This season is in it's 11th hour...Mayo brings to the court something this team needs...someone who WANTS to be THE MAN, someone who is willing to take the BIG shots, and someone who WANTS the ball when the game is on the line.
If we're looking for our Kemba Walker...he's wearing #4 for the Warriors.
I'm all for it. But I want to see him be more consistent away from the BC.
Couldn't agree more. He has shown the ability to be someone we can count on for scoring when needed (which is all the time)
Funny how fast we forget how horrible he played Saturday. He has played great in certain games this year though. Wouldn't have won without him tonight. Maybe starting would help his consistency ?
He just needs to get touches and looks and get off to the right start. Streaky player but if we can get him started early he can score 20 a game if he is playing 30mpg. He's never been consistent though. Hopefully this game convinces Buzz to start him and give around 25-30mpg. Worth a shot next game since we are always trying new rotations.
When someone can do what he did tonight and against Nova, got to throw your cards down and ride him. If we get another 0-1 FG 2 PF 4 TO in 12 minutes, we have to still commit to 15+ more minutes that game, and then again a couple more games in a row and see what happens.
Every player on this team has forgettable moments, I'll take Mayo and everything he brings to the table. It's go time
Showed what he can do if given the minutes. He is our quickest with the ball and when he ran in transition things happened.
Quote from: warriorstrack on February 04, 2014, 10:36:41 PM
Every player on this team has forgettable moments, I'll take Mayo and everything he brings to the table. It's go time
Its Go time. Go with Mayo. He can take us to March!
Quote from: elephantraker on February 04, 2014, 10:39:01 PM
Showed what he can do if given the minutes. He is our quickest with the ball and when he ran in transition things happened.
If he can play smart/in control like tonight, I'd give him time at PG. Jake/JJJ/Dawson at SG. Jake/JJJ/Jamil at SF. Burton/Jamil/STJ at PF. Gardner/Otule at C.
Inconsistent minutes and short leash leads to inconsistent production. Buzz needs to take the shackles off Todd and let him play 30 every night, regardless of if he appears to have/not have the now famous "hot hand." I'd specuate that Bad Mayo in 30 will meet what "good Jake" is in 30. Perhaps as we saw tonight some benefit playing them together - could be really good if our PG was any threat to successfully shoot 3's..
It's no secret to any color analyst who our most talented perimeter player is - Mayo. Raff has always been high on Todd, as have other color guys. There's been no reason all year for Todd to have not gotten 30 minutes per..
Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 10:48:21 PM
There's been no reason all year for Todd to have not gotten 30 minutes per..
There must have been a lot of hate woodies among the coaching staff.
Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 10:48:21 PM
Inconsistent minutes and short leash leads to inconsistent production. Buzz needs to take the shackles off Todd and let him play 30 every night, regardless of if he appears to have/not have the now famous "hot hand." I'd specuate that Bad Mayo in 30 will meet what "good Jake" is in 30. Perhaps as we saw tonight some benefit playing them together - could be really good if our PG was any threat to successfully shoot 3's..
It's no secret to any color analyst who our most talented perimeter player is - Mayo. Raff has always been high on Todd, as have other color guys. There's been no reason all year for Todd to have not gotten 30 minutes per..
Derrick played well tonite - 5 steals and 8 assists. He is only an effective PG if there are guys who want to shoot the ball. He was most effective with Mayo, Jake, & Burton on the floor.
Quote from: brandx on February 04, 2014, 10:52:42 PM
Derrick played well tonite - 5 steals and 8 assists. He is only an effective PG if there are guys who want to shoot the ball. He was most effective with Mayo, Jake, & Burton on the floor.
Derrick was serviceable tonight...because he was good defensively. Leaves a lot to be desired on offensive end. Butler wasn't guarding him on perimeter at all. His assists were primarily to jump shooters. If he were a threat to shoot effectively from the 3...him paired with Todd and Jake could be really dangerous. It worked well as it was, even with Butler knowing Derrick wouldn't shoot...they still couldn't stop Todd...and Jake though 1 of 6 from the field still gets respect as a shooter.
This win was a direct result of Todd Mayo's talent/brilliance...he's shown us plenty of flashes of the same in his MU career thus far. Now hopefully he gets 30 minutes a game consistently moving forward..
