You learn a lot in your life from your failures....this year will make him wiser and help him keep his fighting edge that was so pervasive with the Hayward senior year team that epitomized a Buzz Williams coached team.
I think he wrote off the freshmen too early (even as early as the summer) and thought he didn't have to get them ready to be contributors from day one and could instead ease them in and rely on his veterans to step up and improve and perform like past MU veterans did. Of course the later didn't happen and just now the freshmen are finally getting their extended growing pain minutes and if they had them from day one the team would be trending up now instead of down.
Hopefully he'll point back to this year as the most important coaching year of his career as he had to learn to deal with adversity and failure which is much more challenging than dealing with chronic back patting. It will speak measures about Buzz Williams and this future core of players if they come out fighting the rest of the season and a year from now we're back in our typical Top 15 February ranking.
Go Marquette! Go Buzz!
Quote from: The Sultan of Silly on February 01, 2014, 02:01:20 PM
You learn a lot in your life from your failures....this year will make him wiser and help him keep his fighting edge that was so pervasive with the Hayward senior year team that epitomized a Buzz Williams coached team.
I think he wrote off the freshmen too early (even as early as the summer) and thought he didn't have to get them ready to be contributors from day one and could instead ease them in and rely on his veterans to step up and improve and perform like past MU veterans did. Of course the later didn't happen and just now the freshmen are finally getting their extended growing pain minutes and if they had them from day one the team would be trending up now instead of down.
Hopefully he'll point back to this year as the most important coaching year of his career as he had to learn to deal with adversity and failure which is much more challenging than dealing with chronic back patting. It will speak measures about Buzz Williams and this future core of players if they come out fighting the rest of the season and a year from now we're back in our typical Top 15 February ranking.
Go Marquette! Go Buzz!
Normally, I haven't agreed with much that you've said, but I actually liked this post, Silly. Well said.
I totally agree. This has been a painfully frustrating season and I have a hard time understanding why we have so many deficiencies. With that said, I evaluate Buzz over his tenure at MU not just one bad season. Let's not forget he's a young coach and will learn. Keep the faith; things will get better.
I hope so.
I think that he won't change in his core but will learn how to temper expectations and deal with adversity with the lack of senior leadership.
I expect him to kick some arse after getting his arse kicked this season. That stuff motivates and drives a guy like Buzz.
Quote from: The Sultan of Silly on February 01, 2014, 02:01:20 PM
You learn a lot in your life from your failures....this year will make him wiser and help him keep his fighting edge that was so pervasive with the Hayward senior year team that epitomized a Buzz Williams coached team.
I think he wrote off the freshmen too early (even as early as the summer) and thought he didn't have to get them ready to be contributors from day one and could instead ease them in and rely on his veterans to step up and improve and perform like past MU veterans did. Of course the later didn't happen and just now the freshmen are finally getting their extended growing pain minutes and if they had them from day one the team would be trending up now instead of down.
Hopefully he'll point back to this year as the most important coaching year of his career as he had to learn to deal with adversity and failure which is much more challenging than dealing with chronic back patting. It will speak measures about Buzz Williams and this future core of players if they come out fighting the rest of the season and a year from now we're back in our typical Top 15 February ranking.
Go Marquette! Go Buzz!
Great post, couldn't agree more.
I have been critical of Buzz this year, but I think he will be better for it and it will make the program much better. It is just difficult to watch because Buzz has spoiled us up to this point.
I agree.
Great post. A positive and honest way to think about how this season and how it may impact the future.
I wish we could make this post the headline of the Scoop. Some posters seriously need to just relax and enjoy the journey of this team.
Yup. Totally agree.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on February 01, 2014, 03:07:24 PM
I wish we could make this post the headline of the Scoop. Some posters seriously need to just relax and enjoy the journey of this team.
Enjoy what exactly? If they were fun to watch, and lost a bunch of close games, it'd be one thing. For the most part, they have to make games rock fights to be competitive. That's not enjoyable.
The only part of the journey of this season I'll enjoy is the end of it.
I think we should let Dylan Flood play 30 minutes one game. End the Wilson/Dawson argument and let's let the Flood show begin.
