MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: madtownwarrior on January 30, 2014, 11:12:24 AM
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I find this quote odd:
"But (assistant) coaches like (Jerry) Wainwright and Jeff (Reynolds) always want me to sit down and talk to him about getting in a little bit earlier and getting a rhythm because they feel like I help the team," Mayo said. "But I'm a guy who really doesn't get into all of that. Obviously every player wants to play a lot, but I want to see what he thinks is best for the team.
"I think he's starting to realize it a little bit. At the same time, I like to see the other guys get going and hopefully I can come in and be at the pace they're at."
Assistants telling the player to ask head coach for earlier playing time? Don't assistants advise the head coach on who should be playing and when to help the team?
"Buzz starting to realize it a bit?"
No judgements, seems a little odd...
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/todd-mayo-could-be-critical-in-marquette-stretch-run-b99194491z1-242683591.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/todd-mayo-could-be-critical-in-marquette-stretch-run-b99194491z1-242683591.html)
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So why do people think Mayo is a bad team player again? I loved what I was hearing from him in this article
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Found it interesting that Buzz pointed out Mayo is shooting just 29% from the 3pt line in Big East play..essentially downplaying his performance....while he props up the performance of a kid shooting 9% and citing his amazing 6-13 shooting night against Butler...not to mention, no mention of the starter at the 2G, having made only 2, 2pt FG's for an entire year.
Ironic that Wainwright and Reynolds feel Todd should be playing more...and I suspect they along with Chew feel the same about our PG situation....but....they aint the head coach so it doesn't matter!
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Found it interesting that Buzz pointed out Mayo is shooting just 29% from the 3pt line in Big East play..essentially downplaying his performance....while he props up the performance of a kid shooting 9% and citing his amazing 6-13 shooting night against Butler...not to mention, no mention of the starter at the 2G, having made only 2, 2pt FG's for an entire year.
Ironic that Wainwright and Reynolds feel Todd should be playing more...and I suspect they along with Chew feel the same about our PG situation....but....they aint the head coach so it doesn't matter!
YES!!! Here we go again...
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Found it interesting that Buzz pointed out Mayo is shooting just 29% from the 3pt line in Big East play..essentially downplaying his performance....while he props up the performance of a kid shooting 9% and citing his amazing 6-13 shooting night against Butler...not to mention, no mention of the starter at the 2G, having made only 2, 2pt FG's for an entire year.
Ironic that Wainwright and Reynolds feel Todd should be playing more...and I suspect they along with Chew feel the same about our PG situation....but....they aint the head coach so it doesn't matter!
Never stop being you. To all of the "haters," it isn't as if Ners is going on these diatribes about Wilson without providing good evidence of why Wilson is terrible and should not be playing. Pretty much every post reveals more statistics about why Wilson is painfully inferior--the more hard evidence the better so the Wilson sympathists can start seeing the light.
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Found it interesting that Buzz pointed out Mayo is shooting just 29% from the 3pt line in Big East play..essentially downplaying his performance....while he props up the performance of a kid shooting 9% and citing his amazing 6-13 shooting night against Butler...not to mention, no mention of the starter at the 2G, having made only 2, 2pt FG's for an entire year.
Ironic that Wainwright and Reynolds feel Todd should be playing more...and I suspect they along with Chew feel the same about our PG situation....but....they aint the head coach so it doesn't matter!
Nobody better than you to twist, misinterpret and imagine to feed your confirmation bias.
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YES!!! Here we go again...
I agree....
but it is the #1 issue affecting the team and nothing is even a close 2nd.
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Ironic that Wainwright and Reynolds feel Todd should be playing more...and I suspect they along with Chew feel the same about our PG situation....but....they aint the head coach so it doesn't matter!
Of course what you do.
But the article *doesn't* flat out say that Wainwright and Reynolds feel Todd should be playing more. This is the quote from Todd:
"But (assistant) coaches like (Jerry) Wainwright and Jeff (Reynolds) always want me to sit down and talk to him about getting in a little bit earlier and getting a rhythm because they feel like I help the team,"
And then later he adds this:
"I think for us to get over the edge I need to have more greediness in me. I have to be controlled with it, not making crazy plays turning the ball over or being too greedy with it.
"I have to use my mind when I am greedy with it and break out of this shell. I felt like when it went into overtime against Villanova I felt like I got us there, but I didn't know what the next step was.
"I felt like I should controlled the tempo more when Buzz was running plays for me. I felt like after the game was over and I watched film, I felt like I should have been more aggressive. After Jamil (Wilson) fouled out, I felt like I should have been more aggressive in the game. Davante (Gardner) stayed aggressive, but I just kind of faded away a little bit."
