As a Wisconsin native living in Seattle the last twenty years who has followed Marquette quite seriously the last decade I feel like sharing my thoughts regarding this team compared particularly to Buzz's previous squads after this unnecessary loss to Butler.
1. As much as I love his talent, Jamil Wilson is the problem with this team. He's our most talented player who settles for mid to long range jumpers until the game is out of hand. While I can't speak personally about the kid, it's apparent he's a quality role player who struggles with being the team leader on the floor.
2. Our team settles for jump shots and ignores Gardner with the game on the line. How can a kid who dominates with his post moves for the first thirty minutes of play be ignored during crunch time? While not an above the rim player, I would require high school post players to watch his footwork and offensive moves. How our offense works so well through him throughout the game only to see him as an afterthought during the waning minutes is a travesty.
3. Todd Mayo should get more minutes. Forget his poor shooting night tonight, this is our best pure scorer outside of Gardner. During overtime he's our only player capable of making difficult shots quickly. He's aggressive, has a knack for finding the basket, and is our only real threat in the transition game.
4. Our player rotations/lineups are terrible and don't accentuate our strengths. While the Gardner-Otule combo has aided us in the past against teams like the Cuse and Gtown, it doesn't help the strength of our team this year. It's so obvious it's painful to see Buzz role out the same line ups game after game. In my opinion our offense has to revolve around two players and they are Gardner and Mayo. If Todd's not a starter fine, but taylor your rotations around your two best scorers.
5. I still feel like this team can get it together and make a huge run. Let's face it: this team has more talent than last year on paper. It's part of what's so frustrating. This team could easily have 4 losses but it needs Jamil Wilson to either decide if he's a leader or a role player and Buzz to decide that not all your best practice players equate to game time victories.
1 - agree
2 - agree strongly. they fall in love with the outside shot way too easily in games. which wouldn't be as big a problem if they could make outside shots.
3 - which one - Dr. Todd Jeckyl or Mr. Todd Hyde? Can't really tell which one is going to show up from game to game.
4 - not sure... i've seen good points about importance of making players earn minutes with hard work, etc. and I want to trust Buzz on the playing time, but the 5 on the floor can be confusing at times to an outside observer.
5 - getting mighty close to needing to win the BET or stay home in March for the first time in almost a decade.
I'm sure others are going to have at this post of yours and I'm too tired to go point-by-point through it, so I'll just deal with the last point:
Why would you think this team has more talent than last year's team?
Last year, we had a go-to guy in Vander who was consistently good and occasionally great. Some folks here like to compare Mayo to him, and as soon as Mayo has three good games in a row (let alone a dozen, as Vander had) I might start to listen.
Last year, we had a PG who could break down a defense, who could create for himself and others, and who defenses had to respect, thereby creating passing lanes. Junior was not a star but he made himself a reliable high-major PG. And compared to Derrick, he was a superstar -- and I say this after one of Derrick's best games.
If you're saying that the freshmen make us a more talented team, that's a stretch. One thing we do know is that none was more highly rated coming out of high school than Vander, who offensively was a train wreck as a freshman. In one of your points you talk about how talented Jamil is but lament that it all too often is talent only on paper; isn't the same true of our freshmen?
Last year, over time, our team developed a nice chemistry and cohesion, as well as a dependable rotation. All of it started (and often ended) with the backcourt. This year's backcourt is light years behind last year's in proven talent, and that is the only talent I care about.
Potential means nothing until it is realized. Vander learned that the hard way, but he DID learn it. We'll see if we can say the same about any of today's "talent" a year or two from now.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on January 19, 2014, 12:38:19 AM
As a Wisconsin native living in Seattle the last twenty years who has followed Marquette quite seriously the last decade I feel like sharing my thoughts regarding this team compared particularly to Buzz's previous squads after this unnecessary loss to Butler.
1. As much as I love his talent, Jamil Wilson is the problem with this team. He's our most talented player who settles for mid to long range jumpers until the game is out of hand. While I can't speak personally about the kid, it's apparent he's a quality role player who struggles with being the team leader on the floor.
2. Our team settles for jump shots and ignores Gardner with the game on the line. How can a kid who dominates with his post moves for the first thirty minutes of play be ignored during crunch time? While not an above the rim player, I would require high school post players to watch his footwork and offensive moves. How our offense works so well through him throughout the game only to see him as an afterthought during the waning minutes is a travesty.
3. Todd Mayo should get more minutes. Forget his poor shooting night tonight, this is our best pure scorer outside of Gardner. During overtime he's our only player capable of making difficult shots quickly. He's aggressive, has a knack for finding the basket, and is our only real threat in the transition game.
