It's official:
#mubb guard Duane Wilson to redshirt in 2013-14. Freshman yet to play for MU after preseason leg injury.
Good decision
That tweet was from the MU hoops Twitter account BTW.
Well that is just terrible news >:(
Dang. Was hoping he'd provide some scoring this year. Was told he was ready to go, wonder if he was just not ready to contribute significant minutes. That makes next year's class very big (in terms of numbers).
I think it's the right decision. I think his impact would have been minimal this season.
Towel has been thrown in.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Towel has been thrown in.
Maybe a bit strong, but I think if this team were 10-2 or 9-3 the decision would have been much tougher.
Probably the right decision but hurts as a fan. One hope for improvement was him being a stud freshmen and helping our offense.
I doubt Buzz thinks he is an early entrant candidate. If he was that kind of player, this team could have used him even if it's just for the final two months. If Buzz thinks he could've helped the team this year substantially, he would've used up a year of his eligibility. No reason to base a decision that affects this year's team for something 3 years down the line. You can always recruit a replacement and too many variables can happen.
Oh crap!
At the end of the day, this type of decision is left to the player and his family - based on Buzz's historical comments on these matters.
So, my take on this is that Duane and his family decided it was in his best interests to redshirt this year. Gotta be really hard on the kid to delay his college ball experience for a year, yet in my opinion this gives him the best prospects for his future. Can ensure his leg injury is fully healed and not put premature stress on it, hit the weight room - he needs to bulk up - and work on shot. If he comes in next year and lights it up, and the following year...he can still leave early for NBA draft if he wants....but if not..still has more time in program to develop his skills.
I applaud this decision by Duane and his family - think it is the harder of the two choices, yet not short sighted.
Quote from: Ners on December 27, 2013, 11:52:07 AM
At the end of the day, this type of decision is left to the player and his family - based on Buzz's historical comments on these matters.
So, my take on this is that Duane and his family decided it was in his best interests to redshirt this year. Gotta be really hard on the kid to delay his college ball experience for a year, yet in my opinion this gives him the best prospects for his future. Can ensure his leg injury is fully healed and not put premature stress on it, hit the weight room - he needs to bulk up - and work on shot. If he comes in next year and lights it up, and the following year...he can still leave early for NBA draft if he wants....but if not..still has more time in program to develop his skills.
I applaud this decision by Duane and his family - think it is the harder of the two choices, yet not short sighted.
Additionally, it allows Duane the ability to space out his degree over five years instead of four. Should lighten his course load and allow him to spend more time on basketball.
If he was going to average 5 mpg in garbage time it's a bargain for the option to play an extra year as the team leader, even if he wouldn't take it when the time comes. Either go balls out and make him a serious part of the rotation or do this.
Smart move. He's been on the shelf a long time and this team is going nowhere anyway, w/or w/o him.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Towel has been thrown in.
I agree! While I don't think he was going to be the savior of our season, it means we are going to be status quo with what we have...As we know that has been pretty awful. I was hopeful he could provide a spark and round into form as the conference season wore on. Was there a deadline for when we had to declare a redshirt for him? We still have over half our season left and the timing seems odd to me. He was rumored to be getting close a couple weeks ago.
gives him another year of playing with Diamond Stone
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 11:41:54 AM
Towel has been thrown in.
Yep. No sense in burning a year with a team that's not going anywhere.
I think it's the right decision, but it still sucks. It definitely puts a ceiling on this year's team since they play 4 on 5 when Derrick is in as well as when they have Jamil playing out of position.
Well I guess there is always the option to remove the redshirt.
He wasn't going to make that much of a difference this year anyway. Good move.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 27, 2013, 12:05:07 PM
Yep. No sense in burning a year with a team that's not going anywhere.
I'm still not ready to write this team off this year, and still have belief it can be a Sweet 16 caliber team. There is a lot of talent on the roster, and Buzz is just going to have to continue to tinker and find the right mix/chemistry - but I believe the ingredients are there to still be successful. Think come late February/March the team will be much improved, and could make a run through Big East tourney.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on December 27, 2013, 12:04:50 PM
gives him another year of playing with Diamond Stone
Diamond will only be at Marquette for two years.
