Okay, a very over the top statement - but I can't recall which color guy threw this out there about Burton - but he made the comparison of Burton to a young Charles Barkley.
When you look at that coast to coast finish yesterday...and dunk...that was vintage Charles Barkley from his young years. Burton is built similarly (slightly better than Chuck), but also has that rare explosiveness in a man of his size, as did Charles.
Long way to go for Deonte - but man - what a piece of clay to work with and develop. Think he's got a great attitude and passion for the game to go along with it - and should serve him and MU well going forward. Can't wait to see him as a Junior and Senior (assuming he's around for senior year).
Sir Deonte?
Obviously, this is way premature ... but if we have to compare him to somebody, there certainly is some resemblance to Barkley. If only the development can continue along those lines (minus the fat)!
If you're talking about yesterday, O'Neill compred him to Zach Randolph, which isn't bad. I don't need, Barkley. I'll sign up for Zach Randolph right now.
Many comparisons have been tossed out there. Barkley, short Zach Randolph. I see Roosevelt Chapman, Kerry Trotter, Mark Aguirre.... undersized 3-4 scorers.
Quote from: tower912 on December 15, 2013, 11:54:01 AM
Many comparisons have been tossed out there. Barkley, short Zach Randolph. I see Roosevelt Chapman, Kerry Trotter, Mark Aguirre.... undersized 3-4 scorers.
VERY short Zach Randolph!
Mark Aguirre was already a super stud as a frosh, but that would be a good one.
Quote from: MU82 on December 15, 2013, 12:00:45 PM
VERY short Zach Randolph!
Mark Aguirre was already a super stud as a frosh, but that would be a good one.
Aguirre was always rather pudgy whereas Deonte is chiseled. Don't see that comparison. Also, Aguirre was an excellent outside shooter. Deonte is really one of a kind, especially being so very left-handed.
Not sure on who he compares best with, but think he has very ceiling at the college level. By the time he is junior he has a chance to be a major force.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on December 15, 2013, 11:52:35 AM
If you're talking about yesterday, O'Neill compred him to Zach Randolph, which isn't bad. I don't need, Barkley. I'll sign up for Zach Randolph right now.
Yes, heard KO throw out the Zach Randolph comment - think the lefty component and big man with soft touch applies in comparison to Zach R. But there was a color guy, maybe even a studio guy earlier this year that threw out the Charles Barkley comparison - which I thought was good - albeit a HUGE comparison to live up to - but just see very few men as put together as Deonte, who are also that explosive - like Barkley was back in the day.
I'm not sure that Deonte gets to the league. At his size and with his skill set, he is eventually going to have to develop his right hand. If you keep attacking the rim against significantly larger defenders, you have to be able to score with either hand. (that's what SHE said)
Quote from: tower912 on December 15, 2013, 11:54:01 AM
Many comparisons have been tossed out there. Barkley, short Zach Randolph. I see Roosevelt Chapman, Kerry Trotter, Mark Aguirre.... undersized 3-4 scorers.
Aguirre was an All American and led his team to the Final Four as a freshman! I am sure he averaged more than 20 points per game. I still say he was the best college player I've ever seen.
I do like Burton, but come on!
PRN
MA was unreal college player from day one. The biggest recruit lost in MU history. He was a special player for many, many years.
I mean as an undersized stretch 4. Agguire could play inside or out, was very gifted offensively and very lazy defensively. He was 6'5, which let to me thinking of him. I acknowledge it is a reach. I am trying to recall college players who were undersized and yet were power forwards at heart.
Quote from: tower912 on December 15, 2013, 12:57:21 PM
I mean as an undersized stretch 4. Agguire could play inside or out, was very gifted offensively and very lazy defensively. He was 6'5, which let to me thinking of him. I acknowledge it is a reach. I am trying to recall college players who were undersized and yet were power forwards at heart.
Lazar Hayward
My favorite part about Burton is he is undersized for his game right now. Which means either he's going to be a monster here for 4 years because the NBA won't touch him with his size, or he develops an outstanding pull up and 3-point game and becomes a phenomenal all-around player most NBA coaches would salivate at.
Quote from: tower912 on December 15, 2013, 12:57:21 PM
I mean as an undersized stretch 4. Agguire could play inside or out, was very gifted offensively and very lazy defensively. He was 6'5, which let to me thinking of him. I acknowledge it is a reach. I am trying to recall college players who were undersized and yet were power forwards at heart.
