Before the board gets filled with doom sayers and Crean bashers I just want to say that as disappointed as I am tonight my heart really goes out to Tom Crean and his staff. I can only imagine how they feel. By all indications they did everything right to get Iman. They were in on him early, worked the local angles just like they are supposed to, visited him at midnight the earliest they could to give themselves the best shot at holding out through the UNC sell job, got him to midnight madness, pulled out all the stops including a visit from D Wade. And now they lose a local kid to an also ran ACC school 1000 miles from home. And this comes on the heals of losing their primary big man target to Harvard. I would be willing to bet that it hasn't happened more than once or twice in the last 50 years that a major D1 school has lost a basketball or football recruit to Harvard.
This is why despite the big salary I would never want to be a college basketball coach. Your sucess or failure is in large part determined by the decisions of 18 year olds.
Tomorrow I will go back to my job and pretty much try to forget about this disappointment. The season will start soon and I'll just think about that. But for the guys that spent a bunch of time on this and I'm sure thought that these guys "would certainly chose Marquette" its got to be hard to move on.
I thought TC overdid it when he brought D Wade in at MM-----might have helped with a young guy (Williams) from 1,500 miles a way-----but with a seemingly very mature individual like Iman I thought it was overkill. I mean #3 is plastered all over the Al McGuire Center as it is and then to bring him in and have DW stand directly in front of Iman all night while coaching one of the teams and have him look over at Iman and speak to him with body language -----this I thought was trying to get Iman to buy into "hero worship". -----Iman may have felt the same. DW is going to be the "elephant in the room" in any MU recruiting relationship anyway -----so better to keep him as "background music"----a reference-----use him as a carrot in that he will visit the team when in town with the Heat-----the inference being, if you want to get to know DW come to MU.
This was a gamble by TC as some players may buy into the hero worship approach but others will see through it and be above that.
Just have to know your customer!
Quote from: Murffieus on October 18, 2007, 11:16:12 PM
I thought TC overdid it when he brought D Wade in at MM-----might have helped with a young guy (Williams) from 1,500 miles a way-----but with a seemingly very mature individual like Iman I thought it was overkill. I mean #3 is plastered all over the Al McGuire Center as it is and then to bring him in and have DW stand directly in front of Iman all night while coaching one of the teams and have him look over at Iman and speak to him with body language -----this I thought was trying to get Iman to buy into "hero worship". -----Iman may have felt the same. DW is going to be the "elephant in the room" in any MU recruiting relationship anyway -----so better to keep him as "background music"----a reference-----use him as a carrot in that he will visit the team when in town with the Heat-----the inference being, if you want to get to know DW come to MU.
This was a gamble by TC as some players may buy into the hero worship approach but others will see through it and be above that.
Just have to know your customer!
While I think you actually believe what you are saying (which I think you crazy), you should have gone on record this afternoon rather then after the fact.
It sounds like you are giving an "I told you so", instead of trying to provide something insightful.
Makes you seem like you have something against the current staff.
We did everything we could. We'll survive.
That may be the most crazy thing I've heard. That somehow, bringing in DWade, the sharpest stick in our box, was counter-productive or over-kill. From reports, Iman was thrilled to be near Wade.
mualum-----last year on numerous occasions i went round and round on these boards with SJS (Marquette 84) and others about the advisability of bringing in DW for personal appearances un front of recruits to supposedly aid in their recruitment. My position was then and is now that's it's overkill. It borders on selling "hero worship"----will work on some recruits, but backfire on others who see through that.
Don't get me wrong-----DW is a very valuable asset in recruiting, but keep him in the background-----don't force him on recruits ------everyone knows the story------show the recruits written testimonials from him regarding the program------keep him very visible on the walls of the Al Mcguire Center----even tell recruits that he visits the team everytime he comes in town with the Heat(the implication being that if you want to meet DW and get acquainted----sign with MU)-----as i say the Wade elephant is always in the room with recruits-----but don't showcase him personaly in front of top recruits-----IMO overkill!
BTW----if Iman was so "excited" and so important to see DW----why did he go to GT?
Quote from: NotAnAlum on October 18, 2007, 09:48:12 PM
And now they lose a local kid to an also ran ACC school 1000 miles from home.
What's with referring to Georgia Tech as an "also ran" ACC school? They've made the NCAA 3 of the last 4 years and have a couple recent Final Fours. Are you nuts?
