MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GGGG on January 10, 2014, 08:28:57 AM
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Ners...Nevada...et. al.
John Dawson really played well against Xavier and I would like to see more of him. Get Jamil off the point and break down the minutes Derrick (25) / Dawson (15).
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The thing I liked best about Dawson is that he looked comfortable out there. He looked like he belonged, which I thought was impressive considering the rust he must have had. That's the most I've seen of him. His handle was fine. He was 2-6 from 3 but he had at least 2 that were in and out and the last one was a deperation heave at the end of the game. Gives us a different dimension then Derrick Wilson.
I agree that when Derrick is on the bench, I would like to see more of Dawson at the point rather than Jamil, who is much more at home playing the forward positions.
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I loved the fact that he surveyed the floor and his eyes were always up looking for something.
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I won't say I was wrong. I will say he has finally progressed and finally looked comfortable out there.
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Nice post Sultan - takes some humility to make this post. I think the difference for Dawson last night was he got long stretches or run, to get into a rhythm. If you look at the game timeline - think he came in with 13:00 left in 1st half with team leading 14-13. Team got to 26-22 lead, a few turnovers and good look misses by DG and Jake - end up down 34-40 at half...and Jamil was on the bench for the whole time Dawson was in.
2nd half we fell behind by 12 early, got it down to 9 with 13:00 left...with Derrick running the point. Dawson entered team got to 67-68 with 5 minutes left, Derrick returned and we were down 8 points just 2:30 seconds later.
Dawson's shooting stroke is confident, 2 of his 3 misses from 3 were right on - there are differences in misses - his shots were right online, contrast that to Derrick's FT attempt that clanked off the backboard dircectly over the outer perimeter of the right side of the rim - just a terrible miss.
Think Dawson looks confident with ball, is always looking up, and is solid defensively. Given the disparity of the time in the program compared to Derrick - it just seems evident Dawson's ceiling is much higher, which in turn should help the team achieve more. AT minimum, Dawson certainly showed things wouldn't be worse with him getting 20 minutes at PG - in a hostile environment too.
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He wasn't solid defensively. He did hit a couple of shots. To my eyes, he did not look like the solution. But it wasn't a disaster. He looked better than he did against the cupcakes, so I have to assume he is progressing.
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Dawson is not long term solution at PG. It is most important spot on the court an college ball and major need to upgrade at PG moving forward. He played solid, but in big picture a great PG makes a team in today's game of college ball.
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He wasn't solid defensively. He did hit a couple of shots. To my eyes, he did not look like the solution. But it wasn't a disaster. He looked better than he did against the cupcakes, so I have to assume he is progressing.
Not sure how you felt Dawson wasn't solid defensively, or any less solid than Derrick - but, such a statement is really hard to quantify. What can be quantified is Dawson doubled Derrick's 3 point makes for the season, in 1 game, and that the team had good runs with Dawson in the game. Think Dawson earned a little more PT after tonight's game, and sure hope Buzz continues to give him 8 minute runs, instead of the fragmented runs of 2 minutes at a time we've mostly seen Dawson get.
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at least dawson wasn't heistant to shoot
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Hey, he shot 29% last night. But at least he was firing. In all seriousness, it was the first time all year, including the cupcakes, that I thought he looked like he might belong.
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Not sure how you felt Dawson wasn't solid defensively, or any less solid than Derrick - but, such a statement is really hard to quantify. What can be quantified is Dawson doubled Derrick's 3 point makes for the season, in 1 game, and that the team had good runs with Dawson in the game. Think Dawson earned a little more PT after tonight's game, and sure hope Buzz continues to give him 8 minute runs, instead of the fragmented runs of 2 minutes at a time we've mostly seen Dawson get.
Ners,
Add me to the list of those impressed with Dawson. Don't see him at all as a drive and dish or drive and kick out guy (at least yet) but his stroke from 3 looked solid and he looked comfortable out there. Think he earned back up (10-15) minutes last night.
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Dawson did a respectable job last night. He didn't force things, he took the open shot and he handled the ball well. He still had his moments of looking like a frosh, but he'll get past that. I'd be surprised if he doesn't log at least 8-12 minutes on Saturday.
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3 of his misses rattled out. Dawsonmania would be in full swing had they dropped.
I didn't think he was any worse defensively than anyone else last night. They were all pretty poor in that regard.
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Hey, he shot 29% last night. But at least he was firing. In all seriousness, it was the first time all year, including the cupcakes, that I thought he looked like he might belong.
Would you please at least be balanced in your criticism of shooting percentages and reference Derrick's as well? You can throw out 1 of Dawson's FG attempts at end of regulation, and then 2 of his other 3 attempts that didn't fall from 3 were right there...easily could have been 4 of 5 from 3 last night - and we trumpet how good Jake is at 3 shooting 41% (which is a good mark), and certainly much better than 11% as Derrick has been for the season, with 1 make from 3, in 16 games and being the leading minute getter on the team...
