Just got back from the game.
So many fouls were off the ball that I did not see them. The scoreboard rarely shows replays.
I know a total of 52 fouls were called.
My question, was it "tightly called" or was it "poorly called."
Tightly means they were borderline fouls but still fouls.
Poorly means they were calling fouls where none was committed..
I thught it was poorly called against MU, if mu breathed on creighton it was a foil. Meanwhile in yhe first half especially devante was hacked 3-4 times, jamil at least twice and jake a few times n no whistle. And who were those clowns? Did not recognize them, guy with the buzz cut was brutal against mu
Poorly called. Very inconsistent. It seemed like one team would have 4 or 5 more, then the refs would even it up the other way. No one on either team knew what a foul was in the second half. That's bad.
Quote from: River rat on February 19, 2014, 11:16:30 PM
I thught it was poorly called against MU, if mu breathed on creighton it was a foil. Meanwhile in yhe first half especially devante was hacked 3-4 times, jamil at least twice and jake a few times n no whistle. And who were those clowns? Did not recognize them, guy with the buzz cut was brutal against mu
It was just an inconsistently called game. At some points people were getting hacked underneath and nothing was being called. Then in the second half the refs decided to "clean it up" and ended up going too far--tilting things in favor of Creighton and hence the nonstop booing from the BC crowd.
Never heard that level of boo for that long of a period before.
Shitty both ways. Several fouls called on jump shots MU took were not fouls.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 19, 2014, 11:27:26 PM
Never heard that level of boo for that long of a period before.
crapty both ways. Several fouls called on jump shots MU took were not fouls.
We were booing because when Creighton was bringing the ball up the court you knew they would just call a foul for something 30 feet from the ball. It wasn't basketball and it was frustrating to watch.
We did not lose because of the officiating. Blaming the officials is a losing proposition. The calls are the calls and we just have to play through them. The officials did not cause the numerous uncontested layups that Creighton made. Our lousy defense did.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 19, 2014, 11:19:24 PM
Poorly called. Very inconsistent. It seemed like one team would have 4 or 5 more, then the refs would even it up the other way. No one on either team knew what a foul was in the second half. That's bad.
This. Seemed like there were a record number of ghost calls and make-ups .. both ways. Bad crew.
Didn't change the outcome of the game, Creighton would have beaten us like a drum with good refs.
Too Macy
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 19, 2014, 11:35:33 PM
This. Seemed like there were a record number of ghost calls and make-ups .. both ways. Bad crew.
Didn't change the outcome of the game, Creighton would have beaten us like a drum with good refs.
Turds, but this.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 19, 2014, 11:35:33 PM
This. Seemed like there were a record number of ghost calls and make-ups .. both ways. Bad crew.
Didn't change the outcome of the game, Creighton would have beaten us like a drum with good refs.
Disagree. Did not even let the kids compete. Don't know what kind of game it would have been if the refs let them play a basketball game. Fine. Creighton wins a shooting contest every time. Whoop-dee-doo.
Quote from: karavotsos on February 20, 2014, 12:10:21 AM
Disagree. Did not even let the kids compete. Don't know what kind of game it would have been if the refs let them play a basketball game. Fine. Creighton wins a shooting contest every time. Whoop-dee-doo.
It would have been the same game. They would have murdered us from 3 point range in either scenario. Creighton beats MU 9 out of 10 times.
Let's face it, the New Big East got the dregs of the NCAA officiating ranks... let's hope it gets addressed for next season.
Bad officiating, but I'd argue the 15+ missed free throws need to be addressed before we discuss tonight's calls............
Do you think the Creighton fans on their board are saying MU fans are whining about the officiating like we blamed them of possibly doing the other day?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 01:48:17 AM
Do you think the Creighton fans on their board are saying MU fans are whining about the officiating like we blamed them of possibly doing the other day?
Maybe, but pretty much every person has said they would have beaten us either way, so what's your point?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 01:48:17 AM
Do you think the Creighton fans on their board are saying MU fans are whining about the officiating like we blamed them of possibly doing the other day?
I have to admit that I thought the exact same thing as I read through these comments. We were poking fun at Creighton fans for whining in advance and now we deserve a little fun poked at us for whining in the aftermath.
