Just got the greatest day-after-Christmas gift EVER! Could not imagine a better Christmas miracle! This is exactly what the professional sports in Wisconsin has been missing over the past few weeks! You guessed it, folks...LARRY SANDERS IS BACK!
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/237328421.html
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxy5Pv_HaZAnRxXnND3lo6OG4luvjThe8YFZ1H8NSppbliBspR)
Quote from: wadesworld on December 26, 2013, 03:44:58 PM
Just got the greatest day-after-Christmas gift EVER! Could not imagine a better Christmas miracle! This is exactly what the professional sports in Wisconsin has been missing over the past few weeks! You guessed it, folks...LARRY SANDERS IS BACK!
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/237328421.html
boooo this will not help the tank so I am against it.
Hope they peddle his ass for a #1
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 26, 2013, 05:18:32 PM
Hope they peddle his ass for a #1
+1
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 26, 2013, 04:58:40 PM
boooo this will not help the tank so I am against it.
+1. But he is very overrated. Best attribute is his defense, which isn't a problem, but he's just not the all star that Milwaukee thinks he is because, well, Milwaukee doesn't know what an all star basketball player looks like.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 26, 2013, 05:21:02 PM
+1
+1. But he is very overrated. Best attribute is his defense, which isn't a problem, but he's just not the all star that Milwaukee thinks he is because, well, Milwaukee doesn't know what an all star basketball player looks like.
When healthy, he is absolutely an all star.
That being said, I wouldn't cry if they traded him for a lotto pick.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 26, 2013, 05:56:47 PM
When healthy, he is absolutely an all star.
That being said, I wouldn't cry if they traded him for a lotto pick.
Disagreed. He averaged 10 and 10 last year, which obviously isn't anything to be embarrassed about, but at the same time when that is your "future" you know your future isn't all that bright. Most of his effectiveness came from being a high energy guy, not natural ability. He would be an incredible 4th man and defensive centerpiece, but to make him the centerpiece of your entire franchise would be like someone making Ben Wallace or Dennis Rodman the centerpiece of their franchise. Just isn't going to work out well for you.
Umm wasn't Ben Wallace the centerpiece of a championship team?
Also sanders is a top
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 26, 2013, 09:23:09 PM
Umm wasn't Ben Wallace the centerpiece of a championship team?
Also sanders is a top
The centerpiece of a championship team? No. Their defense maybe. But he was the fourth best player on that team. Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, and Tayshaun Prince were all better than Ben Wallace.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 26, 2013, 06:50:34 PM
Disagreed. He averaged 10 and 10 last year, which obviously isn't anything to be embarrassed about, but at the same time when that is your "future" you know your future isn't all that bright. Most of his effectiveness came from being a high energy guy, not natural ability. He would be an incredible 4th man and defensive centerpiece, but to make him the centerpiece of your entire franchise would be like someone making Ben Wallace or Dennis Rodman the centerpiece of their franchise. Just isn't going to work out well for you.
Well more like 13 and 12.5 with 3.7 blk PER 36.
Making him the number 3 in blocks, 2 in blocks per game, 1 is block percentage, and 6th in defensive rating.
He is easily one of the best defenders in the league... and one of the youngest.
You're right though, he may not be a true all star, but he is definitely trending to be one.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 06:53:40 AM
Well more like 13 and 12.5 with 3.7 blk PER 36.
Making him the number 3 in blocks, 2 in blocks per game, 1 is block percentage, and 6th in defensive rating.
He is easily one of the best defenders in the league... and one of the youngest.
You're right though, he may not be a true all star, but he is definitely trending to be one.