Aguirre was a full 6'6". He had a couple inches on Deonte. I stood next to Aguirre in Salt Lake City back in the 1977 Final 4 and he was definitely taller ( in my fuzzy memory ;) ) than Deonte, whom I have walked by a couple times. Deonte is definitely undersized. He had a lot of trouble with the length of Kevon Looney last season in HS.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 15, 2013, 12:54:00 PM
Aguirre was an All American and led his team to the Final Four as a freshman! I am sure he averaged more than 20 points per game. I still say he was the best college player I've ever seen.
I do like Burton, but come on!
These guys are a 'little' over the top Aguirre averaged 24 point a game as a freshman. He was an all-American and a player of the year. Deonte is gonna be a very nice player - probably a 1st team all-BE in a couple years, but he is no Mark Aguirre.
And the Zac Randolph comparison - where does that come from? Zac makes Davante Gardner look like David Thompson. Deonte is a leaper.
1977 Final Four was held at the Omni in Atlanta. You may be thinkin' of '79, a'ina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 15, 2013, 01:45:06 PM
1977 Final Four was held at the Omni in Atlanta. You may be thinkin' of '79, a'ina?
Yep, I was at both...just a typo here...
Deonte is a talent. The more minutes he plays the more he will contribute. Aguire played a lot as a freshman because there wasn't a ton of talent on his team.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 15, 2013, 02:24:30 PM
Deonte is a talent. The more minutes he plays the more he will contribute. Aguire played a lot as a freshman because there wasn't a ton of talent on his team.
Didn't they go to the Final Four?
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 15, 2013, 02:24:30 PM
Deonte is a talent. The more minutes he plays the more he will contribute. Aguire played a lot as a freshman because there wasn't a ton of talent on his team.
played with Terry Cummings I think there was some decent talent on there.
The dunk is now on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eghnMMSZz1s
Quote from: warriorchick on December 15, 2013, 02:43:34 PM
The dunk is now on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eghnMMSZz1s
Also includes a JJJ dunk. Too bad they didn't include JJJ's bobbled dunk that he then turned into a nice reverse layup. O'Neill
loved that play.
Nicest thing about Deonte's dunk was the hesitation he used to get past his defender on the perimeter.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 15, 2013, 02:24:30 PM
Deonte is a talent. The more minutes he plays the more he will contribute. Aguire played a lot as a freshman because there wasn't a ton of talent on his team.
Are you out of your mind? He played because he was the third best player in the country, behind Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. There is zero comparison. It's like comparing JaJuan to Clyde Drexler...although Aguirre was better than Drexler in college. Look at it this way, as a freshman, Aguirre was much more dominant than Jabari Parker.
Btw, whoever mentioned Cummings, he was not on the 79 FF team. He came the next year.
Let's see. IIRC, that team had Clyde Bradshaw and Skip Dillard. It seems to me that Ray only played about 6 players and I can't recall who the bigs were.
Quote from: tower912 on December 15, 2013, 06:06:05 PM
Let's see. IIRC, that team had Clyde Bradshaw and Skip Dillard. It seems to me that Ray only played about 6 players and I can't recall who the bigs were.
Starting guards were Bradshaw and Gary "The Music Man" Garland. Aguirre and Curtis Watkins at forward, Jim Mitchem at center. Outstanding team, though not as good as the 79-80 or 80-81 teams who disappointed in the tournament.
Right. I'm thinking of the teams the next couple of years that flamed out in the tourney.
Quote from: tower912 on December 15, 2013, 06:06:05 PM
Let's see. IIRC, that team had Clyde Bradshaw and Skip Dillard. It seems to me that Ray only played about 6 players and I can't recall who the bigs were.
Ff team at DePaul:
Bradshaw
G. Garland
Jim Mitchum
Aguirre
Curtis Wadkins
They literally had no bench, but that is not why Aguirre played as suggested above. He was far and away their best player...and (at least) Garland and Bradshaw played in the NBA.
Quote from: tower912 on December 15, 2013, 06:06:05 PM
Let's see. IIRC, that team had Clyde Bradshaw and Skip Dillard. It seems to me that Ray only played about 6 players and I can't recall who the bigs were.
