MUScoop

Is his post game with Mac and Homer, Buzz said about Derrick's good performance, "now maybe all those people asking about Derrick's minutes will stop."

Who are "those people?"  Is MUscoop "those people?"

Ners, you better keep your identity a secret a secret ... If Buzz figures out who you are, remember, he pumps iron now and has Gerry Boyle as his Lawyer!

Scoop for coach of the year?

In all seriousness though if I had to guess Buzz has probably heard some fans saying things behind the bench during games. Doubt he checks scoop.

Quote from: Heisenberg on February 11, 2014, 10:49:55 PM
Ners, you better keep your identity a secret a secret ... If Buzz figures out who you are, remember, he pumps iron now and has Gerry Boyle as his Lawyer!

When the going gets tough, you don't want a criminal lawyer... you want a criminal lawyer.

Quote from: Heisenberg on February 11, 2014, 10:49:55 PM
Is his post game with Mac and Homer, Buzz said about Derrick's good performance, "now maybe all those people asking about Derrick's minutes will stop."

Who are "those people?"  Is MUscoop "those people?"

Ners, you better keep your identity a secret a secret ... If Buzz figures out who you are, remember, he pumps iron now and has Gerry Boyle as his Lawyer!

Buzz definitely knows what is being said on here...don't think he reads it personally, but gets de-briefed.  Buzz also knows I have a severe man crush on him, and even though I vehemently disagree with his take on the PG situation this year - doesn't mean I don't still have a ton of respect and admiration for him.

However, I do wish he would be consistent in his approach - he sure didn't say after Dawson played great against Georgetown - "Perhaps I've really made a mistake in how I've handed out minutes at the PG position." 

And lastly, it really is a commentary on how little we've come to expect from PG when 4 points on layups, and 3 of 4 from the FT line in 29 minutes is really good PG play.  Don't think Derrick had 1 assist in the 2nd half...

Quote from: Ners on February 11, 2014, 11:03:21 PM
Buzz definitely knows what is being said on here...don't think he reads it personally, but gets de-briefed.  Buzz also knows I have a severe man crush on him, and even though I vehemently disagree with his take on the PG situation this year - doesn't mean I don't still have a ton of respect and admiration for him.

However, I do wish he would be consistent in his approach - he sure didn't say after Dawson played great against Georgetown - "Perhaps I've really made a mistake in how I've handed out minutes at the PG position." 

And lastly, it really is a commentary on how little we've come to expect from PG when 4 points on layups, and 3 of 4 from the FT line in 29 minutes is really good PG play.  Don't think Derrick had 1 assist in the 2nd half...

No commentary from me. Just Derrick's stats:

27 min
7 pts (2/5)
3/4 FT
2 Reb
5 Assts
0 TOs
3 PF
+18

Quote from: jesmu84 on February 11, 2014, 11:20:28 PM
No commentary from me. Just Derrick's stats:

27 min
7 pts (2/5)
3/4 FT
2 Reb
5 Assts
0 TOs
3 PF
+18

The best of that stat line is that he went 3-4 from the FT line during a clutch time during the game.  Kudos on that.  The rest of the line...meh....Jamil went 4 of 4 on 3's to open the game..Derrick assisted those...3 of which were to Jamil in the trail position...sorry those don't get me excited about his play...any PG makes that pass..

Changed my mind, kinda. Not my commentary. Buzz's...

"we had 10 turnovers in the 1H...30% of our possessions were turnovers...Why does Derrick play so much?...maybe that is solved now for a while...then in 2H we had 3 TOs"

Quote from: Ners on February 11, 2014, 11:03:21 PM
Buzz definitely knows what is being said on here...don't think he reads it personally, but gets de-briefed.  Buzz also knows I have a severe man crush on him, and even though I vehemently disagree with his take on the PG situation this year - doesn't mean I don't still have a ton of respect and admiration for him.

However, I do wish he would be consistent in his approach - he sure didn't say after Dawson played great against Georgetown - "Perhaps I've really made a mistake in how I've handed out minutes at the PG position." 

And lastly, it really is a commentary on how little we've come to expect from PG when 4 points on layups, and 3 of 4 from the FT line in 29 minutes is really good PG play.  Don't think Derrick had 1 assist in the 2nd half...

