Unreal how fast you guys turn on the team. It is almost possession by possession
yes. and it's a little embarrassing.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 01, 2014, 01:50:25 PM
yes. and it's a little embarrassing.
Really? His coaching performance this year is very embarrassing.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 01, 2014, 01:51:37 PM
Really? His coaching performance this year is very embarrassing.
St Johns looked like the Oklahoma City Thunder today...
Quote from: willie warrior on February 01, 2014, 01:51:37 PM
Really? His coaching performance this year is very embarrassing.
Your posting performance this year has been worse than embarrassing.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on February 01, 2014, 01:38:19 PM
Unreal how fast you guys turn on the team. It is almost possession by possession
If you were rooting for this team with 20 down and an offensively putrid five on the court who were similarly defensively putrid, then you sir have a bigger heart than me.
Sadly.
Many on this board have coached their kids grade school teams, so.....
Quote from: willie warrior on February 01, 2014, 01:51:37 PM
Really? His coaching performance this year is very embarrassing.
The hell you know about coaching willie??? What do you HONESTLY know??
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on February 01, 2014, 01:38:19 PM
Unreal how fast you guys turn on the team. It is almost possession by possession
He has been absolutely terrible this year. Poor leadership, poor player development, poor game plans, poor adjustments. I don't blame or rip the players, this entire debacle of a season is on Buzz.
Couch coaches unite!! So sad what sports media has done to the average fan.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 01:56:06 PM
He has been absolutely terrible this year. Poor leadership, poor player development, poor game plans, poor adjustments. I don't blame or rip the players, this entire debacle of a season is on Buzz.
+ 1 gazillion.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 01:55:08 PM
The hell you know about coaching willie??? What do you HONESTLY know??
Just the facts Mam. Buzz's coaching this year leaves tons to be desired. What the hell do you know about anything? Honestly?
Quote from: willie warrior on February 01, 2014, 01:59:38 PM
Just the facts Mam. Buzz's coaching this year leaves tons to be desired. What the hell do you know about anything? Honestly?
Exactly what I thought.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 01:57:36 PM
Couch coaches unite!! So sad what sports media has done to the average fan.
the "what have you done for me lately" mindset is unfortunate.
Out of curiosity, what should be the reaction to a performance like this? I try not to rip the individual players, they are who they are and Buzz brought them here. I don't believe any of them aren't giving it their all. Buzz's name is on the door, he has been terrible THIS year. Apparently that means we have all "turned on him." I for one believe Buzz will learn his lessons from this season and the program in general will be better for it going forward. But this season he has been awful.
Not really. The few haters haven't gotten much traction the last 5 years, and are coming out of their holes with a vengeance.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:02:03 PM
Out of curiosity, what should be the reaction to a performance like this? I try not to rip the individual players, they are who they are and Buzz brought them here. I don't believe any of them aren't giving it their all. Buzz's name is on the door, he has been terrible THIS year. Apparently that means we have all "turned on him." I for one believe Buzz will learn his lessons from this season and the program in general will be better for it going forward. But this season he has been awful.
So the players aren't accountable? When players don't perform it's the coaches fault? This is what I mean about what the media has done to the average fan. This is seen from fans in every sport on every level now. Sometimes the best thing to say is they all suck, no one is performing like they should and we don't understand why...and that's ok
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:05:19 PM
So the players aren't accountable? When players don't perform it's the coaches fault? This is what I mean about what the media has done to the average fan. This is seen from fans in every sport on every level now. Sometimes the best thing to say is they all suck, no one is performing like they should and we don't understand why...and that's ok
Gotta have someone to blame, I think. As emotional, invested fans, we can't accept that things aren't going well with no answer/blame. We need to find something to pin the situation on instead of just saying "bad year all around."
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:05:19 PM
So the players aren't accountable? When players don't perform it's the coaches fault? This is what I mean about what the media has done to the average fan. This is seen from fans in every sport on every level now. Sometimes the best thing to say is they all suck, no one is performing like they should and we don't understand why...and that's ok
The players, WHICH BUZZ BROUGHT HERE (ie Recruiting), are to be held accountable. For example, he doesn't have a single player on his roster who can dribble penetrate and create for others. That is not Derrick's fault or Jake's or anybody but Buzz's. Some of us don't like to burry our heads in the past seasons success and understand what is the problem this season. It is OK to say Buzz has been terrible this year, I think he and the program will be better for it. Don't hate Buzz, and haven't turned on him, but he has been bad.
Buzz deserves his share of blame because he did not recruit a top level point guard to follow Junior. This team is lacking an experienced, talented backcourt. Derrick is a good 10-12 minute a game guy. Jake should be a 12-14 minute a game sniper. Having said that, I don't think the freshman were ready for more time. At this point not sure it matters, play the freshman.
The consensus of this board was point guard was going to determine success this season, and guess what? The board was right.