IIRC, Dillard & Cummings and Grubbs came the next year.
I think it was Aguirre, Bradshaw, and Garland and a bunch of stiffs.
The Bull. Enough said.
I thought the same thing a few weeks ago.
He is a player in the Barkley type Mode lets just say that.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 15, 2013, 12:54:00 PM
Aguirre was an All American and led his team to the Final Four as a freshman! I am sure he averaged more than 20 points per game. I still say he was the best college player I've ever seen.
I do like Burton, but come on!
If Aguirre is the best college player you've ever seen, you didn't watch that Final Four very closely ...
because he was only the third best player in it! In the Indiana State-DePaul national semifinal, Bird went for 35 on 16-for-19 shooting, and there wasn't even a 3-point line back then. Oh, he also had 16 rebounds and 9 assists. And he also played on a team that wouldn't even have had a .500 record without him. Aguirre had a solid game, too, with 19 points ... but please.
Actually, he maybe was only the fourth best player in that Final Four, because Kelser was amazing for Michigan State.
Round Mound of Pound Town
Quote from: MU82 on December 15, 2013, 11:42:07 PM
If Aguirre is the best college player you've ever seen, you didn't watch that Final Four very closely ... because he was only the third best player in it!
Does the fact that I already said this mean anything? Aguirre was a freshman in 1979. He went on to become the #1 pick in the draft after his junior year.
for folks of a certain age ... Deonte's game reminds me of Jerome Lane's game and body type. A physical & intimidating force (Deonte seems more nimble, however).
http://deadspin.com/5979082/jerome-lanes-backboard+smashing-dunk-was-25-years-ago-today (http://deadspin.com/5979082/jerome-lanes-backboard+smashing-dunk-was-25-years-ago-today)
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 16, 2013, 05:16:00 AM
Does the fact that I already said this mean anything? Aguirre was a freshman in 1979. He went on to become the #1 pick in the draft after his junior year.
I didn't mean to come on so strong but still ... unless you are talking about players you saw in person, it's hard to believe you rank Aguirre as No. 1. Because, again, you did see Bird and Magic and David Thompson and Bill Walton and Olajuwon, right?
I thought Aguirre was great, too, but given that he only played 2 years of college and was an All-American as a freshman, he wasn't exactly your run-of-the-mill frosh.
Quote from: NYWarrior on December 16, 2013, 08:37:19 AM
for folks of a certain age ... Deonte's game reminds me of Jerome Lane's game and body type. A physical & intimidating force (Deonte seems more nimble, however).
http://deadspin.com/5979082/jerome-lanes-backboard+smashing-dunk-was-25-years-ago-today (http://deadspin.com/5979082/jerome-lanes-backboard+smashing-dunk-was-25-years-ago-today)
I thought about him. He, too, was an undersized, muscular 4. If Deonte reached that level, it would bode well for him and the team.
I love what I've seen from Deonte. Explosive athleticism and quickness, perfect form, sweet touch on free throws and pull up jump shots from the elbow and baseline. A little too fearless on offense sometimes and he gets caught watching the ball a bit too much on D, but he's going to be really good. Props to JayBee for being the one person on the board who said he'd be our most productive freshman.
Quote from: MU82 on December 16, 2013, 08:47:13 AM
I didn't mean to come on so strong but still ... unless you are talking about players you saw in person, it's hard to believe you rank Aguirre as No. 1. Because, again, you did see Bird and Magic and David Thompson and Bill Walton and Olajuwon, right?
I thought Aguirre was great, too, but given that he only played 2 years of college and was an All-American as a freshman, he wasn't exactly your run-of-the-mill frosh.
He played three years of college.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 16, 2013, 01:32:14 PM
He played three years of college.
You are, of course, correct.
Hopefully my last mistake of 2013. Then I can start 2014 with a fresh slate and, if lucky, average fewer than one mess-up per week!
Quote from: MU82 on December 16, 2013, 01:39:33 PM
You are, of course, correct.
Hopefully my last mistake of 2013. Then I can start 2014 with a fresh slate and, if lucky, average fewer than one mess-up per week!
Hopefully that's the same attitude that our BBall team has
Quote from: MU82 on December 16, 2013, 08:47:13 AM
I didn't mean to come on so strong but still ... unless you are talking about players you saw in person, it's hard to believe you rank Aguirre as No. 1. Because, again, you did see Bird and Magic and David Thompson and Bill Walton and Olajuwon, right?
