Poll
Question:
Who would you rather have on the free throw line?
Option 1: Chris Otule
Option 2: Derrick Wilson
Just curious?
Third option: Neither
None of the above.
just curious...
wtf is the point of this?
oh, right. i forgot we won the last few games, so you haven't had much to post about. got it.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 19, 2014, 09:16:00 PM
just curious...
wtf is the point of this?
oh, right. i forgot we won the last few games, so you haven't had much to post about. got it.
I thought it was an interesting question to see what others felt... I was contemplating this very question. Lighten up.
Quote from: mubuzz on February 19, 2014, 09:20:38 PM
I thought it was an interesting question to see what others felt... I was contemplating this very question. Lighten up.
yea. ok. ::)
Add Todd "the Second One Rims Out" Mayo to that list
A foul against Derrick Wilson while MU is in the bonus is essentially a turnover for Marquette.
If I were the opposing team, I would utilize that strategy more...
Never has a team been so hurt by its opponent committing 10 fouls so early. I wish they would institute a rule allowing you to decline the free throws and just take the ball out of bounds.
Derrick's and Otule's free throw shooting did not hurt us tonight. You hope for 1-2 every trip to line from them. What hurt us was the good free throw shooters (especially Mayo) were also missing free throws.
Quote from: bilsu on February 19, 2014, 11:01:21 PM
Derrick's and Otule's free throw shooting did not hurt us tonight. You hope for 1-2 every trip to line from them. What hurt us was the good free throw shooters (especially Mayo) were also missing free throws.
What? Of course it hurt us...you are setting the expectation bar very low. 50 percent from the line is unacceptable from anyone. They went 5 for 14...30 percent! If you don't think that hurts I don't know what to tell you.
might be the dumbest thing I read on MUScoop this week - and that is saying a lot...
Quote from: bilsu on February 19, 2014, 11:01:21 PM
Derrick's and Otule's free throw shooting did not hurt us tonight. You hope for 1-2 every trip to line from them. What hurt us was the good free throw shooters (especially Mayo) were also missing free throws.
Our free throw shooting is completely unacceptable. Buzz should have an entire practice spent shooting free throws.
Our free throw shooting tonight was horrendous. Is there even a quibble about officiating if we shoot 75%?. While Todd, Jamil and Gardner (although with the last he still needs more touches) struggled, it doesn't forgive the shooting night from Derrick and Chris. I can forgive Chris but our starting (and only?) point guard needs to hit 70%+ from the FT line.
Neither
Quote from: mubuzz on February 19, 2014, 11:08:07 PM
What? Of course it hurt us...you are setting the expectation bar very low. 50 percent from the line is unacceptable from anyone. They went 5 for 14...30 percent! If you don't think that hurts I don't know what to tell you.
It hurt us, but poor FT shooting is what we get from the every night. They lived up to their standard level of play. Mayo on the other hand is a much higher career free throw shooter and he shot like Chris and Derrick tonight.
I don't expect Derrick/Chris to make their FTs but I do expect Todd to
Quote from: Chris Columbo on February 19, 2014, 11:43:01 PM
Our free throw shooting is completely unacceptable. Buzz should have an entire practice spent shooting free throws.
Finally, we are back to 2011-2012 Scoop!
Quote from: Chris Columbo on February 19, 2014, 11:43:01 PM
Our free throw shooting is completely unacceptable. Buzz should have an entire practice spent shooting free throws.
They've got so many other things that need to be worked on in practice.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 20, 2014, 12:35:46 AM
Our free throw shooting tonight was horrendous. Is there even a quibble about officiating if we shoot 75%?. While Todd, Jamil and Gardner (although with the last he still needs more touches) struggled, it doesn't forgive the shooting night from Derrick and Chris. I can forgive Chris but our starting (and only?) point guard needs to hit 70%+ from the FT line.
Now we see why when Derrick was dribbling free at the FT line on at least 3 occasions, his defender was 3 FEET off him. Absolutely NO RESPECT for our PG ability to shoot. They just packed it in--more than I have ever seen. And you cannot have an inside game when 4 defenders are in a box around OX. They were playing 5 on our 4 when on defense.