Vander may have been the leader the team is missing, although it falls on the guys remaining to step up.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:09:45 PM
The players, WHICH BUZZ BROUGHT HERE (ie Recruiting), are to be held accountable. For example, he doesn't have a single player on his roster who can dribble penetrate and create for others. That is not Derrick's fault or Jake's or anybody but Buzz's. Some of us don't like to burry our heads in the past seasons success and understand what is the problem this season. It is OK to say Buzz has been terrible this year, I think he and the program will be better for it. Don't hate Buzz, and haven't turned on him, but he has been bad.
If only Buzz hadn't told VB to leave early or injured Duane Wilson. Damn you Buzz!
Here's the reaity whether you can accept it or not; everyone, players and coaches, have been bad this year
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:11:08 PM
If only Buzz hadn't told VB to leave early or injured Duane Wilson. Damn you Buzz!
Vander left last April, there was plenty of time to make adjustments. Duane is a dribble penetrator and a terrific outside shooter. But has anything about Buzz's past suggested that Duane would be seeing more than 15 min a game? Everyone goes through defections, and injuries. Buzz is having an off year. It happens. Defending him so vigilantly won't change that.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
Vander left last April, there was plenty of time to make adjustments. Duane is a dribble penetrator and a terrific outside shooter. But has anything about Buzz's past suggested that Duane would be seeing more than 15 min a game? Everyone goes through defections, and injuries. Buzz is having an off year. It happens. Defending him so vigilantly won't change that.
Not defending him...you're missing the point. I simply refuse to place all the blame at his feet. To do so is to literally ignore every other glaring issue with this team
Not all (or I suspect, even most) of us have turned on Buzz. Of course he shares some of the blame along with the players, but look around - sometimes these things just happen.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:11:08 PM
If only Buzz hadn't told VB to leave early or injured Duane Wilson. Damn you Buzz!
Here's the reaity whether you can accept it or not; everyone, players and coaches, have been bad this year
Everyone has been bad?! But but but.... Then who can I raise my pitchforks against to try to run out of town!?!?
Sound reasoning and logic have no place here!!
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
Not defending him...you're missing the point. I simply refuse to place all the blame at his feet. To do so is to literally ignore every other glaring issue with this team
Are you referring to the team HE put together?
If not, then I agree with you, its Buzz the coaches fault and Buzz the recruiters fault. So I guess two people are to blame ::)
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:18:49 PM
Are you referring to the team HE put together?
If not, then I agree with you, its Buzz the coaches fault and Buzz the recruiters fault. So I guess two people are to blame ::)
Nice path to accountability. I promise you're under 25
I'll admit I'm hyper emotional and irrational when it comes to MU. Alwayas have been too emotionally invested in the team.
That being said, I'm struck by the absolute lack of production by O'Tule. His line is pathetic. Who is responsible for his development AS A PLAYER? Buzz. Who is on the hook for having his team in the right mind set? Buzz. Who needs to call TO's to instruct, regroup and remind them of what is available Offensively & Defensively? Buzz.
This team got worked on a lot of levels. The lack of talent at certain positions aside this team didn't play hard or together. That's on Buzz and I'm finding he's awfully thin skinned. He basked in our glory, now own up the crap storm his team has become. I've grown weary of how he's handled adversity....character revealed and it's a big, bald, diaper baby!
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:23:35 PM
Nice path to accountability. I promise you're under 25
When you can't understand a legitimate point you throw an insult and I am the one who is under 25 ::)
You need to take emotions out of this and look at the facts. He has been bad this season, it's ok to say it. I have made mistakes in life and been held accountable for them....if you haven't perhaps you are the one who is under 25....or actually it's 27 in America now before you are an adult, right?
If you're done with the insults, I'd be happy to get back to basketball.
Perhaps we should engage in more of what Judah Friedlander did in DMB's video for "Everyday"
http://www.youtube.com/v/RXe8PFKsOIc
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:27:03 PM
When you can't understand a legitimate point you throw an insult and I am the one who is under 25 ::)
You need to take emotions out of this and look at the facts. He has been bad this season, it's ok to say it. I have made mistakes in life and been held accountable for them....if you haven't perhaps you are the one who is under 25....or actually it's 27 in America now before you are an adult, right?
If you're done with the insults, I'd be happy to get back to basketball.
Not an insult at all just an observation on your perspective.
He has been bad this year, along with every player and coach.
Let's reverse this; tell me who's been good? Who's above blame?
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 01:55:08 PM
The hell you know about coaching willie??? What do you HONESTLY know??
Fair question...makes me wonder why its ok for so many here to determine if other teams coaches are good or not as well.
We sure do have a lot of experts in that field....some of the very same ones that get upset when others opine about our own coaching here at MU ;)
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:11:08 PM
If only Buzz hadn't told VB to leave early or injured Duane Wilson. Damn you Buzz!
Here's the reaity whether you can accept it or not; everyone, players and coaches, have been bad this year
Teams have guys leave early, hardly unique. Players get hurt on every team. Poor excuses for sub par play.
Here a fact, many of the expectations fans had for this team were way out of line. Unrealistic expectations that the freshmen were going to be big contributors. The expectations for Jamil and Devante were very high. Mayo the same.
Juan Anderson and Jake Thomas are clearly not high major players. Steve Taylor lost too much with his injury.
We can rip Buzz all we want, but the "talent" is just not there to compete at a high level. Our record proves that.