Where do you get 13 and 12.5 from? (Not saying that condescendingly, I just looked at his espn.com player page and it has him at 10 and 10, but that could be wrong)
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4265/larry-sanders
I do agree that he is one of the best defenders in the league and his offense has improved, but I don't see his offense ever being a strength, as I see him more of a guy who does the dirty work for his offense vs. someone who just has a natural scoring ability (Durant, Curry, LeBron, etc.). And I do think he could be a huge piece to a championship caliber team, if he ever gets his head on straight, but I don't think I would ever consider him an all star (guys like LeBron, Wade, Curry, Durant, Carmelo, Westbrook, Rose, etc. etc. etc.). I think he will always be at least 1 step below those guys, which doesn't mean he's a bad player.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 27, 2013, 07:37:09 AM
Where do you get 13 and 12.5 from? (Not saying that condescendingly, I just looked at his espn.com player page and it has him at 10 and 10, but that could be wrong)
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4265/larry-sanders
I do agree that he is one of the best defenders in the league and his offense has improved, but I don't see his offense ever being a strength, as I see him more of a guy who does the dirty work for his offense vs. someone who just has a natural scoring ability (Durant, Curry, LeBron, etc.). And I do think he could be a huge piece to a championship caliber team, if he ever gets his head on straight, but I don't think I would ever consider him an all star (guys like LeBron, Wade, Curry, Durant, Carmelo, Westbrook, Rose, etc. etc. etc.). I think he will always be at least 1 step below those guys, which doesn't mean he's a bad player.
I got mine from 36 PER, which is from the greatest basketball reference site!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sandela01.html
I agree. He will never be one of the best players in the league because he doesn't have the ability to score. But he still can be an all star.
Another interesting article yesterday about Larry.
http://www.celticslife.com/2013/12/larry-sanders-reportedly-available-why.html
If the Bucks could unload Larry's contract for a pick... and it was the Celtics unprotected pick... I'd be downright giddy. Though, they'd be fools to do that trade.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 07:49:47 AM
Another interesting article yesterday about Larry.
http://www.celticslife.com/2013/12/larry-sanders-reportedly-available-why.html
If the Bucks could unload Larry's contract for a pick... and it was the Celtics unprotected pick... I'd be downright giddy. Though, they'd be fools to do that trade.
I wouldn't be giddy.
http://www.tankathon.com/
Celtics are holding down the last pick of the playoff teams. If they trade for Sanders, they are keeping Rondo and making a run at the playoffs. Getting the 15th pick in the draft with no lottery chance is not worth a quality defensive center.
That said, if that meant we kept pace with the bottom 3 teams it would be worth it. 3rd pick and 15th pick is better than the 6th and Sanders.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 27, 2013, 08:19:11 AM
I wouldn't be giddy.
http://www.tankathon.com/
Celtics are holding down the last pick of the playoff teams. If they trade for Sanders, they are keeping Rondo and making a run at the playoffs. Getting the 15th pick in the draft with no lottery chance is not worth a quality defensive center.
That said, if that meant we kept pace with the bottom 3 teams it would be worth it. 3rd pick and 15th pick is better than the 6th and Sanders.
I would agree... except for this year. The draft in June is absolutely stacked... and deep. I'd take as many first rounders as I could. Sanders is pretty damn good, but I'd rather have another pick. When Sanders comes back he cuts into Henson's development. As a result, Giannis' development as a starter would probably get pushed back as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE Larry Sanders fan, but I'm more of a fan of winning in the next couple of years... I worry that if we start playing with Larry soon, we will start winning more... and get less ping pong balls.
I'm in favor of movin' all athletes who have proven to be idiots.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 27, 2013, 09:18:56 AM
I'm in favor of movin' all athletes who have proven to be idiots.
+1
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 08:26:28 AM
I would agree... except for this year. The draft in June is absolutely stacked... and deep. I'd take as many first rounders as I could. Sanders is pretty damn good, but I'd rather have another pick. When Sanders comes back he cuts into Henson's development. As a result, Giannis' development as a starter would probably get pushed back as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE Larry Sanders fan, but I'm more of a fan of winning in the next couple of years... I worry that if we start playing with Larry soon, we will start winning more... and get less ping pong balls.
