So much talent on this team but we're awful. Jamil has no heart and has been awful and looks lost this year. The only asset Otule has is his height. Mayo is a **EDIT FOR PEOPLE THAT TAKE EVERYTHING LITERALLY** crack-head head-case. Gardner is the only upperclassmen that is showing any heart. Our future is bright but this team this year just does not have "it".
Hope to eat my words but just not seeing it.
Lotta problems on this team.
Just wait until the game is over at least. No need to go off on this silly rant with a bunch of time left and down only 3. We're not great but we aren't far off from being 2-1 in conference.
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on January 09, 2014, 09:48:19 PM
Just wait until the game is over at least. No need to go off on this silly rant with a bunch of time left and down only 3. We're not great but we aren't far off from being 2-1 in conference.
This. So many times I freaked out watching Jimmy and Lazar and DJO in games very similar to this. Just wait. At least.
Disagree with "so much talent."
Quote from: LastWarrior on January 09, 2014, 09:43:02 PM
Mayo is a crack-head.
Lol. What?
Mayo is many things. I don't think that's one of them
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on January 09, 2014, 09:48:19 PM
Just wait until the game is over at least. No need to go off on this silly rant with a bunch of time left and down only 3. We're not great but we aren't far off from being 2-1 in conference.
For the record... this was posted with MU down 12 in the 2nd. Win or lose, there is no doubting the above as it has been present all season. Of course I hope we turnaround our season but if you're not seeing the above, you must not have been watching this season.
Quote from: LastWarrior on January 09, 2014, 09:54:36 PM
For the record... this was posted with MU down 12 in the 2nd. Win or lose, there is no doubting the above as it has been present all season. Of course I hope we turnaround our season but if you're not seeing the above, you must not have been watching this season.
So getting upset warrants calling Mayo a crack-head? Like I acknowledged, we're not good. Not nearly as polished in recent years, but give me a break man.
Quote from: LastWarrior on January 09, 2014, 09:43:02 PM
So much talent on this team but we're awful. Jamil has no heart and has been awful and looks lost this year. The only asset Otule has is his height. Mayo is a crack-head. Gardner is the only upperclassmen that is showing any heart. Our future is bright but this team this year just does not have "it".
Hope to eat my words but just not seeing it.
You are so ignored from now on.
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on January 09, 2014, 09:57:06 PM
So getting upset warrants calling Mayo a crack-head? Like I acknowledged, we're not good. Not nearly as polished in recent years, but give me a break man.
YES... I THINK MAYO IS ADDICTED TO CRACK!!
Quote from: LastWarrior on January 09, 2014, 10:01:06 PM
YES... I THINK MAYO IS ADDICTED TO CRACK!!
Step away from the Scoop...
lol I have been extremely harsh at times this year.
But I don't think even I have resorted to calling a player a drug addict out of frustration.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 09, 2014, 09:52:44 PM
Disagree with "so much talent."
Agree with your disagree.
I do not think the ripping on Jamil is fair.. He had some bonehead fouls yesterday but he is hardly the reason this team is struggling. When we have JA and DW on the court at the same time the defense needs to cover only 3 players. Love JA's hustle, but he has no confidence in his shot.
Same narrative thus far..there is no leader on this team. Last year Vander grabbed it. If someone on this year's team does not step up then I think we will continue to struggle. The last few years we were projected to finish 5th-8th in the Big East, and always beat the expectations, because someone stepped up. When Hayward left, when Butler left, Crowder and DJO left someone stepped up.
Thus far no one person on this years team is the leader or showing it on the court.
I blame the depth of the NBA draft this year coupled with the pragmatism of our players. Frankly, it's going to be an uphill battle for any of our players just to get a workout or two after the season... the motivation to work your rear end off and leave it all on the court in the hopes of getting drafted (that has caused MU to overachieve the last few years) just isn't there this year.
For all those who love to bash the boneheaded decision Vander made a few months ago, that boneheadedness played a significant role in getting us to the Elite 8. Unfortunately, we just don't have any boneheads this year.
