MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mufvr on December 14, 2013, 09:22:37 PM
-
After ten games, there is no further justification to continue starting and providing significant minutes to Jake Thomas. Besides being a sporadic three point shooter, he provides nothing to this team offensively. I realize that the freshmen still have a lot to learn, but anybody that has watched Burton and J3 play can't help but see the potential and the tremendous talent upgrade. It's time to relegate Jake to the bench and play the Mayo and the freshmen and let them develop. Without at least one guard that poses an offensive threat, we will be mediocre in conference play and will be NIT bound.
-
Jake played 15 minutes today. Only John played fewer minutes at guard today.
Oh, and his defensive positioning remains solid and his ball handling good. Today he was also 2-2 from the 3-pt line. Jake continues to earn Senior minutes and might be starting to find a role.
Of course the Freshmen have more talent. And they'll continue to emerge over time.
-
After ten games, there is no further justification to continue starting and providing significant minutes to Jake Thomas. Besides being a sporadic three point shooter, he provides nothing to this team offensively. I realize that the freshmen still have a lot to learn, but anybody that has watched Burton and J3 play can't help but see the potential and the tremendous talent upgrade. It's time to relegate Jake to the bench and play the Mayo and the freshmen and let them develop. Without at least one guard that poses an offensive threat, we will be mediocre in conference play and will be NIT bound.
Why don't you walk up to Buzz's office on Monday, telll him he is fired, and appoint yourself coach.
Lighten up Francis.
-
Why don't you walk up to Buzz's office on Monday, telll him he is fired, and appoint yourself coach.
Lighten up Francis.
Seize the open AD position, fire the coach, and usurp the coaching position as well? Now that is badass.
-
After ten games, there is no further justification to continue starting and providing significant minutes to Jake Thomas. Besides being a sporadic three point shooter, he provides nothing to this team offensively. I realize that the freshmen still have a lot to learn, but anybody that has watched Burton and J3 play can't help but see the potential and the tremendous talent upgrade. It's time to relegate Jake to the bench and play the Mayo and the freshmen and let them develop. Without at least one guard that poses an offensive threat, we will be mediocre in conference play and will be NIT bound.
seriously? I know IUPUI sucks bit i figured a 36 point win would calm the "NIT bound" morons for at least a day
-
Go total Terminator mode. Take over all of Mu's leadership positions available, they are ripe for the taking!
-
Why don't you walk up to Buzz's office on Monday, telll him he is fired, and appoint yourself coach.
Larry?? Is that you, Larry??
-
It's been mentioned before and I will say it again--- Let the freshmen get their feet wet.
If Burton, Johnson andDuane (when healthy) are all their hyped up to be then let's
play 'em. Juan should play more and shoot more. He's on a roll. Sometime's I think
Buzz over coaches. (I do like him) Best coach we had in years.
-
Best coach we had in years.
Since the spring of 1977
-
Jake should have a role off the bench. He should come in when we need a spark with set screen plays for him to hit some threes. But that is a role for later in the season once the freshman get better acclimated to the offense and get some playing time. In the meantime until that happens, he'll be in there more often as a good option. His defense is much improved from last year so he isn't a defensive liability and he is hitting threes. But that's just opinion. Let's see how it plays out in January and beyond.
-
Trying his best...but...that's what you get with a WALK ON.
-
Jake played fine today. He does the little things like blocking out and he is always that 3 point threat so teams don't pack it in the middle so much. I don't think he should play 30 min. (15 is perfect ) but starting is no big deal as far as I'm concerned.
-
Jake had 6 points 4 rebounds 2 assists and 2 steals today in 15 minutes and didn't miss a shot.
That is 16 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists and 5 steals per 40 minutes.
Quite a solid game for a role player.
He also, as others have noted, does all the little things right. People need to quit complaining about Jake.
-
Jake had 6 points 4 rebounds 2 assists and 2 steals today in 15 minutes and didn't miss a shot.
That is 16 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists and 5 steals per 40 minutes.
Quite a solid game for a role player.
He also, as others have noted, does all the little things right. People need to quit complaining about Jake.