Quote from: The Sultan of Silly on February 01, 2014, 02:01:20 PM
You learn a lot in your life from your failures....this year will make him wiser and help him keep his fighting edge that was so pervasive with the Hayward senior year team that epitomized a Buzz Williams coached team.
I think he wrote off the freshmen too early (even as early as the summer) and thought he didn't have to get them ready to be contributors from day one and could instead ease them in and rely on his veterans to step up and improve and perform like past MU veterans did. Of course the later didn't happen and just now the freshmen are finally getting their extended growing pain minutes and if they had them from day one the team would be trending up now instead of down.
Hopefully he'll point back to this year as the most important coaching year of his career as he had to learn to deal with adversity and failure which is much more challenging than dealing with chronic back patting. It will speak measures about Buzz Williams and this future core of players if they come out fighting the rest of the season and a year from now we're back in our typical Top 15 February ranking.
Go Marquette! Go Buzz!
I wholeheartedly agree.
I bet one thing he'll learn is to try to get a point in every recruiting class.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 03, 2014, 02:55:54 PM
I bet one thing he'll learn is to try to get a point in every recruiting class.
He's come pretty close...
2009: Junior Cadougan
2010: Reggie Smith
2011: Derrick Wilson
2013: Duane Wilson & John Dawson
Thought Larry was in charge of this.
so 50% is good?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 03, 2014, 02:59:42 PM
He's come pretty close...
2009: Junior Cadougan
2010: Reggie Smith
2011: Derrick Wilson
2013: Duane Wilson & John Dawson
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 03, 2014, 03:20:26 PM
so 50% is good?
miles said that Buzz should get a PG in every recruiting class. He brought in 5 PGs in a 5-year span. How do you get 50% out of that?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 03, 2014, 03:36:39 PM
miles said that Buzz should get a PG in every recruiting class. He brought in 5 PGs in a 5-year span. How do you get 50% out of that?
I think he's throwing out Reggie Smith and Derrick Wilson, thus two of the four years.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on February 03, 2014, 08:04:16 PM
I think he's throwing out Reggie Smith and Derrick Wilson, thus two of the four years.
I remember when I first made the maths
PG's make the team roll and you need to recruit them hard. Thus far he has not recruited a PG that is a game changer and that has been problem. For years a PG could be tough and smart and that was all that was needed. In today's game you need a PG that is athletic, talented, can push the ball and score in transition. The last five years we have not seen that in our PG play.
Quote from: Goose on February 04, 2014, 07:34:26 AM
PG's make the team roll and you need to recruit them hard. Thus far he has not recruited a PG that is a game changer and that has been problem. For years a PG could be tough and smart and that was all that was needed. In today's game you need a PG that is athletic, talented, can push the ball and score in transition. The last five years we have not seen that in our PG play.
Which is the primary reason why MU has struggled so much over those 5 years ::)
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on February 03, 2014, 08:04:16 PM
I think he's throwing out Reggie Smith and Derrick Wilson, thus two of the four years.
Can you imagine where this team would be without Derrick and with Jamil running the point this season?!
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 08:19:34 AM
Can you imagine where this team would be without Derrick and with Jamil running the point this season?!
Yeah, we'd be 22-0 with Magic Dawson running the point and averaging 30-10-15 on the year.
Merritt
The program has done very well over the past five years and no complaints here. Point is that to win the NC a high level PG is needed. Would have to believe that if I want us to NC Buzz does as well. The PG's the past five years were not up to that task.
Quote from: Goose on February 04, 2014, 08:49:43 AM
Merritt
The program has done very well over the past five years and no complaints here. Point is that to win the NC a high level PG is needed. Would have to believe that if I want us to NC Buzz does as well. The PG's the past five years were not up to that task.
Were the post players and other perimeter players up to that task? PG was the only thing preventing this team from winning a National Championship?
But they were up to the task of a 60-30 big east record, 8 tournament wins, sweet 16-sweet 16-elite 8. Which doesn't exactly suck. I am sure that Buzz is learning as we type. I'm sure he is teaching, too.
