While Marquette was trying to blow its second half lead at Seton Hall, I saw a tweet that featured "#CurseOfVander." It kind of irked me. I'm over it and don't blame him for this season, and never really did.
I don't know if people have really been able to sit back and appreciate what he did for the team while at Marquette, especially last season. Curious what immediately pops into people's head when they hear or read the name "Vander Blue."
http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2014/2/13/5409580/he-made-a-decision-you-didnt-like-but-lets-appreciate-vander-blue (http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2014/2/13/5409580/he-made-a-decision-you-didnt-like-but-lets-appreciate-vander-blue)
Quote from: trebby123 on February 14, 2014, 02:23:24 PM
While Marquette was trying to blow its second half lead at Seton Hall, I saw a tweet that featured "#CurseOfVander." It kind of irked me. I'm over it and don't blame him for this season, and never really did.
I don't know if people have really been able to sit back and appreciate what he did for the team while at Marquette, especially last season. Curious what immediately pops into people's head when they hear or read the name "Vander Blue."
http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2014/2/13/5409580/he-made-a-decision-you-didnt-like-but-lets-appreciate-vander-blue (http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2014/2/13/5409580/he-made-a-decision-you-didnt-like-but-lets-appreciate-vander-blue)
Gone in the first round of the NCAA tournament instead of making the elite eight.
Overly cocky...
Ever since he stepped foot on campus that's all that I ever thought of him. Damn good player but not as good as he thinks he is. Probably could've been with this year but we'll never know because he was overly cocky and left.
Last weekend I was watching the Butler and Miami tournament games. He is exactly what we need this year.
He could have been a legend.
So you'll always think of what could have been instead of what actually was? Not trying to sound like an @$$ there. Genuinely curious.
Frankly, other than a phenomenal game in the tournament against Butler, I thought he was just OK (as Buzz said recently). A horrible shooter, a so-so ball handler and a good defender. Overall, a disappointing career as an individual. For some reason people seem to talk about him like he was some legendary player...he most certainly was not.
He was a solid role player his first 2 years that played great defense that broke out his junior year. We all know what he was. Were going to speculate because he could have had a major impact on this years team. With him I dont think were a bubble team and a solid 5 seed.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 14, 2014, 02:38:43 PM
Frankly, other than a phenomenal game in the tournament against Butler, I thought he was just OK (as Buzz said recently). A horrible shooter, a so-so ball handler and a good defender. Overall, a disappointing career as an individual. For some reason people seem to talk about him like he was some legendary player...he most certainly was not.
He did put the team on his back on more than a few occasions and drove us to the elite eight last year.
Vander is who Vander was when he was in High School. Immature, but an amazing athlete.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 14, 2014, 02:28:00 PM
Overly cocky...
Ever since he stepped foot on campus that's all that I ever thought of him. Damn good player but not as good as he thinks he is. Probably could've been with this year but we'll never know because he was overly cocky and left.
Was a little immature when he got to campus. He grew quite a bit while he was at Marquette. Yeah he was cocky...but he is a good guy.
Trebby, this was a real good article. I don't think he was near the caliber of Lazar, JFB or Jae, but he was solid. I think one big thing they are missing with his absence is his leadership. He was very much a leader off the floor last year, and I think that would have obviously continued into this year.
Overall, I see the negatives and positives together. Net-net he was a good MU player, but will not be someone we talk about as a legend in 15 or 20 years.
Two years below expectations.
One year that exceeded them.
Some off the court issues, some of which were exaggerated. Some not.
I don't hold him responsible for this year's lackluster season (the players on the court are responsible), but he certainly could have cemented a legacy for himself at MU had he stayed. It's a shame that didn't happen.
Quote from: trebby123 on February 14, 2014, 02:31:20 PM
So you'll always think of what could have been instead of what actually was? Not trying to sound like an @$$ there. Genuinely curious.
Yes, that's the first thing that pops into my head when I think of Vander.
Since you asked about what Vander actually was, he was a below average player for the first 2.5 years at MU. He stepped up big time the 2H of last year. I understand why he decided to leave and harbor no ill will against his decision.