Problem is HE ISNT A ROLE PLAYER
-
We should grab onto this stat line like manna from heaven and hope for it every game. My fear is going back to lines like we had against UW. Seriously, I don't care if Jake starts or comes down from the rafters. 2-2 from 3 with 4 rebounds and 2 steals in 15 minutes! What more do you want?
-
i hope jake reads this board just to prove the naysayers they are full of it. he's a hard working, tough nosed kid who has the ability to knock a few game changers down just to give the proverbial finger to all the monday morning shooting guards.
-
He also, as others have noted, does all the little things right.
Well, he did have a weak entry pass that was easily stolen and was called out for it by O'Neill. He also let his man beat him on the baseline.
That's nitpicking, I know, but it's also two examples in 15 minutes of play of two little things he did wrong.
I agree with those who think 15 minutes should be his ceiling. Playing on a very good team last year, he couldn't get off the bench during the conference season because there were too many better than him on the depth chart and his skills were too limited. We will be a better team this season if that again is the case.
-
We should grab onto this stat line like manna from heaven and hope for it every game. My fear is going back to lines like we had against UW. Seriously, I don't care if Jake starts or comes down from the rafters. 2-2 from 3 with 4 rebounds and 2 steals in 15 minutes! What more do you want?
What more do I want?
Him doing it against a team that isn't special ed.
-
Buzz over coaches. (I do like him) Best coach we had in years.
Wow. If you think Buzz over coaches Crean must have made you crazy.
-
Problem is HE ISNT A ROLE PLAYER
News flash. Role players often start. You don't have to be a star to be a starter. Look at the Miami Heat. Stars Lebron/Wade/Bosh. Other two are role players.
MU has Jamil/Gardner as the stars...after that largely role players. Burton is stepping up so that later on this season it will look like.... Jamil/Gardner/Burton as stars other two will be role players but still starting.
As for the weak entry pass. Yes, partially on him, but it was being thrown to Otule...you can't fire that one in. It was thrown to an undefended baseline if Otule comes to the ball instead of leaning away from the pass there is no problem...50/50 on both of them. Probably better to have not passed it into the post in that scenario.
As for doing it against a team that isn't IUPUI...He did it against Arizona St and no one cared..He did it against George Washington and no one cared. It seems that some are just going to fault him no matter what he actually does performance wise.
-
seriously? I know IUPUI sucks bit i figured a 36 point win would calm the "NIT bound" morons for at least a day
Morons? I think you need to prepare yourself brosef. New Mexico may be a must win. If they lose that's 1-5 vs top 100 teams. They'd have to play very well in conference to make it with that resume.
-
News flash. Role players often start. You don't have to be a star to be a starter. Look at the Miami Heat. Stars Lebron/Wade/Bosh. Other two are role players.
MU has Jamil/Gardner as the stars...after that largely role players. Burton is stepping up so that later on this season it will look like.... Jamil/Gardner/Burton as stars other two will be role players but still starting.
As for the weak entry pass. Yes, partially on him, but it was being thrown to Otule...you can't fire that one in. It was thrown to an undefended baseline if Otule comes to the ball instead of leaning away from the pass there is no problem...50/50 on both of them. Probably better to have not passed it into the post in that scenario.
As for doing it against a team that isn't IUPUI...He did it against Arizona St and no one cared..He did it against George Washington and no one cared. It seems that some are just going to fault him no matter what he actually does performance wise.
News flash. He's 3rd on the team in minutes and starts with other "role" players.
You can't call a starter a role player when he plays more than almost the entire team alongside other guys who can't score the basketball
Does he have a Lebron/Wade/Bosh?
What god awful comparison.
-
We should grab onto this stat line like manna from heaven and hope for it every game. My fear is going back to lines like we had against UW. Seriously, I don't care if Jake starts or comes down from the rafters. 2-2 from 3 with 4 rebounds and 2 steals in 15 minutes! What more do you want?
This is it. Exactly.
Until someone steps up to play more consistently, Jake will play.
-
Sultan
I will bet you a burger that JT's minutes are under 15/game come conference play. Mayo, JJJ and DuWilson will get his minutes.
-
Sultan
I will bet you a burger that JT's minutes are under 15/game come conference play. Mayo, JJJ and DuWilson will get his minutes.
I hope you are right. That means others are getting better.