I think it is very obvious from reading this is that they want Todd to grab a hold of things on an off the floor. Not only should he go out and be more aggressive on the floor, but talk to Buzz about what you want. Look, the coaching staff knows what is going on here - they talk all the time. (Buzz alluded as such during the radio show yesterday.) Todd is a junior who is going to be counted on heavily next year. Step up and say that you *want* it. Teachable moment.
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Never stop being you. To all of the "haters," it isn't as if Ners is going on these diatribes about Wilson without providing good evidence of why Wilson is terrible and should not be playing. Pretty much every post reveals more statistics about why Wilson is painfully inferior--the more hard evidence the better so the Wilson sympathists can start seeing the light.
To be honest, I'm just finding Ners laughable at this point. He could take the local weather report and turn it into a negative about Derrick Wilson.
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Nobody better than you to twist, misinterpret and imagine to feed your confirmation bias.
LOL - Says the guy who continues to think our PG getting max minutes of anyone on the team shooting 8%, 35% and 48% from the 3, 2 and 1 deserves to be on the floor 30 minutes per game...while team is 10-9!
Do you not find it at all ironic that assistant coaches encourage Mayo to go to Buzz for more PT...and Tod also mention how it would help him get into a better rhythm?? But some here think you should put up great numbers in 2-3 minute stints of action...to hell with getting in a rhythm.
Do you not find it funny that on the radio show last night Buzz mentions Derrick being 6-13 against Butler as evidence he can shoot and is worthy of PT, yet then essentially makes a case against Mayo shooting 29% from the 3 point line in conference play as justification for him not playing more?
So..he uses the outlier stat on Derrick to support him playing....and for the most part finds the worst stat on Todd he can find to justify him not playing more. Ironic.
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LOL - Says the guy who continues to think our PG getting max minutes of anyone on the team shooting 8%, 35% and 48% from the 3, 2 and 1 deserves to be on the floor 30 minutes per game...while team is 10-9!
Do you not find it at all ironic that assistant coaches encourage Mayo to go to Buzz for more PT...
Hang on folks....it's the Ners' Ride of Out of Context Quotes!!!!
This one looks like a real long one so buckle up!!!!
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Found it interesting that Buzz pointed out Mayo is shooting just 29% from the 3pt line in Big East play..essentially downplaying his performance....while he props up the performance of a kid shooting 9% and citing his amazing 6-13 shooting night against Butler...not to mention, no mention of the starter at the 2G, having made only 2, 2pt FG's for an entire year.
Ironic that Wainwright and Reynolds feel Todd should be playing more...and I suspect they along with Chew feel the same about our PG situation....but....they aint the head coach so it doesn't matter!
Not sure how you've been following this team for as long as you have and you can't grasp that Buzz says different things about each player depending on what he thinks they can/can not take in terms of criticism. Some guys like to get that negative feedback, some guys don't. That drives how he describes his players in the public forum.
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To be honest, I'm just finding Ners laughable at this point. He could take the local weather report and turn it into a negative about Derrick Wilson.
Look out your window, Sultan! Derrick Wilson played back-up minutes for 2 years and the winter was pretty typical. He's playing nearly 30 min/game now and there's a polar vortex! Coincidence? I don't think so.
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YES!!! Here we go again...
The board was becoming more readable this morning, but I guess that is over. It apparently does not take much to get Ners out of the relaxed state he said he was going to adopt.
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Look out your window, Sultan! Derrick Wilson played back-up minutes for 2 years and the winter was pretty typical. He's playing nearly 30 min/game now and there's a polar vortex! Coincidence? I don't think so.
Yeah, well, he's from Alaska, so...
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It's hard to believe that in only 15 posts, this had become the worst thread ever.
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To me, Buzz is like Al. There are no state secrets. If you think something and want to tell a reporter, that's cool, just be a man about it and own up to it.
I think we parse this stuff a lot more than the team does.
The Todd on Jamil press is a great example.
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So..he uses the outlier stat on Derrick to support him playing....and for the most part finds the worst stat on Todd he can find to justify him not playing more. Ironic.
Wait a minute...
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I find this quote odd:
"But (assistant) coaches like (Jerry) Wainwright and Jeff (Reynolds) always want me to sit down and talk to him about getting in a little bit earlier and getting a rhythm because they feel like I help the team," Mayo said. "But I'm a guy who really doesn't get into all of that. Obviously every player wants to play a lot, but I want to see what he thinks is best for the team.
"I think he's starting to realize it a little bit. At the same time, I like to see the other guys get going and hopefully I can come in and be at the pace they're at."
Assistants telling the player to ask head coach for earlier playing time? Don't assistants advise the head coach on who should be playing and when to help the team?
"Buzz starting to realize it a bit?"
No judgements, seems a little odd...