I'm sure everybody will focus on Murff's comments - which I also disagree with -- but Georgia Tech has arguably had more recent success than MU. Some people need to get some perspective on Marquette!
Murf, I see the point you are making....actually, no I don't.
Even if it's overkill in your opinion, do you honestly think some 18 year old kid out there is thinking, "boy, I really like Marquette, but why did they have to bring D.Wade there to see me? I think I'd much rather go somewhere where they don't bring out famous recruits/graduates of the past."
Do you watch TV? Are you familiar with advertising? Everything we do and see today involves some form of hero worship. Have you read Iman's quotes? He wants to go to the NBA. Hell, he's planning on it. And he said that he felt he'd be able to get in and play quicker at GT than at MU. Then, throw in GT's prior point guards and you honestly don't think some kind of hero-worship played a role in him going there? You think that by bringing in D Wade, it OVER DID things? Really? I think you're nuts if you think that.
Wade is the highest profile NBA player in the world. If Crean calls him and asks him to show up on campus and he does, I wouldn't hold that against Crean or Wade. And...from a business perspective, Wade now has a clothing/uniform-line to promote. It's not just in the program's best interest to show him off, but this year, it was in Wade's as well.
Lastly, it's not like Wade comes out every year for this. NCAA rules also stipulate that Wade can't even talk to the recruits about coming to MU. So, in the end, I liked the idea of him having a surprise visit this year and it surely didn't hurt MU.
Knocking on G.Tech won't help matters, and - god help me - PRN is right. G.Tech is no slouch.
MU just lost a prized recruit to a traditionally great program (especially for PGs) that's in the ACC. How many times over the last 20 years has MU been in the running for such a player? Not a ton.
And that's why losing him hurts from a national perspective. It would have elevated MU some as far as being a national destination of top 25 recruits. It doesn't kill the program or seal the coffin on the team's 2008/2010 season by any means. The team will be just fine this year and next (big man or not). Crean's done enough to earn our trust that he'll plug the gaps with quality players (and probably one or two that aren't so quality...such is life in college basketball today).
Wade will only help us. I've said this story before, but I treated a pretty good basketball player last spring in the Chicago area. His favorite player was DWade. We are seeing the beginning of using him as a recruiting force. This player will be a junior next year, grew up in middle school when DWade was a rookie. This is when kids realize who they really like and idolize. You will see many players point to Dwyane as why they came to Marquette in future years, I guarantee it.
GT is a solid program which I would argue is at about the same level as MU. What I meant by my comment was that GT is not an elite basketball program on the level of Kentucky, Kansas or in the ACC Duke or UNC. Those programs you expect to be able to negate a distance edge, they do it all the time. This would be the same situation as MU getting a top 25 kid out Macon GA who GT had made their top priority. To an unbiased observer that would seem a little strange and this does to. If you think I'm nuts check out the UNC board. If they were going to lose they figured it had to be MU.
Quote from: Murffieus on October 19, 2007, 08:18:59 AM
BTW----if Iman was so "excited" and so important to see DW----why did he go to GT?
Shumpert wanted immediate PT.....that's why he went to GT. He most certainly didn't choose GT to punish Crean for putting him in close personal proximity to Dwyane Wade.
Niv----what is there to gain by hauling out DW unsolicited? How does that play in his eventual commitment? All recruits already know about his exploits within the program which is extremely impressive-----anything beyond that is forcing "hero worship" on recruits------as i say, this may work with younger recruits, but IMO can be counterproductive with mature recruits. They are more interested in how they fit with the program (immediate playing time, compatibility with team members, compatibility, etc------there is an old chinese proverb------"don't kill a flee with a cannon"!
He didn't go to GT to "punish anyone"-----he went there because rightfully or wrongly. he saw more opportunity. Using DW as a security blanket sure didn't help Iman see the opportunity here.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 19, 2007, 08:21:23 AM
Quote from: NotAnAlum on October 18, 2007, 09:48:12 PM
And now they lose a local kid to an also ran ACC school 1000 miles from home.
What's with referring to Georgia Tech as an "also ran" ACC school? They've made the NCAA 3 of the last 4 years and have a couple recent Final Fours. Are you nuts?
I'm sure everybody will focus on Murff's comments - which I also disagree with -- but Georgia Tech has arguably had more recent success than MU. Some people need to get some perspective on Marquette!
I have to say that I agree with you.
GT is no slouch, and I don't think "losing" out to them is a bad loss.
oh, also, MU has made the tourney 2 out of 3 years and has a recent final four... so we are no slouch either.