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Ners,
Add me to the list of those impressed with Dawson. Don't see him at all as a drive and dish or drive and kick out guy (at least yet) but his stroke from 3 looked solid and he looked comfortable out there. Think he earned back up (10-15) minutes last night.
I agree Dawson didn't aggressively attack the basket last night, other than at end of 1st half, where did make a nice move into the lane...loved his jump stop hop...to gain space/advantage...missed the shot though.
Think Dawson can be a drive and kick PG, yet that is an area where you can become more turnover prone, and at this stage in his development - Buzz may want to limit him aggressively attacking the rim. But, he does have a good stroke and quick release from the 3, and does see the floor well.
He has some nice potential - will be interesting to see how he evolves at MU the next 3 seasons - will Duane Wilson get more PT at PG, or will Dawson get more run at PG and Duane at the 2? Think they both are combo guards, that can play either PG or SG.
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Speaking of exile, where has BrewCity been?
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Brew has been at IWB's site.
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He wasn't solid defensively. He did hit a couple of shots. To my eyes, he did not look like the solution. But it wasn't a disaster. He looked better than he did against the cupcakes, so I have to assume he is progressing.
You may be right, but he didn't let his man hit a 3-pointer four different times with the game on the line like our "defensive" PG.
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Like Sultan, I have been a strong supporter of Derrick, and haven't agreed with the calls to play Dawson.
Last night showed me that Dawson is ready for decent minutes (10-15) as Derrick's backup. Where it goes from there should depend on how they play when they're both getting regular minutes. Dawson clearly isn't ready to be the starter yet...but he should get the opportunity to show what he can do off the bench.
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Like Sultan, I have been a strong supporter of Derrick, and haven't agreed with the calls to play Dawson.
Last night showed me that Dawson is ready for decent minutes (10-15) as Derrick's backup. Where it goes from there should depend on how they play when they're both getting regular minutes. Dawson clearly isn't ready to be the starter yet...but he should get the opportunity to show what he can do off the bench.
Nice post Gooo - and I don't ask this in a dickhead kind of way - but what has Derrick shown that he is clearly ready to be the continued starter getting 25-30 minutes a game? I do of course agree that last night was a step in the right direction - throw Dawson into the fire in a hostile environment and see how he does - the stage/environment certainly didn't seem to big for him, and as a result I hope we at least continue to get to see 15-20 minutes per game from him, and him getting 8-10 minute stretches of continued PT.
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Like Sultan, I have been a strong supporter of Derrick, and haven't agreed with the calls to play Dawson.
Last night showed me that Dawson is ready for decent minutes (10-15) as Derrick's backup. Where it goes from there should depend on how they play when they're both getting regular minutes. Dawson clearly isn't ready to be the starter yet...but he should get the opportunity to show what he can do off the bench.
I think where most of us "disagree with playing Dawson" is that we don't think the calls for "give him 30-35 minutes a game and sit Derrick on the bench" had much if any merit.
My own POV is that going all the way back to Grambling, I thought Dawson looked better than I had anticipated and showed potential...but it was Grambling. Over the next several games he didn't do a whole lot, recently I thought he had regressed, and that's when the "give him 30" crowd really seemed crazy to me.
Last night he looked pretty damn good, and I think he's very capable of playing the back up role (maybe 15 a game), and that's a very good thing for this team.
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Like Sultan, I have been a strong supporter of Derrick, and haven't agreed with the calls to play Dawson.
Last night showed me that Dawson is ready for decent minutes (10-15) as Derrick's backup. Where it goes from there should depend on how they play when they're both getting regular minutes. Dawson clearly isn't ready to be the starter yet...but he should get the opportunity to show what he can do off the bench.
I'm right there with Gooo and Sultan at this point.
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You may be right, but he didn't let his man hit a 3-pointer four different times with the game on the line like our "defensive" PG.
Wilson was in really good defensive position for those. Sometimes they just go in.
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Wilson was in really good defensive position for those. Sometimes they just go in.
Exactly. You give a 30% career 3pt shooter a contested 3 any time he wants it.
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Wilson was in really good defensive position for those. Sometimes they just go in.
For 2 of them, anyway. But if the guy you are guarding is an All-American candidate, you have to make him put the ball on the floor and hope that the help defense is there. As study after study has shown, it is the quantity of 3's taken that makes the difference.
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Yes. And he shot them with a defender in perfect defensive position contesting them. They still went in. He was at home and in the zone.
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I think where most of us "disagree with playing Dawson" is that we don't think the calls for "give him 30-35 minutes a game and sit Derrick on the bench" had much if any merit.
