There are only 13 scholarships available.You can't waste them.No way do you give a scholarship to a 6'0" guard that can not shoot at all.That is inexcuseable.We give scholarships to Wilson and Dawson and there are 2 state players in Matt Thomas and Riley LaChance who both can really shoot the basketball and they are going out of state to play.That really pisses me off.I am hoping Buzz has saw the light with the recruitment of Noskowiak and Flory.
Easy Mr. La Chance.
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on December 31, 2013, 11:57:32 PM
There are only 13 scholarships available.You can't waste them.No way do you give a scholarship to a 6'0" guard that can not shoot at all.That is inexcuseable.We give scholarships to Wilson and Dawson and there are 2 state players in Matt Thomas and Riley LaChance who both can really shoot the basketball and they are going out of state to play.That really pisses me off.I am hoping Buzz has saw the light with the recruitment of Noskowiak and Flory.
Dude, we get it. You love yourself some Riley LaChance. You've spent half of your 18 posts talking about him. He's going elsewere, move on
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on December 31, 2013, 11:57:32 PM
I am hoping Buzz has saw the light with the recruitment of Noskowiak and Flory.
Yep, he seened it. Dem guys is good.
Time will tell if recruiting traditional in state kids is the answer. I think our best ball under Buzz has been in uptempo style of play and for that you need athletes.
There are two issues here. First, the OP is ignoring the timeline for both recruits.
Thomas clearly was a late bloomer that a lot of schools missed out on. ISU was on him early and nabbed him. This wasn't just a miss by Buzz.
As for LaChance, I'm not sure what you mean by "saw the light" with Noskowiak. Nick committed before Buzz closed the book on LaChance. Buzz looked at him *many* times last summer...and took a pass. And frankly I think Ahmed Hill and Sandy Cohen are better players. Only time will tell if Buzz got that right.
But the larger issue is that we have had too many recruiting classes that have lacked quality guards, and now we are paying the price. Vander was clearly a hit. But including that class, and in subsequent classes, here is who we got for the backcourt before this year: Derrick, Todd, Reggie Smith, Jamail Jones, JT Taylor, Jamal Ferguson.
Four transfers...two role players. Buzz screwed that up.
EDIT: Forgot TJ Taylor.
Buycks and DJO weren't terrible
Quote from: macman320 on January 01, 2014, 08:46:07 AM
Buycks and DJO weren't terrible
Right....but those players were in the classes prior to Vander.
I certainly agree that we have huge backcourt issues this year. In the last 3 years though, Junior, DJO, and Blue took up nearly all of the minutes at the 1 and 2. I don't have any inside scoop on why all three players transferred, but having nearly 40 min of a game at the 1 and 2 position consumed by players that have to be playing makes it hard to stay.
I remember when Ty Taylor was going to come here under the premise that James would leave for the pros, when he didn't, and when Crean left giving him a chance to go elsewhere, he left for a starting job at KU.
Basing this next statement only off of recent MU history, it seems PG is a very hard position to recruit when you already have a stud on your team. Diener was here, he left James came and played 4 years, he left Cadougan came and started his last 3 years, and right on cue Du Wilson is here. It seems that, at best, you can get a stud PG to come and sit for 1 year behind a senior. Did we miss any stud shooting guards the last 3 years because Vander was here?
Maybe the point is that Buzz should recruit guys to be backups, to be role players, so that when they are juniors they can function well? I don't know, because it seems like Jake Thomas and Derrick Wilson are the best you can get when you already have studs, and then when studs don't play because they are hurt or leave early, suddenly the reserves and therefore recruiting look terrible.
Again, I agree with your statement that recruiting classes lacked quality guards, but I wonder, can you stack up quality guards in back to back to back classes when there are no minutes? The 3 amigos didn't have any top 100 recruits coming off the bench for them. I think it is a huge get that we have Med Hill coming here next year with Du Wilson, JJJ, and Burton already on the team.
Goose,you are right.You do need athletes.You do not need 13 though.You need a couple of guys that can knock down the 3pt.shot.Look at the Bulls.Obviously Michael Jordan was great,but they had Paxson and Kerr just standing out ther waiting for the ball.Look at last night,Creighton was guarding 3 guys.They left Wilson and Anderson wide open.We scored 49 points.When we made it to the Final Four we had Diener and Novak able to shoot the ball.When they double teamed Wade teams paid for it.Just like with Jordan,Paxson and Kerr killed teams.
We always need athletes, but, we need athletes that can shoot and athletes that can fast break and score. You cannot win with just athletes. The team that scores the most baskets wins.
Quote from: macman320 on January 01, 2014, 09:14:54 AM
I certainly agree that we have huge backcourt issues this year. In the last 3 years though, Junior, DJO, and Blue took up nearly all of the minutes at the 1 and 2. I don't have any inside scoop on why all three players transferred, but having nearly 40 min of a game at the 1 and 2 position consumed by players that have to be playing makes it hard to stay.
I remember when Ty Taylor was going to come here under the premise that James would leave for the pros, when he didn't, and when Crean left giving him a chance to go elsewhere, he left for a starting job at KU.