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/todd-mayo-could-be-critical-in-marquette-stretch-run-b99194491z1-242683591.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/todd-mayo-could-be-critical-in-marquette-stretch-run-b99194491z1-242683591.html)
I also find those quotes a little weird about the playing time. But I think what is meant is that the assistant coaches are trying to motivate Todd to go out and want it a little more... like maybe we all know he has the skillset, but Buzz wants to see the fire out of him to want to go out and make an impact. Todd has that explosive ability but sometimes he seems to hide around in the background. We know he can be the guy and we want him to be the guy, but he's gotta want to be the guy.
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Wait a minute...
I sir would like to honor this comment with a tip of my cap.
Well done.
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I think it is very obvious from reading this is that they want Todd to grab a hold of things on an off the floor. Not only should he go out and be more aggressive on the floor, but talk to Buzz about what you want. Look, the coaching staff knows what is going on here - they talk all the time. (Buzz alluded as such during the radio show yesterday.) Todd is a junior who is going to be counted on heavily next year. Step up and say that you *want* it. Teachable moment.
I also find those quotes a little weird about the playing time. But I think what is meant is that the assistant coaches are trying to motivate Todd to go out and want it a little more... like maybe we all know he has the skillset, but Buzz wants to see the fire out of him to want to go out and make an impact. Todd has that explosive ability but sometimes he seems to hide around in the background. We know he can be the guy and we want him to be the guy, but he's gotta want to be the guy.
This is exactly how I took the quotes. Todd appears to be a very mellow individual (almost to a fault), can come across as very content and doesn't really have a "take charge" personality. Buzz and the coaches want him to want to be great, but only Todd really has control over that.
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To be honest, I'm just finding Ners laughable at this point. He could take the local weather report and turn it into a negative about Derrick Wilson.
Oh sweet, sweet irony.
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Oh sweet, sweet irony.
Really?
Tell me one time that I have taken a topic about one player, and morphed it into part of a constant negative refrain about another.
No need to respond promptly...because this search will take awhile. Good luck to you.
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Really?
Tell me one time that I have taken a topic about one player, and morphed it into part of a constant negative refrain about another.
No need to respond promptly...because this search will take awhile. Good luck to you.
It was more in reference to your unceasing defense of Wilson. Sorry for the prompt response.
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It was more in reference to your unceasing defense of Wilson. Sorry for the prompt response.
Oh....then it wasn't irony since I don't take discussions off topic like I was referring to.
And the fact that you think I have an "unceasing defense of Wilson" shows that you also have a reading problem.
Good luck to you.
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Oh....then it wasn't irony since I don't take discussions off topic like I was referring to.
And the fact that you think I have an "unceasing defense of Wilson" shows that you also have a reading problem.
Good luck to you.
Sultan, your numerous posts defending Wilson show that you have an "unceasing defense". We all just wish the lock down elite defender was so unceasing, but sheesh, "Archie just wore him down."
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Oh....then it wasn't irony since I don't take discussions off topic like I was referring to.
And the fact that you think I have an "unceasing defense of Wilson" shows that you also have a reading problem.
Good luck to you.
It's called abstracting. You should try it some day. I'm not going to argue the semantics of every one of your posts. You're a Wilson apologist. That's a fact.
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It's called abstracting. You should try it some day. I'm not going to argue the semantics of every one of your posts. You're a Wilson apologist. That's a fact.
You're projecting.
Somebody saying they don't think Dawson should get 30min. per game isn't automatically some sort of Wilson apologist.
Semantics matter in this case.
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You're projecting.
Somebody saying they don't think Dawson should get 30min. per game isn't automatically some sort of Wilson apologist.
Semantics matter in this case.
Amazing isn't it?
I have acknowledged that Wilson is playing too much...have said that Dawson should play more...flat out said that Derrick is average at best....
And I'm a Wilson apologist. ::)
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Amazing isn't it?
I have acknowledged that Wilson is playing too much...have said that Dawson should play more...flat out said that Derrick is average at best....
And I'm a Wilson apologist. ::)
Well, let's build some bridges folks.
We're probably all closer to the same opinion than we think.
#1 MU has not had very good play from the PG position.
#2 Buzz needs to find a better way to mix and match minutes to get more performance out of that position.
Easy. Peasy.
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Amazing isn't it?
I have acknowledged that Wilson is playing too much...have said that Dawson should play more...flat out said that Derrick is average at best....
And I'm a Wilson apologist. ::)
I suppose what it comes down to is: do you think Dawson should play more minutes than Wilson? Based on all of your posts, I'm guessing your response would be no. That's the rub. Period. And as far as a Wilson apologist, have you never lamented that Wilson is playing too much and it's not his fault, but that's what the circumstances dictate (due to [insert vice] of Dawson]? I'm almost postive you have, but I'm not going to do my homework, admittedly.