Buzz and the staff deserve blame for failing to recruit shooters. The players deserve some blame because the "toughness" Buzz talks so much about is not apparent with the team.
At this point, Buzz needs to circle the wagons and figure out how to compete down the stretch. This team will not make the NCAA and quite frankly, unless play improves, the season ends at the BE tourney.
Kevin O'Neil summed it up pretty well in his interview with the JS:
Q: What's your take on Marquette's struggles this season?
A: To me it's pretty evident. When you lose a guy like Vander Blue with that kind of experience on the perimeter and you replace him with inexperienced guys, it's a difficult transition. To me, it's as plain and simple as that. If Vander Blue were here, nobody is talking about anything except wins. It's really hard to have that kind of turnover throughout your whole perimeter and still stay at the same level. It's not just losing Vander. They lost those other guys who were veteran players on the perimeter, also. The point guard (Junior Cadougan) was a really good player, way underrated. When you lose that kind of firepower on the perimeter, it's hard to replace it with youth and inexperience.
You know its bad when the mouthpiece says it
(http://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/picture-221.png?w=1200&h=)
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:31:15 PM
Not an insult at all just an observation on your perspective.
He has been bad this year, along with every player and coach.
Let's reverse this; tell me who's been good? Who's above blame?
Your intent was to insult my maturity because I don't agree with you
He has been bad this year, along with every player (whom he recruited) and coach (whom he hired).
Who's been good?
Davante's been good and that is it IMO. He still struggles in certain defensive positions, specifically pick and roll defense and he gets discouraged too much when he doesn't get the ball, which effects his attitude. But he has been very good on offense, when given an opportunity. He has not met my expectations of him, but he has been "good." Everyone else has been what I consider below expectations except Dawson, whom I don't think anyone had any expectations for in the first place.
Point being, when an entire roster fails to meet team and personal expectations, it is on the head coach.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:39:47 PM
Your intent was to insult my maturity because I don't agree with you
He has been bad this year, along with every player (whom he recruited) and coach (whom he hired).
Who's been good?
Davante's been good and that is it IMO. He still struggles in certain defensive positions, specifically pick and roll defense and he gets discouraged too much when he doesn't get the ball, which effects his attitude. But he has been very good on offense, when given an opportunity. He has not met my expectations of him, but he has been "good." Everyone else has been what I consider below expectations except Dawson, whom I don't think anyone had any expectations for in the first place.
Point being, when an entire roster fails to meet team and personal expectations, it is on the head coach.
How is the team underperforming entirely on the coach? At the end of the day his players need to put the ball in the hoop.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on February 01, 2014, 02:46:12 PM
How is the team underperforming entirely on the coach? At the end of the day his players need to put the ball in the hoop.
Which player(s) would you like to rip for not doing their job? Go ahead be my guest. If this board has taught me anything over the years, you never rip a "kid." ::)
Ultimately it comes down to the players Buzz brought in here to "put the ball in the hoop." And the strategy he uses to get those players in a position to "put the ball in the hoop." And his ability to improve his players ability to "put the ball in the hoop."
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:39:47 PM
Your intent was to insult my maturity because I don't agree with you
He has been bad this year, along with every player (whom he recruited) and coach (whom he hired).
Who's been good?
Davante's been good and that is it IMO. He still struggles in certain defensive positions, specifically pick and roll defense and he gets discouraged too much when he doesn't get the ball, which effects his attitude. But he has been very good on offense, when given an opportunity. He has not met my expectations of him, but he has been "good." Everyone else has been what I consider below expectations except Dawson, whom I don't think anyone had any expectations for in the first place.
Point being, when an entire roster fails to meet team and personal expectations, it is on the head coach.
I just associate a lack of accountability with the younger generations. Sorry you felt insulted.
We can agree to see this differently. I choose to blame each of the individual parts for their lack of contribution to success. And in my opinion that blame touches each part of this team. Pretty simple really. If you want to say Buzz deserves a larger share of the blame...hey, whatever makes you happy. If I, along with all of my peers, do a poor job at work and the company fails, I don't blame management. I'm done with this now.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:51:15 PM
I just associate a lack of accountability with the younger generations. Sorry you felt insulted.
We can agree to see this differently. I choose to blame each of the individual parts for their lack of contribution to success. And in my opinion that blame touches each part of this team. Pretty simple really. If you want to say Buzz deserves a larger share of the blame...hey, whatever makes you happy. If I, along with all of my peers, do a poor job at work and the company fails, I don't blame management. I'm done with this now.
If you are a union member, that's what you do. ;)
I agree with you, by the way, it's never solely on the coach or the players, but it's easy for people to make a scapegoat out of one person instead of many. Of course, there is also the captain of the ship, CEO thing and they are going to get a bigger share of the blame. That's part of life. No one is going to be blaming the assistant coaches, etc, even though I'm sure they deserve some blame as well.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 01, 2014, 02:51:15 PM
I just associate a lack of accountability with the younger generations. Sorry you felt insulted.
