This Butler game was God awful. If we lose to G'Town, think Buzz is going to have to just bite the bullet and roll with:
Dawson
Burton
JJJ
For 25 minutes a game. Let them get their growing pains in, experience, and hopefully we can right the ship next year. No more Otule, I'm fine with greatly limiting Jamil too.
I don't care if Burton made a couple of quick fouls today....on a day when we were absolutley offensively challenged, no reason to not play Burton for 10 minutes at minimum in second half.
Sorry Ners. After that debacle, the curtain has fallen for this year. Terrible leadership, and we definitely are limited with Derrick at the point. He cannot shoot FT's and the other team packs it in when he is in game, hindering the inside play.
That...was...a...classic...choke.
Quote from: Ners on January 18, 2014, 03:27:39 PM
I don't care if Burton made a couple of quick fouls today....on a day when we were absolutley offensively challenged, no reason to not play Burton for 10 minutes at minimum in second half.
I completely agree with this. An offensively challenged second half should have necessitated something...and Deonte's offense could have been that change.
If he makes a quick foul or a defensive mistake, no real harm anyway.
nah, buzz will just roll with "his guys"
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 03:33:27 PM
I completely agree with this. An offensively challenged second half should have necessitated something...and Deonte's offense could have been that change.
If he makes a quick foul or a defensive mistake, no real harm anyway.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 18, 2014, 03:30:59 PM
Sorry Ners. After that debacle, the curtain has fallen for this year.
I agree. I was optimism about an offensive turnaround but after crapping the bed against the worst team defense in the Big East, I've lost all hope.
Gotta start planning for '14-'15 - and I mean now.
It is game 5 of an 18 game conference schedule. Settle down. We have three more losses before we have no hope of making the tournament. If we lose four more, I'll agree, pull the plug. Until then, we play to win now.
maybe Buzz can get a head start installing the offense for 14-15?
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 18, 2014, 03:58:18 PM
Gotta start planning for '14-'15 - and I mean now.
The only open item I have: did we cancel in time to get a full refund on the No Bad Losses banner?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 18, 2014, 05:25:12 PM
It is game 5 of an 18 game conference schedule. Settle down. We have three more losses before we have no hope of making the tournament. If we lose four more, I'll agree, pull the plug. Until then, we play to win now.
We would need to go 10-3 the rest of the way to get to 20 wins...not a single bone in my body thinks this is possible and watching this team I would likely see us more around 14-15 wins.
Quote from: mubuzz on January 18, 2014, 06:05:06 PM
We would need to go 10-3 the rest of the way to get to 20 wins...not a single bone in my body thinks this is possible and watching this team I would likely see us more around 14-15 wins.
Fine, then give up. See you next season.
Quote from: Ners on January 18, 2014, 03:27:39 PM
This Butler game was God awful. If we lose to G'Town, think Buzz is going to have to just bite the bullet and roll with:
Dawson
Burton
JJJ
For 25 minutes a game. Let them get their growing pains in, experience, and hopefully we can right the ship next year. No more Otule, I'm fine with greatly limiting Jamil too.
I don't care if Burton made a couple of quick fouls today....on a day when we were absolutley offensively challenged, no reason to not play Burton for 10 minutes at minimum in second half.
Derrick is coming back next year.. and will be starting as a senior... and if hes playing 30 minutes now.. his time wont go down...
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 18, 2014, 06:28:35 PM
Derrick is coming back next year.. and will be starting as a senior... and if hes playing 30 minutes now.. his time wont go down...
I'm pretty sure teams have taken the, we'll let Derrick Wilson beat us approach - but not Gardner, Jamil, and Mayo...which is why you've seen Gardner and Jamil's games regress, and Mayos stay the same as in the past.
That said, Derrick played much better today - was far more aggressive and played with better tempo. Tried to force the action/push the ball and was more aggressive shooting the ball...but of course we also got 5 turnovers from Derrick - which was the price of him playing much faster and aggressive than usual.
Bottom line..we still laid an egg. Jake was awful. Mayo was awful. Otule awful. Jamil, pretty much awful. Buzz's rotations/substitutions...awful. I don't see any real reason for Otule to get any minutes, and I'd be fine with Derrick and Jake's minutes being greatly reduced - with more minutes to Deonte, JJJ, Mayo and Dawson.