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I suppose what it comes down to is: do you think Dawson should play more minutes than Wilson? Based on all of your posts, I'm guessing your response would be no. That's the rub. Period. And as far as a Wilson apologist, have you never lamented that Wilson is playing too much and it's not his fault, but that's what the circumstances dictate (due to [insert vice] of Dawson]? I'm almost postive you have, but I'm not going to do my homework, admittedly.
You lose all credibility when you say "It's a fact" that the Sultan is an apologist, then in the next post say you won't do your homework.
It's not abstracting, it's not projecting, it comes across as bloviating.
And I generally agree with your point. It just carries no influence given your tactics.
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I suppose what it comes down to is: do you think Dawson should play more minutes than Wilson? Based on all of your posts, I'm guessing your response would be no. That's the rub. Period.
So because I don't want Dawson 20+ minutes I'm an "Derrick apologist" in your eyes? Whatever.
Complete lack of logic.
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I suppose what it comes down to is: do you think Dawson should play more minutes than Wilson? Based on all of your posts, I'm guessing your response would be no. That's the rub. Period. And as far as a Wilson apologist, have you never lamented that Wilson is playing too much and it's not his fault, but that's what the circumstances dictate (due to [insert vice] of Dawson]? I'm almost postive you have, but I'm not going to do my homework, admittedly.
There is a lot more nuance than your presenting here.
That's the problem when we start putting people in camps of "Pro-(insert player)" or "Anti- (insert player)"... or use terms like "apologist".
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Amazing isn't it?
I have acknowledged that Wilson is playing too much...have said that Dawson should play more...flat out said that Derrick is average at best....
And I'm a Wilson apologist. ::)
What you've said also is that we don't have a better PG on the roster than Derrick and he gives us out best chance to win. I, and 69 percent of fans disagree. We'd at least like to see John sink or swim because the seasons been sunk this far with our max minute player shooting 8 percent from 3 and 1 make all season. 48 percent from the FT line. Dawson must be freakin awful if he's not better than this...
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Forget about Wilson (cause, like, why hurt myself?). But Jake Thomas getting more minutes that Mayo is really getting old, especially when you see smart quotes like this from Todd.
Also, I don't get why we don't play Thomas and Mayo TOGETHER more. But Mayo should be way ahead of Thomas if they're fighting for PT for 1 position.
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You lose all credibility when you say "It's a fact" that the Sultan is an apologist, then in the next post say you won't do your homework.
Completely independent of one another.
It's not abstracting, it's not projecting, it comes across as bloviating.
Not really. I'm basing it off what I read over time.
And I generally agree with your point. It just carries no influence given your tactics.
So do me a solid and add in your non-bloviating, credible explanation for why you agree with me.
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Forget about Wilson (cause, like, why hurt myself?). But Jake Thomas getting more minutes that Mayo is really getting old, especially when you see smart quotes like this from Todd.
Also, I don't get why we don't play Thomas and Mayo TOGETHER more. But Mayo should be way ahead of Thomas if they're fighting for PT for 1 position.
I have suggested scraping Oxtule, and going with Gardner, Wilson, Thomas, Mayo and Wilson. Of course defensive match up dictate some of this, but it gets Davante on the block, and Mayo on the floor earlier.
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There is a lot more nuance than your presenting here.
That's the problem when we start putting people in camps of "Pro-(insert player)" or "Anti- (insert player)"... or use terms like "apologist".
There are two camps as far as I'm concerned. (1) Dawson should play more minutes than Wilson or (2) Wilson should play more minutes than Dawson. Whoever plays more minutes is who Buzz thinks gives us the best chance to win, per se. What nuances am I missing here?
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Most times it's good cop (assistants) and bad cop (head coach) when it comes to college basketball. It's always been this way, and just how it works (for nearly all programs).
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So because I don't want Dawson 20+ minutes I'm an "Derrick apologist" in your eyes? Whatever.
Complete lack of logic.
Whatever, scrap the apologist language, I don't care. What it comes down to is you want Wilson playing more than Dawson and I've seen nothing thus far this year to warrant that stance. You've dug in your heels on Wilson playing more than Dawson, and with each passing game you're looking more and more stubborn.
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There are two camps as far as I'm concerned. (1) Dawson should play more minutes than Wilson or (2) Wilson should play more minutes than Dawson. Whoever plays more minutes is who Buzz thinks gives us the best chance to win, per se. What nuances am I missing here?
The one that acknowledges that Wilson isn't performing well, and thinks that Dawson should get more minutes than he has.
Look, I think that Derrick should play about 25...Dawson 15. You are probably the opposite. We are arguing about 10-15 minutes here. I have never argued that Derrick should be getting 30+, should be guaranteed his position, and is all conference. IN FACT, I have mentioned that I would LOVE for Dawson to step up more consistently and take away Derrick's minutes. He just hasn't done so with consistency yet.
