MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TallTitan34 on October 22, 2007, 11:12:29 AM

Title: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: TallTitan34 on October 22, 2007, 11:12:29 AM
The three amigos are on pace to break quite a few Marquette records shortly.  These records are assuming all three stay for the next two years.

Also keep in mind Wes missed a significant portion of his freshman season and Jerel missed a few games last season due to injury.

All-Time Scoring Leaders
Name
Current Points
On Pace
Rank
Notes
Dominic James
979
1958
#1
185 points ahead of #2 George Thompson
Jerel McNeal
769
1538
#12
29 points behind #11 Steve Novak
Wesley Matthews
637
1274
#25
4 points behind #24 Jim McIlvaine

All-Time Steals Leaders
Name
Current Steals
On Pace
Rank
Notes
Jerel McNeal
140
280
#1
8 steals ahead of #2 Michael Wilson
Dominic James
114
228
#4
25 steals ahead of #5 Doc Rivers
Wesley Matthews
78
156
#11
2 steals behind #10 Travis Diener

(All-Ranks of Past Players Are Assuming The Amigos Pass Them)
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 22, 2007, 11:17:01 AM
I sincerely felt sorry for Travis when he lost the chance to break Thompson's scoring record. I have to admit I do not want to see Dominic break that record.

If ever there has been a person deserving of a record, it's Jerel and that steals record. I hope he breaks that by more than 4.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: TallTitan34 on October 22, 2007, 11:22:54 AM
Yeah I believe he was 82 points behind with 5 games to go.

Not to mention other games he missed that season due to injury.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: NotAnAlum on October 22, 2007, 12:13:10 PM
That bummed me out as well.  There is no question that Travis would have broken that record if he had played at the end of the season.  He was regularly going for 24+ and they would have probably won at least one NIT game giving him even more margin.  I was really hoping that he might get it on senior day, how great would that have been.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: 🏀 on October 22, 2007, 12:17:06 PM
DJ really doesn't deserve the record. I hope he doesn't get it.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: TallTitan34 on October 22, 2007, 12:28:33 PM
Quote from: marqptm on October 22, 2007, 12:17:06 PM
DJ really doesn't deserve the record. I hope he doesn't get it.

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 22, 2007, 11:17:01 AM
I sincerely felt sorry for Travis when he lost the chance to break Thompson's scoring record. I have to admit I do not want to see Dominic break that record.

If Dom doesn't return for his senior year you will get your wish.  Other than that I don't see anyway he doesn't break it.  He would still be on pace to score 1469 points, however, putting him 15th all time.  Two points behind Roney Eford.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: ilovefreeway on October 22, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: marqptm on October 22, 2007, 12:17:06 PM
DJ really doesn't deserve the record. I hope he doesn't get it.

Besides being a great ball palyer and a good kid, what else hasd DJ done to make you hate him so?
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: Sir Lawrence on October 22, 2007, 12:35:27 PM
No disrespect to Travis intended, but George put up his numbers in three seasons. 
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: TallTitan34 on October 22, 2007, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on October 22, 2007, 12:35:27 PM
No disrespect to Travis intended, but George put up his numbers in three seasons. 

And without a three point line.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: 🏀 on October 22, 2007, 12:44:26 PM
Quote from: ilovefreeway on October 22, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: marqptm on October 22, 2007, 12:17:06 PM
DJ really doesn't deserve the record. I hope he doesn't get it.

Besides being a great ball palyer and a good kid, what else hasd DJ done to make you hate him so?

Let's see, George Thompson was a legend. DJ will not be remembered in the same light if his career follows as it has. He was under produced, been selfish, and makes terrible decisions.

Personally, I don't find him as a player I can like. His personality strikes me wrong. I don't think he gives it his all on the court, games and practices.

Travis on the other hand, I feel is the anti-DJ. He wasn't nearly as athletic, but built talents such as 3-point shooting. He was fearless, played with reckless abandon, and was great leader from day one.

I would love for DJ to change my impressions though.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: TallTitan34 on October 22, 2007, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: marqptm on October 22, 2007, 12:44:26 PM
He was fearless, played with reckless abandon, and was great leader from day one.