Disappointing in many ways. Feel badly for the kid and hope he is happy with decision. I would have liked to see him out there, but such is life.
Quote from: Ners on December 27, 2013, 12:17:57 PM
I'm still not ready to write this team off this year, and still have belief it can be a Sweet 16 caliber team. There is a lot of talent on the roster, and Buzz is just going to have to continue to tinker and find the right mix/chemistry - but I believe the ingredients are there to still be successful. Think come late February/March the team will be much improved, and could make a run through Big East tourney.
Agreed. Also agree with what Sultan said. I still hold out hope for this team. They have the tools and talent. In the vast majority of games coming up, we will have the most talented athlete on the floor in Jamil.
The key to this season is Jamil playing to his potential, and Derrick continuing to evolve as a PG (learning how to feed the OX and scoring more consistently). Of course, Juan stepping up as the glue guy, and Burton continuing on his current path will certainly help too.
I contend that if Jamil and Derrick evolve as noted above, this will be a very different team come March. Keep in mind, with the exception of the OSU game, we have been in everyone of our losses. We just need to figure out how get it over the hump....knowing how to finish tight games well. I believe we will.....but time will tell.
Quote from: Ners on December 27, 2013, 12:17:57 PM
There is a lot of talent on the roster
Let's not confuse "talent" with athleticism or potential.
This team struggles with the basics. Defensive positioning, shooting, passing have all been bad. Talented teams don't struggle with those things.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 12:08:21 PM
Well I guess there is always the option to remove the redshirt.
I was thinking the same thing. 2 months from now if he is completely healthy, kicking ass in practice and we are a bubble team with the other D.Wilson not improving......I could see Buzz throwing him into the fire.
I agree the decision is on the player on rather to actually redshirt or not, but I don't think they get that option unless that is what Buzz really wants. In other words Buzz won't make anyone redshirt, but I doubt he lets someone redshirt if he wants them on the court this year or doesn't feel that player is worth 5 years of scholarships.
It has nothing to do with throwing in the towel, and everything to do what Duane and his family think is in his best interest. I wish him well in his recovery.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 27, 2013, 12:33:15 PM
Let's not confuse "talent" with athleticism or potential.
This team struggles with the basics. Defensive positioning, shooting, passing have all been bad. Talented teams don't struggle with those things.
So last year's team that made the elite 8 was talented and this year's team is not?
I find it hard to believe that J. Wilson, D. Wilson, Gardner, Otule, Thomas, Taylor and Anderson lost talent over the course of the summer and the freshmen who many want to see play additional minutes don't have any.
Individually, this team is extremely talented, they are just not meshing together at the moment and might not all year.
Quote from: PTM on December 27, 2013, 12:18:06 PM
Diamond will only be at Marquette for two years.
I'm figurin' he's a one and done playa. Also, don't think Duane is gonna complete his 4 years of eligibility either.
Quote from: mufanatic on December 27, 2013, 12:47:12 PM
So last year's team that made the elite 8 was talented and this year's team is not?
I find it hard to believe that J. Wilson, D. Wilson, Gardner, Otule, Thomas, Taylor and Anderson lost talent over the course of the summer and the freshmen who many want to see play additional minutes don't have any.
Individually, this team is extremely talented, they are just not meshing together at the moment and might not all year.
What I'm saying is that this team's talent level is hugely overrated. Last year, they played above it. But they also worked a hell of a lot harder than this team.
They've shown flashes. Potential. Athletic plays. But flashes do not win games.
Quote from: ecompt on December 27, 2013, 11:44:24 AM
Maybe a bit strong, but I think if this team were 10-2 or 9-3 the decision would have been much tougher.
I don't know if you can make that statement. I could just as easily say that being 7-5 made this decision a lot tougher. At 10-2 or 9-3, we are having a successful season with a great chance of making the tournament without Duane so why rush him onto the court when he is not needed. Redshirt him and you get 4 years.
