I know with the season in full swing this has been put on the backburner, but has anyone heard about the possibility of adding 2 more teams this offseason. I know initially that was the plan, with St. Louis, Dayton, Richmond etc.. all possibilities, but I remember hearing something in October that moving to 12 wasn't a for sure thing. Just wondering if anyone has any updates or when we could expect talks to pick up. Maybe this is something for the summer, I don't know.
Quote from: mu35577 on January 24, 2014, 07:35:50 AM
I know with the season in full swing this has been put on the backburner, but has anyone heard about the possibility of adding 2 more teams this offseason. I know initially that was the plan, with St. Louis, Dayton, Richmond etc.. all possibilities, but I remember hearing something in October that moving to 12 wasn't a for sure thing. Just wondering if anyone has any updates or when we could expect talks to pick up. Maybe this is something for the summer, I don't know.
I don't think it has been ruled out but the understanding I have is that it has been tabled for at least a couple years.
Makes sense to establish what we have for a year or three before adding more. I hope that's how the powers-to-be are thinking, too.
I think SLU is in no matter what, but I'd like to see if they have staying power in the post-Majerus era. So far its looking good.
What do people think about UMASS? I know its a state school, but they are having a hell of a year, and it adds another east coast team. Also a decent amount of history and tradition there.
Otherwise, VCU, Richmond or Dayton are the other contenders for the 12th school.
#ABD
Quote from: Bleuteaux on January 24, 2014, 09:13:52 AM
Otherwise, VCU, Richmond or Dayton are the other contenders for the 12th school.
UD fans just got hard at the notion of being contenders for ANYTHING
#ABD
My understanding is that any action regarding going to 12 teams has been "tabled," but the topic is still very much open for discussion and consideration, and there were provisions within the FS1 contract negotiated specifically regarding if the BE should elect to expand to 12 or 14 teams (i.e. not a contractual requirement that the BE expand, but an outline of how the contract is to be amended should schools T, U, V, W, X, Y, and/or Z be added at some point.)
Speculation: The BE has identified several candidates for expansion and has had preliminary conversations with the powers-that-be at those institutions, the material portion of those discussions being that the BE is open to expanding but is being very selective and wants to see demonstrated commitment to the basketball program from the candidates. Call it a "try-out" if you will... not in terms of performance, but in terms of how dedicated are you, [SLU, Dayton, Richmond, etc.], going to be to competing in basketball at a high-major level over the long term.
IMO -- I doubt anyone is added for 2014-15, although I think there's a 50-50 chance that two teams are added in 2015-16. Barring the unforeseen or unlikely (e.g. G-Town adding FBS football and going to the ACC, B?G adding basketball-only members), I think it's a near certainty that the BE has at least 12 teams by 2016-17 season. I also think the front runners are: Richmond, SLU, Dayton, Wichita St., VCU, and St. Joe's... I also think that some other schools, perhaps amongst the likes of NDSU, SDakSU, Belmont, Davidson, Bucknell, UMASS, Geo Mason, Indiana St., WKU, Loyola MD, St. Bonnie's, Valpo, Fordham, etc. have been mentioned but are not under serious consideration (i.e. extreme long shots) at this time.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on January 24, 2014, 09:13:52 AM
I think SLU is in no matter what, but I'd like to see if they have staying power in the post-Majerus era. So far its looking good.
What do people think about UMASS? I know its a state school, but they are having a hell of a year, and it adds another east coast team.
Otherwise, VCU, Richmond or Dayton are the other contenders for the 12th school.
UMASS has football and they play in the MAC.
I almost think they go more than 12 and I have no specific reason at all why I think that? In regards to VCU, Richmond or Dayton, I think a school who's an affilate member in a Big East sport has a chance to become full-time also (Denver?).
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 24, 2014, 09:34:48 AM
UMASS has football and they play in the MAC.
I almost think they go more than 12 and I have no specific reason at all why I think that? In regards to VCU, Richmond or Dayton, I think a school who's an affilate member in a Big East sport has a chance to become full-time also (Denver?).
Should not go more than 12 schools.
It is my opinion that they want to add SLU, but can't decide on #12 so they haven't pulled the trigger. The poor year the conference is having may make them consider moving on SLU+1, but I don't see it this off-season. Had we gone to 12 for this year we would miss out on the round robin, but would likely have at least one more tournament team with the possibility of 2 (SLU a lock, VCU probably in, UD probably just out, UR probably just out).