We can agree to see this differently. I choose to blame each of the individual parts for their lack of contribution to success. And in my opinion that blame touches each part of this team. Pretty simple really. If you want to say Buzz deserves a larger share of the blame...hey, whatever makes you happy. If I, along with all of my peers, do a poor job at work and the company fails, I don't blame management. I'm done with this now.
This is different than a work place or even professional sports.
Buzz is President, CEO, General Manager, Player Development and Head Coach. It is far more pressure. I think Buzz will take this experience and grow from it. Id even be willing to bet we don't see a season like this out of him again. He is a smart guy who made mistakes in preparing for this season. It happens. Like the guy, glad he is our coach but he's made mistakes.
I will agree to disagree and move on. Time for a beer! ;D
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:50:27 PM
Which player(s) would you like to rip for not doing their job? Go ahead be my guest. If this board has taught me anything over the years, you never rip a "kid." ::)
Ultimately it comes down to the players Buzz brought in here to "put the ball in the hoop." And the strategy he uses to get those players in a position to "put the ball in the hoop." And his ability to improve his players ability to "put the ball in the hoop."
There's a difference between admitting that the kids are able to accept some of the blame and ripping them. Jamil has refused to take over any game this year. Davante was mailing in games for the first half of the season. Mayo can't keep his head on straight. That's our 3 top scorers. All wildly inconsistent for most of the season.
Who on this team would not have ended up an some other high major had they not pick Marquette? What is Buzz doing/not doing that leads you to believe that he's failing to improve these players' abilities?
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:55:38 PM
This is different than a work place or even professional sports.
Buzz is President, CEO, General Manager, Player Development and Head Coach. It is far more pressure. I think Buzz will take this experience and grow from it. Id even be willing to bet we don't see a season like this out of him again. He is a smart guy who made mistakes in preparing for this season. It happens. Like the guy, glad he is our coach but he's made mistakes.
I will agree to disagree and move on. Time for a beer! ;D
I wouldn't' go that far. The game has changed. Kentucky goes from national champions to NIT. UNC this year struggling make the NCAA. MU picked to win the Big East, right now playing for NIT. People wanted to run Jay Wright out of town 2 years ago at Nova. Bo Ryan was God 3 weeks ago and now their fans have lost hope in him.
It can turn very very quickly from one season to the next. Doesn't take much.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
Vander left last April, there was plenty of time to make adjustments. Duane is a dribble penetrator and a terrific outside shooter. But has anything about Buzz's past suggested that Duane would be seeing more than 15 min a game? Everyone goes through defections, and injuries. Buzz is having an off year. It happens. Defending him so vigilantly won't change that.
What adjustments could Buzz have made after Vander left?
Yeah, I think Buzz has an issue with the backcourt...which is on him. But outside of "get better players," I would like the haters to SPECIFICALLY say what Buzz should do? What adjustments should be made? What players should be playing that aren't?
It is painfully evident over the past two games that our players can be very good...and they can be very bad. There is no magic button for the coach - he can't turn chickensh*t into chicken salad.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 01, 2014, 03:04:32 PM
I wouldn't' go that far. The game has changed. Kentucky goes from national champions to NIT. UNC this year struggling make the NCAA. MU picked to win the Big East, right now playing for NIT. People wanted to run Jay Wright out of town 2 years ago at Nova. Bo Ryan was God 3 weeks ago and now their fans have lost hope in him.
It can turn very very quickly from one season to the next. Doesn't take much.
we aren't very self-aware as fans, are we?
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 02:39:47 PM
Your intent was to insult my maturity because I don't agree with you
He has been bad this year, along with every player (whom he recruited) and coach (whom he hired).
Who's been good?
Davante's been good and that is it IMO. He still struggles in certain defensive positions, specifically pick and roll defense and he gets discouraged too much when he doesn't get the ball, which effects his attitude. But he has been very good on offense, when given an opportunity. He has not met my expectations of him, but he has been "good." Everyone else has been what I consider below expectations except Dawson, whom I don't think anyone had any expectations for in the first place.
Point being, when an entire roster fails to meet team and personal expectations, it is on the head coach.
Don't worry about it Bencat. That is what the haters do when somebody does not agree with them. They call names and throw insults. That is the way our political system rolls nowadays, so why would it be different for some people here.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 01, 2014, 03:06:11 PM
What adjustments could Buzz have made after Vander left?
Yeah, I think Buzz has an issue with the backcourt...which is on him. But outside of "get better players," I would like the haters to SPECIFICALLY say what Buzz should do? What adjustments should be made? What players should be playing that aren't?
It is painfully evident over the past two games that our players can be very good...and they can be very bad. There is no magic button for the coach - he can't turn chickensh*t into chicken salad.
This is ridiculous, and "haters" is a not even close to appropriate. I "hate" Buzz because I blame him for not being more prepared for the season? I LIKE BUZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I keep seeing that on my screen but it must not be translating onto others computer screens when I hit post.
Your backcourt comments are exactly correct. I believe the second Vander left, Mayo should have been told to prepare to play some point guard. I believe the more talented, but less skilled, freshmen should have seen a lot more minutes in the non-conference. I believe Buzz, based on the concept that he doesn't put in an offense until conference play starts, (allegedly) should not schedule the high profile, non-conference games that we have been unable to compete in lately. Non-conference should have been where Dawson, Johnson and Burton learned on the job and were held accountable so they could be counted on more now.