I thought Aguirre was great, too, but given that he only played 2 years of college and was an All-American as a freshman, he wasn't exactly your run-of-the-mill frosh.
Too young to remember Walton or Thompson, but IMO Aguirre was a better college player than Olajuwon, who didn't develop any offensive game until he got to the NBA. In fact, he was not even the best player on those Houston teams, Drexler was. In fact, I thought Ewing was a better collegiate player than Olajuwon.
Ewing was fantastic college player. He changed the game from the minute he got on the court. A lot of great players have mentioned on this thread and Burton is not close to any of them at this point. Will be interesting to see how things shake out size wise with him in the future. If he grows a few inches we will be awfully tough to stop.
Seriously Burton's pretty close to Hayward freshman year. Hayward was 16.3 mpg and 6.6 ppg 3.6 reb Burton is 12.4 mpg 5.4 ppg 2.1 reb. No reason to think with the same minutes he wouldn't equal Hayward's numbers and I would love to have a second coming of Lazar (especially when we have him at PF or SF not Center)
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 16, 2013, 01:58:54 PM
Too young to remember Walton or Thompson, but IMO Aguirre was a better college player than Olajuwon, who didn't develop any offensive game until he got to the NBA. In fact, he was not even the best player on those Houston teams, Drexler was. In fact, I thought Ewing was a better collegiate player than Olajuwon.
Well, Aguirre was the better offensive player. Olajuwon was far more of a factor on the defensive end. Call it a push...?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 16, 2013, 01:58:54 PM
Too young to remember Walton or Thompson, but IMO Aguirre was a better college player than Olajuwon, who didn't develop any offensive game until he got to the NBA. In fact, he was not even the best player on those Houston teams, Drexler was. In fact, I thought Ewing was a better collegiate player than Olajuwon.
Always an interesting debate ... Ewing and Akeem scored at just about the same clip per 40 mins but Olajuwon was a far better rebounder and shot blocker
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/hakeem-olajuwon-1.html (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/hakeem-olajuwon-1.html)
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/patrick-ewing-1.html (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/patrick-ewing-1.html)
....both guys were incredible collegiate players
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 16, 2013, 05:16:00 AM
Does the fact that I already said this mean anything? Aguirre was a freshman in 1979. He went on to become the #1 pick in the draft after his junior year.
You mean the 78-79 season? I remember it was Spring Break and we had about 12 guys crammed into/around a 1960's vintage Volvo in Ft Lauderdale that night listening to the Marquette-DePaul Sweet Sixteen Round game on whatever Chicago station broadcast DePaul. Maybe it was the Old Style we hauled down from Marquette Liquor or all the herb but we already chalked this up as a win and were looking ahead to finally playing UCLA.
I mean, it was DePaul for Crissakes. A team we routinely trashed. Aguirre single-handedly beat Marquette that night. And instead of going to the Elite 8 to face off against UCLA, finally, we went home and Aguirre took DePaul to the Final Four where they lost to Larry Bird.
We didn't realize it at the time but DePaul had eclipsed Marquette and the dynasty built by Al was now in steep decline. It would be decades before we recovered. The truth is that the bluest Blue Chips came to play for Al. Hank was a great tactician but he lacked Al's charisma. And when Ray Meyer beat out Hank for Aguirre the worm had turned.
Keefe
Once again spot on. Sad part was many knew of the decline before the university did.
I think the Barkley and Aguirre comparisons are a bit aggressive. Both of those players were legends.
The player that comes to mind when I see burton is PJ Tucker from his days at Texas.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/PJ-Tucker-NBA-Draft-Scouting-Report-2865/
Quote from: Tmreddevil on December 16, 2013, 05:58:32 PM
I think the Barkley and Aguirre comparisons are a bit aggressive. Both of those players were legends.
The player that comes to mind when I see burton is PJ Tucker from his days at Texas.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/PJ-Tucker-NBA-Draft-Scouting-Report-2865/
No doubt my initial post comparing Deonte to Charles is a huge reach - as Barkley goes down as one of the Top 50 NBA players of all time. But, just looking at Barkley and Burton physically - some real similarities. That rebound and coast to coast dunk was vintage Barkley in his prime. If Deonte can develop a back to the basket game, like Barkley did - he'll be a handful. Barkley was "undersized" but his unique combination of brute strength and explosiveness, negated the heigh limitation. I'm really excited to see Burton grow at MU - think he'll be an absolute star by his junior year, if not showing a lot of star quality already as a sophomore next year..