This link below always reminds me of how Travis played.  He was never afraid to hop a scorers table or even a few rows of chairs for a ball.  He showed the same instensity in an exhibition as he would a NCAA tourny game.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/sports/mu/img/jan04/trav120.jpg (http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/sports/mu/img/jan04/trav120.jpg)

Quote from: marqptm on October 22, 2007, 12:44:26 PM
I don't think he gives it his all on the court, games and practices.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he doesn't give it his all. 
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: 🏀 on October 22, 2007, 01:10:51 PM
I think he dogs it 20% of the time in games. You can tell when his intensity and effort lowers. He gets defeated easily in his mind.

Travis never stopped.

(http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1998294.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939057D9939C83F1062E57328FB42FD1E75A5397277B4DC33E)
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: TallTitan34 on October 22, 2007, 01:15:05 PM
I'll admit DJ doesn't play to the same intensity as Travis did but there are few that do.

That doesn't mean that DJ doesn't give it his all.  If anything when DJ struggles I think it is because he is forcing something that isn't there.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 22, 2007, 01:21:15 PM
I would rather our all-time leading scorer not be a player who banks in a significant number of his jump shots.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: Knights04 on October 22, 2007, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 22, 2007, 01:21:15 PM
I would rather our all-time leading scorer not be a player who banks in a significant number of his jump shots.

The above is a stupid post.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: 🏀 on October 22, 2007, 01:55:06 PM
Quote from: Knights04 on October 22, 2007, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 22, 2007, 01:21:15 PM
I would rather our all-time leading scorer not be a player who banks in a significant number of his jump shots.

The above is a stupid post.

I pretty much agree with PRN.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: jmayer1 on October 22, 2007, 02:33:30 PM
Whether you like the way he plays or not; DJ is a helluva a player who I believe gives it his all every single game and has led Marquette to back to back NCAA bids.  To say you hope that a current Marquette player doesn't break a record, or worse doesn't deserve to break it, is a really sh!tty thing to say.  You can criticize how he plays or what he doesn't do well (shoot outside); but I would like to think that Marquette alumni and fans are classier than this.
Title: Everyone is entitled to their opinion
Post by: mugrad99 on October 22, 2007, 02:39:51 PM
But hoping a current player doesn't have enough success to break this record is really a crappy thing to say.....If he plays 2 full years, his pretty much assured to break it. DJ does nothing but show class on and off the court.  I honestly don't know why some of you act like he robbed your daughter of her virginity.

But then PRN, in my opinion is a real piece of work, and I wouldn't expect anything more out of him.

Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: tower912 on October 22, 2007, 02:50:41 PM
Who knows?  Maybe Iman read MUscoop and realized there are nimrods who root against the success or their own players because they don't like their 'style'.   Or who openly root against their coach because he is too much of a salesman-type for them.    Sad.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 22, 2007, 03:02:35 PM
As I see it, there are two kinds of "nimrods" on this board:

1. The kind that think they are required to constantly paint rosy pictures about everything having to do with MU. You either bow to the coach and root for every hallowed record to be broken or you are  not a real fan.

2. The kind who throw the term "classy" around when discussing being the fan of a basketball team. Get serious. Wimbledon fans are considered "classy," except when they're running on the court naked. Classy? Are you kidding me? 

I am not wishing ill will on anybody. I don't want Thompson's record broken. What's the problem? I didn't want Walter Payton's record broken either. 
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: 🏀 on October 22, 2007, 03:09:41 PM
Sad? I don't see the 'sadness' anywhere.

I'm not a big DJ fan. I'm not pushing it on you. I think he is a tremendous athlete, but I don't like the way he plays the game. He can still change my impression of him, but I enjoy fundamentals. Shooting, passing, and defensive. He is subpar in two of them, his defense is alright.

I'd rather see a TD/SN 3-point basket than an athletic move to the hoop anyday. Shooting is a skill, not a 'god-given' talent. DJ has relied on his talent, and to this day has done very little improving his skills. If he was actually 'giving it his all', would free-throw shooting be so hard? Where are the stories of DJ going back to The Al after a game and shooting all night long?....right....

I'm not hating the kid, but I believe more in other players. I'm sorry to root for a former player more than a current one.  ::)
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: ToddPacker on October 22, 2007, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 22, 2007, 03:02:35 PM
As I see it, there are two kinds of "nimrods" on this board:

1. The kind that think they are required to constantly paint rosy pictures about everything having to do with MU. You either bow to the coach and root for every hallowed record to be broken or you are  not a real fan.