It's not about playing time now, they are all in a funk. Buzz's over valuing of Derrick and Jake have hurt immensely this year. I am not bashing either of them, they play really hard and are good kids. I could be wrong, but I believe that if (Dawson and Derrick) and (JuJuan and Jake) split minutes equally from the beginning of the season this team would be in much better shape now. I also believe not starting Todd from the beginning really messed with his confidence and leadership, because he had no defined roll. Not to go off topic, but having a "defined roll" is huge for players in any sport. Buzz does not seem to share that philosophy, based on playing time and strategy. This has been the problem with the Milwaukee Bucks for about a decade now.
The chicken salad/chicken poop comment doesn't warrant a response. But, Buzz and the university paid good money for that chicken poop.
Quote from: muhoops1 on February 01, 2014, 02:25:40 PM
I'll admit I'm hyper emotional and irrational when it comes to MU. Alwayas have been too emotionally invested in the team.
That being said, I'm struck by the absolute lack of production by O'Tule. His line is pathetic. Who is responsible for his development AS A PLAYER? Buzz. Who is on the hook for having his team in the right mind set? Buzz. Who needs to call TO's to instruct, regroup and remind them of what is available Offensively & Defensively? Buzz.
This team got worked on a lot of levels. The lack of talent at certain positions aside this team didn't play hard or together. That's on Buzz and I'm finding he's awfully thin skinned. He basked in our glory, now own up the crap storm his team has become. I've grown weary of how he's handled adversity....character revealed and it's a big, bald, diaper baby!
A bit too strong for me, but I totally understand why a guy making an obscene amount to money to coach a basketball team shouldn't take the blame when that team comes out for a huge game and shows ZERO hear, desire and toughness. That is on the coach. He got all the praise the past three years for the tournament runs, now he should take some heat for this year's debacle.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 01, 2014, 03:06:11 PM
What adjustments could Buzz have made after Vander left?
Yeah, I think Buzz has an issue with the backcourt...which is on him. But outside of "get better players," I would like the haters to SPECIFICALLY say what Buzz should do? What adjustments should be made? What players should be playing that aren't?
It is painfully evident over the past two games that our players can be very good...and they can be very bad. There is no magic button for the coach - he can't turn chickensh*t into chicken salad.
And as I said before, Sultan, Buzz is responsible for the "Chickensh*t" because he brought it. So it is on him. He is the coach with the cash and resources, so don't bring the "chicken--", as you call it.
I was wondering last night, if part of MU's probelm is not the new foul rules? MU under Buzz has always been a real physical defensive team. The new foul rules have changed that. Buzz has done well in teaching the players not to foul under these rules, but the team was built to be aggressive and physical on defense. The finesse teams like Creighton are faring very well under these new rules. I have come to the conclusion that the rules have hurt MU as their prior style is not suited for this game. Under these rules the offensive player gets a lot more breaks than a defensive player. We were not a good offensive team last year, but we could make it up by being tough and physical on the defensive end. This year we are not allowed to do that and that just makes our offensive short comings that much more noticeable.
Quote from: BenCat12 on February 01, 2014, 03:32:17 PM
This is ridiculous, and "haters" is a not even close to appropriate. I "hate" Buzz because I blame him for not being more prepared for the season? I LIKE BUZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I keep seeing that on my screen but it must not be translating onto others computer screens when I hit post.
Your backcourt comments are exactly correct. I believe the second Vander left, Mayo should have been told to prepare to play some point guard. I believe the more talented, but less skilled, freshmen should have seen a lot more minutes in the non-conference. I believe Buzz, based on the concept that he doesn't put in an offense until conference play starts, (allegedly) should not schedule the high profile, non-conference games that we have been unable to compete in lately. Non-conference should have been where Dawson, Johnson and Burton learned on the job and were held accountable so they could be counted on more now.
It's not about playing time now, they are all in a funk. Buzz's over valuing of Derrick and Jake have hurt immensely this year. I am not bashing either of them, they play really hard and are good kids. I could be wrong, but I believe that if (Dawson and Derrick) and (JuJuan and Jake) split minutes equally from the beginning of the season this team would be in much better shape now. I also believe not starting Todd from the beginning really messed with his confidence and leadership, because he had no defined roll. Not to go off topic, but having a "defined roll" is huge for players in any sport. Buzz does not seem to share that philosophy, based on playing time and strategy. This has been the problem with the Milwaukee Bucks for about a decade now.
The chicken salad/chicken poop comment doesn't warrant a response. But, Buzz and the university paid good money for that chicken poop.
1. You are 100% correct on the haters response. I should not have used it. My apologies.
2. Todd moving to point is something that I had thought would be good, but here's the deal. Not only is he inconsistent on the court, he is unreliable off the court. I'm not going to get into too many details, but if the coach doesn't know exactly where Todd is going to be physically or mentally, it is pretty hard to hand the reigns to him as point guard. He had the SG position to grab, and he hasn't really been able to do that.