Dwayne Wade's presence at MM had no impact on the recruitment on Iman Shumpert, positive or negative. He is a mature kid and went to the place that he feels he fits best and will enjoy the most.
Also, IS was not the only recruit in attendance, we need to remember that.
Putting myself in Iman's position:
Here i am in the process of making one of the biggest decisions of my life (a career decision) and DW is flounted in front of me as if this has any bearing on my making a rational decision, which it doesn't. My thinking would be why did Coach Crean think it necessary to bring in DW? Was it to intimidate me into an emotional decision?
Obviously it was!
Quote from: Murffieus on October 19, 2007, 09:25:12 AM
Putting myself in Iman's position:
My thinking would be why did Coach Crean think it necessary to bring in DW? Was it to intimidate me into an emotional decision?
Obviously it was!
Seriously Murf,
I tend to just ignore alot of things I think are completely off the wall but "putting yourself in Iman's Position" and then somehow realizing that Crean was trying to intimidate Iman into an "emotional decision". Come on, how far are you going to dig into this thing? How crazy are your speculations going to get?
Wade intimidating him? he's not allowed (and didn't) to talk to recruits so was he using some sort of Jedi Mind trick? Do you see how ridiculous this sounds? Although I don't agree with your opinion I understand your point about overexposing Wade on bright young men during the recruiting process. With that being said, you really need to reevlauate your argument because the argument that You're in Iman's thoughts and fears is a wee bit overboard.
Of course DW was brought in to subtely intimidate Iman into an emotional decision. I watched DW closely-----he made himself very conspicuos by standing in front of Iman the whole night-----also communicating with him through body language-----and DW said all the right things in front of the assembled throng, but it was directed mainly to one person.
Murph, you have your opinion which is fine...
However, "Putting myself in Iman's position..." - Do you think you can relate to today's 18 year old student athletes? I am 25 years old and don't think I can relate that much.
Please don't pretend that they way you think applies to how Iman Shumpert thinks. These kids are how many years younger than you? They live a completely different life style with a different upbringing and a completely different set of values, heck even a different culture from the one you grew up in - there is a very good chance that if you were in Iman's position the outcome would be nowhere near what it was yesterday. Please don't make the mistake of applying your thoughts and feelings to other people.
We all understand that bringing DW out to MM would have put a bad or odd taste in your mouth. However, the coaches who are by far closer to the situation than we are, actually know the recruits' personalities (we can only go by brief interviews and news clippings) decided to give it a shot. Maybe it didn't pay dividends on IS, but maybe it did for one of the other recruits in attendance. We did get a solid commit as a direct result of MM, and for that I am happy.
After reading as much as I could about IS' decision, my best take on the whole scenario is that Iman was GTs all the way, and no matter how great of a job we did at MM, we weren't as good of a fit for him.
Just joined this site...I love the topics of conversation and could no longer sit on the outside looking in.
I have never been a huge fan of Crean in terms of an X's and O's coach but in terms of the way he rebuilt the program I could not be happier.
I think the idea of using DW was a great idea. Put yourself in this position, you are an 18 year old kid from Chicago making the biggest decision of your life and out walks DW. As an 18 year old kid I would look at this as my future. DW is Chicago kid who took a chance at MU and MU took a chance with him. TC developed him into a superstar athlete who is now the face of the NBA. Iman said he wants to go to the NBA and TC has shown he is a coach that will get you to the NBA, point and case DW. The bottom line is Iman went to GT because of playing time and the need for guards. If he is as good as everyone says he is that is one thing but to think a true freshmen is going to come in and take time away from DJ(who will still be around next year), Cubillian, Aker, is crazy. I would have loved to see Iman in the blue and gold but he made a decision that was best for himself and you have to respect that.
I looking forward to Wade's first dunk over Iman in the NBA!! ;D
Murff, you're way off base.
First off, Iman wasn't making one of the biggest decisions of his life. Ben-Eze was when he chose Harvard because he will spend four years getting a terrific education and forgoing his game (to a certain extent) before trying the NBA. Iman has different goals. Good luck to him.
To insinuate DW had anything to do with this is wrong.
I thought we were a great fit for Iman. I mean he's a guard and TC plays a guard orientated offense and has had very good success in developing perimeter players within a program in one of the best conferences in the nation and a very competitive team within that conference. Not only that, but right up the road only 90 miles.