At 7-5 and a huge weakness at the pg position, if Duane is as good as advertised, he could turn our weakness into a strength and be hitting his stride at the end of the year when we might need that extra push to get us into the tournament. It makes that decision to redshirt a lot tougher.
Its obvious that he is not ready to make a contribution any time soon and might have even had a setback if they are declaring him a redshirt before conference play begins.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 27, 2013, 12:46:17 PM
It has nothing to do with throwing in the towel, and everything to do what Duane and his family think is in his best interest. I wish him well in his recovery.
So if Buzz thought Duane was the difference between making the tourney and not making the tourney, he would let Duane and his family decide what's best for the individual including creating another year on scholarship?
I can almost guarantee Buzz has a huge say on whether or not Duane would be allowed another year on scholarship. If Buzz said "No, Duane. I have plans for that 5th year on another player." Duane would still be redshirting? Buzz created the options and then let Duane decide if he wanted to come back for a fifth year or not. Buzz can't force him to redshirt, but he can say there is no point to redshirting.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 27, 2013, 12:53:11 PM
What I'm saying is that this team's talent level is hugely overrated. Last year, they played above it. But they also worked a hell of a lot harder than this team.
They've shown flashes. Potential. Athletic plays. But flashes do not win games.
I don't know if this team works just as hard, harder or less harder than last year's team but there are 7 players from last year's team that are on this year's team and the main core have been here going on at least 3 years, so I would think they know how hard they should be working and are probably working just as hard as last year.
You are correct that flashes don't win games. Teams win games and right now, this very talented group of individuals are not meshing together and playing as a team.
Quote from: LAZER on December 27, 2013, 11:37:01 AM
I think it's the right decision. I think his impact would have been minimal this season.
I agree also. I would have liked to see him play with Otule, Gardner and Wilson and observe how he passes into the bigmen up front. Next year, no bigmen, so that is out. Let him get healthy, stronger and maybe he gets some time next year behind Derrick Wilson. Practice counts....
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 27, 2013, 12:58:31 PM
So if Buzz thought Duane was the difference between making the tourney and not making the tourney, he would let Duane and his family decide what's best for the individual including creating another year on scholarship?
I can almost guarantee Buzz has a huge say on whether or not Duane would be allowed another year on scholarship. If Buzz said "No, Duane. I have plans for that 5th year on another player." Duane would still be redshirting? Buzz created the options and then let Duane decide if he wanted to come back for a fifth year or not. Buzz can't force him to redshirt, but he can say there is no point to redshirting.
Sounds like you think Buzz's life lessons and talk about the interest of the players is just a bunch of stuff for the press.
I don't. I think if the player and family believe redshirting is in his best interest, Buzz would support him and not threaten to pull the scholarship.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 27, 2013, 12:48:20 PM
I'm figurin' he's a one and done playa. Also, don't think Duane is gonna complete his 4 years of eligibility either.
Like all great state of Wisconsin, McDonalds big men, he will redshirt.
Good decision for Duane.
The downside for fans is we will get to hear another year of how he is not ready to replace DeWilson next year. I can hear it now "how can Buzz take minutes away from super defensive stud senior De Wilson for a redshirt freshman who has never played a minute yet."
Quote from: PTM on December 27, 2013, 12:18:06 PM
Diamond will only be at Marquette for two years.
So he's a 2 and through? As opposed to a 3 and flee? Not to mention a 4 and out the door?
We won't discuss Otule.
This is the best decision for the student-athlete, who's goal is to make the League.
John Dawson, improve quickly!
I think it was a great decision for Duane and his fam, he's a smart kid.
Good decision in the long run.
NIT, HERE WE COME!! With D Wilson running the show, this year is a waste.
1. I'm happy for Duane because, in the long term, I think this was the most prudent decision. Buzz had input, I'm sure (as he should have) but the decision almost certainly was predominantly Duane's -- just as the decision to play was predominantly Junior's five years ago.
2. I'm sad for me and those like me because I wanted to see him play and, even if he never replaced Derrick, we could use the outside shooting.