I expect Buzz go with Mayo. The "if" part of Mayo is a confidence issue. When he just plays focused and does not think first he is at his best which is outstanding.
Quote from: Class71 on February 04, 2014, 11:05:17 PM
I expect Buzz go with Mayo. The "if" part of Mayo is a confidence issue. When he just plays focused and does not think first he is at his best which is outstanding.
Personally, I don't think confidence is an issue for Mayo. He makes bonehead plays from time to time, but at this point, I'll take the good with the bad.
The thing that people and even Buzz don't see is bad Todd is really only regarding dumb turnovers. Usually do to inconsistent PT.
When he is in rythmn with extended minutes(as he told buzz) he is electric.
Since Jamil can't seem to consistently be the guy. Todd should shoot, and shoot often.
That's the difference right there. Bad Jamil is a lot of bricks, bad Todd doesn't(typically) have god awful shooting games.
He needs to start. Even though he has the hard look down, I think needs the confidence that comes with the green light. His best performances have come when the staff tells him to go get buckets, because the team badly needed someone to do it. Run him out there from the start, and let him get cooking.
He's also the only wing player they have that knows how to get to the rim. He used screens, and read traffic beautifully in the second half.
Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 11:00:18 PM
Butler wasn't guarding him on perimeter at all. His assists were primarily to jump shooters.
I agree about his assists basically perimeter to perimeter where the receiver shoots or drives.
An odd advantage of Derrick being unguarded all the time is that against pressure defense he is always open for an outlet pass. Several times last night we dribbled into trouble and were able to pass to a wide open Derrick.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 05, 2014, 08:11:52 AM
I agree about his assists basically perimeter to perimeter where the receiver shoots or drives.
An odd advantage of Derrick being unguarded all the time is that against pressure defense he is always open for an outlet pass. Several times last night we dribbled into trouble and were able to pass to a wide open Derrick.
I know one of Derrick's assists was on a fast break...another was him coming off a screen. Both passes were where they needed to be, when they needed to be there. Can't ask more of him than that.
Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 11:00:18 PM
Derrick was serviceable tonight...because he was good defensively. Leaves a lot to be desired on offensive end. Butler wasn't guarding him on perimeter at all. His assists were primarily to jump shooters.
As I was drinking my coffee this morning, I said to myself "I bet Ners is going to find a way to downgrade Derrick's assists."
Good to see you are predictable.
It all fits so well into your narrative. When the offense is performing poorly, its Derrick's fault. When the offense is performing well, despite statistical evidence to the contrary, Derrick gets no credit.
(Eagerly awaiting 3FG and FT percentage stats...)
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 05, 2014, 08:16:49 AM
As I was drinking my coffee this morning, I said to myself "I bet Ners is going to find a way to downgrade Derrick's assists."
Good to see you are predictable.
It all fits so well into your narrative. When the offense is performing poorly, its Derrick's fault. When the offense is performing well, despite statistical evidence to the contrary, Derrick gets no credit.
(Eagerly awaiting 3FG and FT percentage stats...)
It is easy for even the most basic basketball fan to see that Derrick adds little to no value on the offensive end. Out of those 8 assists ( courtesy of some friendly BC scoring) 2 were actually where he created something for his teammates. The 8 assists were pretty hollow if you ask me. But his defense was pretty good.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 05, 2014, 08:16:49 AM
As I was drinking my coffee this morning, I said to myself "I bet Ners is going to find a way to downgrade Derrick's assists."
Good to see you are predictable.
It all fits so well into your narrative. When the offense is performing poorly, its Derrick's fault. When the offense is performing well, despite statistical evidence to the contrary, Derrick gets no credit.
(Eagerly awaiting 3FG and FT percentage stats...)