Quote from: Benny B on January 10, 2014, 10:22:12 AM
I blame the depth of the NBA draft this year coupled with the pragmatism of our players. Frankly, it's going to be an uphill battle for any of our players just to get a workout or two after the season... the motivation to work your rear end off and leave it all on the court in the hopes of getting drafted (that has caused MU to overachieve the last few years) just isn't there this year.
For all those who love to bash the boneheaded decision Vander made a few months ago, that boneheadedness played a significant role in getting us to the Elite 8. Unfortunately, we just don't have any boneheads this year.
Let's face it. There isn't an NBA worthy guy on this team right now but we don't play in the NBA. Gardner may THINK he's NBA worthy but he won't get a sniff because he looks and plays disinterestedly and is not athletic at all for that level. His work ethic is WAY below that of Jae and DJO and look how hard it has been for them.... Blue was a nice college player but not NBA pro-worthy as has been proven. He helped us get where we got and that was/is his level.
Do we have Big East worthy guys? Gotta see if "they get it" yet. Team play will be really important especially on defense if we continue to struggle offensively as we have and there haven't been any indications that we (they) have so far. We might have to pick 5 guys from the stands to run inbounds plays..........
We'd be crushed in the "old" Big East for sure. Louisville, Syracuse, UConn and ND would kill us and I don't think we'd even make the tourney cut if still there... Certainly wouldn't win the conference tourney.... Anyhow....
Lack of leadership and basketball smarts will be our undoing this season. No matter what our record is against top teams, we need to WIN some of those not be satisfied with just playing them.
Going to be a rough ride for sure.
Quote from: axaguy on January 10, 2014, 10:53:04 AM
We'd be crushed in the "old" Big East for sure. Louisville, Syracuse, UConn and ND would kill us and I don't think we'd even make the tourney cut if still there... Certainly wouldn't win the conference tourney.... Anyhow....
UConn this season already lost on the road to Houston & SMU and had to come back at home to beat Harvard in a close game.
Replace "Team" with "Author" and this thread makes a lot more sense.
This team is not missing "it" as much as it's missing "him," as in, a go-to guy/star player.
This team has a lot of very good complimentary players - a beast in the post offensively, an athletic 3/stretch 4, a 6'11" rim-protector, a hustle guy, a spot-up shooter, a dependable ball-handler, a veteran scorer off the bench, a manchild scorer off the bench. What the team needs is that one guy who can draw enough attention from the opposition for those guys to maximize their roles. Without that guy, everyone is asked to step away from what they do best (at least to some extent) and try to make up for some of what's missing. It's similar to a pitching staff that has 5 dependable #3 starters but no ace - someone is forced to be miscast.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 10, 2014, 12:23:53 PM
an athletic 3/stretch 4,
J Wilson was supposed to evolve into that go-to guy. Rather, he's regressed to a timid offensive player and an average-at-best defender. Oh, and he's still making boneheaded plays that I would expect from a freshman. As far as offense, the guy needs an open baseline to nail a jumper and hits the occasional 3. He drives about as much as an elderly woman with cataracts--which makes zero sense given his length and athleticism. The kid just refuses to take over games and get buckets when we need them (yes, I know he drained a bunch of 3s at the end of the Davidson game, but he was also playing with house money). When he does handle the ball now, his timidity is glaring given the amount of turnovers he commits whether it be via travel, bad pass, or offensive foul. On defense, I've never seen senior defender so lost--he's running all over the court and biting on pump fakes like he just saw his first one. He shows little discipline with his body, arms, and hands as he's ALWAYS in foul trouble--a puzzling problem for an experienced player.
I'm hoping for the best for Jamil down the stretch seeing as he does have potential (cringe), and to say I'm disappointed in him and his farewell tour is a gross understatement. We needed him to step up this year, and he's gone MIA for the most part.