My point is that we don't need DW as a "security blanket"-----keep him in the background as the "elephant" in the room-----being laid back about DW carries a mystique that sends a very discrete message. If coaches could turn every good prospect into a DW, fine bring him out in the forefront----but the reality is that there is only one DW and won't be another around here for a long time.
BTW----from everything i read, Iman was not the type that could be intimidated into an emotional decision!
Quote from: Murffieus on October 19, 2007, 09:41:56 AM
Of course DW was brought in to subtely intimidate Iman into an emotional decision. I watched DW closely-----he made himself very conspicuos by standing in front of Iman the whole night-----also communicating with him through body language-----and DW said all the right things in front of the assembled throng, but it was directed mainly to one person.
Dude,
You've lost it.
You could tell from Dwade's body language that he was trying to pressure Iman into a decision?
C'mon. Even you can't believe what you are writing.
mualum-----apparently you didn't see what I saw at MM (DW's body language). Clearly DW was brought in an attempt to pursuade Iman into an emotional decision. Perhaps TC saw the Iman thing sliping way----in that case i can understand bringing in DW as an everything to win and nothing to lose proposition. But barring that, it was a mistake as Iman is beyond hero worship!
We have to recruit on merit of the program and everyone already knows about DW's contribution to it----like the Chinese say----don't go to kill a flee with a cannon----(overkill)!
Quote from: Murffieus on October 19, 2007, 11:52:02 AM
mualum-----apparently you didn't see what I saw at MM (DW's body language). Clearly DW was brought in an attempt to pursuade Iman into an emotional decision. Perhaps TC saw the Iman thing sliping way----in that case i can understand bringing in DW as an everything to win and nothing to lose proposition. But barring that, it was a mistake as Iman is beyond hero worship!
We have to recruit on merit of the program and everyone already knows about DW's contribution to it----like the Chinese say----don't go to kill a flee with a cannon----(overkill)!
I understand your ancient Chinese theory, I just don't think bringing in DW3 is a big scary cannon that you say it is.
Also, if you can read body language that well, see if you can figure out what my middle finger is telling you right now :o
ok ok ... kidding kidding. I think your premise is wacky, and I think that you are saying it after the fact is bush league... but we can agree to disagree.
your interpretation of bringing in a "cannon to kill a flee" is mistaken----it references overkill!
The fact that every recruit already knows about DW's exploits within the program and that he credits TC with a lot of his success-----anything on top of that (such as a MM appearance with mainly one objective in mind) can seem like pressure on a recruit (designed to subtely pressure him into an emotional decision), which can easily be resented.
If only Dwyane Wade had been able to perfect the Jedi Mind Trick in time for MM...
Quote from: Murffieus on October 19, 2007, 12:04:07 PM
your interpretation of bringing in a "cannon to kill a flee" is mistaken----it references overkill!
The fact that every recruit already knows about DW's exploits within the program and that he credits TC with a lot of his success-----anything on top of that (such as a MM appearance with mainly one objective in mind) can seem like pressure on a recruit (designed to subtely pressure him into an emotional decision), which can easily be resented.
Classic example of over-analysis.
Seriously Murph, you are off your rocker
I heard it was more like a Vulcan mind meld.
If only Coach Jack Nagle didn't bring in 1952 leading scorer and rebounder Russ Wittberger to make a good impression on a young Johnny Glaser, we would have Murf making cockamine observations about DWade's posture vis a vis Iman SHumpert;s recruiting. ::)
Murff, it's not like MU busts out Wade from a closet and springs him on every recruit at MMadness. It's the first time he's been there that I can remember.
And as for your theory - let's say you work for an ad agency that has the Miller Brewing account. You've won tons of awards for the ads you've done for them. Now you go to try and win new business. Do you not talk about what you did for Miller because you don't want to be seen as trying to forcefully persuade someone into doing business with you? Do you not have a letter-of-reference on hand from the President of Miller on hand because you don't want to seem overwhelming or persuading to this new prospective client?
The answer is...HELL NO!! If it's business that you really want, you go in with all guns blazing. Sometimes you break out the letter of recommendation from Miller, sometimes you don't. But you always mention it. You owe it to your business not too.
Niv----of course i talk about what i did for others when going after new business-----and TC would be correct in talking about what he's done for DW and others-----but bringing in DW and try subtely to intimidate Iman when Iman was already aware of the Crean/DW connection and all its aspects was overkill designed to overwhelm Iman emotionally-----why else was DW here?