3. Playing the freshman earlier. OK. I guess I can see that. Some of the growing pains that they are going through now are ones that could have been sorted out earlier.
But I am not sure in the end what this would have done to resolve their biggest problem...a complete inconsistency from game to game.
What is going on with Buzz this year? He coached so effectively the past seasons and this year he looks like he couldn't coach a grade school team. The players play disorganized. Their defense stinks. Their offense is worse. Buzz recruited these players and we all expected a much higher level of play. It seems like he is coaching the p[layers "down." While most of them were stars and high scorers in high school, in Buzz's system they are luck to score in double digits. And their defense stinks. De Wilson played much better D his freshman year. It really makes you wonder if Buzz has other issues or is distracted or is just doing a lousy job of coaching this year. It's confusing and frustrating watching him coach and the team play this year. Wish it weren't so.
When the company goes bad, you blame the CEO. That's life. And Buzz is the CEO of Marquette basketball.
That being said, anybody can have a bad season. It's a bad season. Let's talk again at this point next year to see if this is a trend or an aberration.
The best news of all: It's only basketball. Thank god it isn't real life, or some folks would be throwing themselves off of buildings.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 01, 2014, 03:44:46 PM
1. You are 100% correct on the haters response. I should not have used it. My apologies.
2. Todd moving to point is something that I had thought would be good, but here's the deal. Not only is he inconsistent on the court, he is unreliable off the court. I'm not going to get into too many details, but if the coach doesn't know exactly where Todd is going to be physically or mentally, it is pretty hard to hand the reigns to him as point guard. He had the SG position to grab, and he hasn't really been able to do that.
3. Playing the freshman earlier. OK. I guess I can see that. Some of the growing pains that they are going through now are ones that could have been sorted out earlier.
But I am not sure in the end what this would have done to resolve their biggest problem...a complete inconsistency from game to game.
going on your premise, and i think it's a good one, about getting todd ready for the season-boy, if todd was presented with an opportunity as you laid out, what a f'd up chance he had to shine for not only himself, mu and the nba. you would think his bro-o.j.-right here in milwaukee, could have pulled him aside and shown him a little love going forward. these are situations kids dream about on the playgrounds...very unfortunate and a waste that if he is introspective, he will kick his-self in the a$$ looking back
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 01, 2014, 03:48:41 PM
What is going on with Bo this year? He coached so effectively the first 14 games, and the last 5 he looks like he couldn't coach a grade school team. The players play disorganized. Their defense stinks. Their offense is worse. Bo recruited these players and we all expected a much higher level of play. It seems like he is coaching the p[layers "down." While most of them were stars and high scorers in high school, in Bo's system they are luck to score in double digits. And their defense stinks. Dekker played much better D his freshman year. It really makes you wonder if Bo has other issues or is distracted or is just doing a lousy job of coaching this past month. It's confusing and frustrating watching him coach and the team play this month. Wish it weren't so.
I think we should change this up a bit to show just how fast some things can change.
IIRC, last year about this time everyone was worried Buzz would be heading back to TX to take over for Barnes, whose Texas Longhorns were stinking it all up... Welllll .. now Barnes has TX @ #25, beating #4 Kansas now... I don't think Buzz is going anywhere and MU is having a down year.. It CAN happen anywhere"
TX... Vill...Kentucky...NC etc... MU will be fine..maybe even still this year... GO WARRIORS ! ! ! !
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 01, 2014, 03:48:41 PM
What is going on with Buzz this year? He coached so effectively the past seasons and this year he looks like he couldn't coach a grade school team. The players play disorganized. Their defense stinks. Their offense is worse. Buzz recruited these players and we all expected a much higher level of play. It seems like he is coaching the p[layers "down." While most of them were stars and high scorers in high school, in Buzz's system they are luck to score in double digits. And their defense stinks. De Wilson played much better D his freshman year. It really makes you wonder if Buzz has other issues or is distracted or is just doing a lousy job of coaching this year. It's confusing and frustrating watching him coach and the team play this year. Wish it weren't so.
He misses Larry.
Buzz has looked out of sorts to me this season. Possibly self imposed pressure to keep things at high level has taken a toll. Love the guy and hope not too much pressure on him.
Quote from: Goose on February 01, 2014, 05:31:18 PM
Buzz has looked out of sorts to me this season. Possibly self imposed pressure to keep things at high level has taken a toll. Love the guy and hope not too much pressure on him.
I just think he's geniunely at a loss. He can't rely on anything heading into any game. He has players with potential who only show up on occasion. He has offensively talented players who don't play hard all the time and don't defend. He doesn't have on-court leaders. He has talented freshman who play like freshman.
This roster is a mess for a number of reasons. He has a really difficult job when you consider it all and I think he's stumped. In years past he'd pull moves out of his hat and they would work. Nothing's worked this year. A learning experience no doubt
This turning on Buzz, who has restored Marquette over the last years to accomplish what it has not done since Al days is totally off base. We have had a player lex be for the "NBA", one bail on us before the year started, one injury out for the season, and another injury (Steve) that took two months away from his playing. And we'd it and complain about coaching. I guess we can do whatever we want on this board, but this seems over the top, IMHO.
