneath the rim from point blank range that would have taken a 7 point lead to 9 and instead resulted in points on the other end. I said to my wife and kids watching on PST after work without knowledge of the outcome that that miss would be critical and a turning point in the momentum of the game. It's too bad the kid can't hit the broad side of a barn from gimmie range or this team would be significantly better.
Honerable mention: Buzz Williams. He kept Todd Mayo in the game despite his temporary lack of judgement. We don't know what was said in the exchange between the two players but I think that was a huge leap of faith for Buzz to acknowledge Mayo's importance and leadership and will pay huge dividends next year regardless of this season's success.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 23, 2014, 01:58:41 AM
SOTG in regulation is Mayo easily
SOTG in overtime is Gardner
For what it's worth, and this is not a Derrick Wilson bash, but I think the difference between a comfortable blowout and an overtime nail biter is the great Gardner feed to Wilson that was bricked underneath the rim from point blank range that would have taken a 7 point lead to 9 and instead resulted in points on the other end. I said to my wife and kids watching on PST after work without knowledge of the outcome that that miss would be critical and a turning point in the momentum of the game. It's too bad the kid can't hit the broad side of a barn from gimmie range or this team would be significantly better.
While I also don't want to sound like a Derrick hater, that was embarrassing.
No SOTG when we lose.
Gardner, with honorable mention to Todd Mayo.
Tough call - going with the Ox.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 23, 2014, 03:37:05 AM
While I also don't want to sound like a Derrick hater, that was embarrassing.
How about DG going up soft for the layup that would have salted the game away?
Otule
Quote from: River rat on February 23, 2014, 09:25:15 AM
How about DG going up soft for the layup that would have salted the game away?
Exactly. Derrick wasn't the only one to miss a bunny. The guy we're applauding for creating the opportunity for Derrick did the same thing.
Quote from: bilsu on February 22, 2014, 09:18:43 PM
The makeup of the team is Buzz's fault and we can hold him accountable for that. I just think this might be his best coaching job, because third place is amazing with the limitations this team has.
I couldn't agree more.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 23, 2014, 09:30:30 AM
Exactly. Derrick wasn't the only one to miss a bunny. The guy we're applauding for creating the opportunity for Derrick did the same thing.
Gardner's bunny was blocked, FYI. And, Gardner has earned a little leeway considering he is the team's most efficient scorer, leading scorer, made clutch FT after FT down the stretch and finished with 22 points in 23 minutes. A far cry from the other guy...who in 33 minutes against the worst team in conference delivered all of 3 points and 3 assists...but hey...he did make a LAYUP at a critical point in the game!!
Are we seriously debating who had the worse missed lay up?
LOL....people need a little more perspective.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 23, 2014, 10:07:41 AM
Are we seriously debating who had the worse missed lay up?
LOL....people need a little more perspective.
I agree, it is funny!! Felt a little context and perspective needed to be added to wadesworld's decision to contrast the Wilson miss with the Gardner miss...hopefully wades will be able to understand a little better why some were frustrated with the easy missed layup of Derrick's, while Gardner was given a pass.
Quote from: Ners on February 23, 2014, 09:54:21 AM
Gardner's bunny was blocked, FYI. And, Gardner has earned a little leeway considering he is the team's most efficient scorer, leading scorer, made clutch FT after FT down the stretch and finished with 22 points in 23 minutes. A far cry from the other guy...who in 33 minutes against the worst team in conference delivered all of 3 points and 3 assists...but hey...he did make a LAYUP at a critical point in the game!!
If he had been clutch at the line the game would never have gone to OT.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 23, 2014, 02:10:36 AM
Honerable mention: Buzz Williams. He kept Todd Mayo in the game despite his temporary lack of judgement. We don't know what was said in the exchange between the two players but I think that was a huge leap of faith for Buzz to acknowledge Mayo's importance and leadership and will pay huge dividends next year regardless of this season's success.
I actually thought the exact same thing. Buzz is starting to gain trust in Mayo. I also think that Mayo very rarely shows emotion so something like that is abnormal and you don't need to set him down, in contrast to a guy like Gardner that lets his emotions get the best of him sometime.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 23, 2014, 12:23:12 PM
If he had been clutch at the line the game would never have gone to OT.
Maybe if our starting PG who got 28 minutes in regulation, made just a single basket, scored a single point..the game wouldn't have gone to OT.
But to your point... Gardner has been a huge failure this season. He's let the team down so much. Gets to deal with double teams every game, and not seeing the ball frequently due to the paint area being packed with an extra defender due to our PG not commanding any respect on the perimeter, and thereby not needing to be guarded and allowing the extra defender into the paint.
Man, if only Gardner had better leadership skills...maybe he could exert his influence on the other team's coach and suggest they man up and defend Derrick all over the court.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 23, 2014, 12:23:12 PM
If he had been clutch at the line the game would never have gone to OT.
What?
You boozing on this fine Sunday?
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 23, 2014, 12:49:02 PM
What?