4. Our player rotations/lineups are terrible and don't accentuate our strengths. While the Gardner-Otule combo has aided us in the past against teams like the Cuse and Gtown, it doesn't help the strength of our team this year. It's so obvious it's painful to see Buzz role out the same line ups game after game. In my opinion our offense has to revolve around two players and they are Gardner and Mayo. If Todd's not a starter fine, but taylor your rotations around your two best scorers.
5. I still feel like this team can get it together and make a huge run. Let's face it: this team has more talent than last year on paper. It's part of what's so frustrating. This team could easily have 4 losses but it needs Jamil Wilson to either decide if he's a leader or a role player and Buzz to decide that not all your best practice players equate to game time victories.
I agree with much of what you wrote, but the bolded I don't think is accurate.
Last year we lost, Vander Blue (got NBA camp invites), Lockett (got NBA camp invites) and Junior (even he got NBA camp invites). There replacements have been Mayo (may get NBA camp invites in the future...not there yet), Juan (likely will never sniff the NBA, definitely a long way from there right now) and Derek (not a chance).
We did bring in three freshman that all have a lot of talent. But they are freshman and nowhere near the level of Vander, Lockett and Junior.
This long time Warrior fan has a more basic observation.
The hallmark of Coach Williams for the last five years has been flexibility. That is, his tactics and playing style has been adapted to the talent on hand. Some years, it has taken longer than in other years, but he has always made the necessary "mid-course" corrections.
I might be missing something, but it would appear that this year he is doggedly staying with one style and trying to get his players to adapt to it, or, at the very least, not putting in players that best can execute that style (as in, for goodness sakes, play small!).
Said in another way, the bottle with the sand has been knocked over, and we are all waiting for the Coach to show us his real character.
no way this team is better than last years, on paper, or on the floor. vander(we all know what he did), cadougan(pretty solid floor leader who could score if needed), gardener(had better year last year), trent lockett was solid but not spectacular, jamil still filled the holes. appreciate your enthusiasm from seattle matty, but the rain and lack of sunshine must be getting to ya-try some vitamin D ;D
Thank you for a solid first post unlike the usual "Buzz is Dumb" first time posts.
Quote from: UticaBusBarn on January 19, 2014, 07:06:19 AM
This long time Warrior fan has a more basic observation.
The hallmark of Coach Williams for the last five years has been flexibility. That is, his tactics and playing style has been adapted to the talent on hand. Some years, it has taken longer than in other years, but he has always made the necessary "mid-course" corrections.
I might be missing something, but it would appear that this year he is doggedly staying with one style and trying to get his players to adapt to it, or, at the very least, not putting in players that best can execute that style (as in, for goodness sakes, play small!).
Said in another way, the bottle with the sand has been knocked over, and we are all waiting for the Coach to show us his real character.
I think he is adapting, just hasn't found it yet. We started out the year as a grind it out, slow it down offense. I think we did that, because it suited D. Wilson better. And Buzz figured with the two really good bigs, that would be our best option.
The problem was the rest of the team didn't play well in that type of slow-it-down offense. The last couple games we have been looking to speed it up. Advance the ball quickly and take open shots when they are there (no more paint touch rule). Create open looks for your shooters, Mayo/Jake, by setting picks from the bigs, who can then roll to the basket to post up. Those are all new offensive elements that work to some degree. That was working today in the 1st half, then Butler was really hustling back and we quit making shots (need to make your open looks if you are taking first open look).
Quote from: UticaBusBarn on January 19, 2014, 07:06:19 AM
This long time Warrior fan has a more basic observation.
The hallmark of Coach Williams for the last five years has been flexibility. That is, his tactics and playing style has been adapted to the talent on hand. Some years, it has taken longer than in other years, but he has always made the necessary "mid-course" corrections.
I might be missing something, but it would appear that this year he is doggedly staying with one style and trying to get his players to adapt to it, or, at the very least, not putting in players that best can execute that style (as in, for goodness sakes, play small!).
Said in another way, the bottle with the sand has been knocked over, and we are all waiting for the Coach to show us his real character.
You do know that Buzz has changed the starting lineups half a dozen times this year...more than he usually does. The rotations have changed repeatedly. Dawson's minutes have gone up. Juan's have gone down. He's running screens for Jake. What more do you want him to change?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 19, 2014, 10:38:41 AM
You do know that Buzz has changed the starting lineups half a dozen times this year...more than he usually does. The rotations have changed repeatedly. Dawson's minutes have gone up. Juan's have gone down. He's running screens for Jake. What more do you want him to change?