Buzz gave Dawson an 8:19 stretch today and Dawson, to be kind, was not good. I am not a huge fan of Derrick's game -- I had to give myself a Derrick moratorium back in December, and I actually stayed true to mine! -- but I was wondering if Derrick was hurt and said on a couple of occasions we needed to get Derrick back in there.

I believe in riding the hot hand. Dawson didn't have it tonight in any way, shape or form. Buzz stayed with him too long.

Now there's a critique we haven't seen often this season!

Quote from: Ners on February 11, 2014, 11:03:21 PM
.  Don't think Derrick had 1 assist in the 2nd half...

So, 5 assists, 0 TOs, 7 points in 27 minutes vs 0 assists, 3 TOs and 0 points in 9 (consecutive) minutes. With one of the TOs dribbling the ball out of bounds 45 feet from the basket with nobody near him (never seen that before). You keep wanting to make it about Derrick not being an All American. Everyone knows that. It's not about that. It's about Derrick being more ready to play 25-30 minutes a game than John right now, today. My guess is we'd get no argument on that from John or Reverend Dawson. Don't expect you to be as reasonable though.

Quote from: MU82 on February 11, 2014, 11:29:11 PM
Buzz gave Dawson an 8:19 stretch today and Dawson, to be kind, was not good. I am not a huge fan of Derrick's game -- I had to give myself a Derrick moratorium back in December, and I actually stayed true to mine! -- but I was wondering if Derrick was hurt and said on a couple of occasions we needed to get Derrick back in there.

I believe in riding the hot hand. Dawson didn't have it tonight in any way, shape or form. Buzz stayed with him too long.

Now there's a critique we haven't seen often this season!

He will improve with time.  And by 'time' I mean 'playing time'.

Quote from: Ners on February 11, 2014, 11:03:21 PM
Buzz definitely knows what is being said on here...don't think he reads it personally, but gets de-briefed.  Buzz also knows I have a severe man crush on him, and even though I vehemently disagree with his take on the PG situation this year - doesn't mean I don't still have a ton of respect and admiration for him.

Sucking up to Buzz won't save you.  He wants to meet you at the Qboda at 130AM ... Says he going to make fun of your name.

How did he have 0 turnovers?  He dropped that Mayo pass late in the game; assuming possession rules give that to Mayo then?

Quote from: Warriors10 on February 12, 2014, 06:47:54 AM
How did he have 0 turnovers?  He dropped that Mayo pass late in the game; assuming possession rules give that to Mayo then?

Correct.

Quote from: jesmu84 on February 11, 2014, 11:20:28 PM
No commentary from me. Just Derrick's stats:

27 min
7 pts (2/5)
3/4 FT
2 Reb
5 Assts
0 TOs
3 PF
+18

Exactly. Derrick did his job - took care of the ball, got the ball to the hot hand, played solid D and ran the offense. I'll say it again Derrick did his job. Jamil, Gardner and Mayo are scorers, Jake is a shooter, Juan is an energy guy, Otule is a defender/rebounder, Burton is offense off the bench. Everyone has a job. Derrick did his very well last night.

Quote from: esard2011 on February 11, 2014, 10:53:46 PM
Scoop for coach of the year?

In all seriousness though if I had to guess Buzz has probably heard some fans saying things behind the bench during games. Doubt he checks scoop.

Correct.   I sit 6 rows behind MU's bench .. not a half of basketball goes by without more than one armchair quarterback yelling "Put in Dawson / Sit Derrick!"

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 12, 2014, 07:59:38 AM
Correct.   I sit 6 rows behind MU's bench .. not a half of basketball goes by without more than one armchair quarterback yelling "Put in Dawson / Sit Derrick!"

Well look at you fancy pants...no seriously you must have fancy pants to sit there....and a sweater vest  ;D ;)

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 12, 2014, 07:59:38 AM
Correct.   I sit 6 rows behind MU's bench .. not a half of basketball goes by without more than one armchair quarterback yelling "Put in Dawson / Sit Derrick!"

Don't sell this site short, Hilltopper. Buzz reads this site, everybody knows that. He may hear it behind the bench, but unlikely, he is pretty focused on the game.

Are you guys for real? He hears it plenty. He takes questions on his radio show that Homer solicits from fans for crying out loud, and that question has been asked in various forms. Not complicated. He doesn't read tis site, but that doesn't mean he lives under a rock.