Any success I ever had in sales was the "soft sale" -(the indirect approach worked best for me). A good sales person doesn't belabor the obvious-----but overwhelmes his prospect with solid and /sound product knowledge !
Ziggy-----you were so overwhelmed with emotion and convinced that the DW appearance was the panacea that would make Iman commit to MU after MM------ that you took me to task earlier in the week for being in your words wrong last season when I said bringing in DW to close a deal would backfire-----what say you now?
***why else was DW here?
Did you realize that it was MARQUETTE MADNESS?
Wade was there first and foremost to support Marquette, provide excitement for the fans, and motivate the current players. He would have been there even if Shumpert had cancelled the visit and made his verbal a week before.
Wade was there primarily to motivate the players and build fan enthusiasm for the first MU team given a reasonable chance at getting back to the final four.
If Wade were there simply to impress recruits, he could have stopped by during the campus visits that took place prior to MM. But he didn't.
As for your comment that Shumpert's choice proves that bringing wade woul "backfire"--you have absolutely no knowledge of that, period. For all you know, he had made his mind up that MU wasn't for him on Friday or early on Saturday, but seeing how the fans loved Wade at MM put us back into consideration. If that's the case, it hardly "backfired" and almost made the day.
Marquette84, you're just delusional. Wade flew up from Florida just because he loves Marquette? Um, no. Wade was there to help Crean with Shumpert. Period. No doubt about it. End of discussion. This was a HUGE recruit for MU and Crean.
I don't agree with Murff's stance, but if you don't think Crean brought in his heavy hitter to close this deal then there's just no hope for you.
Of course, you're the same person who suggested Crean become a recruit's legal guardian to save a scholarship so I shouldn't be surprised.
Murf,
This is my first post opposing you - you are crazy and mr. negative.
Let's say TC did not bring DW in, and IM went to GT, you'd say TC did not work hard enough to bring DW so that IM can meet or worship his hero.
You just cherry pick whatever to discredit TC and his effort.
Would you just have some class and let it go, or did they hurt you that bad?
Mike
Deane----I would never say bring in DW to close a deal----first of all it's not his job-----secondly, any dope should be able to see what went on here------DW was brought up to intimidate Iman into an emotional decision----was TC's security blanket-----like I've said time and time again over the last year----more likely to backfire than not. Promoting "hero worship" is not sound recruiting!
BTW----I think coach crean has done a lot of good things for MU and I admire a lot of what he does-----but he's doing something wrong on recruiting----we're missing on a lot of people. He's very intense and this may be turning people off!
The soft sell works----Al proved that!
Quote from: Murffieus on October 19, 2007, 03:57:59 PM
BTW----I think coach crean has done a lot of good things for MU and I admire a lot of what he does-----but he's doing something wrong on recruiting----we're missing on a lot of people. He's very intense and this may be turning people off!
He's overbearing. Of course it's turning kids off. The little poll I took earlier today is proof of that. More than 60 percent of people on a Marquette message board voted -- all things being equal -- that they'd rather play for Williams or Hewitt. That number was much higher for the first hour the poll was up.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, he's just not that likable. Kids have to like their coaches. Absent that, they need an assistant they can turn to. We know the problems we've had on that front!
I have to stand more in Murf's corner on this that others.
These kids are great in their own right. They are studs who get teachers to look the other way, girls to look their way and in general have the world at their fingertips. I'm not so sure they want to be hearing Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade Dwyane Wade every time they talk to someone at MU. Sure they want to be the next Dwyane Wade but you can't walk thru the Al (and I've been in every nook & cranny) without seeing a pic of DW. It's a little overbearing. There is something to be said about the soft sell and more importantly focusing on the future, the future that includes the recruit not the past which includes storesi of Dwyane Wade over UK etc.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 19, 2007, 04:07:22 PM
He's overbearing. Of course it's turning kids off. The little poll I took earlier today is proof of that.
Yep, that proves it! ::)
---
Due to Wade's injury rehab, he wasn't going to play in the Heat's preseason game and so his schedule allowed for him to be present for Marquette Madness. Considering the schedule of a NBA player, this might be the only MM Wade could attend until he retires.
Of course he wanted to help with Shumpert's recruitment. But, it's not a stretch to also consider that - because his college's team was kicking off their most anticipated season in years - Wade wanted to be there to support them and someone he is obviously close to - Crean. And, it's not a stretch to consider that due to the fact that MU is soon to introduce HIS line of clothing/shoes to the basketball world Wade wanted to be there. All things considered, it was a great time for him to visit. He had the time and the connection to a private jet and so he returned.