"Wow we turned on buzz really quick"
"We" .. no
"turned on buzz" no.
"really quick" no.
Quote from: forgetful on February 01, 2014, 01:53:29 PM
Your posting performance this year has been worse than embarrassing.
Sorry my posts embarrass you
I went to this game and have to say;
We gave up 10 layup dunks
8 open threes
and showed no pride. The team has no leadership
I say just bend over and take it his season. Bid the seniors adios. Welcome the new dudes. Strap it on and proceed full stream ahead.
I think there is a difference between "turning on Buzz" and "questioning Buzz." There are many on this board who have been insulting to Buzz and his coaching this year. "Sucks" "has no idea what he is doing" "couldn't coach 7th graders" is different from "I don't understand his style" "I would have done things differently" "I think it would have been better if."
I personally have no problem with questioning Buzz and I am firmly in the "Buzz Williams is the best coach at Marquette since Al" camp. But I get very annoyed with and sometimes will attack the "turning on Buzz" crowd. Has this year been what we expected? No. But I do think a coach deserves a little loyalty from his fan base after delivering the best 5 year span we have had in years.
I firmly believe that we will pull a Nova or a Texas and be right back in the tournament again next season. I'm excited to see these freshmen become sophomores. I've seen more talent in them than I have any other freshmen during Buzz's tenure.
The one thing I will say is that while many of our fans may have "turned" on Buzz, at least we do not have a bunch of posters screaming "Fire Buzz" like I have seen from other fan bases. To my knowledge there has only been one poster who has seriously suggested firing Buzz *cough*Dreadman*cough*
RING OUT AHOYA!
You can only coach up a player so far. Some players don't have the same makeup as JFB, Vander, Wes, Jerel, etc. That is not all on Buzz. He has proven in the past that he can coach 'em up. Is it possible that the higher ranked recruits he is getting now are harder to coach up?
This team misses intangibles as much as anything else.
Vander's leadership is missed as much as his stats. Brad Stevens has stated in glowing terms how hard he practices and how much he wants it. Not sure anyone could have anticipated the degree those factors would be missed.
Quote from: mu-rara on February 02, 2014, 01:54:14 PM
Is it possible that the higher ranked recruits he is getting now are harder to coach up?
Othe than Jamil, the higher ranked recruits are freshman, and next year's class.
Davante is great, but was not high ranked. Same for Chris, and Jake as seniors. I may be wrong about Juan, but Mayo and Derrick was ranked in the middle. STJ was in the 80's nationally I believe, depending on the rating service.
Vander was highly ranked and he was completely coachable.
I'm definitely not turning on Buzz, who I think is one of the best, but this is just a tough team to enjoy and I don't blame anyone who loves MU hoops for being frustrated. We play a boring style, some guys appear to be coasting here and there, the freshmen are talented but very raw and don't seem to be developing much at all (watching Burton play basketball right now, for example, as talented as he is, is simply infuriating) and the max effort guys (Derrick, Thomas, Anderson, Otule), who I have always loved, have gaping holes in their games.
Just a tough year. The amazing thing is we're probably, though not guaranteed, an NIT team this year. Can you imagine having rooted for DePaul or Seton Hall for the last 5-10 years?
Do you think it's the coaching?
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 03, 2014, 09:15:37 AM
Just a tough year. The amazing thing is we're probably, though not guaranteed, an NIT team this year. Can you imagine having rooted for DePaul or Seton Hall for the last 5-10 years?
The reality is that very few still actively root for either team. Look at their season ticket base. DePaul Scoop would have about 100 members.
Quote from: jsglow on February 03, 2014, 09:31:19 AM
The reality is that very few still actively root for either team. Look at their season ticket base. DePaul Scoop would have about 100 members.
I believe it's called DePoop.
Quote from: jsglow on February 03, 2014, 09:31:19 AM
The reality is that very few still actively root for either team. Look at their season ticket base. DePaul Scoop would have about 100 members.
Well, wearedepaul.com has 170 people online as I posted this.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=430&oul=1
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 03, 2014, 09:25:54 AM
Do you think it's the coaching?
It's a lot of things. I think class distribution and particularly roster construction are the biggest problems. We seem to have an endless supply of talented athletic guys who can't shoot.
Watching the St John's game, it was obvious. On defense we were chasing guys out to 25 feet, and the resultant spread of the defense gave St. John's all kinds of floor space and openings to exploit. When we were on offense, St. John's just stayed close to the basket, didn't chase outside and we had no room to operate. If you do that to us and you have a shot blocker we don't have any answers.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 03, 2014, 10:00:36 AM
It's a lot of things. I think class distribution and particularly roster construction are the biggest problems. We seem to have an endless supply of talented athletic guys who can't shoot.
Yes. I agree with this. I hope Buzz has addressed this with Duane and Ahmed, and it looks like Jarvis Garrett can shoot as well.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 03, 2014, 10:00:36 AM
We seem to have an endless supply of talented athletic guys who can't shoot.
This. And honestly, they're not all that talented.
Athletes and switchables only create mismatches if they're threats to score from inside and out.