If his son is asking why STJ couldn't recruit Jabari, chances are his son has or will soon be reading this site.

And when his son goes through an "I hate my parents" phase his threat will be:

"Fine! I'm moving in with Ners.  He's not idiot!"

Quote from: mu03eng on February 12, 2014, 08:10:44 AM
Well look at you fancy pants...no seriously you must have fancy pants to sit there....and a sweater vest  ;D ;)

Well .. not /directly/ behind the bench .. I'm in the corner with the rest of the not-quite-swell-enough.   :-\

Quote from: The Lens on February 12, 2014, 08:26:06 AM
If his son is asking why STJ couldn't recruit Jabari, chances are his son has or will soon be reading this site.

And when his son goes through an "I hate my parents" phase his threat will be:

"Fine! I'm moving in with Ners.  He's not idiot!"

I laughed   :D

Wilson has never been the problem. The 3G and 3 spot has been the problem. You can't have a pass first PG if your "scorers" can't score. Thomas, Juan, Mayo, JJJ, & Burton have been below average at best. I'd argue they've been awful. Thomas only shoots when he's wide open, for the most part, and he's 35% from 3. That's bad. Juan is lost and the freshman are inconsistent.

Where my criticism of buzz comes in is early season rotations. By conference time, you need to rely on 8 guys to play 85% of the time. He never established that. Had Burton & JJJ gotten early minutes over Thomas and Juan, they'd be ready right now. JJJ's defense was one of his strengths out of high school and he's a far superior player on the offensive end. Burton is a freak, and would have gained discipline on offensive end had his minutes been consistent and secure. Thomas and Juan shouldn't see the floor IMO, they aren't good enough.

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 12, 2014, 08:22:26 AM
Are you guys for real? He hears it plenty. He takes questions on his radio show that Homer solicits from fans for crying out loud, and that question has been asked in various forms. Not complicated. He doesn't read tis site, but that doesn't mean he lives under a rock.

Homer gets those question from this site!  We have a thread for this week's show going now.

And Homer tells Buzz he gets the questions from this site and reads the screen names of the questions he picks.

Quote from: jesmu84 on February 11, 2014, 11:28:48 PM
Changed my mind, kinda. Not my commentary. Buzz's...

"we had 10 turnovers in the 1H...30% of our possessions were turnovers...Why does Derrick play so much?...maybe that is solved now for a while...then in 2H we had 3 TOs"

Obviously Buzz is devoutly loyal to Derrick, and needs all the help he can get to support why he's given Derrick max minutes of any player on the team...and for Buzz...Dawson's poor play last night gave Buzz a chance to justify his otherwise head scratching decision to give Derrick 30 minutes per game.  

I have no problem saying Dawson was bad last night, far and away his worst game of his career - it happens...Derrick's served up 15+ duds this year and has had his share of dumb/careless turnovers too.  Just don't care for how Buzz was so ready to jump on John's weak performance tonight, to try to justify Derrick's minutes - when Buzz didn't muse after the Georgetown game:  Maybe I need to really re-evaluate the decision I've made with regard to how I'm handling the PG minutes.  (And then actually make a drastic change regarding the minute allocation - think Dawson got 10 after the G'Town game...certainly seemed he might have "earned" more.)

Quote from: esotericmindguy on February 12, 2014, 09:11:43 AM
Wilson has never been the problem. The 3G and 3 spot has been the problem. You can't have a pass first PG if your "scorers" can't score. Thomas, Juan, Mayo, JJJ, & Burton have been below average at best. I'd argue they've been awful. Thomas only shoots when he's wide open, for the most part, and he's 35% from 3. That's bad. Juan is lost and the freshman are inconsistent.

Where my criticism of buzz comes in is early season rotations. By conference time, you need to rely on 8 guys to play 85% of the time. He never established that. Had Burton & JJJ gotten early minutes over Thomas and Juan, they'd be ready right now. JJJ's defense was one of his strengths out of high school and he's a far superior player on the offensive end. Burton is a freak, and would have gained discipline on offensive end had his minutes been consistent and secure. Thomas and Juan shouldn't see the floor IMO, they aren't good enough.