As I mentioned this morning the problem with this debate, like political debates in our country today, is that it is so black and white. There are shades of gray here.
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Whatever, scrap the apologist language, I don't care. What it comes down to is you want Wilson playing more than Dawson and I've seen nothing thus far this year to warrant that stance. You've dug in your heels on Wilson playing more than Dawson, and with each passing game you're looking more and more stubborn.
Each passing game? Dawson has clearly outplayed Derrick in only ONE of the last FOUR games. You guys are acting like Chris Paul is sitting on the bench or something.
Talk about stubborn....
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I, for one, am shocked that two people have different opinions on the internet.
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Whatever, scrap the apologist language, I don't care. What it comes down to is you want Wilson playing more than Dawson and I've seen nothing thus far this year to warrant that stance. You've dug in your heels on Wilson playing more than Dawson, and with each passing game you're looking more and more stubborn.
With each passing game, it is looking more and more ridiculous. Wilson is an "elite defender" according to Buzz, but Archie made him get tired, according to Buzz. No, Archie and whoever else Derrick guarded broke him down off the dribble all game. Others have had their way against Wilson. That is not an elite defender. In addition, the guy can't shoot well, specially beyond 10 feet, and cannot make FT"s at even a 50% clip. Sultan's attempts at defending the indefensible are definitely surreal.
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I have suggested scraping Oxtule, and going with Gardner, Wilson, Thomas, Mayo and Wilson. Of course defensive match up dictate some of this, but it gets Davante on the block, and Mayo on the floor earlier.
Agreed, but Taylor has done such a nice job in there lately I'd hate to leave him out. Best lineup I think is Wilson, Mayo, Jamil, Taylor, Gardner.
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Completely independent of one another.
Not really. I'm basing it off what I read over time.
So do me a solid and add in your non-bloviating, credible explanation for why you agree with me.
I'd be happy to:
1) Not independent. In your 3:05pm post, you follow up your "apologist...fact" post with "And as far as a Wilson apologist, have you never lamented that Wilson is playing too much and it's not his fault, but that's what the circumstances dictate (due to [insert vice] of Dawson]? I'm almost postive you have, but I'm not going to do my homework, admittedly" I'd like your explanation of how they are independent.
2) I'll accept that. Based upon your rationale, AFter reading your recent posts, I have concluded many of your posts come across as bloviation.
3) I believe Dawson should get addditional time. He appears to me to have a confidence on the court I hope/believe will develop into being the leader we so desparately need (which in the past Vander, Trent, Jae, Lazar and JFB did). He makes mistakes on defense, but given more game experience and hard work in practice, I hope he can reduce or eliminate. He also seems to have ice water in his veins when shooting, and no one on this team, IMHO(other than maybe JJJ and Deonte) has shown signs they want to take the big shot when needed.
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I'd be happy to:
1) Not independent. In your 3:05pm post, you follow up your "apologist...fact" post with "And as far as a Wilson apologist, have you never lamented that Wilson is playing too much and it's not his fault, but that's what the circumstances dictate (due to [insert vice] of Dawson]? I'm almost postive you have, but I'm not going to do my homework, admittedly" I'd like your explanation of how they are independent.
2) I'll accept that. Based upon your rationale, AFter reading your recent posts, I have concluded many of your posts come across as bloviation.
3) I believe Dawson should get addditional time. He appears to me to have a confidence on the court I hope/believe will develop into being the leader we so desparately need (which in the past Vander, Trent, Jae, Lazar and JFB did). He makes mistakes on defense, but given more game experience and hard work in practice, I hope he can reduce or eliminate. He also seems to have ice water in his veins when shooting, and no one on this team, IMHO(other than maybe JJJ and Deonte) has shown signs they want to take the big shot when needed.
I know why Dawson should play, the issue here, is why Wilson should not play since he keeps seeing the floor for big minutes for some inexplicable reason. And as far as taking the big shot, JJJ and Burton have never been in position to take a big shot, and the subject of this thread should be the poster boy for big shots on this 2013-2014 MU team. Mayo sent us into overtime @Gtown and single handedly gave this team 5 extra minutes against Nova.
And though I don't like being labeled as a bloviator, I'll fight to the death for your right to call me such.
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If I were Todd I would go tell Buzz that maybe he is 29% on 3s in league play but in the last two games he is 100% on big shots when we need them. Oh, and by the way, he's also our best FT shooter and the guy who is leading the team in minutes is shooting 8% on 3s, 39% from the field and 48% on free throws. It bothers me that it just seems like Buzz really likes Derrick. I'm not going to say Dawson or anyone else is a savior but Derrick is getting way too many minutes.