I don't think this year's draft is that deep. Last year's draft was probably deeper with some pretty good Euro's in the late teens. We had a lot of early entrants last year due to the talent at the top in this year's draft IMO.
Who do you think in 13-20 range will be better than Sanders?
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/
Also not sure how Sanders will hurt Giannis development? Gbo has been playing SG/SF a lot and if anything he would get more touches with Larry inside instead of Henson, who jacks up a ton a shots. I agree Sanders will hurt Henson's ability.
I thought this thread was gonna be about Aaron Rodgers ?-(
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 27, 2013, 11:06:00 AM
I don't think this year's draft is that deep. Last year's draft was probably deeper with some pretty good Euro's in the late teens. We had a lot of early entrants last year due to the talent at the top in this year's draft IMO.
Who do you think in 13-20 range will be better than Sanders?
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/
Also not sure how Sanders will hurt Giannis development? Gbo has been playing SG/SF a lot and if anything he would get more touches with Larry inside instead of Henson, who jacks up a ton a shots. I agree Sanders will hurt Henson's ability.
If Sanders comes back there will be more players and less minutes overall to go around. Adding Sanders bumps Henson's minutes, which probably bumps Ersan's minutes to the SF role. There are more rotations available with Sanders back, so Giannis getting less minutes is probably guaranteed.
The problem isn't who is better in the 13-20 range than Sanders, its that Larry is due $11 million dollars per year over the next four years. If the Bucks can pull someone at a fourth of the salary and become better in the back court they have to do it. Additionally, this coming years draft is probably the deepest since 2003... or 1996... maybe 1984 draft.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 27, 2013, 08:19:11 AM
I wouldn't be giddy.
http://www.tankathon.com/
Celtics are holding down the last pick of the playoff teams. If they trade for Sanders, they are keeping Rondo and making a run at the playoffs. Getting the 15th pick in the draft with no lottery chance is not worth a quality defensive center.
That said, if that meant we kept pace with the bottom 3 teams it would be worth it. 3rd pick and 15th pick is better than the 6th and Sanders.
I think I disagree - the 3rd pick should bring a big-time scorer, making Sanders' defense even more important. And Henson doesn't have the bulk to play too many minutes at the '5'. That being said, IF they could get a lottery pick for him, I'd jump at it in a second. With this year's draft, there will be guys picked in the 10 - 14 range that will end up being on some all-star teams.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 27, 2013, 09:18:56 AM
I'm in favor of movin' all athletes who have proven to be idiots.
Just athletes?
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 27, 2013, 11:06:00 AM
I don't think this year's draft is that deep. Last year's draft was probably deeper with some pretty good Euro's in the late teens. We had a lot of early entrants last year due to the talent at the top in this year's draft IMO.
Who do you think in 13-20 range will be better than Sanders?
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/
Completely disagree. There could be several guys in that range who are better. Willie Cauley Stein will probably be a better player overall and there are several non-centers who could be better (no way Embiid lasts past the top 5 picks).
Quote from: brandx on December 27, 2013, 01:49:02 PM
Just athletes?
No, but there isn't a market for your basic idiot.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 27, 2013, 02:00:13 PM
No, but there isn't a market for your basic idiot.
Well, television has no shortage.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 27, 2013, 02:00:13 PM
No, but there isn't a market for your basic idiot.
You must be pretty young then - not been in the job market too long.
Generally speaking, there are as many good people/idiots in any walk of life as among athletes.
I like you, bro.
Quote from: brandx on December 27, 2013, 02:09:48 PM
You must be pretty young then - not been in the job market too long.
Generally speaking, there are as many good people/idiots in any walk of life as among athletes.
4ever is older than the 'lanche, bro
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 02:19:30 PM
4ever is older than the 'lance, bro
Well, considering George Thompson was the reason I became a 'Warrior' fan, I guess I am too.
Quote from: brandx on December 27, 2013, 01:58:25 PM
Completely disagree. There could be several guys in that range who are better. Willie Cauley Stein will probably be a better player overall and there are several non-centers who could be better (no way Embiid lasts past the top 5 picks).