It's not easy to make an objective case that we were jobbed when far more fouls were called on Creighton, we shot far more free throws, our PG went 2-for-7 from the line and our supposed offensive catalyst went 3-for-7.
Very poorly officiated. Sucked the life right out of the game. I complained about as many fouls against Creighton that simply didn't need to be called, as i did against marquette. Just makes for a bad, boring basketball game. Two coaches box warnings? C'mon.
Not the reason we lost, but unbelievably poor officiating. Just awful, in the second half especially.
I came away with two distinct thoughts after the game:
(1) Creighton is a much better team than us.
(2) That was the worst officiating job I have seen in a long time.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 01:48:17 AM
Do you think the Creighton fans on their board are saying MU fans are whining about the officiating like we blamed them of possibly doing the other day?
Creighton' coach got a warning for complaining about the officiating so he wasn't happy either.
I'm not saying the officials lost the game for us, they did not. I'm saying the 52 fouls called made it a bad product to watch. And I would guess if you asked Creighton fans was the officiating bad and did that make it less enjoyable they would agree.
The officiating was the worst I've seen at an MU game all year.
Creighton is still better than us by a long shot, but a game with a lot of fouls called easily favors the better shooting team... which we haven't been in years.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 20, 2014, 06:07:19 AM
Maybe, but pretty much every person has said they would have beaten us either way, so what's your point?
I guess I find it interesting that we start a thread before a game even is played that Creighton fans are whining about the officiating leading to their defeat. Then the actual game is played and we have a lot of our fans doing the exact same thing. I know the original thread was just a tease, don't get me wrong.
I just hate the blame the officiating stuff, even when caveated with "they were the better team and would have won anyway". How about simply, they were the better team. It was a home game, everyone knew how important it was to us, fans in full throat, and they came in and beat us and other than a very short burst, they did it to us rather emphatically all game long. Takes the refs out of it.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 08:19:25 AM
I guess I find it interesting that we start a thread before a game even is played that Creighton fans are whining about the officiating leading to their defeat. Then the actual game is played and we have a lot of our fans doing the exact same thing. I know the original thread was just a tease, don't get me wrong.
I just hate the blame the officiating stuff, even when caveated with "they were the better team and would have won anyway". How about simply, they were the better team. It was a home game, everyone knew how important it was to us, fans in full throat, and they came in and beat us and other than a very short burst, they did it to us rather emphatically all game long. Takes the refs out of it.
Because officiating affects games. Its just that simple.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 08:19:25 AM
I guess I find it interesting that we start a thread before a game even is played that Creighton fans are whining about the officiating leading to their defeat. Then the actual game is played and we have a lot of our fans doing the exact same thing. I know the original thread was just a tease, don't get me wrong.
I just hate the blame the officiating stuff, even when caveated with "they were the better team and would have won anyway". How about simply, they were the better team. It was a home game, everyone knew how important it was to us, fans in full throat, and they came in and beat us and other than a very short burst, they did it to us rather emphatically all game long. Takes the refs out of it.
I started this thread and was not trying to use it as an excuse for the loss.
As I noted before the crowd booed most of the second half. That was the officiating. They made the game unwatchable ... unwatchable for the neutral fan and frustrating for the MU fan. I'm sure the Creighton fan tolerated it because they were winning. But that's what they did ... tolerated it.
15,600 fans wanted a basketball game. Many thousands more watching TV wanted a basketball game. Instead three refs blow a whistle every 12 seconds (which was exactly the pace to start the second half) ruined it for everyone.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 08:19:25 AM
I guess I find it interesting that we start a thread before a game even is played that Creighton fans are whining about the officiating leading to their defeat. Then the actual game is played and we have a lot of our fans doing the exact same thing. I know the original thread was just a tease, don't get me wrong.
I just hate the blame the officiating stuff, even when caveated with "they were the better team and would have won anyway". How about simply, they were the better team. It was a home game, everyone knew how important it was to us, fans in full throat, and they came in and beat us and other than a very short burst, they did it to us rather emphatically all game long. Takes the refs out of it.