But he could have been a legend
Bottom line with VB is he came to MU to play basketball in preparation for what he is doing today. He did what was best for VB and I don't blame him one bit. And the reality is that he is now living that dream.
Does anyone here really believe that VB was ever going to end up in a cube farm doing debits on the left or schlepping a bag a la Willie Loman? I hope he someday completes his education for the sake of accomplishment but at this stage in his life it is a very minor objective. I cannot fathom the animosity for a man who added a sparkling chapter to the story of Marquette basketball.
The shallow only see his departure. The enlightened picture those game winning shots against SJU and BU and thank him for such memories.
Vander was always a very good defender. As a junior, he stepped that up. He also picked up the pull up jumper and hit some huge threes late in some huge games. He is missed this year, but he was really good last year. I like the article and the premise. Thanks Vander!!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 14, 2014, 02:38:43 PM
Frankly, other than a phenomenal game in the tournament against Butler, I thought he was just OK (as Buzz said recently). A horrible shooter, a so-so ball handler and a good defender. Overall, a disappointing career as an individual. For some reason people seem to talk about him like he was some legendary player...he most certainly was not.
Co-sign. The start of his final season, after the first few games, anyone could have observed "Same old Vander .." with his lack of a shooting touch and inability to finish in the paint.
Then he had a great final ~20 games (although not without clunkers) but most of his prior ~70 games were usually forgettable.
Would he have been quite fantastic in his senior year? Likely.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 14, 2014, 02:43:31 PM
I don't think he was near the caliber of Lazar, JFB or Jae, but he was solid. I think one big thing they are missing with his absence is his leadership. He was very much a leader off the floor last year, and I think that would have obviously continued into this year.
I agree. He wasn't. I know some judge players based on postseason success, and he led a team further than those guys did. Interesting discussion. Unfortuantely, it appears his legacy at Marquette will always be one full of what ifs.
One word: Underappreciated.
When Vander set foot on campus, fans' expectations for him were unrealistic. Many fans got down on him early for his offensive struggles. He had ditched UW to come to MU so many wanted him to be a superstar from day one for that reason alone. He was a very good defender and role player as a freshman. He had a strong all-around soph season (4th in scoring, 3rd in reb, assists and steals), but because he wasn't a big scorer many viewed him as a bust, and still do. His junior year, he embraced being "the man" offensively and led the team to a Big East title and an Elite 8 run.
Was he the next Dwyane Wade or even Jerel McNeal? No, but he was a very good player for 3 years who unfortunately didn't, and won't, get the credit he deserved.
When I think of VB I think of a very good MU player that was also responsible for two great moments in MU bball history. I also think that he could have been remembered as one of the greats if he stayed for his final year. That stated, I respect his decision and hope like hell that he realizes his NBA dream. If he does, I will be very proud and excited that another MU player has succeeded at the next level.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 14, 2014, 02:43:31 PM
I don't think he was near the caliber of Lazar, JFB or Jae, but he was solid.
This may be true, but I would argue that he was probably more important to the team than Lazar, Jimmy, or Jae were in their junior years.
I am a Vander fan, as noted the bar was set high for him at Marquette and he struggled to reach it at times, but never because of a lack of effort. For the first couple years it seemed like he could always get the basket but often couldn't quite finish, how frustrating that was. When he finally reached the point where he could finish consistently he apparently was ready to move on.
I stumbled across a NBDL game on the satellite a few days ago and watched Vanders 87ers play against Maine. It was interesting to watch Vander play again, different system but his personal style was similar. What I noticed was Vander makes the offense better, he drives and dishes and makes defenses move around, but at the same time he still often tried to do too much, trying to make the highlight play instead of the easy dish off or pull up, and on this day he struggled to finish.
I think having Vander would have made our half court offense much more fun to watch, it would have been fun to watch Vander play with the athletic Freshmen, and I think they could have learned a lot from him about what he went through during his time at Marquette.