I think the conference will stall until they can find a way to feasibly lure Gonzaga out east
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 24, 2014, 10:18:21 AM
I think the conference will stall until they can find a way to feasibly lure Gonzaga out east
That's the problem. That's obviously everyone's first choice, but to quote an old New England axiom "you can't get there from here" will never make it feasible.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 24, 2014, 09:34:48 AM
UMASS has football and they play in the MAC.
So they do. I thought they were FCS. Nevermind.
I feel like if SLU is already assumed in, the 12th team is going to have to come from the East Coast. This would maintain the balance of midwest/east coast schools (currently 5/5). Thus Dayton is on the outside looking in, and its between VCU or Richmond.
SLU is #19 at 18-2 (5-0) with only losses to UW (6 points) and Wichita State (5 points). They won in Dayton.
Richmond is 13-6 (3-1) and just pulled an upset on #13 UMass. They also beat Dayton.
Solid auditions so far.
Quote from: chapman on January 24, 2014, 10:48:21 AM
SLU is #19 at 18-2 (5-0) with only losses to UW (6 points) and Wichita State (5 points). They won in Dayton.
Richmond is 13-6 (3-1) and just pulled an upset on #13 UMass. They also beat Dayton.
Solid auditions so far.
This is a theory that I think about every now and again; I've wondered from time to time if the presidents are stalling and praying that UR does something to justify taking them over Dayton and VCU. It might sound ridiculous, but when you think about it these are school presidents. Basketball is important, but so are academics. Adding UR and SLU gives the Big East 2 more highly ranked universities, both private, one non-Catholic (nice for Butler), endowments of $1.87 billion and $970 million (which would be ranked #1 and #3 in the conference respectively). Those two institutions add a lot of academic prestige to the conference, whereas VCU and Dayton would add much less.
Im a big fan of Richmond. The league should go no more then 12 though so if that means taking a couple of years to decide who would be the best fit I am all for that. No need to rush into things.
I am clearly on the outside looking in on this one, but I personally will never understand why we dont invite 2 of memphis, Uconn, or cinncinnati in and let them be 11 & 12 until they ultimately secure a better final resting place.
It would be wonderful for BE basketball.
And everyone involved knows its a temporary waypoint that benefits both sides in the interim.
i could see why maybe Uconn and the other 2 may not want to do it for football purposes, but they can probably find a place to house their football teams until they find a better ultimate resting place and it has to help the bball programs immensly until that point.
i just think it would be really good for the confernece and have no threat or downside to the future of the BE.
Quote from: River rat on January 24, 2014, 03:05:18 PM
I am clearly on the outside looking in on this one, but I personally will never understand why we dont invite 2 of memphis, Uconn, or cinncinnati in and let them be 11 & 12 until they ultimately secure a better final resting place.
It would be wonderful for BE basketball.
And everyone involved knows its a temporary waypoint that benefits both sides in the interim.
i could see why maybe Uconn and the other 2 may not want to do it for football purposes, but they can probably find a place to house their football teams until they find a better ultimate resting place and it has to help the bball programs immensly until that point.
i just think it would be really good for the confernece and have no threat or downside to the future of the BE.
Would the AAC let them do that and continue to play football in the AAC? I doubt it.
Quote from: River rat on January 24, 2014, 03:05:18 PM
but they can probably find a place to house their football teams until they find a better ultimate resting place and it has to help the bball programs immensly until that point.
And then when that happens, we're back in the same spot trying to fill teams in the BE. I would much rather have stability and get two teams with no threat of leaving. I'm all for SLU, but undecided on Dayton or Richmond at the moment
Quote from: chapman on January 24, 2014, 10:48:21 AM
SLU is #19 at 18-2 (5-0) with only losses to UW (6 points) and Wichita State (5 points). They won in Dayton.
Richmond is 13-6 (3-1) and just pulled an upset on #13 UMass. They also beat Dayton.
Solid auditions so far.
Next year will be the real SLU "audition". That's their first year without Majerus recruits dominating the team. At the start of the year, SLU had six players who played in all 35 games last year, including three who started all 35 games. All six players are seniors. Next year Crews will be starting over with almost all his own players. I'd be surprised if they get into the top 6 of the Atlantic 10 next year.