My own POV is that going all the way back to Grambling, I thought Dawson looked better than I had anticipated and showed potential...but it was Grambling. Over the next several games he didn't do a whole lot, recently I thought he had regressed, and that's when the "give him 30" crowd really seemed crazy to me.
Last night he looked pretty damn good, and I think he's very capable of playing the back up role (maybe 15 a game), and that's a very good thing for this team.
Not sure I ever said Dawson should get 30-35, but rather 25-30. I totally throw out his minutes in the games against Samford, Ball State, etc., as Buzz had him playing off the ball, and only gave him 2-3 minutes stints. Last night was the first time since Grambling Dawson got to run the point, and got extended, non-interrupted run. Those two factors are why he looked significantly better than the games between Grambling and X. It is virtually impossible to contribute much of anything when you get a few 3 minute stints of action in a game. Derrick has gotten the most opportunity of anyone on the team to get in the flow and good rhythm as the leading minute getter - and the results have been abysmal.
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Not sure I ever said Dawson should get 30-35, but rather 25-30. I totally throw out his minutes in the games against Samford, Ball State, etc., as Buzz had him playing off the ball, and only gave him 2-3 minutes stints. Last night was the first time since Grambling Dawson got to run the point, and got extended, non-interrupted run. Those two factors are why he looked significantly better than the games between Grambling and X. It is virtually impossible to contribute much of anything when you get a few 3 minute stints of action in a game. Derrick has gotten the most opportunity of anyone on the team to get in the flow and good rhythm as the leading minute getter - and the results have been abysmal.
Dawson really surprised me yesterday. We need to see more. However, 25-30 mins is too much. Ners, you don't want to overwhelm the kid.
At 9-7, I think it is time to change some things up. Playing Dawson 15-20 mins should be in the cards. Also, if Burton can keep himself on the court (out of foul trouble), he needs to play at least 20 mins a game. He played 15 last night, that's not enough.
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Nice post Gooo - and I don't ask this in a dickhead kind of way - but what has Derrick shown that he is clearly ready to be the continued starter getting 25-30 minutes a game? I do of course agree that last night was a step in the right direction - throw Dawson into the fire in a hostile environment and see how he does - the stage/environment certainly didn't seem to big for him, and as a result I hope we at least continue to get to see 15-20 minutes per game from him, and him getting 8-10 minute stretches of continued PT.
Fair question. Most of my answer is subjective, but ultimately it gets down to by belief that Derrick has shown some strengths we need in a PG, and that the team is better overall with him in at this point. A few specific comments:
* While he is not dynamic (yes, an understatement), he is rock-solid with the ball. Not hitting shots is certainly frustrating...but IMHO it would be even more fristrating if we never got the shots because our PG was turning it over. That's part of the reason I didn't like the Jamil at PG experiment - he was a turnover machine.
* Contrary to the assertions of some, he is a very good defender. Many want to point to Christian's 3s last night as examples that show otherwise, but I disagree. In the first half (frequently guarded by Dawson), most of Christian's 17 points were on layups. In the second half, Derrick prevented Christian from getting to the hoop as easily as he did in the first half...and it largely worked. In fact, the very reason Christian was forced to take those long 3s was because Derrick was staying in front of him. And even though Christian hit them, Derrick was right on him with a hand in his face. Good defense...but just a better shot. And even after hitting those shots, Christian had fewer points (11) in the second half.
* He is a solid rebounder. We got killed on the boards last night...and most of the negative comments in the game thread were in the first half when Derrick is sitting. He still got a respectable (for a PG) 3 rebounds in 22 minutes. Davante only had one more...but he played 15 more minutes.
And the most intangible thing of all: experience. While I may not take it to Buzz's extreme (for example, I'd probably be starting Deonte over Juan by now), I think players who've been in the system and gotten PT should get the benefit of the doubt and not be replaced until the new guy proves he's better. I know -- this raises the argument that you'll never know whether the new guy is better if he doesn't play, which is why I now agree that Dawson should start seeing PT. Maybe I should have seen that earlier. But in any event, I don't think a kid should go from DNP-CD to starter overnight. That's why I'd be comfortable if Dawson gets 10-15 mpg for a while...with future minutes tbd.
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Not sure I ever said Dawson should get 30-35, but rather 25-30. I totally throw out his minutes in the games against Samford, Ball State, etc., as Buzz had him playing off the ball, and only gave him 2-3 minutes stints. Last night was the first time since Grambling Dawson got to run the point, and got extended, non-interrupted run. Those two factors are why he looked significantly better than the games between Grambling and X. It is virtually impossible to contribute much of anything when you get a few 3 minute stints of action in a game. Derrick has gotten the most opportunity of anyone on the team to get in the flow and good rhythm as the leading minute getter - and the results have been abysmal.
I wasn't necessarily talking about you...plenty of others have made those comments.