3. But I'm happy for me and those like me because now I don't have to see 2 new topics posted per week (and all the unsubstantiated speculation that follows) on Duane's imminent return.
IMHO this is the best decision for Duane and the program.
And no, this happening does not mean that we are throwing in the towel
Quote from: MU82 on December 27, 2013, 01:54:18 PM
3. But I'm happy for me and those like me because now I don't have to see 2 new topics posted per week (and all the unsubstantiated speculation that follows) on Duane's imminent return.
+100
Quote from: Untucked on December 27, 2013, 01:48:24 PM
Good decision in the long run.
NIT, HERE WE COME!! With D Wilson running the show, this year is a waste.
I guess you don't subscribe to the life-is-the-journey school of thought.
Curious, though: At what point does a season become "a waste"?
If we had lost to Davidson, would last season have been a waste -- or was it a waste anyway because we didn't make the Final Four? Is every season in which the team doesn't make the NCAAs a waste? Was 2003 a waste because we got blown out in the Final Four and didn't achieve the ultimate goal of a championship? Were the careers of Wade, Novak and Diener a waste because, between them, they only had one season with any NCAA tourney wins (and they didn't win the title that year, either)?
Can't a person enjoy watching their favorite team if that team doesn't reach the NCAA tournament, or do only "losers" enjoy rooting for their alma mater just because?
Quote from: MU82 on December 27, 2013, 01:59:48 PM
I guess you don't subscribe to the life-is-the-journey school of thought.
Curious, though: At what point does a season become "a waste"?
If we had lost to Davidson, would last season have been a waste -- or was it a waste anyway because we didn't make the Final Four? Is every season in which the team doesn't make the NCAAs a waste? Was 2003 a waste because we got blown out in the Final Four and didn't achieve the ultimate goal of a championship? Were the careers of Wade, Novak and Diener a waste because, between them, they only had one season with any NCAA tourney wins (and they didn't win the title that year, either)?
Can't a person enjoy watching their favorite team if that team doesn't reach the NCAA tournament, or do only "losers" enjoy rooting for their alma mater just because?
I think the waste is that we may not make the tourney despite having the best front court that we've had in a long time. We have Jamil Wilson, Davante Gardner, and Chris Otule who are really good players, and it is disappointing that we may not make the tourney.
Quote from: MU82 on December 27, 2013, 01:54:18 PM
3. But I'm happy for me and those like me because now I don't have to see 2 new topics posted per week (and all the unsubstantiated speculation that follows) on Duane's imminent return.
One of those two available topics will likely be diverted to a variation of Derrick's good/bad, the other a similar thread about Jake.
Probably the proper decision for Duane. After all of the time he missed, it was unlikely he was going to be able to make a huge contribution this year. Plus, if a season-ending injury happens to somebody else, it can always be pulled.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 27, 2013, 12:58:31 PM
So if Buzz thought Duane was the difference between making the tourney and not making the tourney, he would let Duane and his family decide what's best for the individual including creating another year on scholarship?
I can almost guarantee Buzz has a huge say on whether or not Duane would be allowed another year on scholarship. If Buzz said "No, Duane. I have plans for that 5th year on another player." Duane would still be redshirting? Buzz created the options and then let Duane decide if he wanted to come back for a fifth year or not. Buzz can't force him to redshirt, but he can say there is no point to redshirting.
What plans would Buzz conceivably have for the 5th year on another player? Said player would be a freshman in high school right now. Of course Buzz is allowing him to redshirt, but it's not like it's some difficult decision on his part.
Why can't we put Jamil at the PG. At least he passes the ball inside. Might make OX play harder.
Lately, I think he looks lost.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 27, 2013, 02:15:58 PM
What plans would Buzz conceivably have for the 5th year on another player? Said player would be a freshman in high school right now. Of course Buzz is allowing him to redshirt, but it's not like it's some difficult decision on his part.
It was more along the line of people making it sound like it was completely Duane's decision. I'm just saying Buzz has a huge say in it no matter what and Buzz's interest aren't always in line with the player's. If Duane wasn't extremely talented and was more of Dawson type player, I don't think Buzz would be as happy filling up an extra year on the scholarship table.