Derrick had 5 turnovers and 3 assists today.
MU had 16 turnovers and 5 assists for the game. That is a brutal stat.
The guards can get the ball inside but once it goes there, they double leaving Derrick. Ball is passed back out to Derrick, who passes to someone else for a three pointer, and we know how that worked out.
Quote from: nyg on January 18, 2014, 06:45:31 PM
Derrick had 5 turnovers and 3 assists today.
MU had 16 turnovers and 5 assists for the game. That is a brutal stat.
The guards can get the ball inside but once it goes there, they double leaving Derrick. Ball is passed back out to Derrick, who passes to someone else for a three pointer, and we know how that worked out.
It is hard to get assists when no one can consistantly make a shot. I actually thought watching the game that Buzz must of spent the whole week in practice working on Derrick pushing the ball up court and attacking the rim. at least two of Derrick's turnovers came on longer upcourt passes. In prior games I do not remember him doing long passes. So there was definatley a change in how Buzz was utilizing him.
Sorry, it is the NIT for the Warriors this year. Let's just pretend that it is 60 years ago and that the NIT is the more prestigious post season tournament. Could there be a silver lining to this season? Maybe it is a wake up call for Buzz as far as what it takes to field a top 15 team year in and year out(tend toward being a "Blue Blood"). I think Buzz is great and drink as much Kool-Aid as anyone but this edition of MU hoops is hard to watch.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 03:33:27 PM
I completely agree with this. An offensively challenged second half should have necessitated something...and Deonte's offense could have been that change.
If he makes a quick foul or a defensive mistake, no real harm anyway.
I'm curious why Buzz doesn't do the offense/defense sub pattern with Burton and possibly Juan like he's done with Gardner and Otule in the past.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 18, 2014, 03:58:18 PM
Gotta start planning for '14-'15 - and I mean now.
Coaches simply do not think like this, especially not with 13 games to go in an 18-game conference season, followed by a conference tournament.
There is no No. 1 draft pick to play for, either.
"Don't give up, don't ever give up." - Jimmy V, March 1993
Also applies to Marquette fans.
Quote from: WarriorFan on January 18, 2014, 11:01:01 PM
"Don't give up, don't ever give up." - Jimmy V, March 1993
Also applies to Marquette fans.
I actually understand if fans want to give up. It's not how I choose to be a fan, but I understand it.
Those who believe the coach of a high-major team is going to "throw in the towel," less than a third of the way through the conference schedule ... they are not living in reality.
Coaches are not wired that way. Maybe in the pros, if the GM tells them a top draft pick is on the line, but not at this level.
Quote from: WarriorFan on January 18, 2014, 11:01:01 PM
"Don't give up, don't ever give up." - Jimmy V, March 1993
Also applies to Marquette fans.
I wouldn't say one should give up but I would suggest we need to be realistic about this season. Quite frankly, this team is just not very good. We certainly will not come close to the accomplishments of Buzz' other teams at Marquette.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 03:33:27 PM
I completely agree with this. An offensively challenged second half should have necessitated something...and Deonte's offense could have been that change.
If he makes a quick foul or a defensive mistake, no real harm anyway.
What the hell? You have been pro team "DEFENSE" all year to this point. That is basically all you have argued.
But yes, now that you are on board...why not play the TALENT. Give them EXPERIENCE. Build for next year. Letting Chris Otule(SMH times 400), Jake Thomas, Juan Anderson, Derrick Wilson(admittingly this one we don't know full extent if duane is healthy) play big minutes AND start KILLS a team.
I know I could only dream of head coaching Big East Basketball team but Buzz this year is reminding me of Ron Gardenhire....that is in absolutely no way, a positive.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 19, 2014, 05:02:03 AM
What the hell? You have been pro team "DEFENSE" all year to this point. That is basically all you have argued.
Uh...no.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 19, 2014, 05:02:03 AM
But yes, now that you are on board...why not play the TALENT. Give them EXPERIENCE. Build for next year. Letting Chris Otule(SMH times 400), Jake Thomas, Juan Anderson, Derrick Wilson(admittingly this one we don't know full extent if duane is healthy) play big minutes AND start KILLS a team.
I am certainly not on board with this.
What I mean is that Deonte has shown that he can be a net positive contributor right now. Probably the only freshman who has been able to put the ball in the basket against top level competition. And he has been frozen out of the line up. Yeah he picked up two quick fouls and that's why he sat in the first half but when your team is falling apart largely because no one can hit a shot, why not bring in some offense?