2. The kind who throw the term "classy" around when discussing being the fan of a basketball team. Get serious. Wimbledon fans are considered "classy," except when they're running on the court naked. Classy? Are you kidding me? 

I am not wishing ill will on anybody. I don't want Thompson's record broken. What's the problem? I didn't want Walter Payton's record broken either. 

So, which kind of nimrod are you then?  I bet you that a majority of posters here think you are a nimrod, however, you conveniently have not included a category which captures "fans" such as yourself.  I will attempt to do so for you.

3.  The kind that constantly whine, moan, and complain about anything and everything related to the head coach, and sometimes, on special occasions, about things not related to our head coach. 

Moving on:  Why is shooting a skill and getting to the hoop not?  I have seen tremendous athletes who are terrible basketball players. You seem to think that DJ is not working his tail off and that makes me laugh.  Do you think Crean lets him dog it out there? 
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: 🏀 on October 22, 2007, 03:36:31 PM
Crean doesn't let him dog it. Hence why he saw the bench a bit last year. And he will see the bench this year with Acker deserving some minutes.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: jmayer1 on October 22, 2007, 05:36:59 PM
marqptm: Just because you don't like the way he plays gives you no reason to say he doesn't deserve it.  If he gets the record he deserves it.

Would you have been mad if DWade broke the scoring record because he couldn't shoot outside?

DJames isn't a great shooter, but is an excellent defender and pretty good passer.  I would say also say penetration is a pretty good skill; one which he excels at.

prn: I am not rooting for records to be broken (I love that Thompson is the leading scorer) but I sure as hell don't root against records being broken.  That shows a complete lack of class.  Do you ever think you would see a guy like Jack Nicklaus come out and say he is rooting for Tiger to fail? No, never.  Classy guys say they love having the record, but records are made to be broken and if someone breaks it, so be it.  Also, you can use classy to describe basketball fans; however you may be unware of that as you often seem to be lacking of it.

Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: spartan3186 on October 22, 2007, 06:23:11 PM
Quote
Shooting, passing, and defensive. He is subpar in two of them, his defense is alright.

Wow how do you figure he is subpar passing?? His court vision is outstanding and he makes passes that most people could not dream of making. Occassionally he'll make a bad pass but so does everyone. I just don't see how he's a subpar passer. Have you ever listened to all the game day analysts? They all praise DJ for his passing ability....
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 22, 2007, 06:33:42 PM
If DJ breaks the record, it's because he busted his butt and deserves to break the record.  More power to him.  I like the kid and I loved Diener too.  I don't see DJ dogging it but I guess others do.  The kid wants to win and so did Diener, that's why I enjoy watching them play so much.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: Pakuni on October 22, 2007, 07:48:38 PM
On pace to break MU's all-time scoring record, be top five all-time in steals, second in assists, first in games played and could win 90+ games when all is said and done.

Just imagine what he might accomplish if he were, you know, any good at this basketball thingy.

This thread further validates my belief that DJ is the most underappreciated Marquette player in at least the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 22, 2007, 07:52:52 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on October 22, 2007, 07:48:38 PM

This thread further validates my belief that DJ is the most underappreciated Marquette player in at least the last 20 years.

You might be on to something and I think by and large it is due to his high rankings coming out of high school.  It's like the fans ripping the #1 draft choice but cutting the 4th rounder a break.

James is viewed in a different prism because of his recruiting rankings.  I believe Mason was as well, so was Novak for 3 years.  Some people expect these kids to just take over from day 1 and some do....DJ had a great Freshman year.  By most standards, a very good sophomore year, but because of his rankings and his freshman debut, the expectations were even higher by some.

He has had a more productive a first two years at MU then probably 98% of MU players in it's history.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 22, 2007, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: jmayer1 on October 22, 2007, 05:36:59 PM
prn: I am not rooting for records to be broken (I love that Thompson is the leading scorer) but I sure as hell don't root against records being broken.  That shows a complete lack of class.  Do you ever think you would see a guy like Jack Nicklaus come out and say he is rooting for Tiger to fail? No, never.  Classy guys say they love having the record, but records are made to be broken and if someone breaks it, so be it.  Also, you can use classy to describe basketball fans; however you may be unware of that as you often seem to be lacking of it.