For those of you ripping Buzz, I have two words for you.
Bob Dukiet.
Bad season. It happens to the best of them. Move along, nothing to see here.
Quote from: humanlung on February 03, 2014, 11:35:52 AM
For those of you ripping Buzz, I have two words for you.
Bob Dukiet.
Bad season. It happens to the best of them. Move along, nothing to see here.
So we are supposed to judge Buzz with Bob Dukiet as the yardstick. How about some other words: Al McGuire; Dean Smith; Rick Pitino; John Wooden; Bob Knight; etc. Right, nothing to see here.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 03, 2014, 11:58:54 AM
So we are supposed to judge Buzz with Bob Dukiet as the yardstick. How about some other words: Al McGuire; Dean Smith; Rick Pitino; John Wooden; Bob Knight; etc. Right, nothing to see here.
You act as if we are at the bottom of the barrel. I am merely pointing out, as someone who went to MU when we WERE at the bottom of the barrel, that while this season is disappointing, it could be a lot worse.
Your comparisons are utterly invalid. Al? Wooden? Totally different era in college b-ball. To think otherwise would demonstrate a lack of perspective that only a select few could have. Smith, Pitino, Knight? All blue-blood programs. Yet they all had to experience down periods. Perhaps you have forgotten Daugherty, Smith, and Sampson?
Back on "Ignore" you go.
So is your comparison to Bob Dukiet. Different era as you would say.
Plenty of us (dare I say the vast, vast majority) support Buzz and appreciate what he has done for MU. This is a down year, but except for his first year with the three amigos coming back, Buzz has produced miracle seasons up until now.
The haters: A vocal minority and some trolls.. who are sometimes heard the loudest.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 01, 2014, 03:48:41 PM
What is going on with Buzz this year? He coached so effectively the past seasons and this year he looks like he couldn't coach a grade school team. The players play disorganized. Their defense stinks. Their offense is worse. Buzz recruited these players and we all expected a much higher level of play. It seems like he is coaching the p[layers "down." While most of them were stars and high scorers in high school, in Buzz's system they are luck to score in double digits. And their defense stinks. De Wilson played much better D his freshman year. It really makes you wonder if Buzz has other issues or is distracted or is just doing a lousy job of coaching this year. It's confusing and frustrating watching him coach and the team play this year. Wish it weren't so.
Ever hear of a slump?
When Marquette won in '77, at about the same time of the season, they lost 3 in a row and 4 of 6 (the 2 wins were against cupcakes).
Nothing unusual here. they will recover and continue winning.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 02, 2014, 02:47:18 AM
I think there is a difference between "turning on Buzz" and "questioning Buzz." There are many on this board who have been insulting to Buzz and his coaching this year. "Sucks" "has no idea what he is doing" "couldn't coach 7th graders" is different from "I don't understand his style" "I would have done things differently" "I think it would have been better if."
I personally have no problem with questioning Buzz and I am firmly in the "Buzz Williams is the best coach at Marquette since Al" camp. But I get very annoyed with and sometimes will attack the "turning on Buzz" crowd. Has this year been what we expected? No. But I do think a coach deserves a little loyalty from his fan base after delivering the best 5 year span we have had in years.
I firmly believe that we will pull a Nova or a Texas and be right back in the tournament again next season. I'm excited to see these freshmen become sophomores. I've seen more talent in them than I have any other freshmen during Buzz's tenure.
The one thing I will say is that while many of our fans may have "turned" on Buzz, at least we do not have a bunch of posters screaming "Fire Buzz" like I have seen from other fan bases. To my knowledge there has only been one poster who has seriously suggested firing Buzz *cough*Dreadman*cough*
RING OUT AHOYA!
Excellent post. And every team's site has their "dreadmans" & "Willie Warriors". They are comparable to taxes. Just a cost of doing business.
Quote from: brandx on February 03, 2014, 04:52:19 PM
Excellent post. And every team's site has their "dreadmans" & "Willie Warriors". They are comparable to taxes. Just a cost of doing business.
thank you for comparing me to taxes. Yes I question Mr. Buzz because there are areas to question. Maybe you do not think so as you get your next Kool Aid fix.
And that comparison to taxes; let's see, necessary for the well being of the country, is that what you were referring to. Necessary to promote safety, equality, support for the infrastructure, maybe that is what you were referring to. After all according to many, and likely some on this board, we must have taxes or we would have chaos. So thank you, again. Never heard it said that taxes were a cost if doing business. Just like bribes, maybe?
Quote from: brandx on February 03, 2014, 04:48:17 PM
Ever hear of a slump?
When Marquette won in '77, at about the same time of the season, they lost 3 in a row and 4 of 6 (the 2 wins were against cupcakes).
Nothing unusual here. they will recover and continue winning.
Yes, thank you for comparing this team to 1977. Lots of parallels between the two. Somebody should start a poll on that. How about you.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 03, 2014, 05:30:31 PM
Yes, thank you for comparing this team to 1977. Lots of parallels between the two. Somebody should start a poll on that. How about you.
Good catch - actually my post about the slump was supposed to be in the thread about UW.