Quote from: windyplayer on January 10, 2014, 12:50:11 PM
J Wilson was supposed to evolve into that go-to guy. Rather, he's regressed to a timid offensive player and an average-at-best defender. Oh, and he's still making boneheaded plays that I would expect from a freshman. As far as offense, the guy needs an open baseline to nail a jumper and hits the occasional 3. He drives about as much as an elderly woman with cataracts--which makes zero sense given his length and athleticism. The kid just refuses to take over games and get buckets when we need them (yes, I know he drained a bunch of 3s at the end of the Davidson game, but he was also playing with house money). When he does handle the ball now, his timidity is glaring given the amount of turnovers he commits whether it be via travel, bad pass, or offensive foul. On defense, I've never seen senior defender so lost--he's running all over the court and biting on pump fakes like he just saw his first one. He shows little discipline with his body, arms, and hands as he's ALWAYS in foul trouble--a puzzling problem for an experienced player.
I'm hoping for the best for Jamil down the stretch seeing as he does have potential (cringe), and to say I'm disappointed in him and his farewell tour is a gross understatement. We needed him to step up this year, and he's gone MIA for the most part.
Jamil was supposed to evolve into the go-to player according to who?
That's the thing. Jamil looks the part. He's about the same size and plays the same position as Hayward/Butler/Crowder, but he doesn't have the same game as those guys. He's a more athletic Olouma Nnamaka.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jamil-wilson&jamil-wilson=career&oluoma-nnamaka=career&p1=oluoma-nnamaka (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jamil-wilson&jamil-wilson=career&oluoma-nnamaka=career&p1=oluoma-nnamaka)
That's not meant as an insult to either guy. It's just what Jamil is and you can win a lot of game with role players like that. However, to go cross-sport again, it's like having Matt Cassell as your QB and expecting him to play like Tom Brady because he's shown some flashes and they look similar in the uniform.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 10, 2014, 12:23:53 PM
This team is not missing "it" as much as it's missing "him," as in, a go-to guy/star player.
This team has a lot of very good complimentary players - a beast in the post offensively, an athletic 3/stretch 4, a 6'11" rim-protector, a hustle guy, a spot-up shooter, a dependable ball-handler, a veteran scorer off the bench, a manchild scorer off the bench. What the team needs is that one guy who can draw enough attention from the opposition for those guys to maximize their roles. Without that guy, everyone is asked to step away from what they do best (at least to some extent) and try to make up for some of what's missing. It's similar to a pitching staff that has 5 dependable #3 starters but no ace - someone is forced to be miscast.
Well said. Agree with everything here.
The 'it' is a Jerel/DJames/Lazar/Butler/Crowder/DJO/Blue.....the guy who at winning time makes the play. In short, a go-to guy, a leader. The good news is that I can easily see Deonte in that role as soon as next year.
Quote from: tower912 on January 10, 2014, 03:32:01 PM
The 'it' is a Jerel/DJames/Lazar/Butler/Crowder/DJO/Blue.....the guy who at winning time makes the play. In short, a go-to guy, a leader. The good news is that I can easily see Deonte in that role as soon as next year.
So far, little good has come from this season.
For me, one good thing that has come is that maybe fewer folks will think trends always continue.
Back in October, whenever anybody would express any concern at all about our lack of a go-to guy, our lack of a proven SG, our lack of leadership, our lack of perimeter shooting, and especially our lack of a PG, the standard reply was: "Lazar left and Jimmy took over, Jimmy left and Jae took over, Jae left and Vander took over, Vander left but don't worry because someone will take over. That's the way it
always is!"
Then, in December, whenever anybody would express any concern about our mediocre non-con play, the standard reply was: "This is just like the last few years, but then we came around and contended."
I like the optimism, but sometimes the truth hits us in the face and we won't acknowledge it even as it's giving us a black eye and a bloody nose.
We have talent but not "a lot of talent." We have some freshmen who look like they will be good college players (hopefully very good), but all of our non-freshmen are role players and have always been role players.