QuoteSounds like you think Buzz's life lessons and talk about the interest of the players is just a bunch of stuff for the press.
I don't. I think if the player and family believe redshirting is in his best interest, Buzz would support him and not threaten to pull the scholarship.
I do think people overstate the life lessons talks. You can't be a D-1 coach and make decisions to help the program succeed while completely looking in the best interest of individual players. Buzz doesn't magically sign Jamil the same day a player decommits. Buzz has goals for this program and will take on better players if necessary. Buzz is probably in the top quarter of least slimy D-1 coaches, but I still see plenty of "aww-shucks" salesman in him.
And buzz wouldn't be pulling a scholarship. He committed to 4 years and it is not up to the player to think he is guaranteed five.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 27, 2013, 03:06:20 PM
It was more along the line of people making it sound like it was completely Duane's decision. I'm just saying Buzz has a huge say in it no matter what and Buzz's interest aren't always in line with the player's. If Duane wasn't extremely talented and was more of Dawson type player, I don't think Buzz would be as happy filling up an extra year on the scholarship table.
I do think people overstate the life lessons talks. You can't be a D-1 coach and make decisions to help the program succeed while completely looking in the best interest of individual players. Buzz doesn't magically sign Jamil the same day a player decommits. Buzz has goals for this program and will take on better players if necessary. Buzz is probably in the top quarter of least slimy D-1 coaches, but I still see plenty of "aww-shucks" salesman in him.
And buzz wouldn't be pulling a scholarship. He committed to 4 years and it is not up to the player to think he is guaranteed five.
As we've seen in the past, players are only guaranteed 1 year scholarships. ;D
Quote from: Earl Tatum on December 27, 2013, 02:40:42 PM
Why can't we put Jamil at the PG. At least he passes the ball inside. Might make OX play harder.
Lately, I think he looks lost.
Jamil had more minutes at PG against NM than in any other game. Derrick only played 25 minutes. That is pretty much the least I want to see him against major opponents.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on December 27, 2013, 01:21:02 PM
So he's a 2 and through? As opposed to a 3 and flee? Not to mention a 4 and out the door?
We won't discuss Otule.
Otule? He's 6 and hitting the bricks!
Looks like 2017 will be sporting a starting lineup of (assuming no early declarations or transfers):
1) Duane Wilson
2) Ahmed Hill
3) Sandy Cohen
4) Marial Shayok
5) Satchel Pierce
First off bench:
Malek Harris
Nick Noskowiak
Phillip Flory
To have a vague idea of who your 2017 starting lineup and rotation is in 2013 is pretty awesome. Solid recruiting by Buzz and team
Quote from: mufanatic on December 27, 2013, 12:58:11 PM
I don't know if you can make that statement. I could just as easily say that being 7-5 made this decision a lot tougher. At 10-2 or 9-3, we are having a successful season with a great chance of making the tournament without Duane so why rush him onto the court when he is not needed. Redshirt him and you get 4 years.
At 7-5 and a huge weakness at the pg position, if Duane is as good as advertised, he could turn our weakness into a strength and be hitting his stride at the end of the year when we might need that extra push to get us into the tournament. It makes that decision to redshirt a lot tougher.
Its obvious that he is not ready to make a contribution any time soon and might have even had a setback if they are declaring him a redshirt before conference play begins.
How do you know it is obvious he is not ready to make a contribution any time soon. Who told you that?
It must be Buzz who we all know is a straight shooter. Lots here we are not hearing, but nothing to see here.
What exactly do you need to hear? You spent many posts asking to hear something. Now there is closure. Nowhere is it written that anyone needs to give a reason. A freshman, (who doesn't actually need any reason to redshirt), who suffered a stress fracture in his hip, fell way behind on his conditioning and understanding the offense and defense, presumably after consultation with his family and his coaches, has elected to use his redshirt. It isn't even necessarily a medical redshirt. A conspiracy exists only in the 6 inch space between your ears. Unless you have some incontrovertible inside knowledge you aren't sharing.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 27, 2013, 06:31:20 PM
How do you know it is obvious he is not ready to make a contribution any time soon. Who told you that?