Quote from: MUSF on February 14, 2014, 03:30:53 PM
This may be true, but I would argue that he was probably more important to the team than Lazar, Jimmy, or Jae were in their junior years.
I'll agree with Jae and Zar but I don't think we even make the NCAA tournament without Jimmy's Jr year.
Davidson. Needed to score and VB scored--no early exit.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 14, 2014, 02:28:00 PM
Overly cocky...
Ever since he stepped foot on campus that's all that I ever thought of him. Damn good player but not as good as he thinks he is. Probably could've been with this year but we'll never know because he was overly cocky and left.
What does crap like this even mean? Man, talk about a panties mindset. And it's easy for you to say if he stayed he would've been good because you have no basis for it and will never be wrong about the assertion. Course, considering the displeased view you have of him I can't imagine Vander could do anything, short of laying a whore in your lap, to shake you off the self-righteous "he was cocky and now has paid for it" stance.
By the way, were you one of the cognoscenti in October who said unquestionably this version of MU basketball would be better off without Vander Blue?
Quote from: trebby123 on February 14, 2014, 02:23:24 PM
Curious what immediately pops into people's head when they hear or read the name "Vander Blue."
A great recruit and a great player. Not the best we have ever had at MU, but certainly a very good player who gave MU his all for three years. I wanted him to stay and thought it was a mistake for him to leave at the time. Now that he is getting some limited NBA time, I might be wrong. Either way, I wish him the best and am very happy that he spent his time at MU and that he will always be a welcome member of our community.
Big fan of Vander and pulling for him. Hope he reaches the goals he has set for himself. While not a all time great he provided some great memories for MU fans. He did not do alone last year but was definitely the difference maker. On selfish note I wish he were here this season. Loved watching him play D and push it up the court.
I think what if everyone on this year team's received an equal share of the competitiveness and confidence that Vander had...
Quote from: Stronghold on February 14, 2014, 07:07:34 PM
I think what if everyone on this year team's received an equal share of the competitiveness and confidence that Vander had...
Yup!
There are a million Vander Blue's out there. Really good athlete. Can't shoot. Won't ever make it in an environment where that gets exposed. I also watched a couple of his D league games and while his form continues to improve, he's still streaky and takes too many bad shots. I wish he had stayed to get his degree because he - unlike JFB or Novak or Jae - will need to make more money after basketball than he did during basketball.
He made the decision to leave early. It hurt the team, but his intention determines if it was stupid or not.
If his intention was to get out of a college experience he didn't enjoy – to take some money playing basketball ASAP, then his decision to go was smart.
If his intention was to be a draft choice and have a prominent entry into an NBA career, he was an arrogant fool. A senior year at MU would've set him up like Butler, Crowder, etc.
Only he knows what his intention was.
Quote from: silverback on February 15, 2014, 03:11:46 AM
He made the decision to leave early. It hurt the team, but his intention determines if it was stupid or not.
If his intention was to get out of a college experience he didn't enjoy – to take some money playing basketball ASAP, then his decision to go was smart.
If his intention was to be a draft choice and have a prominent entry into an NBA career, he was an arrogant fool. A senior year at MU would've set him up like Butler, Crowder, etc.
Only he knows what his intention was.
His goal was to play in the NBA. Mission accomplished. Let's see if he can parlay this opportunity into something more.
I don't think Wes Matthews really cares how he got to the show. Some guys arrive in limos but hitch hike home. Wes hitch hiked there but now goes home in a limo. Doesn't matter how you get there. What matters is how long you stay.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 14, 2014, 02:46:56 PM
Yes, that's the first thing that pops into my head when I think of Vander.
Since you asked about what Vander actually was, he was a below average player for the first 2.5 years at MU. He stepped up big time the 2H of last year. I understand why he decided to leave and harbor no ill will against his decision.
But he could have been a legend
Mostly agreed. Except I'd say "average" for 2.5 years - the "below average" was mainly relative to expectations. And if he'd stayed and played like he did down the stretch last season, we'd be debating whether our seed would be a 3 or a 4....