Good start to the post, but it unraveled quickly. The frosh aren't the only ones who are inconsistent. Pretty much the whole team has been inconsistent, which is this team's primary issue. Last night Jamil looked like a lottery pick but in other games you don't even notice he's on the floor. Mayo's been all over the place. Gardner can look like DeJuan Blair or he can look completely disinterested. Jake has had 7 double-figure games and 7 games of 3 or fewer points. Juan plays really hard but can't seem to get it all together. One could make the argument that Derrick and Otule have been the team's most consistent players this season but neither is the type of player who can put the team on his back and carry everyone to a W. We're 24 games into the season and Buzz doesn't know who's going to show up on a given night. That's why he can't establish an 8-9 man rotation. If this team had 8 players who Buzz was confident would show up and make significant contributions every time they hit the floor, there would be a more set rotation.

Quote from: MU82 on February 11, 2014, 11:29:11 PM
Buzz gave Dawson an 8:19 stretch today and Dawson, to be kind, was not good. I am not a huge fan of Derrick's game -- I had to give myself a Derrick moratorium back in December, and I actually stayed true to mine! -- but I was wondering if Derrick was hurt and said on a couple of occasions we needed to get Derrick back in there.

I believe in riding the hot hand. Dawson didn't have it tonight in any way, shape or form. Buzz stayed with him too long.

Now there's a critique we haven't seen often this season!

Buzz stayed with Dawson so long because he decided to take his lumps in the first half and save Derrick for the second half by protecting him from getting a third foul.

Quote from: LittleMurs on February 12, 2014, 09:33:36 AM
Buzz stayed with Dawson so long because he decided to take his lumps in the first half and save Derrick for the second half by protecting him from getting a third foul.

And the amazing thing is that for as awful as Dawson was....and with Derrick having benefitted from Jamil opening the game en fuego on 4 of 4 from 3pt line and 14 points in the first 5 minutes of the game...Dawson's +/- for the first half was just 4 points worse than Derricks...

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 12, 2014, 08:54:46 AM
Well .. not /directly/ behind the bench .. I'm in the corner with the rest of the not-quite-swell-enough.   :-\

hey, I do sit several rows behind the bench and I wear jeans to most games.  not so 'swell', just 'mature'.

Quote from: Ners on February 12, 2014, 09:40:27 AM
And the amazing thing is that for as awful as Dawson was....and with Derrick having benefitted from Jamil opening the game en fuego on 4 of 4 from 3pt line and 14 points in the first 5 minutes of the game...Dawson's +/- for the first half was just 4 points worse than Derricks...

I'm not arguing, I'm really just asking the question.  Where do you get your +\- stats?  They'd be great to peruse for a bunch of players when I get the time.

Quote from: MU82 on February 11, 2014, 11:29:11 PM
Buzz gave Dawson an 8:19 stretch today and Dawson, to be kind, was not good. I am not a huge fan of Derrick's game -- I had to give myself a Derrick moratorium back in December, and I actually stayed true to mine! -- but I was wondering if Derrick was hurt and said on a couple of occasions we needed to get Derrick back in there.

I believe in riding the hot hand. Dawson didn't have it tonight in any way, shape or form. Buzz stayed with him too long.

Now there's a critique we haven't seen often this season!

Dawson played extensively due to D Will's early foul trouble.

Isn't the hot hand somewhat 20-20 hindsight?
As you said, J Dawson wasn't good tonight. When did we realize this? After two min? After 4 min? After the first turnover? Did Burton have a cold hand? He took a shot-missed and was pulled. If you make the first shot, have you earned additional playing time?
Mayo certainly was not hot last night, but he was given the opportunity. If We played the hot hand, Mayo should have been sitting the 2nd half of Butler not scoring 17 Pts (?).
I think it's easy to say 'play the hot hand'. Several players are given a long leash to 'get hot' and some nights that never happens. I think This team's rotation(10-11 deep) based more on scouting reports and the potential the Buzz believes can be obtained that specific game--for better or worse.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 12, 2014, 07:59:38 AM
Correct.   I sit 6 rows behind MU's bench .. not a half of basketball goes by without more than one armchair quarterback yelling "Put in Dawson / Sit Derrick!"

Probably a perk for bein' a Scoop mod, hey?

Quote from: LittleMurs on February 12, 2014, 10:51:47 AM
I'm not arguing, I'm really just asking the question.  Where do you get your +\- stats?  They'd be great to peruse for a bunch of players when I get the time.