-
Morons? I think you need to prepare yourself brosef. New Mexico may be a must win. If they lose that's 1-5 vs top 100 teams. They'd have to play very well in conference to make it with that resume.
Brosef - win or lose against New Mexico we will have to play very well in conference. The expectation is that we will.
-
Enough of the anti-jake threads
Besides the ugly lob entry pass, Jake played great yesterday. Great defense, saw him slide under and stop their 6"9 center from get an easy layup. Went 2/2 from 3 and spread the defense way out. Why do you think Davante was having a field day and Jamil was trying to dunk everything in sight?
The kid works hard and has great talent. Buzz knows how to run this team better than any of us
-
If Jake had great talent he wouldn't be a walk on.
Again, the guy is shooting 32% overall from the field...and 38 from 3.
Do you realize how bad his 2 pt shooting has to be to get that number?
The guy simply cannot do anything on offense except stand in one spot, pray his defender checks out a babe in the stands so he can shoot a wide open 3 and hope hes in the midst of his good streaky shooting.
-
...but, as opposed to Todd, he shows up every practice. As opposed to JaJuan, he understands all of the permutations of both the offense and defense. I agree that both Todd and JJJ have more raw talent. When they start producing in practice the right way every day, I predict one will take the starting job. Don't hate on Jake. Hate on Todd and JJJ for not seizing the opportunity.
-
...but, as opposed to Todd, he shows up every practice. As opposed to Juan, he understands all of the permutations of both the offense and defense. I agree that both Todd and JJJ have more raw talent. When they start producing in practice the right way every day, I predict one will take the starting job. Don't hate on Jake. Hate on Todd and JJJ for not seizing the opportunity.
+1
-
...but, as opposed to Todd, he shows up every practice. As opposed to JaJuan, he understands all of the permutations of both the offense and defense. I agree that both Todd and JJJ have more raw talent. When they start producing in practice the right way every day, I predict one will take the starting job. Don't hate on Jake. Hate on Todd and JJJ for not seizing the opportunity.
I couldn't care less if Todd is late to practice. I still wanna see him play over jake.
-
I couldn't care less if Todd is late to practice. I still wanna see him play over jake.
Good thing you aren't coaching the team then.
-
My point is I think character issues are overrated. Let the better player play
-
My point is I think character issues are overrated. Let the better player play
REAL good thing you aren't the coach then.
-
REAL good thing you aren't the coach then.
You're right about me not coaching but say Todd was as good as vander. You're telling me you wouldn't play him because jakes the better person
-
You're right about me not coaching but say Todd was as good as vander. You're telling me you wouldn't play him because jakes the better person
I wouldn't want anyone to get extra time despite being a chronic offender of team rules. That's a long term loss.
-
If Jake had great talent he wouldn't be a walk on.
Again, the guy is shooting 32% overall from the field...and 38 from 3.
Do you realize how bad his 2 pt shooting has to be to get that number?
The guy simply cannot do anything on offense except stand in one spot, pray his defender checks out a babe in the stands so he can shoot a wide open 3 and hope hes in the midst of his good streaky shooting.
Do you not realize what having a guy like Jake on the floor does for the rest of the team offensively? His defender has to be on him like white on...well...Jake. It creates space in the post. Take Jake out of the equation and who fills that role? The only other close to consistent 3P shooter we have is Jamil and he needs to play another part.
-
Enough of the anti-jake threads
Besides the ugly lob entry pass, Jake played great yesterday. Great defense, saw him slide under and stop their 6"9 center from get an easy layup. Went 2/2 from 3 and spread the defense way out. Why do you think Davante was having a field day and Jamil was trying to dunk everything in sight?
The kid works hard and has great talent. Buzz knows how to run this team better than any of us
You might have had me leaning toward your point of view until the "great talent" line.
Jake does not even have good talent, and one would be stretching the truth to say he has average high-major 2-guard talent.
Once conference play arrived last season, he couldn't get into games for a very good team because he didn't deserve to. He plays too many minutes this season for a (so far) better than average team. He has one skill and isn't doing it particularly well, especially against actual varsity competition.
Great talent? What the heck does Marcus Smart have then? Double-secret great talent?
-
Offensively Jake is a one trick pony, and if that shot isn't falling, he is pretty much useless. Defensively he is smart and in the right place, which is more than I can say for our freshmen...but the freshmen are learning.