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Forget about Wilson (cause, like, why hurt myself?). But Jake Thomas getting more minutes that Mayo is really getting old, especially when you see smart quotes like this from Todd.
Also, I don't get why we don't play Thomas and Mayo TOGETHER more. But Mayo should be way ahead of Thomas if they're fighting for PT for 1 position.
+1
I've been saying this for awhile. Mayo is a slashing two guard while Thomas is a sniper. Neither is as effective without the other.
My personal opinion for our best rotation
1) D Wilson/Dawson (split time offense-defense)
2) Mayo (Should play almost whole game)
3) J Wilson (Should play the whole game)
4) S Taylor/Thomas/Anderson/Burton*
5) Gardner/Otule (Otule only enough time to keep Davante fresh)
*Obviously Jake/Juan/Burton won't play the four with Jamil in the game. Jamil switches to the 4 and these three play the 3. Thomas for threes, Anderson for defense, Burton for offense
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I, for one, am shocked that two people have different opinions on the internet.
And I believe everything I see there .... so it's really giving me a headache.
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I know why Dawson should play, the issue here, is why Wilson should not play since he keeps seeing the floor for big minutes for some inexplicable reason. And as far as taking the big shot, JJJ and Burton have never been in position to take a big shot, and the subject of this thread should be the poster boy for big shots on this 2013-2014 MU team. Mayo sent us into overtime @Gtown and single handedly gave this team 5 extra minutes against Nova.
And though I don't like being labeled as a bloviator, I'll fight to the death for your right to call me such.
Agree. Have a drink on me. I have zero problem with people disagreeing with me. Friction makes the world go round. I tire of internet shouting.
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+1
I've been saying this for awhile. Mayo is a slashing two guard while Thomas is a sniper. Neither is as effective without the other.
My personal opinion for our best rotation
1) D Wilson/Dawson (split time offense-defense)
2) Mayo (Should play almost whole game)
3) J Wilson (Should play the whole game)
4) S Taylor/Thomas/Anderson/Burton*
5) Gardner/Otule (Otule only enough time to keep Davante fresh)
*Obviously Jake/Juan/Burton won't play the four with Jamil in the game. Jamil switches to the 4 and these three play the 3. Thomas for threes, Anderson for defense, Burton for offense
Pretty good job. I agree Mayo, Jamil and Gardner should play as many minutes as they can, divide PG minutes fairly equal depending on who is getting job done better and the final spot goes to whatever is needed in that particular game. I would add that JJJ should back up Mayo for about 10 or so minutes a game at the '2'
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I sir would like to honor this comment with a tip of my cap.
Well done.
Hey thanks. I'm here all week.
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Well, let's build some bridges folks.
We're probably all closer to the same opinion than we think.
#1 MU has not had very consistently good play from the PG, SG, SF and PF positions.
#2 Buzz needs to find a better way to mix and match minutes to get more performance out of every position, except C. I think we are doing just fine at the C.
Easy. Peasy.
You missed a few things, which I have kindly added to your post.
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Agree. Have a drink on me. I have zero problem with people disagreeing with me. Friction makes the world go round. I tire of internet shouting.
Bottoms up, my friend.
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Agree. Have a drink on me. I have zero problem with people disagreeing with me. Friction makes the world go round. I tire of internet shouting.
Agreed. The voices in my head don't usually agree, why should I expect the rest of the world to?
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Bottoms up, my friend.
I did, I did again, and will again...
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There are two camps as far as I'm concerned. (1) Dawson should play more minutes than Wilson or (2) Wilson should play more minutes than Dawson. Whoever plays more minutes is who Buzz thinks gives us the best chance to win, per se. What nuances am I missing here?
The nuance is:
#1 Everybody recognizes that Derrick isn't Magic Johnson. We all agree.
#2 We also all agree that Buzz needs to find a way to get better performance out of the PG position. (Hell, all positions for that matter, but we're talking about PG).
#3 (and this is where the disagreement comes in) I don't believe that simply plugging J. Dawson in for 30mpg is the answer.
#4 I think Buzz needs to find a way to mix and match Dawson and Wilson to get the most performance. Theoretically, it would be a 25/15 split, with Buzz riding the hot hand for the night.
Nuance'd.
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The nuance is:
#1 Everybody recognizes that Derrick isn't Magic Johnson. We all agree.
#2 We also all agree that Buzz needs to find a way to get better performance out of the PG position. (Hell, all positions for that matter, but we're talking about PG).
#3 (and this is where the disagreement comes in) I don't believe that simply plugging J. Dawson in for 30mpg is the answer.
#4 I think Buzz needs to find a way to mix and match Dawson and Wilson to get the most performance. Theoretically, it would be a 25/15 split, with Buzz riding the hot hand for the night.
Nuance'd.