I agree with Goose's general thesis: If Buzz could bring in a truly dynamic PG -- a Shane Larkin or Tyler Ennis type -- it would make those fine, athletic switchables and the occasional talented big that much better.
It doesn't mean Buzz can't win without a Larkin, and I don't believe Goose (or any other intelligent observer) ever said that. Because we have had a nice run under Buzz without one.
It just means that such a PG could take us to the next level -- and isn't that what it's supposed to be about?
An elite PG does make everyone around him better. So does an elite shooter. So does an elite big. Next year, assuming no changes(of course there will be roster turnover, I just refuse to engage in that speculation) , I see Derrick, Dawson, Duane, Cohen, and possibly Hill as players who have played the point at some point. NN is in the offing. All any coach can do is get the best players he is able to and coach them up. On paper, going into the season, there was plenty of talent at all positions. Injury to Duane, injury to Taylor, McKay walks and the rest of the pieces haven't quite meshed.
Quote from: MU82 on February 04, 2014, 09:00:25 AM
I agree with Goose's general thesis: If Buzz could bring in a truly dynamic PG -- a Shane Larkin or Tyler Ennis type -- it would make those fine, athletic switchables and the occasional talented big that much better.
It doesn't mean Buzz can't win without a Larkin, and I don't believe Goose (or any other intelligent observer) ever said that. Because we have had a nice run under Buzz without one.
It just means that such a PG could take us to the next level -- and isn't that what it's supposed to be about?
Hardly a revelation that having a point guard who will play 10 years in the NBA (Larkin, Ennis) would help us (or any) team. We don't have that kind of player at any position right now. Our only NBA point guard in the last 30 years was Travis, so they're not all that easy to find - and he (with another long time NBA player on the team) couldn't even get us into the tournament as our "leader" (junior and senior seasons, post Wade).
Lenny
Agreed they are hard to find without a doubt. My point is a great PG makes everyone better. Buzz knows more about this any of us, but IMO without a high level PG it is more difficult to reach high levels of success. The need for great offensive rebounder is less if more points are scored in transition.
David Boone was one of my all time favorite players and if he played in uptempo offense I never would have appreciated his knack of getting every offensive rebound. I will take my chances with elite PG in uptempo style and day of the week.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2014, 09:24:13 AM
Hardly a revelation that having a point guard who will play 10 years in the NBA (Larkin, Ennis) would help us (or any) team. We don't have that kind of player at any position right now. Our only NBA point guard in the last 30 years was Travis, so they're not all that easy to find - and he (with another long time NBA player on the team) couldn't even get us into the tournament as our "leader" (junior and senior seasons, post Wade).
Who said it was a revelation?
Have you had revelations here on Scoop? Has anybody?
Goose was just making an accurate statement and I was defending it after some kickback, that's all.
Jeesh. If every comment on here is only deemed worthy because it showcases "original thought," might as well shut down Scoop right now.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2014, 09:24:13 AM
Hardly a revelation that having a point guard who will play 10 years in the NBA (Larkin, Ennis) would help us (or any) team. We don't have that kind of player at any position right now. Our only NBA point guard in the last 30 years was Travis, so they're not all that easy to find - and he (with another long time NBA player on the team) couldn't even get us into the tournament as our "leader" (junior and senior seasons, post Wade).
The point is, under Buzz the point guard position has taken a major downturn. Now that can and probably will change with the additions of Dawson, Duane, Nic etc....but there is no denying the position seems to be secondary to Buzz when compared to "switchables." I don't think this team needs an NBA pg, but a Miller, Hutchins, Henry, James, even Acker would make this team significantly better. Again, I have been a critic of Buzz, this season, but I think in the long run he will learn from his mistakes. He is already a very good coach and will only get better with experience, both in recruiting and coaching. Perhaps we need to wait 10 years for a full evaluation ;D Based on his success so far, I'd have no problem doing that.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 04, 2014, 11:38:03 AM
The point is, under Buzz the point guard position has taken a major downturn. Now that can and probably will change with the additions of Dawson, Duane, Nic etc....but there is no denying the position seems to be secondary to Buzz when compared to "switchables." I don't think this team needs an NBA pg, but a Miller, Hutchins, Henry, James, even Acker would make this team significantly better. Again, I have been a critic of Buzz, this season, but I think in the long run he will learn from his mistakes. He is already a very good coach and will only get better with experience, both in recruiting and coaching. Perhaps we need to wait 10 years for a full evaluation ;D Based on his success so far, I'd have no problem doing that.
