So most of the schools have a clear coach that brought the school to a level that it hasn't returned to.
How would you rank these coaches from top to bottom? (You'll notice I kept NIT finals as successful pre NCAA moving to 64 teams)
McGuire: 295-80, NIT runner up in 67, won 1970 NIT, NCAA runner up in 74 and won it in 77
Thompson: 596-239, NCAA runner up in 82 and 85 won it in 84
Massimino: 357-241, NCAA champion in 85
Carneseca: 526-200, Final 4 in 85
Gavitt: 209-84, NIT runner up in 75, Final four in 73
Carlesimo: 212-166, NCAA final in 89
Meyer: 724-354, NIT runner up in 44 and 83, won NIT in 45, NCAA Final Four in 43 and 79
Stevens: 84-22, NCAA runner up in 2010 and 2011
Xavier I didn't know who to go with because Miller and Matta both took them to an elite 8 and Mack's brought them to 3 sweet 16s.
Creighton didn't know who to go with because there's no NIT finals and no NCAA final fours.
1. McGuire (and I don't think I'm being a homer here)
2. Thompson (brought them from nowhere and made them relevant)
3. Carneseca (very solid during the heyday of the BE)
4. Meyer (did it for a long time, never won the big one but came close)
5. Carlesimo (really brought them from nowhere)
6. Massimino (this is hard because he had success, but was very mediocre later on)
7. Gavitt (very good coach, but I don't think rises to the levels above. Pitino was better.)
Incomplete...the rest. Stevens was not around long enough IMO.
Love the topic BTW.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 31, 2014, 12:15:13 PM
1. McGuire (and I don't think I'm being a homer here)
2. Thompson (brought them from nowhere and made them relevant)
3. Carneseca (very solid during the heyday of the BE)
4. Meyer (did it for a long time, never won the big one but came close)
5. Carlesimo (really brought them from nowhere)
6. Massimino (this is hard because he had success, but was very mediocre later on)
7. Gavitt (very good coach, but I don't think rises to the levels above. Pitino was better.)
Incomplete...the rest. Stevens was not around long enough IMO.
Love the topic BTW.
I pretty much agree with your list though I'm inclined to put Massimino at number 4 or 5.
Agree Pitino was better but he wasn't at Providence very long. And thanks been planning on posting it for a while.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 31, 2014, 12:15:13 PM
1. McGuire (and I don't think I'm being a homer here)
2. Thompson (brought them from nowhere and made them relevant)
3. Carneseca (very solid during the heyday of the BE)
4. Meyer (did it for a long time, never won the big one but came close)
5. Carlesimo (really brought them from nowhere)
6. Massimino (this is hard because he had success, but was very mediocre later on)
7. Gavitt (very good coach, but I don't think rises to the levels above. Pitino was better.)
Incomplete...the rest. Stevens was not around long enough IMO.
Love the topic BTW.
Agree with the top 4, I put Stevens #5 and flip Massimono and Carlesimo.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on January 31, 2014, 12:19:14 PM
I pretty much agree with your list though I'm inclined to put Massimino at number 4 or 5.
Agree Pitino was better but he wasn't at Providence very long. And thanks been planning on posting it for a while.
I'd keep Al first b/c he reached the heights with different players--JTII had an outstanding overall record, but Ewing was the key to all three of those NCAA FF teams.
Ray Meyer would be down the list IMO. Having Al retire and hand deliver him recruits does make him a great coach. Al did more for Depaul post '78 than Ray did.
Quote from: Goose on January 31, 2014, 12:28:58 PM
Ray Meyer would be down the list IMO. Having Al retire and hand deliver him recruits does make him a great coach. Al did more for Depaul post '78 than Ray did.
But he did win the nit, go to the finals of it and go to the final four before Al ever knew him.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 31, 2014, 12:15:13 PM
1. McGuire (and I don't think I'm being a homer here)
2. Thompson (brought them from nowhere and made them relevant)
3. Carneseca (very solid during the heyday of the BE)
4. Meyer (did it for a long time, never won the big one but came close)
5. Carlesimo (really brought them from nowhere)
6. Massimino (this is hard because he had success, but was very mediocre later on)
7. Gavitt (very good coach, but I don't think rises to the levels above. Pitino was better.)
Incomplete...the rest. Stevens was not around long enough IMO.
Love the topic BTW.
Pretty much agree Sultan. Another epiphany. Only difference might be putting Meyer over Carneseca, but it would be close. As much as I loved Al as being the Man (other than Wooden), a very good argument could be made for John Thompson, however I will be a Homer and agree on Al, he was one of a kind, and made MU basketball a big time program. JT was too vanilla. McGuire was a huge flake and a 40 plus year old contrarian, and most importantly a great guy.
If Scoop was around during the Al era he would have been tarred, feathered and thrown into Lake Michigan. Thirty-nine of those eighty losses came during his first three seasons. We were 14-12 my freshman year.
I still have hope the team this year will surprise me with a winning streak. If not, every team and coach has down years. Next season could be more of the same as we'll have 5 freshman (one redshirt) and 4 sophomores (one eligible in December), one junior and three seniors. Buzz will have to play the young guys as they make up two-thirds of the team. However, 2015-2016 could be a special year if there are no coaching changes or player transfers.
1. Thompson
2. Al
3. Carlesimo
4. Carnesecca
5. Meyer
6. Massimino
7. Gavitt
Quote from: willie warrior on January 31, 2014, 12:37:04 PM
Pretty much agree Sultan. Another epiphany. Only difference might be putting Meyer over Carneseca,
When I first typed it, I indeed had Meyer over Carneseca, but I switched them at the last moment!
Quote from: Eye on January 31, 2014, 10:32:30 PM
1. Thompson
2. Al
3. Carlesimo
4. Carnesecca
5. Meyer
6. Massimino
7. Gavitt
Yeah, I think if Carlesimo would have stuck with Seton Hall, he may have had the record to match anyone on this list. He is a very good coach, but I don't think has the demeanor to be a head NBA coach.
I've heard a lot of interviews over the years with Carlesimo and always come away impressed. Carnesecca gets a lot of his accolades from longevity (as does Meyer), Massamino from one run and one incredible upset. That and there haven't been many other guys at Seton Hall who've been that good. SJU and nova have had some other guys achieve some pretty good success (McGuire, Wright).
Great topic. I personally agree that Ray should be down the list a tad. DePaul was very mediocre for many years until Al retired. I totally respect him for his longevity but his record leaves something to be desired.
Let's hope today's great BEast coaches decide to make long careers at their current institutions. The grass doesn't get much greener.
I personally agree that Ray should be down the list a tad. DePaul was very mediocre for many years until Al retired. I totally respect him for his longevity but his record leaves something to be desired.
I sort of agree, but I also remember how Meyer/DePaul used to give MU absolute fits during late 50's - early 60's, especially at their place.