Well, off the top of my head, Coach Williams might want to consider changing the point guard. To be more radical, he might want to go small and young.
Quote from: UticaBusBarn on January 19, 2014, 11:15:22 AM
Well, off the top of my head, Coach Williams might want to consider changing the point guard. To be more radical, he might want to go small and young.
He has. Dawson's playing time has increased and besides X he didn't really show much. Jamil got the start and he looked awful, 6 TOs I believe.
And the frosh have played together several times this season. They have been our worst possesions of the season.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 19, 2014, 08:42:29 AM
Thank you for a solid first post unlike the usual "Buzz is Dumb" first time posts.
What do you mean? Willie is over 3000 posts.
Your level should be at severe.
Mattyv----You're correct about Jamil. He should be taking charge and Gardner gets ball at crunch time.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 19, 2014, 10:38:41 AM
You do know that Buzz has changed the starting lineups half a dozen times this year...more than he usually does. The rotations have changed repeatedly. Dawson's minutes have gone up. Juan's have gone down. He's running screens for Jake. What more do you want him to change?
Juan hasnt taken a shot in weeks.. he appears uneasy out there.... idk whats goin on...
IDk how you think this years team has more talent.
Heck we can even forget Vander even exists when making this comparison.
Junior and Trent look like LeBron freaking James compared to Derrick and Juan.
Quote from: forgetful on January 19, 2014, 02:00:46 AM
I agree with much of what you wrote, but the bolded I don't think is accurate.
Last year we lost, Vander Blue (got NBA camp invites), Lockett (got NBA camp invites) and Junior (even he got NBA camp invites). There replacements have been Mayo (may get NBA camp invites in the future...not there yet), Juan (likely will never sniff the NBA, definitely a long way from there right now) and Derek (not a chance).
We did bring in three freshman that all have a lot of talent. But they are freshman and nowhere near the level of Vander, Lockett and Junior.
Sad thing about this is you were even kind and used Mayo....when its Jake in Vanders spot.
.............
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 19, 2014, 10:38:41 AM
You do know that Buzz has changed the starting lineups half a dozen times this year...more than he usually does. The rotations have changed repeatedly. Dawson's minutes have gone up. Juan's have gone down. He's running screens for Jake. What more do you want him to change?
How about:
1. Different PG so that defenses do not pack the middle and take away the entire inside game.
2. Give Juan's minutes to Taylor or JJJ or Burton
3. Play Mayo and Thomas/JJJ at Guard to open up the inside game
4. Try more full court pressing
5. Stop BSing about Derrick being a stud game changer
6.More fast breaks
Just a few more things that could be changed.
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 19, 2014, 11:39:10 AM
Juan hasnt taken a shot in weeks.. he appears uneasy out there.... idk whats goin on...
Agreed. Defenses are playing him at or below the free throw line when he has the ball at the top of the arc now, as they have been with Wilson. Without the ability to make them pay, it makes it real hard to get anything easy inside, or even get the ball inside at all.
If Vander were here as a senior.... Marquette would have at least 3-4 more wins.... easily, but he's not...
so we gotta go with whose here...
Guys who wouldn't start for ANY other team in the conference are playing over 30 Minutes and lack of production leads us to where we are at as the proverbial laughing stock of the Big East.
This team is not going to beat Villanova, Providence or Georgetown twice each, unless something clicks and clicks very soon....
But as of now winning the NIT or even making it at this point is probably an up hill battle.
Duane wilson and Ahmed hill are coming next year along with Luke and company so help is on the way.
4-5 players graduating (wish Derrick was too) may be the best thing that can happen for this years team, so we can start next year with a core of young talented hungry players.......
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 19, 2014, 11:47:33 AM
Sad thing about this is you were even kind and used Mayo....when its Jake in Vanders spot.
.............
It wasn't being kind, although they play the same positions, Vander and Mayo are the same type of player, Jake is a shooter. We did not have a shooter on last years team to compare Jake to (besides Jake).
Jake has outplayed Mayo this year, no doubt about it.
I agree Jake has played well but Mayo is our biggest threat with the ball after DG. He can create off the dribble and people have to react quicker on him. Otherwise our perimeter passing is routine and teams know our passing tendencies. Glad I recorded the game and went to the beach instead. Just mind numbing how we give away leads in the second half after teams make their adjustments.