Not sure about others, but I use Stat Sheet. You can get to the +/- by clicking on the game box scores and using the appropriately titled "Plus/Minus" tab, which is also available on the individual players' pages.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/marquette/ (http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/marquette/)

Here's my view of net points for the game

Wilson, Jamil   9.6
Gardner, Davante   7.7
Mayo, Todd    1.7
Wilson, Derrick   0.7
Johnson, JaJuan   -0.2
Burton, Deonte   -0.6
Anderson, Juan   -0.8
Otule, Chris    -0.9
Dawson, John   -2.6
Thomas, Jake   -4.0

Quote from: esotericmindguy on February 12, 2014, 09:11:43 AM
Where my criticism of buzz comes in is early season rotations. By conference time, you need to rely on 8 guys to play 85% of the time. He never established that. Had Burton & JJJ gotten early minutes over Thomas and Juan, they'd be ready right now. JJJ's defense was one of his strengths out of high school and he's a far superior player on the offensive end. Burton is a freak, and would have gained discipline on offensive end had his minutes been consistent and secure. Thomas and Juan shouldn't see the floor IMO, they aren't good enough.

You state this as if it were an absolute fact.  There is no guaranty that more minutes for JJJ and Deonte earlier on would have made them that much better now. 

I think Burton shoots out of control. Bad shots. V ery disappointing. When D-Wil plays bad we rip him or any other player.

Quote from: Earl Tatum on February 12, 2014, 11:58:29 AM
I think Burton shoots out of control. Bad shots. V ery disappointing. When D-Wil plays bad we rip him or any other player.

That was the problem though. Outside of the past couple game nobody was stepping up to take shots. It was pass the ball around the perimeter and hope Davante got free. Deonte was the one person who wasnt afraid to shoot.

Quote from: Warriors10 on February 12, 2014, 06:47:54 AM
How did he have 0 turnovers?  He dropped that Mayo pass late in the game; assuming possession rules give that to Mayo then?

Correct that is was scored to Mayo but incorrect in that it was Derrick's fault.

I would imagine Buzz has gotten dozens of emails from dissatisfied fans. One of the hazards of making your email address public.

I hope Buzz is right and people stop questioning Derrick over Dawson, Derrick certainly proved it tonight. But I'm guessing from the number of posts from a certain stubborn scooper (that I thankfully can't see), it hasn't stopped yet.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 12, 2014, 07:58:20 AM
Exactly. Derrick did his job - took care of the ball, got the ball to the hot hand, played solid D and ran the offense. I'll say it again Derrick did his job. Jamil, Gardner and Mayo are scorers, Jake is a shooter, Juan is an energy guy, Otule is a defender/rebounder, Burton is offense off the bench. Everyone has a job. Derrick did his very well last night.

Good teams with aspirations of greatness need a PG who does his job better than this.

Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2014, 02:26:28 PM
Good teams with aspirations of greatness need a PG who does his job better than this.

Yep.

And if we are content with Derrick's role, than the rest of the team needs to pick up a HUGE scoring slack.

Jake's "shooting touch" as a "shooting" guard (vs SHU, 2-7 FG, 1-6 3PT, 1-2 FT), the rest of the starting five (decent 5-8 FG, horrible 0-0 FT over 20 minutes of play), and the bench's performance (4-10 FG) need to improve greatly.

Quote from: 77ncaachamps on February 12, 2014, 02:46:49 PM
Yep.

And if we are content with Derrick's role, than the rest of the team needs to pick up a HUGE scoring slack.

Jake's "shooting touch" as a "shooting" guard (vs SHU, 2-7 FG, 1-6 3PT, 1-2 FT), the rest of the starting five (decent 5-8 FG, horrible 0-0 FT over 20 minutes of play), and the bench's performance (4-10 FG) need to improve greatly.

Don't get me started on Jake. I'm trying to be positive today.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 12, 2014, 10:58:05 AM

Probably a perk for bein' a Scoop mod, hey?

A perk that pales in comparison to being a former Season Ticket Holder of the Game.

Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2014, 02:26:28 PM
Good teams with aspirations of greatness need a PG who does his job better than this.