Perhaps you can point out to me where I said I'd be "rooting against" any of our players.

Preposterous!
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: 🏀 on October 22, 2007, 08:06:56 PM
First and foremost, we are talking right now if he broke the record, I wouldn't be thrilled. If he continued the same caliber of play, I don't think he becomes a Marquette Legend.

I feel like other players are liked more than others because you can point to their careers and see what they have accomplished. As of now DJ has accomplished nothing.

I also feel that looking at other careers, the players positives outweigh the negatives. Right now, DJ is leading in negatives. His issues at the end of the year, the NBA and how dedicated he was to leaving, shortcomings in the tournament, and he didn't play to his potential last year. I realize it was a good season, but weren't we all expecting more.

Like I've said throughout the thread, he can easily change my opinion.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: bilsu on October 22, 2007, 08:26:11 PM
James was a legend after his freshman year.  Self-destructed his sophomore year. We will see what happens this year.

Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: tower912 on October 22, 2007, 08:40:36 PM
Chico's, it is so nice to agree with you for a change.  I can tell we aren't talking politics.  ;D   If DJ stays two years and plays as he has, he sets the record.   He will have earned it.    As a 5'11" guard, he will have scored the most points and either dished out the most assists or very near to it, and probably have a three way tie with Jerel and Wes for most wins in a career.  He won't be Barry Bonds, with a body by steroids and suspicions forever dogging his records.   He will have done it on the same 94' ft long court with 10' high baskets that they have all had to play on. (Not necessarily at the Bradley Center, obviously, but stay with me)    Four years vs. 3?  Fair enough.   Not his fault.     Don't root against him.   Hope his game improves year by year like it is supposed to.   Hope that his new shooting form pays off.    Rooting against the starting point guard IS to root against the success of the team.   'I hope he blows it but we still win' isn't healthy.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: TallTitan34 on October 22, 2007, 09:19:59 PM
Quote from: tower912 on October 22, 2007, 08:40:36 PM
As a 5'11" guard, he will have scored the most points and either dished out the most assists or very near to it, and probably have a three way tie with Jerel and Wes for most wins in a career.

Wes was injured for a month or so his freshman year and Jerel had the injury last year.  Dominic is already ahead of both in wins.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: MUDPT on October 22, 2007, 09:48:04 PM
If DJ breaks the scoring record, doesn't that mean he scores a lot of points? And isn't points what they count when they determine who wins a basketball game?  This is like Bill Melton telling people that you don't want Soriano hitting home runs in the lead off spot. No, you want points, runs, whatever to win the game, that's how they tell who wins.  If DJ scores 30 a night and MU doesn't make the tournament the next two years, then yeah I will be mad that he said the record.  But I don't see that happening.

And it is my belief that TD was the most overrated leader in the history of leadership.  He was way too demonstrative on the court and to his teammates.  Re-watch the 2005 home DePaul game sometime.  Or read some quotes from players (I think Novak) the year after he left, that talked about how much more relaxed they were and how Travis was just to intense.  Just my take on things.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: 77ncaachamps on October 22, 2007, 10:07:19 PM
I think with all of the things said about DJ and Travis, it can be summed up in one question:

If you could have DJ or Travis run last year's team, who would you pick?

Diener, two hands, two feet, and an appendage down.  ;)
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 22, 2007, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on October 22, 2007, 10:07:19 PM
I think with all of the things said about DJ and Travis, it can be summed up in one question:

If you could have DJ or Travis run last year's team, who would you pick?

Diener, two hands, two feet, and an appendage down.  ;)

Fair enough and I don't disagree with you.  That being said, if I have a choice between Ms. Nevada and Ms. Arizona, both are going to suit me just fine even if one has a tiny scar on her butt.  :)
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: 🏀 on October 22, 2007, 11:29:22 PM
Whoa Whoa Whoa. Just how tiny is this scar?
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: TallTitan34 on October 22, 2007, 11:31:35 PM
Staying on topic Ms. Wisconsin = Marquette Grad
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: tower912 on October 23, 2007, 06:03:52 AM
Travis Diener running last year's team would have given it one of the things it lacked, a consistent outside shooter.  So, yeah, TD on last year's team would have been cool.   Of course, Dwyane Wade, Steve Novak, and Robert Jackson with McIlvaine coming off the bench on last year's team would have been even cooler.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: bilsu on October 23, 2007, 07:30:11 AM
He cannot throw an alley oop pass.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on October 23, 2007, 11:54:07 AM
Quote from: bilsu on October 23, 2007, 07:30:11 AM
He cannot throw an alley oop pass.