Buzz better remedy this next year. A PG who shoots 48% on FT's and cannot score unless it is a layup will only get our asses kicked again next year, unless we play Grambling all year.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 20, 2014, 01:42:22 AM
It hurt us, but poor FT shooting is what we get from the every night. They lived up to their standard level of play. Mayo on the other hand is a much higher career free throw shooter and he shot like Chris and Derrick tonight.
I don't expect Derrick/Chris to make their FTs but I do expect Todd to
You don't expect our starting pg to hit his ft's? At the absolute bare minimum he needs to be hitting at 65 percent. It's actually disheartening that you have come to accept this type of mediocrity.
took a very basketball-knowledgeable friend to the game last night (played the game, watches a lot of ball, has not seen Marquette live this year) - he was astounded by how bad our PG play was. They sagged off of Wilson by 10+ feet, he can not make free throws (as I said, fouling him in the bonus is essentially creating a turnover for the other team) and is an adventure going to the hoop unless completely free / unguarded...
on the way out the people in front of us said "at least we won't have Wilson at PG next year" - should have seen the look on their face when I reminded them he is a junior...
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 06:52:58 AM
Now we see why when Derrick was dribbling free at the FT line on at least 3 occasions, his defender was 3 FEET off him. Absolutely NO RESPECT for our PG ability to shoot. They just packed it in--more than I have ever seen. And you cannot have an inside game when 4 defenders are in a box around OX. They were playing 5 on our 4 when on defense.
Buzz better remedy this next year. A PG who shoots 48% on FT's and cannot score unless it is a layup will only get our asses kicked again next year, unless we play Grambling all year.
Quote from: Chris Columbo on February 19, 2014, 11:43:01 PM
Our free throw shooting is completely unacceptable. Buzz should have an entire practice spent shooting free throws.
And defending the three against spread offenses--better yet--a week of practices.
Quote from: mubuzz on February 20, 2014, 08:11:38 AM
You don't expect our starting pg to hit his ft's? At the absolute bare minimum he needs to be hitting at 65 percent. It's actually disheartening that you have come to accept this type of mediocrity.
Never fear--in less than a day the Buzz/Derrick defenders will be coming out with the Kool Aid lines: "Buzz has no other option at the point"," "He has been improving and has not reached his ceiling", "Buzz knows more than all of us combined", "Dawson would do no better" (not withstanding he might try and make a 3), "Derrick is a good kid--Creighton is just better", " You are an idiot", "Our talent is just not very good", etc. etc.
Derrick is a good kid, but against the good teams, he is a huge liability--cannot shoot--cannot make FT's--cannot get the ball into the post--allows defenses to pack it in. And that is what we have going forward in the current scheme.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 08:58:14 AM
And defending the three against spread offenses--better yet--a week of practices.
Ugh. There's a flip side to that. That would mean he'd have to watch us shoot threes for a week. Maybe his stomach can't handle it.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 09:08:10 AM
Never fear--in less than a day the Buzz/Derrick defenders will be coming out with the Kool Aid lines: "Buzz has no other option at the point"," "He has been improving and has not reached his ceiling", "Buzz knows more than all of us combined", "Dawson would do no better" (not withstanding he might try and make a 3), "Derrick is a good kid--Creighton is just better", " You are an idiot", "Our talent is just not very good", etc. etc.
Derrick is a good kid, but against the good teams, he is a huge liability--cannot shoot--cannot make FT's--cannot get the ball into the post--allows defenses to pack it in. And that is what we have going forward in the current scheme.
To address your anticpated comments one by one.
1. I really think Buzz doesn't have a better option at point, but when the defense decides, like last night, that they aren't going to guard Derrick, we should at least try someone else.
2. Derrick has definitely been improving. The improvement is in his approach rather than his skillset, however, so I do think he is moving very close to his ceiling.
3. Buzz DOES know more than we do about his team, including who should be the PG.
4. Almost always Dawson would not do better, but against a defense that does not try to turn you over like Creighton, he is a viable option.
5. Derrick IS a good kid and Creighton IS better.
6. I would desribe you, in the words of Eric Cartman, as a "Negative Nancy," not an idiot.
7. Our talent is quite good, but it is just not complementary. Not enough shooters, not enough guys who can take it to the hole and finish.
Quote from: mubuzz on February 20, 2014, 08:11:38 AM
You don't expect our starting pg to hit his ft's? At the absolute bare minimum he needs to be hitting at 65 percent. It's actually disheartening that you have come to accept this type of mediocrity.