FG%, 3pt FG%, FT% all matter a great deal...
and derrick was serviceable last night. teams have stopped sending derrick's defender after DG (depending on spacing) because DG got better at working out of the double. chris can't pass as well, and it was difficult to have both on the court at the same time.
it is what it is, and dawson and derrick should split much of the time imho, but to act like derrick was anything more than serviceable in any game he's ever played is ridiculous. if we had that type of play from all 5 positions we'd lose a lot of games with a score of about 30 - 40. it's our weakest position, and that's been well noted by many. his growth has been very limited, and his defense has not been as consistent as it needs to be for him to be considered an elite level defender...i think his height will always be an issue there. i think we should be playing dawson more, you point out buzz knows more than me (no sh!t), and i point out that buzz hasn't been winning much this year. the game in which dawson had a huge hand in helping us win, derrick kept himself out of the game, so i'm not sure that points to buzz have a solid grasp on the position either. many on this board ripped me over the summer when i said his ceiling was that of junior's (i now wish), and said he'd be better than junior (buzz said he should have been the starter last year, blah blah blah). my concern continues to be his ceiling. dawson's is much higher, so with the minimal production we're getting from derrick, i'd rather see dawson get more minutes. if you want to make the argument that wilson needs more minutes when the opposing team has a stud pg, i could see that, but if we're playing derrick at pg for the majority of minutes next year...we're in trouble.
Watching Mayo the last 10+ minutes of the game, I felt like every time he would get the ball in the weave, he was going to look to create and he seemed to each time he touched it. That doesn't always seem to be his mentality but it was last night. We need that thought process from him every game.
Watching Burton, he's got the same mentality, but with Todd, his creativeness also includes passing to open players. When DB gets the ball, my son and I look at each other and say, "shot's going up". Raf even said a couple times last night, Deonte should've passed as someone was open (specifically DG one time). But it's still nice to see someone taking the ball to the hole like he does.
Quote from: brandx on February 04, 2014, 10:52:42 PM
He is only an effective PG if there are guys who want to shoot the ball. He was most effective with Mayo, Jake, & Burton on the floor.
Probably the most astute observation of DW's game. You can tolerate DW and no JT. You can tolerate JT and no DW. But you can not, for all that is decent and holy, tolerate them both at the same time.
But again, Todd just proved last night why college hoops is a guard's game. Period. Bigs are nice and you need them, but you ain't winning jack without solid guard play in the form of scoring from your 2, and ball control, good D, and a command of the floor from your point (scoring or no scoring).
Quote from: avid1010 on February 05, 2014, 08:45:06 AM
FG%, 3pt FG%, FT% all matter a great deal...
and derrick was serviceable last night. teams have stopped sending derrick's defender after DG (depending on spacing) because DG got better at working out of the double. chris can't pass as well, and it was difficult to have both on the court at the same time.
it is what it is, and dawson and derrick should split much of the time imho, but to act like derrick was anything more than serviceable in any game he's ever played is ridiculous.
See I don't disagree with that. I have never disagreed with that. I have used the phrase "average at best" to describe Derrick.
But see it is so very Scoop to say "well, those assists weren't good assists." Well OK. But I can guaranty you that if Dawson was the one dishing out the 8 assists, we would get a never ending series of posts about the flow that Dawson brings to the offense, etc. etc. etc.
Undoubtedly Mayo is the single biggest reason Marquette won last night. I would argue that Otule and Jamil were the next two reasons. But Derrick deserves credit both for the perimeter defense he played during the run, and for the fact that he got the ball where it needed to be and when it needed to be there. Not *all* of those assists were due to generous scorekeeping and passes to Mayo on the perimeter.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on February 05, 2014, 08:46:04 AM
Watching Burton, he's got the same mentality, but with Todd, his creativeness also includes passing to open players.
I had the opposite feeling of Burton. I feel like once he gets the ball, he is taking some wild floater or a shot too early in the sequence. Love his game, just wish it was a little more under control.
I am guessing the control thing will come with more experience.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 05, 2014, 08:13:29 AM
I know one of Derrick's assists was on a fast break...another was him coming off a screen. Both passes were where they needed to be, when they needed to be there. Can't ask more of him than that.
Sorry dude - those assists were passes a basic 8th grade point guard could execute...and lets face it...since Derrick never looks to shoot...he should always be looking to pass. Derrick didn't create any of the looks for his teammates through his penetration - they were simple basketball plays. Now, if you want to trumpet the brilliance of his ability to execute a two-hand chest pass to the logical person to pass the ball to...by all means....go ahead.
Quote from: Ners on February 05, 2014, 09:31:35 AM
Sorry dude - those assists were passes a basic 8th grade point guard could execute...
Keep fighting the good fight Ners!!!