Why do we read these boards, return to Milwaukee for games and wear MU logos on our clothes/hats? Because we are proud of MU and want only the best for MU. I would guess DWade feels the same way.
As far as we know, Wade has not been previously included in other recruiting visits of highly ranked players. We've read his many quotes about his fondness for MU and Crean. Wade's brand is being marketed by one school - MU. Had this not been the case, the concern "over selling or forcing Wade in front of Shumpert" may have more validity.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 19, 2007, 03:21:44 PM
Marquette84, you're just delusional. Wade flew up from Florida just because he loves Marquette? Um, no. Wade was there to help Crean with Shumpert. Period. No doubt about it. End of discussion. This was a HUGE recruit for MU and Crean.
I don't agree with Murff's stance, but if you don't think Crean brought in his heavy hitter to close this deal then there's just no hope for you.
No, you're delusional.
Tell me this--what person attends their reunion to help recruit new students? And do they come every year--or, perhaps they come back on, say, the FIFTH anniversary?
And why do any alumni attend Marquette Madness? Is is that farfetched to think that a guy who actually PLAYED for the team might care as much as a run-of-the-mill spectator?
Nah--Wade had no interest in MU. None. Zip.
He only wore the uni for two years and attended the school for three. That means he only care enought to do the dirty work when a former coach tells him to.
Frankly, you're insulting Wade by suggesting that he doesn't care about MU, doesn't care about the team, and doesn't care about MU fans. The airfare to him out of his pocket probably means less to him than a one-way bus fare is to you.
Tell me this--if Crean is such an unlikable person, why would Wade waste his time to fly up to MU for no other reason than to help Crean do his job?
But then, what can we expect from a guy like you who can't find enough bad things about Crean that he has to find things other coaches do and ask us to pretend it was Crean.
Yeah, Crean is hated. That's why we're rated 13th in the preseason polls. No one wants to play for him. He lost Iman because the kid wanted to play 38 minutes a game at point guard and become the next Penny Hardaway after a year or two in college. That's all. If Iman didn't like Crean, he never would have strung him along.
But ----Crean isn't hated----one of the things he does very well at MU is muster up a very good relationship ith the media----when you meet him the first time he's a very likeable person-----however his demons in this biz IMO is his intensity----has to learn to lower the decibles on that quite a bit, IMO!
Murff, I was reponding to PRN's claim that Crean isn't liked. Again, he's won 20 Big East games in the past two years and will probably go 12-6 or 13-5 this season. If he were fired tomorrow there would be 300 Division I colleges lining up for his services.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 19, 2007, 03:21:44 PM
Marquette84, you're just delusional. Wade flew up from Florida just because he loves Marquette? Um, no. Wade was there to help Crean with Shumpert. Period. No doubt about it. End of discussion. This was a HUGE recruit for MU and Crean.
I don't agree with Murff's stance, but if you don't think Crean brought in his heavy hitter to close this deal then there's just no hope for you.
Of course, you're the same person who suggested Crean become a recruit's legal guardian to save a scholarship so I shouldn't be surprised.
Hmmm.
Why would Dwyane Wade fly up from Florida for the sake of helping Marquette land a single recruit?
Could it be because he loves Marquette? Maybe?
Clearly it isn't because he loves Tom Crean. As you've proven beyond a doubt, nobody likes the guy and his overbearing personality. Especially basketball players. Lord knows he's the first and only successful basketball coach with an "overbearing" personality. ::)
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 19, 2007, 04:07:22 PM
Quote from: Murffieus on October 19, 2007, 03:57:59 PM
BTW----I think coach crean has done a lot of good things for MU and I admire a lot of what he does-----but he's doing something wrong on recruiting----we're missing on a lot of people. He's very intense and this may be turning people off!
He's overbearing. Of course it's turning kids off. The little poll I took earlier today is proof of that. More than 60 percent of people on a Marquette message board voted -- all things being equal -- that they'd rather play for Williams or Hewitt. That number was much higher for the first hour the poll was up.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, he's just not that likable. Kids have to like their coaches. Absent that, they need an assistant they can turn to. We know the problems we've had on that front!
PRN have you ever spoken to Diener, Wade or Novak about Crean? I suggest you do next time you get a chance.