Again, you don't understand.
Derrick is who is. He is a 50% foul shooter. There is no magic remedy for him to get better at FTs. Yes, his FT shooting hurt us last night, but we have won before when he has shot that bad.
We lost last night because in addition to him shooting poorly from the FT, we also had good FT shooters missing.
I'm not disagreeing with you on Derrick being a liability. I'm just saying I'm more disappointed in our good FT shooters than I am in our bad ones.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 20, 2014, 09:23:40 AM
Ugh. There's a flip side to that. That would mean he'd have to watch us shoot threes for a week. Maybe his stomach can't handle it.
But..but..maybe our 3 point shooting will improve.
This loss has shown how reactionary fans are. In the last three games we shot what? 91% from the FT line. But because of one bad game we are terrible. Derrick has three games in a row of stellar (for him)/average (for most BEast PGs) and one game where he actually did pretty well and he is back to whipping boy status.
The one positive is that the Jake critics haven't come out of the woodwork yet. Who knew that all he had to do was make a few twos in a game.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 20, 2014, 09:33:38 AM
To address your anticpated comments one by one.
1. I really think Buzz doesn't have a better option at point, but when the defense decides, like last night, that they aren't going to guard Derrick, we should at least try someone else.
2. Derrick has definitely been improving. The improvement is in his approach rather than his skillset, however, so I do think he is moving very close to his ceiling.
3. Buzz DOES know more than we do about his team, including who should be the PG.
4. Almost always Dawson would not do better, but against a defense that does not try to turn you over like Creighton, he is a viable option.
5. Derrick IS a good kid and Creighton IS better.
6. I would desribe you, in the words of Eric Cartman, as a "Negative Nancy," not an idiot.
7. Our talent is quite good, but it is just not complementary. Not enough shooters, not enough guys who can take it to the hole and finish.
If our talent is "quite good", how do you explain 11 losses already? Where does coaching come into this?
As far as "Negative Nancy", I call these games as I see them. Our ass got kicked last night because we could not defend the three, and they packed it into the paint due to ineffective PG play. Sorry if that is "negative". I consider it as objective, and these things should be corrected by this time in the season. And as I predicted, the defense of PG play and Buzz would take less than half a day. And our performance will continue next year unless the Coach figures out a way to remedy it--and 40 minutes for the PG is not a remedy
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 10:25:41 AM
If our talent is "quite good", how do you explain 11 losses already? Where does coaching come into this?
I thought I did. Our talent is not complementary. We have too many athletic guys who can't shoot. Too many of the same kinda guy.
And you're not a negative nancy for pointing out our issues, but rather for constantly and incessantly and exclusively pointing out our issues. I happen to agree with a lot of what you say.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 10:25:41 AM
If our talent is "quite good", how do you explain 11 losses already? Where does coaching come into this?
As far as "Negative Nancy", I call these games as I see them. Our ass got kicked last night because we could not defend the three, and they packed it into the paint due to ineffective PG play. Sorry if that is "negative". I consider it as objective, and these things should be corrected by this time in the season. And as I predicted, the defense of PG play and Buzz would take less than half a day. And our performance will continue next year unless the Coach figures out a way to remedy it--and 40 minutes for the PG is not a remedy
I absolutely believe this to be true.
I also know that you will "call em like you see them" when it is bad news for Marquette. You however will not "call em like you see them" when it is a positive for Marquette.
Now I don't think this is because you are against Marquette...Everyone knows you have been a Warrior forever. You just don't see the need to point out what everyone is already seeing.
However, if this is the kind of fan you are, you are going to be labeled as a negative nancy. It's not a bad thing, it just is.
agree with you but...
its painfully obvious this will not be a high level performing team with such glaring weaknesses at the PG spot. sure - we can beat decent teams (like X) when he has his best game AND others play well. but we will not be an elite team...
and next year, we lose our very talented big men and still have the same PG...
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 20, 2014, 10:21:43 AM
This loss has shown how reactionary fans are. In the last three games we shot what? 91% from the FT line. But because of one bad game we are terrible. Derrick has three games in a row of stellar (for him)/average (for most BEast PGs) and one game where he actually did pretty well and he is back to whipping boy status.