Yes. Teams that want to do better need better players. Derrick isn't alone in that regard.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 12, 2014, 09:33:00 AM
Good start to the post, but it unraveled quickly. The frosh aren't the only ones who are inconsistent. Pretty much the whole team has been inconsistent, which is this team's primary issue. Last night Jamil looked like a lottery pick but in other games you don't even notice he's on the floor. Mayo's been all over the place. Gardner can look like DeJuan Blair or he can look completely disinterested. Jake has had 7 double-figure games and 7 games of 3 or fewer points. Juan plays really hard but can't seem to get it all together. One could make the argument that Derrick and Otule have been the team's most consistent players this season but neither is the type of player who can put the team on his back and carry everyone to a W. We're 24 games into the season and Buzz doesn't know who's going to show up on a given night. That's why he can't establish an 8-9 man rotation. If this team had 8 players who Buzz was confident would show up and make significant contributions every time they hit the floor, there would be a more set rotation.

I'd argue that had he formed a consistent rotation by conference play this team would be better off. If this team had 8 players who Buzz was confident would show up and make significant contributions every time they hit the floor, there would be a more set rotation. Right, but you talk like rotating 11 guys is working. It isn't. They haven't beaten any team of significance, not 1 tournament team. I believe Marquette would be better off with 8 guys playing consist minutes, in hopes they'll gel and come together by conference play. I'm seeing players forcing things because they know if they don't have the "hot hand" they're getting yanked. What has Juan done in 3 years to even warrant a minute of playing time? He gets 14 a game, this isn't middle school, you don't get to play for trying hard. Thomas??? Guy scored in double figures 7 out of 24 games and 3 or less 7 out of 24 games. Guy plays 28 minutes a game and is used 13% of possessions, basically he's invisible on the court...90% of DI 2 guards can shoot 35% from 3, given the looks he receives. What has he done to deserve a 19 minute increase over last year? Try hard in practice? Don't care. D Wilson plays a bigger role on Offense, in terms of % of possessions used. If MU has a PG that won't shoot then the 2G has to score to be successful in major CBB.

Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 12, 2014, 11:46:21 AM

You state this as if it were an absolute fact.  There is no guaranty that more minutes for JJJ and Deonte earlier on would have made them that much better now. 

It's an opinion is all. Nothing is fact. Just like playing 11 guys 10 or more minutes won't factually make them better.

Buzz still hasn't formed a consistent rotation because he isn't yet gotten consistent contributions or effort.   He has flat out said that he doesn't know what he is going to get when he puts some players in.    And that he plays Jake and Derrick so much because he does know what he will get.  Playing defense to the scouting report, holding onto the ball.   If the entire team played defense to the scouting report and took care of the ball, and played hard every time out, then there would be a consistent rotation.    

Quote from: esotericmindguy on February 12, 2014, 03:36:10 PM
. It isn't. They haven't beaten any team of significance, not 1 tournament team.

umm...GW, Providence, GT.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 12, 2014, 02:55:37 PM
A perk that pales in comparison to being a former Season Ticket Holder of the Game.

wow, you're older than I had thought

Quote from: esotericmindguy on February 12, 2014, 03:36:10 PM
I'd argue that had he formed a consistent rotation by conference play this team would be better off. If this team had 8 players who Buzz was confident would show up and make significant contributions every time they hit the floor, there would be a more set rotation. Right, but you talk like rotating 11 guys is working. It isn't. They haven't beaten any team of significance, not 1 tournament team. I believe Marquette would be better off with 8 guys playing consist minutes, in hopes they'll gel and come together by conference play. I'm seeing players forcing things because they know if they don't have the "hot hand" they're getting yanked. What has Juan done in 3 years to even warrant a minute of playing time? He gets 14 a game, this isn't middle school, you don't get to play for trying hard. Thomas??? Guy scored in double figures 7 out of 24 games and 3 or less 7 out of 24 games. Guy plays 28 minutes a game and is used 13% of possessions, basically he's invisible on the court...90% of DI 2 guards can shoot 35% from 3, given the looks he receives. What has he done to deserve a 19 minute increase over last year? Try hard in practice? Don't care. D Wilson plays a bigger role on Offense, in terms of % of possessions used. If MU has a PG that won't shoot then the 2G has to score to be successful in major CBB.

Juan Anderson played very good defense on Edwin last night, that is the value he brings.  He shut Edwin down early in the game allowing MU to build up a significant lead.  Just because you don't see the value doesn't mean there isn't value.