Thing is, we'll probably lose at Georgetown and beat Nova at home.
Burton, Dawson and J3 need MAJOR minutes for the remainder of the season. There is zero reason these guys are sitting on the bench behind Jake, Derrick and Juan. Watching other programs where the freshmen are developing is getting to be really frustrating.
Quote from: Superfan on January 19, 2014, 12:21:04 PM
Burton, Dawson and J3 need MAJOR minutes for the remainder of the season. There is zero reason these guys are sitting on the bench behind Jake, Derrick and Juan.
Burton is not playing behind Juan any longer.
Jake and Derrick are better than JJJ and Dawson right now. They have no one to blame but themselves.
Quote from: Superfan on January 19, 2014, 12:21:04 PM
Burton, Dawson and J3 need MAJOR minutes for the remainder of the season. There is zero reason these guys are sitting on the bench behind Jake, Derrick and Juan. Watching other programs where the freshmen are developing is getting to be really frustrating.
Syracuse starts a freshmen.... point guard.. they 18-0.... sometimes trust is key... but i doubt these guys get major minutes this year...... If this team were in the old big east and had to play Cuse, Pitt and the other teams... itd be sad times for sure...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 19, 2014, 11:32:21 AM
Thing is, we'll probably lose at Georgetown and beat Nova at home.
beat nova at home.. that would be a tide changer.. for sure..
Quote from: mubuzz on January 18, 2014, 06:05:06 PM
We would need to go 10-3 the rest of the way to get to 20 wins...not a single bone in my body thinks this is possible and watching this team I would likely see us more around 14-15 wins.
2.42% chance of finishing 20-11 or better. And 20 wins projects to be an RPI right around 50.
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 19, 2014, 12:23:30 PM
Syracuse starts a freshmen.... point guard.. they 18-0.... sometimes trust is key...
If MU had Tyler Ennis, he'd be starting too.
Quote from: chapman on January 19, 2014, 12:27:55 PM
2.42% chance of finishing 20-11 or better. And 20 wins projects to be an RPI right around 50.
The good news is that is better than the 1.32% chance of finishing with 12 or less total wins. :D
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 18, 2014, 03:58:18 PM
Gotta start planning for '14-'15 - and I mean now.
Expect another tough year as we'll have, if nothing changes, 4 freshman, 5 sophomores, 1 junior and 3 seniors. I do not see a real leader in the upper classman. I think Buzz will be forced to play the sophs and freshman more than he would like.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 19, 2014, 12:31:23 PM
If MU had Tyler Ennis, he'd be starting too.
Doubt it - Think Duane Wilson truly would have gotten the starting nod over Derrick? Top 50 recruit Duane Wilson - who could have been ready to play around XMas but instead chose to redshirt?
Buzz is way too loyal to his upperclassmen. Never given much to freshman other than Blue who arrived during a depleted roster year. Just not Buzz's M.O., unless the freshman is so radically better in practice he had no choice yet..,not even sure that would be enough to dislodge his vets considering Burton, JJJ and Dawsom can't seem to crack the lineup with totally marginal at best players ahead of them.
Quote from: Ners on January 19, 2014, 12:47:50 PM
Doubt it - Think Duane Wilson truly would have gotten the starting nod over Derrick?
If he earned it...definitely.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 19, 2014, 12:51:16 PM
If he earned it...definitely.
You know this whole business about guys "earning" it, has merit of course until they repeatedly show you over and over and over again that they can't deliver in games. Truthfully, more minutes shouldn't be earned in a game situation by a guy with Derrick's stats - and being the biggest Net Negative on the team.
People who claim that this is the "backup quarterback" syndrome are way off in their argument, because our starting QB has shown himself to be quite ineffective. It's like we have Brandon Weedon quarterbacking our team, and our backup doesn't get squat of an opportunity to show what he can do - other than when Buzz's hand was totally forced against Xavier - and holy crap - once given a good stretch of run at the Point, our backup played pretty darn well, and had the team in position (1 point deficit) to win the game at the 5:00 mark only to hand the reins back to the starter and see the deficit inflate to 8 within 2:45 seconds. That's been the only game Dawson gotten a legit shot to run the point other than Grambling...