Derrick should be a 10mpg backup PG. Jake should be an occasional zone buster. Jamil's best role is the one he had last year: nice complementary player who occasionally could go off. Otule, a classic, defense-first, 15mpg backup center. Juan, a 5-10mpg energy guy. Mayo, an instant-offense, Vinny Johnson type to play 5 mins or 25 mins, depending upon how he is doing in a given game. Taylor, who knows what the deal is there?
Even our leading scorer, Davante, is nowhere near a star. He only plays one end of the floor. Plus, it's always tough for all but the superstar post player to be the go-to guy because he is dependent on somebody else getting him the ball.
This has the look of a transitional season. It happens. It's not worth getting on the ledge about. Carolina, Kentucky, Georgetown, even Duke have had transitional seasons. It happened here under Crean, too.
Maybe we'd all stress out a little less if we'd just admit that. (Or maybe not. We are a bunch of chatboard fools!)
Quote from: MU82 on January 10, 2014, 04:35:37 PM
So far, little good has come from this season.
For me, one good thing that has come is that maybe fewer folks will think trends always continue.
Back in October, whenever anybody would express any concern at all about our lack of a go-to guy, our lack of a proven SG, our lack of leadership, our lack of perimeter shooting, and especially our lack of a PG, the standard reply was: "Lazar left and Jimmy took over, Jimmy left and Jae took over, Jae left and Vander took over, Vander left but don't worry because someone will take over. That's the way it always is!"
Then, in December, whenever anybody would express any concern about our mediocre non-con play, the standard reply was: "This is just like the last few years, but then we came around and contended."
I like the optimism, but sometimes the truth hits us in the face and we won't acknowledge it even as it's giving us a black eye and a bloody nose.
We have talent but not "a lot of talent." We have some freshmen who look like they will be good college players (hopefully very good), but all of our non-freshmen are role players and have always been role players.
Derrick should be a 10mpg backup PG. Jake should be an occasional zone buster. Jamil's best role is the one he had last year: nice complementary player who occasionally could go off. Otule, a classic, defense-first, 15mpg backup center. Juan, a 5-10mpg energy guy. Mayo, an instant-offense, Vinny Johnson type to play 5 mins or 25 mins, depending upon how he is doing in a given game. Taylor, who knows what the deal is there?
Even our leading scorer, Davante, is nowhere near a star. He only plays one end of the floor. Plus, it's always tough for all but the superstar post player to be the go-to guy because he is dependent on somebody else getting him the ball.
This has the look of a transitional season. It happens. It's not worth getting on the ledge about. Carolina, Kentucky, Georgetown, even Duke have had transitional seasons. It happened here under Crean, too.
Maybe we'd all stress out a little less if we'd just admit that. (Or maybe not. We are a bunch of chatboard fools!)
Don't buy the" we have talent, but we don't have a lot of talent." More excuses!
Let's see how many Top 100 guys we have:
J. Anderson, JJJ, Ja. Wilson, Burton, Du. Wilson (not playing), S. Taylor-that's 6. Add in some all staters like Dawson and De. Wilson, and a 5th year senior starter transfer from a D1 school, Thomas along with a 6th year senior Otule who is damn near 7 feet--that is plenty of talent. Not to mention a diamond in the rough, Gardner. And since you believe that Gardner only plays one end of the floor--look at the rest. There are about 5 others that only play about half of one end of the floor. Who the hell coaches these guys? Buzzo
Who the hell recruited all these studs? Buzzo. So right there is where the buck stops. Put your trust there!
Would like to see JJJ get a start and play 30 minutes, he is the "it" we need. The kid has a very quick first step , court vision , hustles to create steals ( which is something we need) and in the words if Todd Mayo , JJJ is a pure scorer. What he heck Buzz is experimenting , why not give this a shot.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 10, 2014, 05:00:43 PM
Don't buy the" we have talent, but we don't have a lot of talent." More excuses!