I'm becoming convinced of two things, MU is an average team which is outside of the norm for MU and that the style of basketball we play is the most effective but also ugly.  This may seem like a "no kidding" statement but you are arguing about a consistent rotation, I suspect, because that's what your basketball experience and desire(pleases the eye) tell you to want.  However, that isn't what is best or ends in the best results.  

You are watching the sausage made and it's incongruous to how you thought sausage should be made so you don't like the sausage.  I get it, don't have an answer to it, but that doesn't mean it isn't the best way to make sausage for this batch.

Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on February 12, 2014, 03:42:12 PM
wow, you're older than I had thought

Unlikely .. '91 grad here.  They pulled my name out of the hat.

I have wondered how they picked them, seems like people are usually "a season ticket holder since the Eisenhower administration"

so this being my 1st year with season tickets means that I have a chance too?

Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on February 12, 2014, 04:00:37 PM
I have wondered how they picked them, seems like people are usually "a season ticket holder since the Eisenhower administration"

so this being my 1st year with season tickets means that I have a chance too?

Finishing our first decade as season ticket holders (including our four college years) my wife and I are hoping to see another final four before being picked out of the hat.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 12, 2014, 03:55:21 PM
Unlikely .. '91 grad here.  They pulled my name out of the hat.

No, dude, that's pretty fucking old

Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 12, 2014, 03:29:26 PM

Yes. Teams that want to do better need better players. Derrick isn't alone in that regard.

Lumping the PG in with other positions is almost like lumping a quarterback with a receiver or lineman.

Yes, the Texans needed others to play better last season. But regardless, they were hamstrung by Matt Schaub's inadequate play in most games.

That isn't a good analogy. A point guard is obviously important but it's not necessarily the most important position on a basketball team. For instance very few of the top paid nba players are points. Derrick could definitely be a point guard on a top 20 team, but you would have to see vast upgrades at the 2 and 3 positions.  Derrick is shouldering too much blame for a team that lacks talent.

Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 12, 2014, 04:48:01 PM
No, dude, that's pretty unnatural carnal knowledgeing old

Get off my lawn.

Sultan

PG make other guys better, much a like a great QB. No Rodgers and the Pack lost. You give MU a high level D1 PG the talent level rises with current players. Even Jake would benefit from a PG that can play in transition and do it with speed. I actually think it was a great analogy.

Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on February 12, 2014, 04:00:37 PM
I have wondered how they picked them, seems like people are usually "a season ticket holder since the Eisenhower administration"

I always swore they made that thing up and just took a couple people from the nursing home to give the award to.  There was no way there could possibly be that many season ticket holders since 1958 to honor!  :P

Quote from: Goose on February 12, 2014, 07:34:17 PM
Sultan

PG make other guys better, much a like a great QB. No Rodgers and the Pack lost. You give MU a high level D1 PG the talent level rises with current players. Even Jake would benefit from a PG that can play in transition and do it with speed. I actually think it was a great analogy.

And Derrick would look better with better scorers around him.

Look I am not arguing that pg isn't important, but it is not as important as the qb in football. Again if that were the case point guards would be the highest paid players on the court.  That is why it isn't a good analogy.

Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 12, 2014, 09:23:34 PM

And Derrick would look better with better scorers around him.

Look I am not arguing that pg isn't important, but it is not as important as the qb in football. Again if that were the case point guards would be the highest paid players on the court.  That is why it isn't a good analogy.

In college basketball the pg position is very important. Much more so than in the NBA in my opinion. A good pg will keep his team in almost every game and really impacts the game more than any other position, especially at the college level.

Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 12, 2014, 06:54:36 PM
That isn't a good analogy. A point guard is obviously important but it's not necessarily the most important position on a basketball team. For instance very few of the top paid nba players are points. Derrick could definitely be a point guard on a top 20 team, but you would have to see vast upgrades at the 2 and 3 positions.  Derrick is shouldering too much blame for a team that lacks talent.

Derrick is the point guard on a team that is definitely not top 20. That is a fact. I need only show you the Marquette Warriors, who have Derrick and are not a top 20 team.

"Derrick could definitely be a point guard on a top 20 team." That is an opinion.
If you'd like to prove your opinion to be factually based, please show me a top-20 team in the nation right now that has a 30 mpg PG who averages 5 points while shooting .083 from 3-point range and .492 from the FT line.