Did you actually read people's comments (in either thread really)? It was a poorly officiated game that made it a pretty low quality product. What's wrong with pointing that out?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 08:19:25 AM
I guess I find it interesting that we start a thread before a game even is played that Creighton fans are whining about the officiating leading to their defeat. Then the actual game is played and we have a lot of our fans doing the exact same thing. I know the original thread was just a tease, don't get me wrong.
I just hate the blame the officiating stuff, even when caveated with "they were the better team and would have won anyway". How about simply, they were the better team. It was a home game, everyone knew how important it was to us, fans in full throat, and they came in and beat us and other than a very short burst, they did it to us rather emphatically all game long. Takes the refs out of it.
Get over it. It was in good fun. Jeez.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 20, 2014, 08:23:23 AM
Because officiating affects games. Its just that simple.
It can, of course. Here's the way I look at it, if both sides are complaining, then it is typically bad for both sides. My question and what I believe to be the most important question, did one team gain an advantage over the officiating? I get the fact that it becomes boring to watch, etc, etc. Was one team given an advantage as a result of the officiating? If so, how?
Quote from: Aughnanure on February 20, 2014, 08:31:28 AM
Get over it. It was in good fun. Jeez.
Someone asked my point, I explained it. Sheez
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 20, 2014, 08:27:54 AM
Did you actually read people's comments (in either thread really)? It was a poorly officiated game that made it a pretty low quality product. What's wrong with pointing that out?
Yes, and I just addressed that. Nothing wrong with pointing that out, but if you had also read some people's comments there is a lot "they were better, but" ....stop with the buts IMO.
Bad reffing can absolutely dictate a game's outcome, especially if it is one sided. My view was last night was not a well officiated game, but I also don't think it advantaged one team either. Both sides suffered. In that situation, I don't get worked up over it. If my team is getting worked and clearly disadvantaged, then that's a different story. IMO
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 08:38:22 AM
It can, of course. Here's the way I look at it, if both sides are complaining, then it is typically bad for both sides. My question and what I believe to be the most important question, did one team gain an advantage over the officiating? I get the fact that it becomes boring to watch, etc, etc. Was one team given an advantage as a result of the officiating? If so, how?
I don't think anyone is arguing that. Most are arguing that it was poorly officiated and no fun to watch... not that one team was getting all the calls.
The product on the floor was ruined by the officials.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 20, 2014, 08:48:16 AM
I don't think anyone is arguing that. Most are arguing that it was poorly officiated and no fun to watch... not that one team was getting all the calls.
The product on the floor was ruined by the officials.
Come on, Hards. Don't ruin Chicos' narrative with your facts!
The thing that bothered me about the officiating is it made the game very difficult to watch.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 08:19:25 AM
I guess I find it interesting that we start a thread before a game even is played that Creighton fans are whining about the officiating leading to their defeat. Then the actual game is played and we have a lot of our fans doing the exact same thing. I know the original thread was just a tease, don't get me wrong.
I just hate the blame the officiating stuff, even when caveated with "they were the better team and would have won anyway". How about simply, they were the better team. It was a home game, everyone knew how important it was to us, fans in full throat, and they came in and beat us and other than a very short burst, they did it to us rather emphatically all game long. Takes the refs out of it.
What would be the circumstances whereby you'd allow reffing quality to be a legit topic of discussion?
I submit the 'caveating' makes it legit. We're not pointing at the refs as the reason we lost, we're pointing at them as a matter of .. a negative aspect of the basketball product on display .. and we believe Creighton fans (or anyone who watched) would be in agreement .. the reffing was poor both ways.
Not specifically directed at you, but it's a given that there are some people in the commentariat who can't wait to slap down anyone who brings up the lack of quality officiating for any reason.
It's a legit topic .. while it's possible I missed the NCAA handbook on this, I look at the NFL for a 'good' example of how they approach ref quality in terms of game-by-game review and grading. Not that the NCAA should grade every game, but they clearly need to vote some guys off the island every season.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 20, 2014, 09:11:37 AM
It's a legit topic .. while it's possible I missed the NCAA handbook on this, I look at the NFL for a 'good' example of how they approach ref quality in terms of game-by-game review and grading. Not that the NCAA should grade every game, but they clearly need to vote some guys off the island every season.
Which is hard when they are all independent contractors.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 20, 2014, 09:13:47 AM
Which is hard when they are all independent contractors.