-
Offensively Jake is a one trick pony, and if that shot isn't falling, he is pretty much useless. Defensively he is smart and in the right place, which is more than I can say for our freshmen...but the freshmen are learning.
This is very much how I feel. Though I still want to see more out of Mayo. As good as the freshmen are, I am hoping Todd can come through consistently. Maybe that's a vain hope. Burton is clearly a man-child and this stage is not too big for him, while JJJ is really starting to come around. There are plenty of options, I'm sure Buzz will figure out which is the best as the season (and the kids) develops.
-
If Jake had great talent he wouldn't be a walk on.
Again, the guy is shooting 32% overall from the field...and 38 from 3.
Do you realize how bad his 2 pt shooting has to be to get that number?
The guy simply cannot do anything on offense except stand in one spot, pray his defender checks out a babe in the stands so he can shoot a wide open 3 and hope hes in the midst of his good streaky shooting.
IIRC, Jake has been on scholarship his entire tenure at MU. I know for certain that he was on schollie last year and is this year, as well.
-
IIRC, Jake has been on scholarship his entire tenure at MU. I know for certain that he was on schollie last year and is this year, as well.
Only because of unforeseen departures.
-
Only because of unforeseen departures.
True, and he would not even be here this season but for Vander's early departure as he had announced he was leaving before Vander's decision.
-
This is it. Exactly.
Until someone steps up to play more consistently, Jake will play.
Wrong again. I don't understand this consistency argument. Consistently below average? And how can someone step up and get a chance to play more consistently when they never get the minutes that Jake does. You can't be more consistent from the bench. I'm sure Thomas is our best player in practice, but it's just not quite translating in games.
-
Offensively Jake is a one trick pony, and if that shot isn't falling, he is pretty much useless. Defensively he is smart and in the right place, which is more than I can say for our freshmen...but the freshmen are learning.
Alerting the media. I believe this might be the most positive Jake comment you've made. :)
I too look forward to when Jake can fill a specialty role, even if he remains a starter. I must say his floor leadership is valuable in the minutes he's out there. I suspect he too wishes God had given him a bit more natural ability.
-
Wrong again. I don't understand this consistency argument. Consistently below average? And how can someone step up and get a chance to play more consistently when they never get the minutes that Jake does. You can't be more consistent from the bench. I'm sure Thomas is our best player in practice, but it's just not quite translating in games.
Especially against the best opponents. in the 3 games against Top 20 teams, Jake has played 83 minutes resulting in 7 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists and 5 turnovers. The game at ASU was the outlier, though Jake did have a very unproductive first half prior to going off in the 2nd half after MU was far down.
-
Jake had 6 points 4 rebounds 2 assists and 2 steals today in 15 minutes and didn't miss a shot.
That is 16 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists and 5 steals per 40 minutes.
Quite a solid game for a role player.
He also, as others have noted, does all the little things right. People need to quit complaining about Jake.
This is hillarious. I don't think there needs to be hate threads made about the kid, but extrapolating a per 40 minute stat line from 15 minutes against IUPUI (#277 Kenpom) as any indication of if he helps/hurts Marquette has got me howlin'.
-
Wrong again. I don't understand this consistency argument. Consistently below average? And how can someone step up and get a chance to play more consistently when they never get the minutes that Jake does. You can't be more consistent from the bench. I'm sure Thomas is our best player in practice, but it's just not quite translating in games.
You do realize I typed this in response to the following post right?:
"We should grab onto this stat line like manna from heaven and hope for it every game. My fear is going back to lines like we had against UW. Seriously, I don't care if Jake starts or comes down from the rafters. 2-2 from 3 with 4 rebounds and 2 steals in 15 minutes! What more do you want?"
JJJ and Todd both played more minutes than Jake. So I am not sure what I can be wrong about, when you are the one with factual errors in your post.
-
Wow, some of you people are just idiotic.
-
You do realize I typed this in response to the following post right?:
"We should grab onto this stat line like manna from heaven and hope for it every game. My fear is going back to lines like we had against UW. Seriously, I don't care if Jake starts or comes down from the rafters. 2-2 from 3 with 4 rebounds and 2 steals in 15 minutes! What more do you want?"