Let's see how many Top 100 guys we have:
J. Anderson, JJJ, Ja. Wilson, Burton, Du. Wilson (not playing), S. Taylor-that's 6. Add in some all staters like Dawson and De. Wilson, and a 5th year senior starter transfer from a D1 school, Thomas along with a 6th year senior Otule who is damn near 7 feet--that is plenty of talent. Not to mention a diamond in the rough, Gardner. And since you believe that Gardner only plays one end of the floor--look at the rest. There are about 5 others that only play about half of one end of the floor. Who the hell coaches these guys? Buzzo
Who the hell recruited all these studs? Buzzo. So right there is where the buck stops. Put your trust there!
I didn't absolve Buzz of anything.
I simply said we have a team full of role players, plus the freshmen whose true talent level has yet to be established.
I am fully capable of criticizing Buzz and do so when warranted. Unlike you, the joyless wonder, I don't blame him for everything.
I wish you would get on the MU Board of Directors and lead the campaign to fire Buzz so we finally can bring in a coach capable of, I don't know, getting us past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: MU82 on January 10, 2014, 05:24:58 PM
I didn't absolve Buzz of anything.
I simply said we have a team full of role players, plus the freshmen whose true talent level has yet to be established.
I am fully capable of criticizing Buzz and do so when warranted. Unlike you, the joyless wonder, I don't blame him for everything.
I wish you would get on the MU Board of Directors and lead the campaign to fire Buzz so we finally can bring in a coach capable of, I don't know, getting us past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.
His team, his players, his offense, his defense, his strategy, and his 2.5 million a year. He has the responsibility to recruit, develop and coach. Keep hanging on getting past the first weekend--let me know at the end of the year how that worked out for you. And speaking of joy and joyless, I will celebrate when we win three in a row. As far as the Board of Directors goes--you would be much better at it. It is political.
Agree with your observations windyplayer, Jamil may be trying too hard and needs to play more under control and be more confident without pressing. Why he doesn't attack the rim more is a mystery, after all he is more a slasher than a shooter. Some of his fouls are unnecessary and maybe even foolish.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 10, 2014, 08:03:18 PM
His team, his players, his offense, his defense, his strategy, and his 2.5 million a year. He has the responsibility to recruit, develop and coach. Keep hanging on getting past the first weekend--let me know at the end of the year how that worked out for you. And speaking of joy and joyless, I will celebrate when we win three in a row. As far as the Board of Directors goes--you would be much better at it. It is political.
Buy major signage in Milwaukee and lead the call to fire this blight of a coach who clearly has ruined your alma mater.
Oh wait ... it wasn't your alma mater.
Quote from: MU82 on January 10, 2014, 10:06:44 PM
Buy major signage in Milwaukee and lead the call to fire this blight of a coach who clearly has ruined your alma mater.
Oh wait ... it wasn't your alma mater.
Oh yeah--here we go now with the sanctimonious attitude implication that because one is not an MU grad, that person's fandom and opinion is somehow less than worthy. Wow, did I do a Wayne's World reference there? Yes, we are not worthy!
"Gardner Thomas is the only upperclassmen that is showing any heart. Our future is bright but this team this year just does not have "it"."
Fixed it for you.
Says an awful lot about a team when probably the least talented player added as a walk-on is the key go to guy and the most talented athletes cannot break into the starting line-up. The problem here is not talent, but attitude and heart. Buzz knows it and seems to be waiting for certain players to get it. There is something thing going on here. Like Kentucky experienced lately, talent does not mean a good team sometimes.
**
We are lacking talent in the players spending most time on the floor to this pt., and results show it. Jamil is an interesting and frustrating one as he's the NBA body and look at times, but has shown long enough that he does not have that level talent. Team's future is bright, however.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 11, 2014, 07:02:43 AM
Oh yeah--here we go now with the sanctimonious attitude implication that because one is not an MU grad, that person's fandom and opinion is somehow less than worthy. Wow, did I do a Wayne's World reference there? Yes, we are not worthy!
Yep. Joyless non-MU alums who spend hours on the interwebs ripping the coach are, indeed, not worthy.
I highly recommend finding a program whose coach can recruit big men and can satisfy your need to reach the Final Four every year.