I assume they contract with the conferences? And that's fine, let the conferences do it. Clearly, the top 5-6 conferences have the resources to pull it off .. so if they do the review and move along sub-standard refs and those refs move to the lower conferences, so be it, let the market forces work their magic.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 20, 2014, 09:13:47 AM
Which is hard when they are all independent contractors.
That should make it easy, no? "Your contract has not been renewed".
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 20, 2014, 09:24:52 AM
I assume they contract with the conferences? And that's fine, let the conferences do it. Clearly, the top 5-6 conferences have the resources to pull it off .. so if they do the review and move along sub-standard refs and those refs move to the lower conferences, so be it, let the market forces work their magic.
And I'm sure they do that. But remember that the BE director of officials is John Cahill...who was one of them up until last year. He's going to have a bias that prevents him from freezing out all but the worst offenders.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 20, 2014, 09:26:35 AM
That should make it easy, no? "Your contract has not been renewed".
By one conference perhaps. But there are others.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 20, 2014, 09:27:44 AM
And I'm sure they do that. But remember that the BE director of officials is John Cahill...who was one of them up until last year. He's going to have a bias that prevents him from freezing out all but the worst offenders.
Unknown .. it takes a good ref to know about the performance of bad refs. I imagine they get as irked as we do about bad officiating. -- In any event, if Cahill isn't doing his job (either) .. the league has a multi-billion dollar entertainment business they need to protect and would need to find a guy actually do the job.
Long time reader, first time posting. Last night's officiating drove me to the point of joining the discussion. First off I think Creighton is a better team and that they executed their game plan better than we did. Regardless of officiating I think they come out with the win last night.
However, that was some abysmal officiating. I was sitting in the lower part of student section (next to the sombrero guy) with some fellow law school students and we were appalled at the calls being made. First, refs were making the wrong calls and you could tell by the hand signals they were using. On one possession they called Creighton's 31 for two hands to the back of our guy (one of those new fouls)...when both of 31s hands were in the air. Then they'd call illegal use of the hands when if anything it was a ticky tack blocking foul. Throughout the game we saw about 7 or 8 such calls on both sides. I even think they called Jake for putting his forearm on the defender while both of his arms were spread out wide. It made the game painful to watch. Moreover it made the game painful to play and both teams players were visibly frustrated with the officiating. You could also tell they were making bad calls by the number of make up calls. There were several times Creighton would get four or five fouls in a row and like clockwork we would get the next four or five. Granted some of that can be attributed to the ebb and flow of the game, but clearly there was some compensating for missed or bad calls. This only exacerbated problems though because they would make up for bad calls...with more bad calls. Frustrating to watch. Creighton earned the W but both teams deserved a better officiating crew.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 20, 2014, 09:11:37 AMIt's a legit topic .. while it's possible I missed the NCAA handbook on this, I look at the NFL for a 'good' example of how they approach ref quality in terms of game-by-game review and grading. Not that the NCAA should grade every game, but they clearly need to vote some guys off the island every season.
The NFL isn't that great of an example because Jeff Triplette reffed a playoff game.
I'll say this about the officiating last night...it was absolutely brutal to watch. The second half just didn't move. I think it prevented you guys from making a comeback but prevented us from pulling away until we finally executed down the stretch. Your booing of the refs on every one of our offensive possessions during that stretch, while completely warranted of the refs, definitely put our offensive into an uncomfortable feel and probably affected them worse than standing and cheering did.
I'll maintain, like most here, that the calls did not favor either team but I think the style ended up favoring us based on free throw ability.
I definitely recognize that no one here is really blaming the officials for the loss, recognizing there wasn't much of a bias and also that the guy that started the other thread hasn't posted here but it is a little ironic that there is still a thread on the first page saying that Creighton is already blaming the officials.
I bet we see you guys in the BE tourney and wish you all luck down the stretch. Hopefully you'll be able to do what you need to do to get into the dance and I'll especially be rooting for MU against Nova.
I have the seen the phrase "worst officiating I have ever seen" after every single loss this season.
My guess is while we may have still agreed it was bad officiating, no one would be using this phrase if we had won.
You can say it's just about how it affected the product on the floor, but it is definitely fueled by being upset that we lost and the subconscious belief that it somehow affected our chances at victory.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 20, 2014, 10:32:12 AM
I have the seen the phrase "worst officiating I have ever seen" after every single loss this season.