Quote from: elephantraker on January 19, 2014, 12:18:14 PM
I agree Jake has played well but Mayo is our biggest threat with the ball after DG. He can create off the dribble and people have to react quicker on him. Otherwise our perimeter passing is routine and teams know our passing tendencies. Glad I recorded the game and went to the beach instead. Just mind numbing how we give away leads in the second half after teams make their adjustments.
how todd mayo can score 19 one game and then 4 the next...
is mind boggling... he lacks consistency.... ala J.R. Smith..
Quote from: willie warrior on January 19, 2014, 11:52:33 AM
How about:
1. Different PG so that defenses do not pack the middle and take away the entire inside game.
2. Give Juan's minutes to Taylor or JJJ or Burton
3. Play Mayo and Thomas/JJJ at Guard to open up the inside game
4. Try more full court pressing
5. Stop BSing about Derrick being a stud game changer
6.More fast breaks
Just a few more things that could be changed.
1. Who?
2. Hurt, Hurt, and he did that already
3. Agreed expect it's Mayo/JJJ and Thomas. A slasher and a sniper at the same time.
4. Agreed
5. He is doing what he needs to. Derrick is clearly overwhelmed and needs some support from his coach
6. I think this is on the players not the coach. I don't think Buzz is telling them "if you have the chance for a fast break, don't take it."
Quote from: hairyworthen on January 19, 2014, 11:28:02 AM
Your level should be at severe.
Just got back from Indy. After reading Scoop you are correct.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on January 19, 2014, 12:38:19 AM
As a Wisconsin native living in Seattle the last twenty years who has followed Marquette quite seriously the last decade I feel like sharing my thoughts regarding this team compared particularly to Buzz's previous squads after this unnecessary loss to Butler.
1. As much as I love his talent, Jamil Wilson is the problem with this team. He's our most talented player who settles for mid to long range jumpers until the game is out of hand. While I can't speak personally about the kid, it's apparent he's a quality role player who struggles with being the team leader on the floor.
2. Our team settles for jump shots and ignores Gardner with the game on the line. How can a kid who dominates with his post moves for the first thirty minutes of play be ignored during crunch time? While not an above the rim player, I would require high school post players to watch his footwork and offensive moves. How our offense works so well through him throughout the game only to see him as an afterthought during the waning minutes is a travesty.
3. Todd Mayo should get more minutes. Forget his poor shooting night tonight, this is our best pure scorer outside of Gardner. During overtime he's our only player capable of making difficult shots quickly. He's aggressive, has a knack for finding the basket, and is our only real threat in the transition game.
4. Our player rotations/lineups are terrible and don't accentuate our strengths. While the Gardner-Otule combo has aided us in the past against teams like the Cuse and Gtown, it doesn't help the strength of our team this year. It's so obvious it's painful to see Buzz role out the same line ups game after game. In my opinion our offense has to revolve around two players and they are Gardner and Mayo. If Todd's not a starter fine, but taylor your rotations around your two best scorers.
5. I still feel like this team can get it together and make a huge run. Let's face it: this team has more talent than last year on paper. It's part of what's so frustrating. This team could easily have 4 losses but it needs Jamil Wilson to either decide if he's a leader or a role player and Buzz to decide that not all your best practice players equate to game time victories.
Matty
I am just heading out the door for the Hawks game at Buckley's in Belltown. Where do you live around here?
Quote from: forgetful on January 19, 2014, 12:08:25 PM
It wasn't being kind, although they play the same positions, Vander and Mayo are the same type of player, Jake is a shooter. We did not have a shooter on last years team to compare Jake to (besides Jake).
Jake has outplayed Mayo this year, no doubt about it.
Jake is the starter. The one getting vanders minutes. Simply put.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 19, 2014, 05:35:47 PM
Jake is the starter. The one getting vanders minutes. Simply put.
I am not sure about that. It certainly is possible that Derrick is getting Blue's minutes. Blue for as good as he was was not a true shooting guard. It would of been interesting to see him at point. Blue at point probably would of made Thomas more effective at the two. However, I liked how Derrick attacked the baskets on drives the last game. Hopefully, that continues.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 19, 2014, 05:35:47 PM
Jake is the starter. The one getting vanders minutes. Simply put.
Not really true. Yes Jake starts and Mayo doesn't, but Mayo still gets starters's minutes.
Our top 5 guys in minutes this year:
D Wilson: 29.9
Thomas: 27.1
J Wilson: 26.2
Gardner: 26.2
Mayo: 21.5
So essentially,our starting lineup is:
1: D Wilson
2: Mayo
3: Thomas
4: J Wilson
5: Gardner
Now I would agree that Mayo should get more minutes but he is a "starter"