My first thought(s) would be I wish him well in his pro career and hope for his success. My second thought would be that he really turned the corner last year and was set to be a big time player for Marquette this season in what was expected to be a big time season. As the season has progressed I don't focus on the second one, because I focus on what the team is instead of what it isn't. And I root for the team for what it is. I have no hard feelings.
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 15, 2014, 02:59:38 AM
There are a million Vander Blue's out there.
Even if it was only a 10-day contact, Vander Blue made the NBA.
Quote from: WarriorFan on February 15, 2014, 02:59:38 AM
There are a million Vander Blue's out there.
Your drastic exaggeration is not helping your argument.
VB was a top 50 recruit out of high school, all-conference in one of the best conferences in cbball, an NBA player, etc..
Pretty far from 1 in a million.
Quote from: WI_inferiority_complexes on February 15, 2014, 10:12:50 AM
Even if it was only a 10-day contact, Vander Blue made the NBA.
He actually PLAYED in the NBA, something Jerel McNeal never did.
Leave...this man, alone. LOL...for crying out loud.
Let him go about his career path and journey in life free...What do you mean "what do we think of him at this point?"
He doesn't care and neither should you. Wish him well or not and leave him be. Dang!
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 15, 2014, 10:24:43 AM
He actually PLAYED in the NBA, something Jerel McNeal never did.
Jerel McNeal did play in the NBA with Utah didn't he among other teams. It wasn't long but Jerel logged some NBA minutes if I am not mistaken.
And even if he didn't, please root for him! I am...he is still working and from what I have seen of some obscure guys who have played in the NBA he will get his chance.
If they stopped passing over kids from the US who play 4 years of college for this foreign players teams just stash and stockpile we might see guys like Dominic James and Jerel McNeal and Lazar Hayward back in the league.
As watered down as the NBA is...I know they are better then many of the guys in the league and got some great coaching and preparation here at MU.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on February 15, 2014, 12:59:00 PM
He doesn't care
He doesn't care? He doesn't care! Then what the hell are we all doing here?
Quote from: keefe on February 15, 2014, 04:42:59 AM
His goal was to play in the NBA. Mission accomplished. Let's see if he can parlay this opportunity into something more.
I don't think Wes Matthews really cares how he got to the show. Some guys arrive in limos but hitch hike home. Wes hitch hiked there but now goes home in a limo. Doesn't matter how you get there. What matters is how long you stay.
Excellent! Wonderful post... #1 bump this one...
Quote from: silverback on February 15, 2014, 03:11:46 AM
He made the decision to leave early. It hurt the team, but his intention determines if it was stupid or not.
If his intention was to get out of a college experience he didn't enjoy – to take some money playing basketball ASAP, then his decision to go was smart.
If his intention was to be a draft choice and have a prominent entry into an NBA career, he was an arrogant fool. A senior year at MU would've set him up like Butler, Crowder, etc.
Only he knows what his intention was.
Another great one....Good stuff. I echo these sentiments as well. Well done.
Quote from: MUSF on February 14, 2014, 03:30:53 PM
This may be true, but I would argue that he was probably more important to the team than Lazar, Jimmy, or Jae were in their junior years.
No....he wasn't. No....Jimmy, Jae, and Lazar were crucial their junior and senior years. Vander would have been more crucial then any of them had him come back on this particular team. But he didn't so it is a moot point.
Jimmy, Jae, and Lazar could shoot.
After reading this thread...definitely under appreciated.
The kid made it to the association. That makes him one of the top 1% of college basketball players. Kid is a great talent and I expect to see him stick on a rotation.
We could have used him this year. Heard melodies are sweet.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on February 15, 2014, 01:16:38 PM
No....he wasn't. No....Jimmy, Jae, and Lazar were crucial their junior and senior years. Vander would have been more crucial then any of them had him come back on this particular team. But he didn't so it is a moot point.
Jimmy, Jae, and Lazar could shoot.
I don't think you could possibly argue that Jae was more important than VB in their junior years.
Vander picked a chance at his dream. That's fine. Sucks for us fans, but that's his life. Also, the turmoil in conference upheaval probably played big in his decision...?