My guess is while we may have still agreed it was bad officiating, no one would be using this phrase if we had won.
You can say it's just about how it affected the product on the floor, but it is definitely fueled by being upset that we lost and the subconscious belief that it somehow affected our chances at victory.
100% guarantee refs would be blamed pretty heavily by some over on our board had Marquette come out on top the way this game was called.
Pathetic display of officiating!! Horrible for both teams. I commend Buzz's patience because if I would've ran and tackled one of those zebras after a few of those calls. That's also probably why I am not a basketball coach....
Loved the booing. If the refs suck that bad, let them hear it!!!
There was one point after another awful call against Jamil and everybody start booing again. Jamil just looked right at the student section and started waving his arms up and down to get the student section to boo louder. Really surprised he didnt get T'd up for that.
Quote from: esard2011 on February 20, 2014, 10:58:50 AMReally surprised he didnt get T'd up for that.
Or get a coaches box warning.
The thing that really upset me was in the first half 6-7-8 times Mu players got really hammered going to the basket, bumped hard or raked across the arms and there were not calls. Big no calls in a game that we were down 6-7-8-9 points. then in the second half any bump or breath on a creighton player was a foul. All occurred on the ned where the buzzcut guy was werking the baseline. Called no fouls on them when we were going that direction and in the next half everything on us
Quote from: River rat on February 20, 2014, 01:18:02 PM
The thing that really upset me was in the first half 6-7-8 times Mu players got really hammered going to the basket, bumped hard or raked across the arms and there were not calls. Big no calls in a game that we were down 6-7-8-9 points. then in the second half any bump or breath on a creighton player was a foul. All occurred on the ned where the buzzcut guy was werking the baseline. Called no fouls on them when we were going that direction and in the next half everything on us
Creighton was whistled for more fouls than Marquette in both halves. MU shot 11 more FTs in the 1st half and 3 more in the 2nd. The number of off-ball fouls was unusually high on both ends, particularly in the 2nd half, but the officials were hardly one-sided.
I understand where in-stadium fans are coming from because often with an off-ball foul, fans don't see it because they're focusing on the ball and there's no replay. If a foul on your team doesn't take place in clear view, human nature assumes that the officials got the call wrong.
Question: If both teams are dissatisfied with the officiating, does that mean that it was a fairly officiated game?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 20, 2014, 01:29:10 PM
Creighton was whistled for more fouls than Marquette in both halves. MU shot 11 more FTs in the 1st half and 3 more in the 2nd. The number of off-ball fouls was unusually high on both ends, particularly in the 2nd half, but the officials were hardly one-sided.
I understand where in-stadium fans are coming from because often with an off-ball foul, fans don't see it because they're focusing on the ball and there's no replay. If a foul on your team doesn't take place in clear view, human nature assumes that the officials got the call wrong.
Question: If both teams are dissatisfied with the officiating, does that mean that it was a fairly officiated game?
Fair, yes. Good, no.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 20, 2014, 01:29:10 PM
Creighton was whistled for more fouls than Marquette in both halves. MU shot 11 more FTs in the 1st half and 3 more in the 2nd. The number of off-ball fouls was unusually high on both ends, particularly in the 2nd half, but the officials were hardly one-sided.
I understand where in-stadium fans are coming from because often with an off-ball foul, fans don't see it because they're focusing on the ball and there's no replay. If a foul on your team doesn't take place in clear view, human nature assumes that the officials got the call wrong.
Question: If both teams are dissatisfied with the officiating, does that mean that it was a fairly officiated game?
Umm I watched the game on TV. And Like Buzz stated it is not a refs job to call the same number of both teams. Creighton are perimeter passers and Jump shooters = not alot of fouls . Mu feeds the post and drives.