Basing this next statement only off of recent MU history, it seems PG is a very hard position to recruit when you already have a stud on your team. Diener was here, he left James came and played 4 years, he left Cadougan came and started his last 3 years, and right on cue Du Wilson is here. It seems that, at best, you can get a stud PG to come and sit for 1 year behind a senior. Did we miss any stud shooting guards the last 3 years because Vander was here?
Maybe the point is that Buzz should recruit guys to be backups, to be role players, so that when they are juniors they can function well? I don't know, because it seems like Jake Thomas and Derrick Wilson are the best you can get when you already have studs, and then when studs don't play because they are hurt or leave early, suddenly the reserves and therefore recruiting look terrible.
Again, I agree with your statement that recruiting classes lacked quality guards, but I wonder, can you stack up quality guards in back to back to back classes when there are no minutes? The 3 amigos didn't have any top 100 recruits coming off the bench for them. I think it is a huge get that we have Med Hill coming here next year with Du Wilson, JJJ, and Burton already on the team.
Those are some good questions and observations. Some of the players have been clear misses...Jamal Ferguson for example. Some you can understand given their talent...Jamil Jones. Some look like they could have been contributors had they stuck it out....Reggie Smith and TJ Taylor.
Whether Buzz misjudged their talent, their heart, or maybe he just ran into a string of bad luck I don't know. But right now the backcourt cannot play at a BE level.
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on January 01, 2014, 09:31:08 AM
Goose,you are right.You do need athletes.You do not need 13 though.You need a couple of guys that can knock down the 3pt.shot.Look at the Bulls.Obviously Michael Jordan was great,but they had Paxson and Kerr just standing out ther waiting for the ball.Look at last night,Creighton was guarding 3 guys.They left Wilson and Anderson wide open.We scored 49 points.When we made it to the Final Four we had Diener and Novak able to shoot the ball.When they double teamed Wade teams paid for it.Just like with Jordan,Paxson and Kerr killed teams.
Not at all comparable. Diener and Novak played for a number of years at the next level--no way Jake or Derrick get a sniff at that. What is your point, other than cheerleading for LaChance? That we should recruit and sign more in state players (other than Jake, Jamil, Duane, Deonte, and the unexpectedly departed Vander)?
The point is Buzz needs to recruit some players that can shoot the ball.They do not have to be able to play at the next level.How many players on Creighton and Wisconsin are going to play at the next level other than Mcdermott and Dekker?The answer is zero.They have some players that can shoot the three though.
DeWilson averaged 18 pts a game in high school. Jake Thomas was a scorer and a 3 pt bomber at his former school. Mayo was a huge scorer in high school. All 4 of the freshmen on this year's team were considered great shooters and scorers in high school. My point is that everyone on this team other than Otule was a scorer in high school. Every one of them was reputed to have 3 pt range. It isn't translating this year.
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on January 01, 2014, 11:47:44 AM
The point is Buzz needs to recruit some players that can shoot the ball.They do not have to be able to play at the next level.How many players on Creighton and Wisconsin are going to play at the next level other than Mcdermott and Dekker?The answer is zero.They have some players that can shoot the three though.
While I agree we "need better shooters" that is just too simplistic. Who did we loose from an Elite 8 team--Junior, Trent and Vander. I don't recall any of them being great 3 point shooters.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 01, 2014, 10:14:23 AM
Those are some good questions and observations. Some of the players have been clear misses...Jamal Ferguson for example. Some you can understand given their talent...Jamil Jones. Some look like they could have been contributors had they stuck it out....Reggie Smith and TJ Taylor.
Whether Buzz misjudged their talent, their heart, or maybe he just ran into a string of bad luck I don't know. But right now the backcourt cannot play at a BE level.
In a somewhat ironic note - we basically turned away what would have been the best high school guard next to Vander - in DJ Newbill. Putting up BIG numbers at Penn State this year, and really has been a very productive player over the course of his career. Too bad he never got to MU.
Quote from: Ners on January 01, 2014, 07:12:42 PM
In a somewhat ironic note - we basically turned away what would have been the best high school guard next to Vander - in DJ Newbill. Putting up BIG numbers at Penn State this year, and really has been a very productive player over the course of his career. Too bad he never got to MU.
Newbill=no Jamil, which means no Big East title and Elite 8 last year.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 01, 2014, 07:17:13 PM
Newbill=no Jamil, which means no Big East title and Elite 8 last year.
True that Jamil came to MU once Newbill wasn't coming. Yet, not sure that you can draw the above conclusion. Newbill running with Vander and Junior would have been a really strong team. Newbill is like a Lockett, with a much better offensive game, but also is a great rebounding guard. Certainly Jamil played a valuable role last year, yet Newbill would have given the team likely 15ppg and 5 rebounds per game last year...
Quote from: Ners on January 01, 2014, 07:28:24 PM
True that Jamil came to MU once Newbill wasn't coming. Yet, not sure that you can draw the above conclusion. Newbill running with Vander and Junior would have been a really strong team. Newbill is like a Lockett, with a much better offensive game, but also is a great rebounding guard. Certainly Jamil played a valuable role last year, yet Newbill would have given the team likely 15ppg and 5 rebounds per game last year...
Newbill is better than Lockett. Jamil is WAY better than Juan or STjr.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 01, 2014, 08:23:25 PM
Newbill is better than Lockett. Jamil is WAY better than Juan or STjr.
www.youtube.com/embed/T-zrjVTq2ok