I'm not sure anybody is certain that Dawson is the answer. But it sure would be nice to know if he is or isn't by giving him the keys to the car for once. If he performs well and shows drastic improvement over a few games, then great--maybe he can get us through the BE tourney. If we give Dawson the keys and he performs like crap, then we lose games that we would have lost anyway and thus no harm done.
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I'm not sure anybody is certain that Dawson is the answer. But it sure would be nice to know if he is or isn't by giving him the keys to the car for once. If he performs well and shows drastic improvement over a few games, then great--maybe he can get us through the BE tourney. If we give Dawson the keys and he performs like crap, then we lose games that we would have lost anyway and thus no harm done.
This portion is where you completely lose me. You cannot make that claim. Logically, that is.
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This portion is where you completely lose me. You cannot make that claim. Logically, that is.
Honestly, giving 30+ minutes to Dawson last night might have very well resulted in a loss. I noticed he really didn't even guard Cotton when he was in the game.
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I'm not sure anybody is certain that Dawson is the answer. But it sure would be nice to know if he is or isn't by giving him the keys to the car for once. If he performs well and shows drastic improvement over a few games, then great--maybe he can get us through the BE tourney. If we give Dawson the keys and he performs like crap, then we lose games that we would have lost anyway and thus no harm done.
#1 What does "giving him the keys to the car" exactly mean? 15min? 35min? I can't remember a time where Buzz just handed a guy 30min so he could evaluate him. That's what practice is for. Games are for winning. Distribute minutes based upon match-ups and player performance.
#2 I'm not sure a Wilson/Dawson combo means MU is going to lose.
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#1 What does "giving him the keys to the car" exactly mean? 15min? 35min? I can't remember a time where Buzz just handed a guy 30min so he could evaluate him. That's what practice is for. Games are for winning. Distribute minutes based upon match-ups and player performance.
#2 I'm not sure a Wilson/Dawson combo means MU is going to lose.
For the record, Wilson had a very nice game last night. Well done, young man.
Still a lot of issues with his offensive game, but when other guys are doing their thing and he's crushing it on defense, they're a lot less noticeable.
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Honestly, giving 30+ minutes to Dawson last night might have very well resulted in a loss. I noticed he really didn't even guard Cotton when he was in the game.
You can call me crazy here, but that's a loss that I'm willing to take if it means more in-game prep time for Dawson.
To be as explicit as possible here, I am and have been (since the Butler loss) working under two axioms:
1) We will not make the NCAAs unless we win the BE tourney.
2) We will not win the BE tourney with Derrick at the point (ie playing 30+ minutes)
I suppose I can hedge and say "likely not win" and "likely not make."
I am willing to entertain the notion that it is not Derrick that is the problem, but rather the combo of him and Jake together that have caused this season's problems. But at first blush I remain skeptical of this claim.
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For the record, Wilson had a very nice game last night. Well done, young man.
Still a lot of issues with his offensive game, but when other guys are doing their thing and he's crushing it on defense, they're a lot less noticeable.
Agreed, and anybody who thinks Derrick is magically "fixed" is an idiot. Derrick has flaws.
However, I think it's reasonable for everybody to realize that a combo of Derrick and Dawson is Buzz's best option. In the Georgetown game, Dawson was better, so Buzz rode him. Last night, Derrick was better.
This isn't unlike the Otule/Gardner situation in previous years.
Maybe everybody could back off the "Player X should get 30min!"?
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You can call me crazy here, but that's a loss that I'm willing to take if it means more in-game prep time for Dawson.
To be as explicit as possible here, I am and have been (since the Butler loss) working under two axioms:
1) We will not make the NCAAs unless we win the BE tourney.
2) We will not win the BE tourney with Derrick at the point (ie playing 30+ minutes)
I suppose I can hedge and say "likely not win" and "likely not make."
I am willing to entertain the notion that it is not Derrick that is the problem, but rather the combo of him and Jake together that have caused this season's problems. But at first blush I remain skeptical of this claim.
You're missing another option.
Buzz could mix and match Derrick and Dawson to maximize return, right?
It's not 30min. or nothing. The pie is 40min. It can be divided a lot of different ways.
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You can call me crazy here, but that's a loss that I'm willing to take if it means more in-game prep time for Dawson.
To be as explicit as possible here, I am and have been (since the Butler loss) working under two axioms:
1) We will not make the NCAAs unless we win the BE tourney.
2) We will not win the BE tourney with Derrick at the point (ie playing 30+ minutes)
I suppose I can hedge and say "likely not win" and "likely not make."
I am willing to entertain the notion that it is not Derrick that is the problem, but rather the combo of him and Jake together that have caused this season's problems. But at first blush I remain skeptical of this claim.
Well said...
There is no doubt the pairing of Derrick, Jake, Juan and Otule that Buzz rode so long was ridiculous and hurt everyone in that rotation..including Derrick and Jake.