WCS is a top-10 pick in my mind. Celtics pick is 15+ if they make the playoffs.
Quote from: brandx on December 27, 2013, 01:48:08 PM
I think I disagree - the 3rd pick should bring a big-time scorer, making Sanders' defense even more important. And Henson doesn't have the bulk to play too many minutes at the '5'. That being said, IF they could get a lottery pick for him, I'd jump at it in a second. With this year's draft, there will be guys picked in the 10 - 14 range that will end up being on some all-star teams.
My point was I would rather trade Sanders and lose more games, thus getting the 3rd pick. I think Sanders is the Bucks best center and a Top 5 defensive player. That said, the tank is the most important asset. Keep the worst record and you are guaranteed Embiid, Parker, Wiggins, or Exum. After that it drops off.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 12:03:11 PM
If Sanders comes back there will be more players and less minutes overall to go around. Adding Sanders bumps Henson's minutes, which probably bumps Ersan's minutes to the SF role. There are more rotations available with Sanders back, so Giannis getting less minutes is probably guaranteed.
The problem isn't who is better in the 13-20 range than Sanders, its that Larry is due $11 million dollars per year over the next four years. If the Bucks can pull someone at a fourth of the salary and become better in the back court they have to do it. Additionally, this coming years draft is probably the deepest since 2003... or 1996... maybe 1984 draft.
When was the last time Ersan played SF? That said, I agree with that it could take away minutes with less GBo, Middleton, Butler 2-4 lineups.
Are you talking high-end talent or deep overall? I think the draft is really average after the top 10. Look at last year's draft. Picks 9-25 were pretty solid overall and plenty of talent available. Those were all solid rotation caliber players that just didn't have the high-end talent that people recognize. Last year's class was really deep for average players. After WCS, I don't see anyone who screams "I'm not a stud but would be a great asset to your team."
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 27, 2013, 03:19:32 PM
When was the last time Ersan played SF? That said, I agree with that it could take away minutes with less GBo, Middleton, Butler 2-4 lineups.
Are you talking high-end talent or deep overall? I think the draft is really average after the top 10. Look at last year's draft. Picks 9-25 were pretty solid overall and plenty of talent available. Those were all solid rotation caliber players that just didn't have the high-end talent that people recognize. Last year's class was really deep for average players. After WCS, I don't see anyone who screams "I'm not a stud but would be a great asset to your team."
It isn't really my evaluation, a lot of draft experts are saying its a very strong draft overall. Much stronger than last years by a lot.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 03:24:52 PM
It isn't really my evaluation, a lot of draft experts are saying its a very strong draft overall. Much stronger than last years by a lot.
Can you point me to anyone in particular? I would be curious what guys they think are strong NBA in the middle of the draft. I always thought this class was really top heavy but I'll admit college bball isn't my strength.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 27, 2013, 03:33:10 PM
Can you point me to anyone in particular? I would be curious what guys they think are strong NBA in the middle of the draft. I always thought this class was really top heavy but I'll admit college bball isn't my strength.
Ford: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/9559829/2014-nba-draft-incredible-depth-make-2014-best-ever
Adam Zagoria: http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/01/zagoria-why-the-2014-nba-draft-will-crush-the-2013-draft/
Two nationally recognized basketbal writers.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 27, 2013, 03:51:57 PM
Ford: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/9559829/2014-nba-draft-incredible-depth-make-2014-best-ever
Adam Zagoria: http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/06/01/zagoria-why-the-2014-nba-draft-will-crush-the-2013-draft/
Two nationally recognized basketbal writers.
I'm going to sign up tomorrow for espn and read the ford article, but where does it say anything about it being a string draft for the second article. He just says its a way better draft than 2013 because of the top players. I agree when you look back at the drafts you only care about those players. In this case however, we were talking about strength of mid round players because we are discussing the value of the 15th pick.