Quote from: Ners on February 05, 2014, 09:31:35 AM
Sorry dude - those assists were passes a basic 8th grade point guard could execute...and lets face it...since Derrick never looks to shoot...he should always be looking to pass. Derrick didn't create any of the looks for his teammates through his penetration - they were simple basketball plays. Now, if you want to trumpet the brilliance of his ability to execute a two-hand chest pass to the logical person to pass the ball to...by all means....go ahead.
Ners has reached the point where his posts read like a parody of himself.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 05, 2014, 09:38:57 AM
Ners has reached the point where his posts read like a parody of himself.
We could get Will Farrell to play him in the movie.
Quote from: robmufan on February 05, 2014, 09:30:21 AM
I had the opposite feeling of Burton. I feel like once he gets the ball, he is taking some wild floater or a shot too early in the sequence. Love his game, just wish it was a little more under control.
I am guessing the control thing will come with more experience.
The control thing will get better with time. I remember J McNeal being the same way offensively as a freshmen and by his junior year he was an efficient scorer. Many freshmen go through this. You can see the talent and ability, he just makes poor decisions sometimes and has trouble finishing at times.
Defensively Burton has a long way to go and is the anti McNeal, but offensively as freshmen, they are similar in terms of wild shots and turning the ball over.
Mayo is a really interesting player. When his/our back(s) are against the wall, he seems to lock in, crave the ball, and get in a scoring zone at a level of few others in a Marquette uniform during the 21st century. Several examples over the years. @UW his freshman year, looked like the only player that belonged on the court vs. UF in the tournament, ice cold shot @GTown, end of regulation vs. Nova, second half last night. Then he has games where he looks passive, disinterested, and is a liability on both sides of the ball. We have to loook no further back than four days ago, when he went for zero points and 4 turnovers against St. John's, registering an ORtg of 0. ZERO. That's as bad as it gets. He has never been able to consistently produce the the level we all would like.
If Todd can play like his back is against the wall for the rest of the season (because it is), he's exactly the element we need to turn it around. I will believe it when I see it consistently, but I hope he gets the opportunity to prove it to all of us because I don't think we have a chance otherwise.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 05, 2014, 09:35:59 AM
Keep fighting the good fight Ners!!!
Thanks Sultan - And I'm glad you didn't try to disagree. They were 8th grade level...doesn't take away from the fact he made them...but let's not get too excited.
And what's your thought on using +/- as a stat analysis in that last night Mayo was +4 and Derrick was +11 for the night?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 05, 2014, 09:38:57 AM
Ners has reached the point where his posts read like a parody of himself.
LOL - I find your continued belief that Derrick is the best option at PG for this team to be equally comical.
Quote from: Ners on February 05, 2014, 09:31:35 AM
Sorry dude - those assists were passes a basic 8th grade point guard could execute...and lets face it...since Derrick never looks to shoot...he should always be looking to pass. Derrick didn't create any of the looks for his teammates through his penetration - they were simple basketball plays. Now, if you want to trumpet the brilliance of his ability to execute a two-hand chest pass to the logical person to pass the ball to...by all means....go ahead.
I'll make you a deal.
If you honor your Derrick moratorium until the end of this season, I'll take a season long vacation from scoop in 2014-2015.
The mods can ban me for the season.
But, you can't type his name, his number, his initials, or imply anything about Derrick, or allude to anything with the MU PG.
Deal?
Quote from: hairyworthen on February 05, 2014, 09:53:00 AM
The control thing will get better with time. I remember J McNeal being the same way offensively as a freshmen and by his junior year he was an efficient scorer. Many freshmen go through this. You can see the talent and ability, he just makes poor decisions sometimes and has trouble finishing at times.
Defensively Burton has a long way to go and is the anti McNeal, but offensively as freshmen, they are similar in terms of wild shots and turning the ball over.
Actually I feel like he's much closer to McNeal defensively than you might think. McNeal was a gambler, shooting gaps for steals trying to turn defense into offense. He thrived in the system those years because that's what our defense was designed to do: get deflections and turn those live ball turnovers into transition baskets. He was never a great positional/lock down defender like DJames was his senior year. Deonte leads our team in steal% at 5.5, which is eerily reminiscent of the 5.1 McNeal registered in his BEast DPOY sophomore campaign. The difference is, this defense is designed to be more of a contain defense, rather than pressure the wings/shoot the gaps type defense. I feel that Deonte has very similar traits/instincts to McNeal on both sides of the ball. With a team leading shot% of 31.1 again eerily reminiscent of McNeal's team leading 29.6 his sophomore year, it shows neither one is/was shy about shooting, even when they just made a boneheaded play. I actually really like that about him, I think it projects a very nice career if he follows a similar progression as McNeal.