You boozing on this fine Sunday?
Gardner went 1-2 on the FT line that would have put us up by 2 with thirty seconds left.
He made one...DPU missed the next shot....Jamil made 2...DPU sent it to OT with a 3.
Quote from: Ners on February 23, 2014, 12:47:21 PM
Maybe if our starting PG who got 28 minutes in regulation, made just a single basket, scored a single point..the game wouldn't have gone to OT.
But to your point... Gardner has been a huge failure this season. He's let the team down so much. Gets to deal with double teams every game, and not seeing the ball frequently due to the paint area being packed with an extra defender due to our PG not commanding any respect on the perimeter, and thereby not needing to be guarded and allowing the extra defender into the paint.
Man, if only Gardner had better leadership skills...maybe he could exert his influence on the other team's coach and suggest they man up and defend Derrick all over the court.
1) I agree with you: if Derrick had some offensive, there wouldn't be a constant double on DG
2) if Derrick and Jake cut to the hoop (or in Jakes case, slide beyond the three), then the PG trapped in PF's body could assist more
3) offense shouldn't run through DG, though they've forced that this season
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 23, 2014, 12:52:08 PM
Gardner went 1-2 on the FT line that would have put us up by 2 with thirty seconds left.
He made one...DPU missed the next shot....Jamil made 2...DPU sent it to OT with a 3.
Yes, and up 2 then maybe DePaul goes for the win with the 3. And since they shot 3s better than Derrick shoots free throws...that's a high percentage shot we don't want.
But of course if Steve doesn't miss his 1 and 1...no OT
If Chris can even hit 1/3 fts...no OT.
And don't get me started on Todd and Jamil. Darn them for missing 1 a piece!!!
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 23, 2014, 01:02:54 PM
Yes, and up 2 then maybe DePaul goes for the win with the 3. And since they shot 3s better than Derrick shoots free throws...that's a high percentage shot we don't want.
But of course if Steve doesn't miss his 1 and 1...no OT
If Chris can even hit 1/3 fts...no OT.
And don't get me started on Todd and Jamil. Darn them for missing 1 a piece!!!
I just think that someone was pointing out the ridiculousness of saying that Derrick's missed lay up with over 10 minutes to go was the difference between a OT game and a comfortable win. There were a number of opportunities to put that game away by a number of players.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 23, 2014, 01:07:43 PM
I just think that someone was pointing out the ridiculousness of saying that Derrick's missed lay up with over 10 minutes to go was the difference between a OT game and a comfortable win. There were a number of opportunities to put that game away by a number of players.
If that was the case then yeah it would be valid.
But the comment quoted and sentence specifically bolded was Davante being clutch at the line.
considering he started 1-4(the norm for anyone not name todd, davante or jamil) that means he finished 11-12. Sure, he happpend to miss 1 of his many late free throws.
But as you and I said you could point to a play or free throw by every player that could have ended the game 20 minutes(real time) sooner.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 23, 2014, 01:12:17 PM
If that was the case then yeah it would be valid.
But the comment quoted and sentence specifically bolded was Davante being clutch at the line.
The thread evolved to that point...and the only reason that Davante's FTs were brought up was to razz Ners a little.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 23, 2014, 01:07:43 PM
I just think that someone was pointing out the ridiculousness of saying that Derrick's missed lay up with over 10 minutes to go was the difference between a OT game and a comfortable win. There were a number of opportunities to put that game away by a number of players.
I'm sure in your myopic view it's easy to misinterpret what I said. I hardly pinned us going to overtime on that missed lay up. I did say it was a turning point. A turning point, not THE turning point or the ONLY turning point.
If basketball is anything, it's a game of runs. If you watched our recent game against Creighton you know exactly what I'm talking about. Every time we closed to within 5-7 Creighton went on and answered our run with one of their own to expand the lead back to 10-12. Now mistakes happen all the time in this game as well, so maybe Derrick missing an uncontested shot from 1/2 a foot away from the basket was a mistake, but don't act as if it's inconsequential at that point in the game either. It was a big missed opportunity. We go up by 9 there and we're a stop and a basket from having a double digit lead.
Just like with the Bubble conversation, nothing happens in a vacuum. DePaul was starting to make a little run that cut into our large second half lead. For Marquette to convert on the gimmie and expand a shrinking lead back to double digits completely changes the complexion of the rest of the game in many ways. Answering a run with a run of your own can have a detrimental effect on the trailing team, as if despite their best effort it's still not good enough. Conversely, the longer you give an inferior team the chance to hang around the more they believe they can win.
Now I'm not sure if you're willfully ignorant or blinded by your self satisfaction. I've been trying to figure out which one it is since joining this board. Either way, common sense and a basic understanding of basketball will probably be thrown out the window as so often is the case with you.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 23, 2014, 04:00:32 PM
I'm sure in your myopic view it's easy to misinterpret what I said. I hardly pinned us going to overtime on that missed lay up. I did say it was a turning point. A turning point, not THE turning point or the ONLY turning point.