On at least half a dozen occassions in the first half, jake, jamil, and Devante were fouled with an arm accross both of the shooters forearms, which i replayed multiple times and there was no call. Or drivers were hip checked while driving and missed shots with no call with the buzz cut guy 5 feet awat. in the second half there were multiple ghost callswhere there was no contact on Creighton drives and the same buzz cut guy game off the baseline with his arm up. Given the styles of play MU should have significantly more fouls called aginst the opposition. That is why Buzz follows the stat so closely, paint touches lead to fouls. A huge factor in the game was the 6-7-8 drives in the first half that resulted in turnovers or missed shots when they were clear ly fouls but no whistle was blown. they put us in catchup mode the rest of the night. And I am one that rarely rarely say anything about refs. I thought the second half was poorly officiated both ways. In the first half Mu got plain screwed.
Quote from: River rat on February 20, 2014, 01:47:23 PM
Umm I watched the game on TV. And Like Buzz stated it is not a refs job to call the same number of both teams. Creighton are perimeter passers and Jump shooters = not alot of fouls . Mu feeds the post and drives.
On at least half a dozen occassions in the first half, jake, jamil, and Devante were fouled with an arm accross both of the shooters forearms, which i replayed multiple times and there was no call. Or drivers were hip checked while driving and missed shots with no call with the buzz cut guy 5 feet awat. in the second half there were multiple ghost callswhere there was no contact on Creighton drives and the same buzz cut guy game off the baseline with his arm up. Given the styles of play MU should have significantly more fouls called aginst the opposition. That is why Buzz follows the stat so closely, paint touches lead to fouls. A huge factor in the game was the 6-7-8 drives in the first half that resulted in turnovers or missed shots when they were clear ly fouls but no whistle was blown. they put us in catchup mode the rest of the night. And I am one that rarely rarely say anything about refs. I thought the second half was poorly officiated both ways. In the first half Mu got plain screwed.
Marquette drew 36.4% more fouls than Creighton and took 63.6% more FTs. That's significantly more.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 20, 2014, 01:29:10 PM
I understand where in-stadium fans are coming from because often with an off-ball foul, fans don't see it because they're focusing on the ball and there's no replay. If a foul on your team doesn't take place in clear view, human nature assumes that the officials got the call wrong.
Why don't they show replays in the stadium? It is easy enough to pick up the TV feed and put it on the scoreboard.
Are they afraid of working up the crowd after showing a bad call? Well not showing them anything worked up the crowd last night. Maybe if they showed the "good calls" fans would see what happened and not get as irate.
Quote from: Heisenberg on February 20, 2014, 03:24:19 PM
Why don't they show replays in the stadium? It is easy enough to pick up the TV feed and put it on the scoreboard.
Are they afraid of working up the crowd after showing a bad call? Well not showing them anything worked up the crowd last night. Maybe if they showed the "good calls" fans would see what happened and not get as irate.
I think thats the general idea. If they end up showing a bad call people would get even more upset. Like you said though not like it mattered last night as the entire stadium was booing for a good 5 minutes straight.
Quote from: Heisenberg on February 20, 2014, 03:24:19 PM
Why don't they show replays in the stadium? It is easy enough to pick up the TV feed and put it on the scoreboard.
Are they afraid of working up the crowd after showing a bad call? Well not showing them anything worked up the crowd last night. Maybe if they showed the "good calls" fans would see what happened and not get as irate.
Usually a conference rule or policy. It is frowned upon. When my team ran game management, we were in communications constantly with the video board folks on the scoreboard and would articulate to them that they could not show certain replays. It was sometimes challenging because these were the same guys that did the NBA games and often would show replays of calls. I don't know if they still do, I rarely go to NBA games.
At any rate, frowned upon or a direct policy from conference. I remember vs DePaul one time where the DU player punched one of our guys in the stones and that replay got up on the board. Their AD, Bill Bradshaw lost his mind screaming at me and the team. The board operator put up the replay prior to viewing it and did not know the DU player had gone jewel hunting. It was not good to say the least.
Quote from: esard2011 on February 20, 2014, 03:25:59 PM
I think thats the general idea. If they end up showing a bad call people would get even more upset. Like you said though not like it mattered last night as the entire stadium was booing for a good 5 minutes straight.
No it did matter ... all the off the ball calls feels like random whistles as no one knew what happened because your watching the ball and do not see the call 25 feet away.
They don't have to replay every whistle, just show the ones that were "obvious fouls." That way it doesn't feel so random and you don't get so frustrated.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 20, 2014, 09:11:37 AM
What would be the circumstances whereby you'd allow reffing quality to be a legit topic of discussion?