Quote from: Ners on February 05, 2014, 10:16:27 AM
And what's your thought on using +/- as a stat analysis in that last night Mayo was +4 and Derrick was +11 for the night?
From what I saw, I think at has some basis in reality. I found Mayo to be inconsistent within the game. He (and many others) did not play well for the first 25 minutes. I have not seen the stats by each half, but suspect they would support it. I'm glad he kicked into gear, but he did not play a full game at that high level.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on February 05, 2014, 10:24:19 AM
Actually I feel like he's much closer to McNeal defensively than you might think. McNeal was a gambler, shooting gaps for steals trying to turn defense into offense. He thrived in the system those years because that's what our defense was designed to do: get deflections and turn those live ball turnovers into transition baskets. He was never a great positional/lock down defender like DJames was his senior year. Deonte leads our team in steal% at 5.5, which is eerily reminiscent of the 5.1 McNeal registered in his BEast DPOY sophomore campaign. The difference is, this defense is designed to be more of a contain defense, rather than pressure the wings/shoot the gaps type defense. I feel that Deonte has very similar traits/instincts to McNeal on both sides of the ball. With a team leading shot% of 31.1 again eerily reminiscent of McNeal's team leading 29.6 his sophomore year, it shows neither one is/was shy about shooting, even when they just made a boneheaded play. I actually really like that about him, I think it projects a very nice career if he follows a similar progression as McNeal.
Agree,
Except McNeal was much better at defensive positioning, knowing where to be, rotations, than Burton is. Some of it is the type of defense Crean played then, yes.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 05, 2014, 10:17:41 AM
I'll make you a deal.
If you honor your Derrick moratorium until the end of this season, I'll take a season long vacation from scoop in 2014-2015.
The mods can ban me for the season.
But, you can't type his name, his number, his initials, or imply anything about Derrick, or allude to anything with the MU PG.
Deal?
Guns is jumping on a grenade for scoop....character revealed ;D
Quote from: Archies Bat on February 05, 2014, 10:26:33 AM
From what I saw, I think at has some basis in reality. I found Mayo to be inconsistent within the game. He (and many others) did not play well for the first 25 minutes. I have not seen the stats by each half, but suspect they would support it. I'm glad he kicked into gear, but he did not play a full game at that high level.
+1
Mayo was -5 in the first half. He played 9 minutes, didn't take a shot and had 2 assists, a steal and a rebound. He was amazing down the stretch but that doesn't erase his first half.
Derrick, on the other hand, was even in the first half and played all but 1 minute in a second half where MU outscored Butler by 9 (he was +11).
Quote from: Ners on February 05, 2014, 10:16:27 AM
Thanks Sultan - And I'm glad you didn't try to disagree. They were 8th grade level...doesn't take away from the fact he made them...but let's not get too excited.
Oh I disagree. But your arguments get more comical by the week.
No real point in talking to you about it any longer.
I say our best chance to win is in transition. Can't post up or shoot with consistency anyway, WTF? Gotta get the easy bunnies, hey?
How did his became YET ANOTHER FUCKING THREAD ABOUT DERRICK/DAWSON!?!?!? SERIOUSLY
Ahem...
Back to the topic on hand, Mayo already is a starter. He plays the fifth amount of minutes on the team. I do agree that his minutes should increase after this performance.
Quote from: hairyworthen on February 05, 2014, 09:53:00 AM
The control thing will get better with time. I remember J McNeal being the same way offensively as a freshmen and by his junior year he was an efficient scorer. Many freshmen go through this. You can see the talent and ability, he just makes poor decisions sometimes and has trouble finishing at times.
Defensively Burton has a long way to go and is the anti McNeal, but offensively as freshmen, they are similar in terms of wild shots and turning the ball over.
i was thinking the exact same thing, but i loved both of them at that stage of their game because you knew it would get better, and you also knew they had a toughness to attack that rim that others did not. in a year where it seems we'd be extremely lucky to get to the NCAA tourney, i'd love to see more minutes for the freshmen to grow in BEAST game settings.