This is what you said (I added the bold for emphasis):
"For what it's worth, and this is not a Derrick Wilson bash, but
I think the difference between a comfortable blowout and an overtime nail biter is the great Gardner feed to Wilson that was bricked underneath the rim from point blank range that would have taken a 7 point lead to 9 and instead resulted in points on the other end."
This is what I said (against added the bold):
"I just think that someone was pointing out the ridiculousness of saying that Derrick's missed lay up with over 10 minutes to go was
the difference between a OT game and a comfortable win."
So I pretty much stated verbatim what you said. Sorry. Next time I will misrepresent you to make your post less ridiculous.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 23, 2014, 01:58:41 AM
SOTG in regulation is Mayo easily
SOTG in overtime is Gardner
For what it's worth, and this is not a Derrick Wilson bash, but I think the difference between a comfortable blowout and an overtime nail biter is the great Gardner feed to Wilson that was bricked underneath the rim from point blank range that would have taken a 7 point lead to 9 and instead resulted in points on the other end. I said to my wife and kids watching on PST after work without knowledge of the outcome that that miss would be critical and a turning point in the momentum of the game. It's too bad the kid can't hit the broad side of a barn from gimmie range or this team would be significantly better.
There's the whole post. Makes it tough for the rational people on this board to take it out of context. Read the entire thing (slowly Sultan as I know you struggle with comprehension).
Did you actually read my previous post?
The reason trolls exist on the internet at all are due to folks like yourself.
I read the whole thing... You said that Derrick Wilson's missed layup with 10+ minutes to go was critical and a turning point in the momentum of the game, and was the difference between a comfortable win and the game going into overtime.
Which part of this did I take out of context? I mean, I quoted you almost directly.
It was an important play.
Consider at the 15:04 mark Marquette took a 58-43 lead. Exactly four minutes later (11:04) the lead was down to seven at 64-57. DePaul was in the middle of a 14-6 run. After a dead ball foul Devante Gardner makes a great interior pass to a wide open Derrick Wilson who hits the bottom of the rim.
Would have put Marquette up by nine with 10:51 to play. Instead the team doesn't hit a field goal for another 3 minutes and in 4 minutes and 26 seconds following the brick the game is tied at 68.
I'll repeat what I said earlier. It was a turning point in the game. To assume that the game plays out exactly the same afterwards is false reasoning. Everything affects how the remainder of the game is played. Late game fouling, time remaining, player substitution patterns, team strategy moving forward is all different in a close game compared to a comfortable lead.
If Derrick Wilson hits that 1/2 foot uncontested shot it's a nine point game. At that point the team is one stop and a made FG from being up 11-12 and successfully answering DePaul's run, effectively stopping their momentum.
While you can't quantify momentum, it does exist. A pretty pass to an open team mate for a wide open point blank shot has a deflating effect on the team trying to get back into a game. It takes away the momentum DePaul had. The shot didn't go in, DePaul maintains momentum and turned thier 14-6 run into a 25-10 run.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 23, 2014, 05:17:10 PM
I'll repeat what I said earlier. It was a turning point in the game. To assume that the game plays out exactly the same afterwards is false reasoning. Everything affects how the remainder of the game is played. Late game fouling, time remaining, player substitution patterns, team strategy moving forward is all different in a close game compared to a comfortable lead.
I just think you can say that about a lot of plays over the course of a game. And I will just leave it at that.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 23, 2014, 06:04:27 PM
I just think you can say that about a lot of plays over the course of a game. And I will just leave it at that.
Fair enough, but you don't have to be Derrick Wilson's jockstrap defender every time someone points out an aspect in a certain game that was hugely important at the time he happened to be involved in.
I don't want Dawson starting, I just want Wilson to hit an uncontested, point blank, 1/2 foot shot to extend a lead.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 23, 2014, 09:30:22 PM
Fair enough, but you don't have to be Derrick Wilson's jockstrap defender every time someone points out an aspect in a certain game that was hugely important at the time he happened to be involved in.
It had nothing to do with Derrick Wilson. I just don't think a missed lay up by anyone with 10 minutes to go is all that more crucial than a number of other plays during a game.
I would agree in principle with the exception of it's importance as described by the play by play with what transpired the previous four minutes and what transpired afterwards in this particular game.
That kept DePaul in the game. Making it and were a basket or two away from putting the nails in the proverbial coffin.
No stud posted yet.
Maybe there shouldn't be one when you only beat Depaul by 2 and it takes overtime to do it...
But I was hoping Mayo would get some separation with his 4th honor.
Davante
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on February 23, 2014, 09:34:23 PM
It had nothing to do with Derrick Wilson. I just don't think a missed lay up by anyone with 10 minutes to go is all that more crucial than a number of other plays during a game.
[/quote
hey, I agree with you Sultan. And by the same token nobody should go apecrap over him making a layup with about 2.5 minutes remaining, or making 1 of 2 FTs late in the game, as the HC did.]