JJJ and Todd both played more minutes than Jake. So I am not sure what I can be wrong about, when you are the one with factual errors in your post.
You are saying that it would be ideal for Jake to play only 15 minutes, but that he'll continue to play more minutes until someone shows more "consistency." And yes, Todd and JJJ played more minutes--finally--in the last game and lo and behold were better. So I'm not sure that Jake should be playing more minutes still since JJJ and Mayo are in the process of showing that they can be more consistent. I guess I just don't understand your assertion that Jake will continue to play more than 15 minutes based on the performance of Mayo and JJJ last game.
-
Jake sucks
-
I didn't say he would "play more minutes," I said he would "play."
I actually agree with you that JJJ and Todd playing better, and Jake playing less, is a good thing because those with more talent are getting it.
-
Jake sucks
Not as much as your second post. ::)
-
I know IUPUI sucks bit
I'm not at all saying IUPUI is good. If you llok at their schedule and who they have won and lost to, the 36 point win is shocking.
-
The roster is getting quite thin with these proposed changes. No more Jake. Can't play Derrick. Mayo should be kicked off the team. And two more guys (Steve Junior and Du Wilson) actually can't play.
Before long, Dylan Flood will be starting.
-
Bench Dylan Flood!
He plays like a walk-on!!!!
-
You might have had me leaning toward your point of view until the "great talent" line.
Jake does not even have good talent, and one would be stretching the truth to say he has average high-major 2-guard talent.
Once conference play arrived last season, he couldn't get into games for a very good team because he didn't deserve to. He plays too many minutes this season for a (so far) better than average team. He has one skill and isn't doing it particularly well, especially against actual varsity competition.
Great talent? What the heck does Marcus Smart have then? Double-secret great talent?
Yes Marcus Smart does have double secret great talent. Personally, I respect all of our players and think they are all talented. I guarantee you that Jake could school 99% of the people on this board. Yes, Jake is not an above average high major 2 guard...I don't even think he's an average one. But he's got enough talent to be in our rotation and would be the best player on other D-1 teams.
-
Jake sucks
Solid analysis right here. If you are going to stick around the board, try to come up with something a little stronger in the future
-
Yes Marcus Smart does have double secret great talent. Personally, I respect all of our players and think they are all talented. I guarantee you that Jake could school 99% of the people on this board. Yes, Jake is not an above average high major 2 guard...I don't even think he's an average one. But he's got enough talent to be in our rotation and would be the best player on other D-1 teams.
Oh boy.
Yes, he would school everybody on this board. That's great. We're not basketball players, though. I would school all of the Warriors players in Scrabble. Which proves ... what?
Please let me know the next time you see a team for which Jake would be its best player. I will make sure not to watch one second of that team's games. Again, this point proves ... what?
The one thing you said here that proves something is this: "I don't think he's even an average one." Well, I don't want below-average players starting and getting significant minutes for my team!
(And I'm not even one of the over-the-top posters who think it's a travesty if we don't contend for the Sweet 16 every season or want to fire Buzz if he doesn't recruit two 4-star bigs every year.)
-
Oh boy.
Yes, he would school everybody on this board. That's great. We're not basketball players, though. I would school all of the Warriors players in Scrabble. Which proves ... what?
Please let me know the next time you see a team for which Jake would be its best player. I will make sure not to watch one second of that team's games. Again, this point proves ... what?
The one thing you said here that proves something is this: "I don't think he's even an average one." Well, I don't want below-average players starting and getting significant minutes for my team!
(And I'm not even one of the over-the-top posters who think it's a travesty if we don't contend for the Sweet 16 every season or want to fire Buzz if he doesn't recruit two 4-star bigs every year.)
He's an above average defender and an above average three point shooter. As long as that's what he's doing, I have no problem with him on my team.
Jake was the best player on his old team before transferring to Marquette. He once dropped 40 points in a single game. Yes, that was low major ball but it still takes talent to be able to play at that level
-
Jake is in for his defense . It seems to me that our offense is not run to open up our starting guards for a shot.
-
Jake is in for his defense . It seems to me that our offense is not run to open up our starting guards for a shot.
History says otherwise. It's just not an offense that runs a lot of screens to get shooters open...but relies more on penetration.