Cadougan was the 9th ranked PG in his class. Reggie Smith was 39th. Derrick was 30th. Duane was 12th. Noskowiak is currently 7th.
Much like with bigs, it's easy to say that MU needs to bring in a stud PG but the fact of the matter is that there just aren't that many out there.
Merritt
Aside from Duane Wilson none of the others pass the eye test. If you are not athletic and have ability to score in transition your rating means little. Our last two PG's did not possess those skills at high school level.
Quote from: Goose on February 04, 2014, 12:16:01 PM
Merritt
Aside from Duane Wilson none of the others pass the eye test. If you are not athletic and have ability to score in transition your rating means little. Our last two PG's did not possess those skills at high school level.
Duane Wilson, who has not played a second of D1 basketball, passes the "eye test" of being a stud college PG, but Junior Cadougan who was the starting PG for two Sweet 16 teams, an Elite 8 team and a conference champion does not?
Exactly Du Wilson passes the eye test. He can run baseline to basline dribbling a ball at high speed, he can jump and touch the rim and can bury the three. No comparison on eye test in this case. To your point, Du Wilson has athletic skills Junior did not, time will tell if he has toughness Buzz said Junior had. My gut tells me toughness might be why Wilson did not play this year.
Quote from: Goose on February 04, 2014, 12:39:30 PM
Exactly Du Wilson passes the eye test. He can run baseline to basline dribbling a ball at high speed, he can jump and touch the rim and can bury the three. No comparison on eye test in this case. To your point, Du Wilson has athletic skills Junior did not, time will tell if he has toughness Buzz said Junior had. My gut tells me toughness might be why Wilson did not play this year.
Toughness may have kept Duane out this year. Or perhaps it was the fact that he had a BROKEN F-ING LEG! Eh, I guess it's a horse a piece.
Merritt
BD said Wilson was ready to go for UW game. More to the story, but I am sure you know.
Quote from: Goose on February 04, 2014, 12:58:35 PM
Merritt
BD said Wilson was ready to go for UW game. More to the story, but I am sure you know.
Well then, Big Daddy was wrong. Duane was cleared to return to practice on December 5 and was only practicing between 12-20 minutes at the time. The Wisconsin game was December 7 so Duane playing in that game wasn't realistic. On December 12, Buzz said: "I think the right thing to do is go through practice for a week and see how his body absorbs it. I think he's paying attention and trying to pick things up. I appreciate his attitude, but I want to see how his body handles it and then see how he's doing emotionally and mentally." Two weeks later, it was announced that Duane would redshirt.
I'll believe Buzz over an occasionally-correct "insider."
Merritt
So that is the story of why he redshirted or the facts as you read them in newspaper?
Some folks become larger in life when they pass. Others, like Cadougan, become All-Americans when they graduate.
Quote from: Goose on February 04, 2014, 02:29:46 PM
Merritt
So that is the story of why he redshirted or the facts as you read them in newspaper?
Your statement was that Big Daddy said Duane was ready to go for the UW game. However, he was only able to practice about 15 minutes a day for 3 days prior to that game (after missing 6 weeks). It's hard to imagine he would actually be ready to play in that game given those circumstances. Maybe your gut is right and he's just not tough enough to play through the pain of a healing stress fracture. Personally, I think that he wasn't fully comfortable and didn't want to "waste" a year of eligibility playing spot minutes over a few games and hoping he was ready to contribute for the final third of the season.
Feel free to enlighten us on where your gut gets its info though.
Merritt
My gut is my gut, but reading between the lines of BD's posts things just did not line up with me. He sure sounded like the UW or game after was a slam dunk on Wilson playing. Was just curious if you knew if anything more than injured leg kept him out for season. Most youngs would have picked playing if ready to go on Dec 5 or whatever.