I'm sure I'll get railed for this, but I think DJ is the better defender between the two.

TD the better shooter and pure PG.

DJ more athletic and can do some things going to the hoop that TD didn't do.


Totally different players but playing the same spot.  Glad we've had them both at MU.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: muwarrior87 on October 23, 2007, 04:23:09 PM
Gotta agree w/ Chicos, It's really hard to compare TD and DJ.  While they play the same position, they have completely different assets.  James has a ton of athleticism but Diener was a true PG.  Travis gave so much every game, and while I think James definitely tries, he doesn't have the consistent output Travis did. Part of that, IMO, is that DJ feeds off the intensity Jerel brings to the games, which made Jerel's injury hurt more than just losing a body, we lost intensity too...and i don't mean the dancers, who will no longer be performing, can we get those guys from MM for the season?? but anywho...

If James can bring the intensity Travis did game in and game out and throughout the game, we're in a lot better position than when he rollercoasters throughout games and the season like he has done.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: HarveysWallbangers on October 23, 2007, 04:43:23 PM
Intensity isn't involved anymore? I hope those beauties will be merged with the cheerleaders. Wasn't that Miss Wisconsin a member of Intensity? She was easy on the eyes!
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: dwaderoy2004 on October 23, 2007, 04:49:01 PM
not sure i would describe diener as a "true point guard."  the dude was definitely more of a scoring point.  His assist numbers were right on par with DJ.  Diener's career average was 5.1 APG while DJ is currently at 4.9 APG.  Granted, MU needed him to score a bunch his last two seasons, but still...
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on October 24, 2007, 07:52:15 AM
Quote from: marqptm on October 22, 2007, 12:44:26 PM
Quote from: ilovefreeway on October 22, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: marqptm on October 22, 2007, 12:17:06 PM
DJ really doesn't deserve the record. I hope he doesn't get it.

Besides being a great ball palyer and a good kid, what else hasd DJ done to make you hate him so?

Let's see, George Thompson was a legend. DJ will not be remembered in the same light if his career follows as it has. He was under produced, been selfish, and makes terrible decisions.

Personally, I don't find him as a player I can like. His personality strikes me wrong. I don't think he gives it his all on the court, games and practices.

Travis on the other hand, I feel is the anti-DJ. He wasn't nearly as athletic, but built talents such as 3-point shooting. He was fearless, played with reckless abandon, and was great leader from day one.

I would love for DJ to change my impressions though.

This is an interesting post, because I think there is definitely a portion of MU fans that feel the same way.

I have to say that I definitely disagree with you about DJ, and I think the reason why you and some others dislike him is simply because expectations and hype were through the roof last year.

Trust me, DJ is a very nice kid (met him several times, never got any "attitude" from him), he works his butt off (have you ever seen any Crean player coast in a game or practice?), and he's going to have a solid year.

I understand some people's frustrations with him (he's not a great shooter, he probably shoots too much, sometimes the game doesn't "flow" for him like it did for Travis, he stands and dribbles a lot, which drives me crazy, etc.).

I feel the same way sometimes.

But, you have to take the good with the bad with DJ. No way MU wins the Valpo game if DJ didn't get atomically hot and single handedly beat them. BUT, I also recognize that he took a lot of jumpers that didn't look so good in several other games.

Is he the next DW3? No. But, he does have some unique talents, and another year of maturity should help him greatly.

I have no problem with George Thompson fans saying that they hope his record stands forever, but it's a little harsh to call out a player and say "I hope he doesn't get it". I mean, come on.

If DJ stays for 4 years and breaks it, then he deserves to break it. AND if you want some more perspective on the whole record breaking topic, watch the movie 61*.
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: jaygall31 on October 24, 2007, 03:56:31 PM
james wont be here in 08-09. cross him off the list
Title: Re: Marquette Records to be Broken Soon
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on October 25, 2007, 07:56:07 AM
Quote from: jaygall31 on October 24, 2007, 03:56:31 PM
james wont be here in 08-09. cross him off the list

I think you are probably right, however, if he is here and breaks the record... he will deserve it.