It must be Buzz who we all know is a straight shooter. Lots here we are not hearing, but nothing to see here.
Lots here that we are not hearing? Like what?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 27, 2013, 04:49:27 PM
Looks like 2017 will be sporting a starting lineup of (assuming no early declarations or transfers):
1) Duane Wilson
2) Ahmed Hill
3) Sandy Cohen
4) Marial Shayok
5) Satchel Pierce
First off bench:
Malek Harris
Nick Noskowiak
Phillip Flory
To have a vague idea of who your 2017 starting lineup and rotation is in 2013 is pretty awesome. Solid recruiting by Buzz and team
Now there's a man who can see the big picture! I can't see past lunch, so it's good to have the opposite end of the spectrum brightening up my MU viewing future.
Must have been a really tough decision for Duane. Will be happy to see him coming out at full strength to start next season.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 27, 2013, 08:09:05 PM
Lots here that we are not hearing? Like what?
The voices inside willie's head
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 27, 2013, 08:09:05 PM
Lots here that we are not hearing? Like what?
If you think this story is as simple as the Kid realized he could not contribute/play this year, good for you. In Buzz you trust.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 27, 2013, 04:49:27 PM
Looks like 2017 will be sporting a starting lineup of (assuming no early declarations or transfers):
1) Duane Wilson
2) Ahmed Hill
3) Sandy Cohen
4) Marial Shayok
5) Satchel Pierce
First off bench:
Malek Harris
Nick Noskowiak
Phillip Flory
To have a vague idea of who your 2017 starting lineup and rotation is in 2013 is pretty awesome. Solid recruiting by Buzz and team
Yup--the lineup 4 years down the road looks awesome. Now that is something to look forward to--not so much the current year.
I think red-shirting is the smart thing to do. I am not sure why people think he would make that much difference? JJJ and Burton were higher rated and if both of them also got hurt, we probably would still be 7-5. A healthy Dauane from the start would of been nice, but to think he would of had a biiger impact on our record than JJJ or Burton is just wishful thinking.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 28, 2013, 09:23:56 AM
Yup--the lineup 4 years down the road looks awesome. Now that is something to look forward to--not so much the current year.
Awesome or not, you'll be bitching. It's what you do. Last year we weren't a top 40 team entering the season. We won the Big East Conference Championship, went to the Elite Eight and finished in the top 10. And you still pretty much bitched your way through the season.
Quote from: bilsu on December 28, 2013, 09:29:29 AM
I think red-shirting is the smart thing to do. I am not sure why people think he would make that much difference? JJJ and Burton were higher rated and if both of them also got hurt, we probably would still be 7-5. A healthy Dauane from the start would of been nice, but to think he would of had a biiger impact on our record than JJJ or Burton is just wishful thinking.
He would have had a bigger impact due to the position he plays. Pg is our weakest position and any contribution by him would have helped.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 28, 2013, 09:17:26 AM
If you think this story is as simple as the Kid realized he could not contribute/play this year, good for you. In Buzz you trust.
What else do you think the story could conceivably be?
Duane was in uniform last night, wasn't he? While the players were doing some strange ritual before the game, I saw him in the huddle with the guys goofing around. Of course Buzz/staff wants to keep him involved as much as possible. Is it common for all redshirt players to suit up/warm up every game?
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on January 01, 2014, 05:17:48 PMthe players were doing some strange ritual before the game
Strange ritual?? What the hell were they doing?
(http://www.wildjunket.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/clip_image002_thumb1.jpg)
(http://www.evilsunday.com/wp-content/uploads/new/2011/06/Exorcist-cures-.jpg)
(http://bigpicture.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/solice14.jpg)
(http://rarelyknown.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/002.jpg)
(http://stwww.skateboardermag.com/files/2013/07/161.jpg)
(http://cellar.org/2007/scissorsdance1.jpg)
(http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-42-46566599.jpg?size=67&uid=5ace0fd9-5320-40da-9c50-2b8a3a226c5b)