Not hard to figure out the keys to the car analogy - 30+ minutes per game is the keys to the car. One player at PG has gotten that and has been marginal at best if we are putting it nicely. The other PG has gotten those 30 minutes once, and played very well.
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#1 What does "giving him the keys to the car" exactly mean? 15min? 35min? I can't remember a time where Buzz just handed a guy 30min so he could evaluate him. That's what practice is for. Games are for winning. Distribute minutes based upon match-ups and player performance.
#2 I'm not sure a Wilson/Dawson combo means MU is going to lose.
25 minutes at least. Buzz has also never been in a lame duck situation like he is right now. Ideally, we would have let Dawson work out his kinks against the cupcakes.
I agree that practice is the best replicator of game-time situations. But practice is not a perfect simulation of the game. No matter what Buzz and company does during practice, absolutely nothing can simulate game-time emotion, pressure, etc. like actual game minutes can (Favre, Brady, Young, etc).
Compound that with the fact that Dawson is constantly going up against D-wil every practice, getting the same schemes over and over. Pitting him against the likes of other PGs gives us crucial game tape to analyze to improve him, hopefully in time for the BE tourney (and as a bonus, next season).
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25 minutes at least. Buzz has also never been in a lame duck situation like he is right now. Ideally, we would have let Dawson work out his kinks against the cupcakes.
I agree that practice is the best replicator of game-time situations. But practice is not a perfect simulation of the game. No matter what Buzz and company does during practice, absolutely nothing can simulate game-time emotion, pressure, etc. like actual game minutes can (Favre, Brady, Young, etc).
Compound that with the fact that Dawson is constantly going up against D-wil every practice, getting the same schemes over and over. Pitting him against the likes of other PGs gives us crucial game tape to analyze to improve him, hopefully in time for the BE tourney (and as a bonus, next season).
25min?
Well, I'll just fundamentally disagree with you.
I think both players have some flaws, so Buzz's best option is to mix and match them to get the optimized performance. It's not a perfect science, but I think it's the best option.
Sometimes that might be 25min for Dawson, sometimes it might be less that 15.
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You can call me crazy here, but that's a loss that I'm willing to take if it means more in-game prep time for Dawson.
There is not a single good basketball coach in the country that thinks this way.
Not hard to figure out the keys to the car analogy - 30+ minutes per game is the keys to the car. One player at PG has gotten that and has been marginal at best if we are putting it nicely. The other PG has gotten those 30 minutes once, and played very well.
So you are *still* suggesting this is a good idea??? Unbelievable. Buzz knows what's going on. He sees it in practice. I mean, Juan has hardly been playing. Let's run him 30+ minutes and see what results! What's the worst that can happen?
However, I think it's reasonable for everybody to realize that a combo of Derrick and Dawson is Buzz's best option. In the Georgetown game, Dawson was better, so Buzz rode him. Last night, Derrick was better.
Well stated.
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There is not a single good basketball coach in the country that thinks this way.
So you are *still* suggesting this is a good idea??? Unbelievable. Buzz knows what's going on. He sees it in practice. I mean, Juan has hardly been playing. Let's run him 30+ minutes and see what results! What's the worst that can happen?
Well stated.
I see the point you are trying to make and I disagree for two reasons.
1) I feel comfortable with the sample size that we have with Juan
2) More importantly, playing Juan for 30+ minutes is bad because of the high opportunity cost that accompanies that decision--those are minutes that could be used to develop JJJ and/or Burton.
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I see the point you are trying to make and I disagree for two reasons.
1) I feel comfortable with the sample size that we have with Juan
2) More importantly, playing Juan for 30+ minutes is bad because of the high opportunity cost that accompanies that decision--those are minutes that could be used to develop JJJ and/or Burton.
I knew #1 was going to be your response. It isn't about *your* comfort in the sample size. It's about Buzz's.
This is what I think it boils down for a lot of you. You haven't seen enough John Dawson, and therefore he should play more. But the coaches *have* seen him...and have made the decision to give him 10 or so minutes per game.
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Bump.
In hindsight, what do we make of the assistants telling Todd, not Buzz, but Todd, that he should be playing more?
Was Buzz both a prima donna and an absolute dictator? Were the assistants afraid of him? Were they yes-men?
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Oh....then it wasn't irony since I don't take discussions off topic like I was referring to.
And the fact that you think I have an "unceasing defense of Wilson" shows that you also have a reading problem.
Good luck to you.
I think, looking back, it's fitting for Buzz to surround himself with experience (insecurity?) and never (rarely?) with a younger, up and coming coach to take under his wing.
Chew may have been the closest he has come to it.
Monarch? No.
Autry? Puh-lease.
Benford? Possibly the only one, but he was already a potential D-1 coach.