Quote from: Nukem2 on February 15, 2014, 09:48:31 PM
Vander picked a chance at his dream. That's fine. Sucks for us fans, but that's his life. Also, the turmoil in conference upheaval probably played big in his decision...?
You really think conference upheaval played a role?
Quote from: mviale on February 15, 2014, 09:59:11 PM
You really think conference upheaval played a role?
He was very upset about the Val Ackerman hire.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 14, 2014, 02:29:07 PM
Last weekend I was watching the Butler and Miami tournament games. He is exactly what we need this year.
Do you have video of those games? I looked for them recently--my search included the NCAA vault--but came up empty.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 15, 2014, 10:04:25 PM
He was very upset about the Val Ackerman hire.
It wasn't so much the hire that upset him but Ackerman's choice of Ikea furniture for the new Conference offices. It was then that Vander Blue knew his future lay elsewhere, beyond the Conference Without a Website.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 14, 2014, 04:51:34 PM
What does crap like this even mean? Man, talk about a panties mindset. And it's easy for you to say if he stayed he would've been good because you have no basis for it and will never be wrong about the assertion. Course, considering the displeased view you have of him I can't imagine Vander could do anything, short of laying a whore in your lap, to shake you off the self-righteous "he was cocky and now has paid for it" stance.
By the way, were you one of the cognoscenti in October who said unquestionably this version of MU basketball would be better off without Vander Blue?
Lol did you not read your own post? Pot calling the kettle black. But even if he'd stayed I'd still think he was overly cocky and you'd still have your panties in a bundle about it but thank you for your long insulting post sorry I upset you oh so much.
Quote from: keefe on February 14, 2014, 02:47:01 PM
Bottom line with VB is he came to MU to play basketball in preparation for what he is doing today. He did what was best for VB and I don't blame him one bit. And the reality is that he is now living that dream.
Does anyone here really believe that VB was ever going to end up in a cube farm doing debits on the left or schlepping a bag a la Willie Loman? I hope he someday completes his education for the sake of accomplishment but at this stage in his life it is a very minor objective. I cannot fathom the animosity for a man who added a sparkling chapter to the story of Marquette basketball.
The shallow only see his departure. The enlightened picture those game winning shots against SJU and BU and thank him for such memories.
Well said Keefe. I share those sentiments.
Quote from: Goose on February 14, 2014, 06:18:09 PM
Big fan of Vander and pulling for him. Hope he reaches the goals he has set for himself. While not a all time great he provided some great memories for MU fans. He did not do alone last year but was definitely the difference maker. On selfish note I wish he were here this season. Loved watching him play D and push it up the court.
Agree, good not great. He was a difference maker with help. We have had some great guards over the years. I wish him all the best. I am less concerned about any impact he had on this team but more concerned that he would have improved his shot with another year which would help him at the next level.
Vander is a stud...replace him with Derrick's minutes this year and we are 20-5 right now!!
The missing piece. An every game leader. A big guard who can defend multiple positions. An alpha guard who can get his own shot, whether from the 1 or the 2. I wish him nothing but the best.
Quote from: tower912 on February 17, 2014, 05:03:20 PM
The missing piece. An every game leader. A big guard who can defend multiple positions. An alpha guard who can get his own shot, whether from the 1 or the 2. I wish him nothing but the best.
+1
He wanted the ball in his hands with the game on the line. The importance of that cannot be stressed enough. The definition of a leader.
Quote from: mubuzz on February 17, 2014, 05:00:03 PM
Vander is a stud...replace him with Derrick's minutes this year and we are 20-5 right now!!
He'd be replacing Jake, not Derrick.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 17, 2014, 06:12:00 PM
He'd be replacing Jake, not Derrick.
Well in my perfect world he would run the point and play 35 a game.
He was a guy who wanted the ball in his hands when it meant something. Most guys wait for the light to change to cross the street, Vander is type that goes against the light. Few have that skill and most of are jealous of those who do. Win or lose VB was a guy who wanted the ball. That is missing this year and hopefully someone,likely mayo, becomes that guy.