I submit the 'caveating' makes it legit. We're not pointing at the refs as the reason we lost, we're pointing at them as a matter of .. a negative aspect of the basketball product on display .. and we believe Creighton fans (or anyone who watched) would be in agreement .. the reffing was poor both ways.
Not specifically directed at you, but it's a given that there are some people in the commentariat who can't wait to slap down anyone who brings up the lack of quality officiating for any reason.
It's a legit topic .. while it's possible I missed the NCAA handbook on this, I look at the NFL for a 'good' example of how they approach ref quality in terms of game-by-game review and grading. Not that the NCAA should grade every game, but they clearly need to vote some guys off the island every season.
Absolutely a legit topic, its when it goes into the reasons why we lost domain that I have trouble with it. People nowadays bend over backwards to say it wasn't the reason we lost, but then spend 10 minutes saying how one sided it was. IMO
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 03:32:51 PM
Usually a conference rule or policy. It is frowned upon. When my team ran game management, we were in communications constantly with the video board folks on the scoreboard and would articulate to them that they could not show certain replays. It was sometimes challenging because these were the same guys that did the NBA games and often would show replays of calls. I don't know if they still do, I rarely go to NBA games.
At any rate, frowned upon or a direct policy from conference. I remember vs DePaul one time where the DU player punched one of our guys in the stones and that replay got up on the board. Their AD, Bill Bradshaw lost his mind screaming at me and the team. The board operator put up the replay prior to viewing it and did not know the DU player had gone jewel hunting. It was not good to say the least.
Can you explain this a bit more? Why is it a rule/policy? Shouldn't players/refs be held accountable? If the DU player punched the guy, shouldn't the AD have been mad at his player for his actions rather than the replay being shown?
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 20, 2014, 03:44:11 PM
Can you explain this a bit more? Why is it a rule/policy? Shouldn't players/refs be held accountable? If the DU player punched the guy, shouldn't the AD have been mad at his player for his actions rather than the replay being shown?
I'll do my best from memory. One concern is it becomes a player safety issue. If you keep showing a replay of some player attacking another player, the crowd is ginned up and some yahoo is libel to throw his beer or quarters or whatever at the kid. In essence, don't instigate a riot or another subsequent event is the rationale.
For controversial calls, it is more about not showing up the refs, etc. I haven't done game management in a long time, so things obviously could have changed, but that was the deal then. The UCLA game I went to last week, a few controversial calls and none of them made replays either.
Worst officiated game I had seen in years.
Understand, the officiating did not matter. Creighton was clearly the better team last night. But the officials took the game out of the players hands.
Was not consistent and the officials were more interested in a statistically even game than a consistent game for both teams. Too bad because it cheapens the efforts of the players.
On the topic of replays .. why the f*** does the NCAA think its particular fans can't control themselves, beyond NBA fans, MLB fans, NHL fans? .. that's just asinine.
Not showing up the refs? Every other sport somehow manages. Those refs aren't students, they get paid, no reason to treat them any different than every other ref at every other stadium.
SHOW THE REPLAYS! It's the #1 thing missing from the entertainment product they sell.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 21, 2014, 08:44:22 AM
On the topic of replays .. why the f*** does the NCAA think its particular fans can't control themselves, beyond NBA fans, MLB fans, NHL fans? .. that's just asinine.
Not showing up the refs? Every other sport somehow manages. Those refs aren't students, they get paid, no reason to treat them any different than every other ref at every other stadium.
SHOW THE REPLAYS! It's the #1 thing missing from the entertainment product they sell.
Not showing replays is just making the home viewing product better than the arena, which would be a bad business model.
Quote from: PTM on February 21, 2014, 08:50:47 AM
Not showing replays is just making the home viewing product better than the arena, which would be a bad business model.
Maybe, but that's not the reason. Schools want people to go to the games, ticket revenue is huge for schools.
In terms of Hilltopper's question, its not pro sports and they view it accordingly IMO. All kinds of gray lines and of course people can take the argument they are pseudo pro athletes, etc, but it is an area that most schools I've seen don't cross. I don't even know if it is a NCAA policy, but it was a CUSA policy back in the day and I'm sure most conferences were operating under the same guidelines.