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 16, 2013, 01:58:54 PM
Too young to remember Walton or Thompson, but IMO Aguirre was a better college player than Olajuwon, who didn't develop any offensive game until he got to the NBA. In fact, he was not even the best player on those Houston teams, Drexler was. In fact, I thought Ewing was a better collegiate player than Olajuwon.
I watched a lot of Hakeem while at Houston. There is no doubt that Aguirre was a better player as a freshman than Aguirre. By the end of their soph seasons, it was pretty much of a push. Hakeem was unique and it was fascinating to watch him play. You could literally see his improvement from one game to the next and he had athletic skills that few big men have ever had. Ewing was a great defensive player and averaged 3 blocks a game in college. Hakeem had a couple years where he averaged over 5 blocks a game. Incredible athlete.
It's unfortunate you missed David Thompson. A unique player who was MJ's idol. Definitely one of the top 10 players of all time if not for the drug issues. Still the greatest leaper I've ever seen.
Quote from: brandx on December 16, 2013, 07:37:52 PM
I watched a lot of Hakeem while at Houston. There is no doubt that Aguirre was a better player as a freshman than Aguirre. By the end of their soph seasons, it was pretty much of a push. Hakeem was unique and it was fascinating to watch him play. You could literally see his improvement from one game to the next and he had athletic skills that few big men have ever had. Ewing was a great defensive player and averaged 3 blocks a game in college. Hakeem had a couple years where he averaged over 5 blocks a game. Incredible athlete.
It's unfortunate you missed David Thompson. A unique player who was MJ's idol. Definitely one of the top 10 players of all time if not for the drug issues. Still the greatest leaper I've ever seen.
????
Aguirre better than Hakeem as freshmen
Quote from: brandx on December 16, 2013, 07:37:52 PM
There is no doubt that Aguirre was a better player as a freshman than Aguirre.
(http://img.fanbase.com/media.fanbase.com/8/38072/6a0063facd9dc432e52c527562c9685a93f340ac.jpg?x=302&y=450&sig=f40658f475dd504ccc6aa7e034115015)
(http://hollywoodeastconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/aguirre3.jpg)
Quote from: brandx on December 16, 2013, 08:12:13 PM
Aguirre better than Hakeem as freshmen
FWIW, Olajuwon went by Akeem until 1991 when he "corrected" the spelling of his given name.
Quote from: keefe on December 16, 2013, 05:26:31 PM
You mean the 78-79 season? I remember it was Spring Break and we had about 12 guys crammed into/around a 1960's vintage Volvo in Ft Lauderdale that night listening to the Marquette-DePaul Sweet Sixteen Round game on whatever Chicago station broadcast DePaul. Maybe it was the Old Style we hauled down from Marquette Liquor or all the herb but we already chalked this up as a win and were looking ahead to finally playing UCLA.
I mean, it was DePaul for Crissakes. A team we routinely trashed. Aguirre single-handedly beat Marquette that night. And instead of going to the Elite 8 to face off against UCLA, finally, we went home and Aguirre took DePaul to the Final Four where they lost to Larry Bird.
We didn't realize it at the time but DePaul had eclipsed Marquette and the dynasty built by Al was now in steep decline. It would be decades before we recovered. The truth is that the bluest Blue Chips came to play for Al. Hank was a great tactician but he lacked Al's charisma. And when Ray Meyer beat out Hank for Aguirre the worm had turned.
I remember that game too well. It was my freshman year.
Marquette was up 8 with less than 10 minutes to go and Toone was ahead of the field for a dunk but Worthen overthrew him. If they connect, we go up 10. Marquette then takes the air out of the ball (no shot clock back then) and probably wins -- and there is no Aguirre-Bird matchup.
As keefe said, that pretty much ended MU's McGuire Era (yes, I know it techically ended 2 years earlier, but Hank/Majerus was an extension, Toone and O.Lee were Al's recruits, etc.) and ushered in a darn good decade for DePaul.