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Last night showed me that Dawson is ready for decent minutes (10-15) as Derrick's backup. Where it goes from there should depend on how they play when they're both getting regular minutes. Dawson clearly isn't ready to be the starter yet...but he should get the opportunity to show what he can do off the bench.
This. Getting both of them in there is a nice change of pace. They compliment each other well and are both effective to varying degrees depending on whose around them.
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I wasn't necessarily talking about you...plenty of others have made those comments.
No worries ATL - I didn't take it personally, only to the extent that I know I've been beating the Dawson drum probably louder than anybody here. I'll be thrilled if we just get to see 15-20 minutes per game from him over the next month. If he gets those types of minutes, and performs well, and earns it - then move to 20-30 minutes per game. Guess we'll see - but I just hope last night Dawson's PT wasn't a function of the foul trouble on Jamil and Derrick - but instead that Buzz is gaining confidence in him.
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No worries ATL - I didn't take it personally, only to the extent that I know I've been beating the Dawson drum probably louder than anybody here. I'll be thrilled if we just get to see 15-20 minutes per game from him over the next month. If he gets those types of minutes, and performs well, and earns it - then move to 20-30 minutes per game. Guess we'll see - but I just hope last night Dawson's PT wasn't a function of the foul trouble on Jamil and Derrick - but instead that Buzz is gaining confidence in him.
I'm sure he got the minutes due to foul trouble. I would think that last night's performance has to make Buzz more confident in him. Only one game but he looked like he belonged. Hopefully more to come.
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Guess we'll see - but I just hope last night Dawson's PT wasn't a function of the foul trouble on Jamil and Derrick - but instead that Buzz is gaining confidence in him.
It was, especially in the 1st half. But, Dawson showed he could do some things and took advantage of the opportunity. Credit to him. My hope is that he gets minutes tomorrow against Seton Hall. Based on the Xavier game, he should.
On a different note, MU needs JJJ to get going. Against quality competition, he's doing nothing with his time on the floor. Back in November, I thought he would have leapfrog Thomas by now. However, it is Jake who has elevated his game.
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I'm not ready to say that Dawson should get 15 mins a night, but the kid stepped up when we need him to. He has definitely earned the right for another shot in a legitimate game.
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I'm not ready to say that Dawson should get 15 mins a night, but the kid stepped up when we need him to. He has definitely earned the right for another shot in a legitimate game.
Dawson played a good game - was just too bad 2 of his missed 3,s rattled around and out - those 6 points would have made a huge difference. Either way, Dawson's 6 points in 17 minutes last matched Derrick's total of 6 points in 80 minutes of conference play thus far.
The bigger factor in my view, however, was that the team clicked offensively much better last night - netting season highs in 3 pt shooting percentage, and shot 47% from the Field against a tough opponent on the road - while playing without Jamil for most of the game.
I just can't really see how you'd say Dawson doesn't deserve at least 15 minutes a night moving forward, given how badly Derrick and the team have struggled this year?
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It would have been nice to see Dawson a bit more. I am a big fan of Buzz. Practice is important. But some players have it in a (real) game and just not as much in practice. I don't think it should be the ultimate factor when dishing out playing time early in a season.
So with that said, I wish we could have seen Dawson playing a few more stints of extended minutes vs. the cupcake teams. His 3 pt shooting has been the biggest breath of fresh air for MU in quite a few games.
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I just can't really see how you'd say Dawson doesn't deserve at least 15 minutes a night moving forward, given how badly Derrick and the team have struggled this year?
Mostly because it was a single game. Give him another shot, see how he does. If he does well, he's earned some consistent playing time. He flops, maybe keep him on the bench for awhile
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I'm not ready to say that Dawson should get 15 mins a night, but the kid stepped up when we need him to. He has definitely earned the right for another shot in a legitimate game.
TAMU...I totally agree. He earned the right to get some time on the floor, if he plays well when in let him help Wilson get some rest.
If he continues to improve maybe 15-20 minutes a game at the end of the season...starter next year.
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I want Dawson to play for a totally different reason... it gives us 5 more fouls at PG. These new rules can be harsh, and Derrick is nowhere near the defender this year that he was last year. In my opinion, that's partly due to the rules and partly because he's trying to stay in the game by not fouling. How do you stop a guy who's unbelievably hot from 3? Put Dawson on him for a minute and get a hand on top of the ball on the way up, or better yet, play a tight ball denial which may or may not be legal.
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Ners...Nevada...et. al.
John Dawson really played well against Xavier and I would like to see more of him. Get Jamil off the point and break down the minutes Derrick (25) / Dawson (15).
Thanks Sir.... I love the kid and feel he should get more than DNPS to come into that game in that enviornment.. hit a big 3 and assist Thomas on another one... MU virtually was back in the game... Im not gonna bash Derrick... But Dawson was not brought to Marquette for the Weather... The kid can play at this level... he will do good against seton hall tomorrow too... #TeamDawson.....