Quote from: River rat on January 24, 2014, 03:05:18 PM
I am clearly on the outside looking in on this one, but I personally will never understand why we dont invite 2 of memphis, Uconn, or cinncinnati in and let them be 11 & 12 until they ultimately secure a better final resting place.
It would be wonderful for BE basketball.
And everyone involved knows its a temporary waypoint that benefits both sides in the interim.
i could see why maybe Uconn and the other 2 may not want to do it for football purposes, but they can probably find a place to house their football teams until they find a better ultimate resting place and it has to help the bball programs immensly until that point.
i just think it would be really good for the confernece and have no threat or downside to the future of the BE.
When the "new" Big East was being formed, there was talk that UConn and Cinci proposed that very thing. If true, it was turned down, and now that the AAC has been put together that ship has almost certainly sailed. Most scoopers couldn't understand why schools would form a new league for stability and then invite teams that they knew were going to eventually leave anyway. Instability was what the Big East wanted to leave behind.
I would be very surprised to see any expansion within the next couple of years. I really don't see a compelling need for it unless Fox is clamoring for more product to chose from.
Quote from: River rat on January 24, 2014, 03:05:18 PM
I am clearly on the outside looking in on this one, but I personally will never understand why we dont invite 2 of memphis, Uconn, or cinncinnati in and let them be 11 & 12 until they ultimately secure a better final resting place.
The AAC is their final resting place. Unless more schools switch among the larger conferences, those schools aren't going anywhere. Especially since those schools all will have access to the College Football Playoff, as well as access to the top paying bowls, through the selection committee process.
I anticipate this discussion will pop up until expansion actually happens. IMO, there are certain things to keep in mind when discussing possible new teams.
1. Football = Non-starter.
2. State school = Non-starter Though I think there would be a micron more flexibility on this one.
3. There is no hurry.
4. Don't dilute the product. IOW, No merge with the A-10, creating 3 divisions......yaddayadda
5. The whole point of this configuration is stability.
Quote from: tower912 on January 24, 2014, 03:48:52 PM
I anticipate this discussion will pop up until expansion actually happens. IMO, there are certain things to keep in mind when discussing possible new teams.
1. Football = Non-starter.
2. State school = Non-starter Though I think there would be a micron more flexibility on this one.
3. There is no hurry.
4. Don't dilute the product. IOW, No merge with the A-10, creating 3 divisions......yaddayadda
5. The whole point of this configuration is stability.
Merge with the A-10 and MVC. Each season the top 3 teams in the middle and lower division get promoted to the upper and middle division. The bottom three in the top and middle division get demoted to the middle and lower division.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on January 24, 2014, 04:02:10 PM
Merge with the A-10 and MVC. Each season the top 3 teams in the middle and lower division get promoted to the upper and middle division. The bottom three in the top and middle division get demoted to the middle and lower division.
No. Why would any BE school agree to do this? They are top dogs already.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on January 24, 2014, 04:02:10 PM
Merge with the A-10 and MVC. Each season the top 3 teams in the middle and lower division get promoted to the upper and middle division. The bottom three in the top and middle division get demoted to the middle and lower division.
I guess you Creighton guys are getting more TV revenue than you know what to do with, and need to dilute the amount down
a lot to rescue yourself from that predicament.
I wasn't actually serious...
Quote from: River rat on January 24, 2014, 03:05:18 PM
I am clearly on the outside looking in on this one, but I personally will never understand why we dont invite 2 of memphis, Uconn, or cinncinnati in and let them be 11 & 12 until they ultimately secure a better final resting place.
It would be wonderful for BE basketball.
And everyone involved knows its a temporary waypoint that benefits both sides in the interim.
i could see why maybe Uconn and the other 2 may not want to do it for football purposes, but they can probably find a place to house their football teams until they find a better ultimate resting place and it has to help the bball programs immensly until that point.
i just think it would be really good for the confernece and have no threat or downside to the future of the BE.
Who in their right mind would take those two for football only? Their value is basketball. UCONN has had their moments with football, but no conference worth its weight it going to take those football only programs, makes no sense. Then, you factor who is in the current Big East and I can tell you the academics at Memphis isn't going to be one that the current schools come running to embrace.