Thank you.

Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2014, 09:39:30 PM
Derrick is the point guard on a team that is definitely not top 20. That is a fact. I need only show you the Marquette Warriors, who have Derrick and are not a top 20 team.

"Derrick could definitely be a point guard on a top 20 team." That is an opinion.
If you'd like to prove your opinion to be factually based, please show me a top-20 team in the nation right now that has a 30 mpg PG who averages 5 points while shooting .083 from 3-point range and .492 from the FT line.

Thank you.

It is an opinion...  I think that if you put better scorers around him, he could be the PG on a top 20 team. 

I don't have time to sift through polls to see if that opinion has factually based precedent.  So if you disagree with me, you disagree with me.

Quote from: Goose on February 12, 2014, 07:34:17 PM
Sultan

PG make other guys better, much a like a great QB. No Rodgers and the Pack lost. You give MU a high level D1 PG the talent level rises with current players. Even Jake would benefit from a PG that can play in transition and do it with speed. I actually think it was a great analogy.

It was a brutal analogy. Sure, like a QB, a PG can make everyone else better...but so can a post player or a shooting guard or a "switchable." Basically any of the 5 players on the basketball court can be the engine that makes the team go. When is the last time you heard of any football player other than a QB described as having the ability to make everyone else better?

You know who made everyone else better for MU last season? Vander Blue. The years before that? Crowder and DJO. Some others at MU: Lazar Hayward, Jimmy Butler, Jerel McNeal, Steve Novak, Travis Diener, Dwyane Wade. All PGs, right?

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 13, 2014, 12:45:07 PM
It was a brutal analogy. Sure, like a QB, a PG can make everyone else better...but so can a post player or a shooting guard or a "switchable." Basically any of the 5 players on the basketball court can be the engine that makes the team go. When is the last time you heard of any football player other than a QB described as having the ability to make everyone else better?

You know who made everyone else better for MU last season? Vander Blue. The years before that? Crowder and DJO. Some others at MU: Lazar Hayward, Jimmy Butler, Jerel McNeal, Steve Novak, Travis Diener, Dwyane Wade. All PGs, right?

Travis led us to the NIT his junior and senior seasons. Junior C led us to the Sweet 16 and the Elite 8. An elite point guard is great to have but it's no guarantee.

Does no one pay attention to our games?  Just in the last 2 we have been down 6-10 points in the 2nd half and all of sudden the defense gets ratcheted up, starts creating transition opportunities and turns deficits into leads.  Notice who is on the court then?  I bet if you asked Buzz, he would say Jake and Derrick are the foundation of his defensive game plan.

Quote from: The Lens on February 13, 2014, 12:57:42 PM
Does no one pay attention to our games?  Just in the last 2 we have been down 6-10 points in the 2nd half and all of sudden the defense gets ratcheted up, starts creating transition opportunities and turns deficits into leads.  Notice who is on the court then?  I bet if you asked Buzz, he would say Jake and Derrick are the foundation of his defensive game plan.

but... POINTS! SCORERS! SHOOTERS!

Quote from: jesmu84 on February 13, 2014, 01:07:26 PM
but... POINTS! SCORERS! SHOOTERS!

Sorry--some of those guys were on the court when we were down 6-10 points. Did you notice that also? Kind of meaningless, just like the +/- stat.

Quote from: The Lens on February 13, 2014, 12:57:42 PM
Does no one pay attention to our games?  Just in the last 2 we have been down 6-10 points in the 2nd half and all of sudden the defense gets ratcheted up, starts creating transition opportunities and turns deficits into leads.  Notice who is on the court then?  I bet if you asked Buzz, he would say Jake and Derrick are the foundation of his defensive game plan.

It's a nice step. Talk to me again after Xavier and Creighton.

Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2014, 02:03:00 PM
It's a nice step. Talk to me again after Xavier and Creighton.

I agree.  We were not playing the Thunder & Heat.

Quote from: The Lens on February 13, 2014, 02:42:00 PM
I agree.  We were not playing the Thunder & Heat.

Or even the Musketeers and Bluejays.

I doubt Buzz reads this site but I also doubt he is not briefed on the tone and tenor of wisdom from the blogosphere. Frankly, if Buzz would just read this site we are likely unbeaten today. He ignores us at his own peril. It's his career, I guess.