The one positive is that the Jake critics haven't come out of the woodwork yet. Who knew that all he had to do was make a few twos in a game.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 20, 2014, 11:07:19 AM
I absolutely believe this to be true.
I also know that you will "call em like you see them" when it is bad news for Marquette. You however will not "call em like you see them" when it is a positive for Marquette.
Now I don't think this is because you are against Marquette...Everyone knows you have been a Warrior forever. You just don't see the need to point out what everyone is already seeing.
However, if this is the kind of fan you are, you are going to be labeled as a negative nancy. It's not a bad thing, it just is.
BS Eagle-- I congratulated the team and specifically said that Derrick and Jake stepped up big against Xavier. And guess what Eagle--it needs to be pointed out "what everybody is seeing", because many people are not seeing it through their rose colored glasses. When the Warriors play well, I say so, and when they play poorly, the problems need to be pointed out
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 20, 2014, 01:42:22 AM
It hurt us, but poor FT shooting is what we get from the every night. They lived up to their standard level of play. Mayo on the other hand is a much higher career free throw shooter and he shot like Chris and Derrick tonight.
I don't expect Derrick/Chris to make their FTs but I do expect Todd to
That is exactly what I was saying.
explain how having a guy who primarily handles the ball that can not make free throw does not hurt the team?
in any bonus situation, a team fouling Wilson has a 50% shot of actually having it be a turnover....
last night, the game was out of hand by the end. imagine a close game... they will be hacking derrick all the time...
Quote from: bilsu on February 20, 2014, 12:12:54 PM
That is exactly what I was saying.
Quote from: Chris Columbo on February 19, 2014, 11:43:01 PM
Our free throw shooting is completely unacceptable. Buzz should have an entire practice spent shooting free throws.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/enough-internet.gif)
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 12:06:15 PM
BS Eagle-- I congratulated the team and specifically said that Derrick and Jake stepped up big against Xavier. And guess what Eagle--it needs to be pointed out "what everybody is seeing", because many people are not seeing it through their rose colored glasses. When the Warriors play well, I say so, and when they play poorly, the problems need to be pointed out
Your amount of posts after a loss compared to after a win is unreal willie
Quote from: weareMU13 on February 20, 2014, 02:50:52 PM
Your amount of posts after a loss compared to after a win is unreal willie
I wouldn't know--I did not count them--maybe you have. "Unreal". Think they are all real posts.
Quote from: weareMU13 on February 20, 2014, 02:50:52 PM
Your amount of posts after a loss compared to after a win is unreal willie
It's not just willie. Dreadman, Chris Columbo, mubuzz, Nevada....
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 20, 2014, 12:56:36 PM
explain how having a guy who primarily handles the ball that can not make free throw does not hurt the team?
in any bonus situation, a team fouling Wilson has a 50% shot of actually having it be a turnover....
last night, the game was out of hand by the end. imagine a close game... they will be hacking derrick all the time...
Sure it would help if Wilson was a good free throw shooter, but the team does not expect him to make them. When Mayo misses several it hurts the team, because they expect him to make them.
The team looked "tight" to me and I question why are they so tight? Just because a game is important does not mean that the team and coach has to get up-tight.
Quote from: bilsu on February 20, 2014, 05:22:02 PM
Sure it would help if Wilson was a good free throw shooter, but the team does not expect him to make them. When Mayo misses several it hurts the team, because they expect him to make them.
Huh? A missed FT is a missed FT...doesn't matter who misses it...sure, it was more surprising to see Mayo miss than Derrick and Otule....but, just because a team/coach may not "expect" a player to make a FT, doesn't minimize how costly it is to miss FTs..regardless of who shoots them..
More often than not, teams that rebound, play tough defense, and make most of their free throws win games. We didn't make free throws the way we are capable of doing last night. It's not all that went wrong...getting stripped in transition to set easy buckets is painful...but if we make 30 instead of 20, it changes the complexion. Creighton is a great front runner, but in tight games they don't look as unstoppable.
Quote from: Ners on February 20, 2014, 06:09:25 PM
Huh? A missed FT is a missed FT...doesn't matter who misses it...sure, it was more surprising to see Mayo miss than Derrick and Otule....but, just because a team/coach may not "expect" a player to make a FT, doesn't minimize how costly it is to miss FTs..regardless of who shoots them..
Thank you Ners
I'm glad someone picked apart the lack of logic in that post before I was forced to.