I'd love for Saint Louis to receive an invite to the conference (fits the institutional profile, market and basketball tradition) but I also realize that time is definitely on the Big East's side. They can afford to wait and see where the cards fall.
Dayton doesn't do it for me, and neither does Richmond or VCU (I honestly do not think they are a realistic option - as a state institution, the desire for football expansion will be there). Gonzaga is too far west, so I'm not sure what that leaves.
Who knows? Maybe the NCAA-breakaway leaves UCONN and the AAC on the outside looking in. With realignment talks seemingly tabled, perhaps that they consider moving all sports to the Big East (and football to MAC?). Pipe dream, I know...
I still don't know why people see state school and automatically think they will get FBS football. Georgetown, VIllanova, and Butler are MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger risks to get football considering they already have FCS teams. VCU has a club team.
Unless your are in one of the power 6 conferences, or you are dominating the MWC every year, there is little profit to be made by FBS football. It's much easier and more profitable to stay in FCS.
Quote from: LittleMurs on January 24, 2014, 03:36:26 PM
When the "new" Big East was being formed, there was talk that UConn and Cinci proposed that very thing. If true, it was turned down, and now that the AAC has been put together that ship has almost certainly sailed. Most scoopers couldn't understand why schools would form a new league for stability and then invite teams that they knew were going to eventually leave anyway. Instability was what the Big East wanted to leave behind.
Personally, my belief is that by adding 2 teams designated as temporary or potentially moving on that when they do move on i am not sure how that creates instability when they were add ons ie 11 and 12 and we are fine with going back to 10. If something is anticipated is it then unexpected? Additonally in the meantime the conference bball and the 2 associate members bball is significantly enhanced. personally i would be all over exploring that option if i was a BE AD. The problem with the od BE was the football schools grew from a few to half.
Quote from: River rat on January 29, 2014, 11:02:52 AM
Personally, my belief is that by adding 2 teams designated as temporary or potentially moving on that when they do move on i am not sure how that creates instability when they were add ons ie 11 and 12 and we are fine with going back to 10. If something is anticipated is it then unexpected? Additonally in the meantime the conference bball and the 2 associate members bball is significantly enhanced. personally i would be all over exploring that option if i was a BE AD. The problem with the od BE was the football schools grew from a few to half.
But where would those schools park their football programs in the meantime?
It's just not going to happen...and never will.
UMass plays A10 basketball and MAC football.
Temple did the same.
Quote from: Atticus on January 29, 2014, 11:17:19 AM
UMass plays A10 basketball and MAC football.
Temple did the same.
Why would UC and UConn want to downgrade their football conference affiliation?
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 29, 2014, 11:58:03 AM
Why would UC and UConn want to downgrade their football conference affiliation?
I didn't suggest they would.
after Louisville and Rutgers leave AAC in football can they really go any lower??
Quote from: River rat on January 29, 2014, 12:35:55 PM
after Louisville and Rutgers leave AAC in football can they really go any lower??
Yeah the AAC is miles ahead of the MAC - their champion won a BCS game this year. The MAC is terrible.
Quote from: striker14 on January 24, 2014, 10:56:08 AM
This is a theory that I think about every now and again; I've wondered from time to time if the presidents are stalling and praying that UR does something to justify taking them over Dayton and VCU. It might sound ridiculous, but when you think about it these are school presidents. Basketball is important, but so are academics. Adding UR and SLU gives the Big East 2 more highly ranked universities, both private, one non-Catholic (nice for Butler), endowments of $1.87 billion and $970 million (which would be ranked #1 and #3 in the conference respectively). Those two institutions add a lot of academic prestige to the conference, whereas VCU and Dayton would add much less.
As the conference reconfigurations have happened over recent years, it seems more and more obvious that these truly are ATHLETIC conferences, and that two key things that lead to conferences of years past--geographic proximity and academic similarity--have fallen much lower on the list of criteria for affiliation. (One could argue that the New Big East was driven by similar religious backgrounds, but I think it was much more important that the breakaway schools were all basketball-only; if UConn hadn't had football, they'd definitely still be part of the NBE).
Thus, I question how much academic prestige would lead the conference to lean towards UR and SLU over VCU and Dayton. Just like we all acknowledge the the distance to Spokane, Wash is essentially a deal breaker for Gonzaga.
SLU and Richmond please. Could use a few more games to watch.