Murff, Iman wasn't the only recruit there and if I'm not mistaken I believe Erik Williams commited shortly after. Now I'm not saying this is because DW3 was there but I am POSITIVE that it didn't hurt.
If anything, bringing Wade in showed Iman how important of a recruit he was that Crean was willing to pull out all the stops.
Well it didn't impress Swopshire as he commited to Louisville. Williams is a youngster and made an emotional decision (had to be emotional as he hasn't seen other schools and says he had no prior idea that he would end up commiting on this trip)-----so bringing in DW may have been the catylist for Erik's commitment. However mature kids like Iman & Swopshire didn't seem too impressed with the DW visit as it really didn't
have anything to do as to why they should commit to MU as they were already well aware of the MU/DW connection. They evidently saw it for what is was----showmanship!
Quote from: Murffieus on October 21, 2007, 09:17:53 AM
Well it didn't impress Swopshire as he commited to Louisville. Williams is a youngster and made an emotional decision (had to be emotional as he hasn't seen other schools and says he had no prior idea that he would end up commiting on this trip)-----so bringing in DW may have been the catylist for Erik's commitment.
Erik Williams already had offers from Alabama, Baylor, and Texas A&M. He also had taken unofficial visits to all of those schools.
Quote from: Murffieus on October 21, 2007, 09:17:53 AM
Well it didn't impress Swopshire as he commited to Louisville. Williams is a youngster and made an emotional decision (had to be emotional as he hasn't seen other schools and says he had no prior idea that he would end up commiting on this trip)-----so bringing in DW may have been the catylist for Erik's commitment. However mature kids like Iman & Swopshire didn't seem too impressed with the DW visit as it really didn't
have anything to do as to why they should commit to MU as they were already well aware of the MU/DW connection. They evidently saw it for what is was----showmanship!
Seriously, your opinions and posts are starting to become damaging and (more) ridiculous.
You don't personally know these players or their families, yet you know their state of mind and maturity level?
Now you even go as far as to imply that one of MU's latest commitments (Williams) must be immature because he committed to MU after meeting DW3.
YOU DON'T KNOW THESE KIDS, SO QUIT CLAIMING THAT YOU KNOW THEIR STATE OF MIND OR THE RATIONALE FOR THEIR DECISIONS. And don't claim something like "It was obvious to me at midnight madness based upon body language" or something like that. It's crap.
It is not fair to these kids or their families to have you spouting off like you know something about them, or ANYTHING about their maturity level or decision making process.
Moderators, I respect your approach to letting most posts stand because this board should have a variety of opinions. But, when it comes to recruits and commitments, I might suggest that you tighten the policy a little bit. I hate for a kid or his family to be subjected to this level of personal scrutiny when all they did was commit or not commit to MU to play basketball.
When shumpert visited unc there were 5 nba players that happened to be there. I'm willing to bet there were a couple at gt as well. Its part of the game murf all three schools did it
But Spartan------where were the theatrics at UNC and GT----from reports I read the guys Iman talked to at
UNC and GT were private conversations and allowable because they were students going after their degrees even though they were in the NBA. I mean DW comes out there like a rock star----resembled showbiz!
Al used to use his CURRENT players to sell the program------that's what recruits are interested in (the present) not the past. As I say, TC may have felt Iman slipping away prior to the visit and felt that he had everything to gain and nothing to lose with the "rock star" approach------in which case I can understand, but I stll think he should have held DW's presence a lot more low key!
Quotebut I stll think he should have held DW's presence a lot more low key!
I just don't understand how you keep DW's presence "low-key." Sure, you can argue that he shouldn't have been there, and I won't disagree, but you said you understood what TC was doing when he might've sensed IS "slipping."
I don't know if you were at Madness, but the whole time students kept whispering to each other, "I know Wade's coming!" and "I'll bet you $10 that D-Wade is coming!" and so on. Regardless of how the recruits took it, the students went completely nuts when he walked in and would've done the same if he had quietly found a seat in the crowd. As a student, it was a great time
because of Wade. The last couple of MMs have been notably boring in comparison to this one, and the athletics office KNEW that. What's one way to make it more enjoyable and possibly sway a recruit or two? Why not bring in somebody that gets the student body excited? (That, and you have your over-caffeinated coach nearly kill himself on an ATV, but that's irrelevant here)
All in all, I disagree that Wade had any negative impact on Shumpert's decision.
"where were the theatrics at UNC and GT"
Murf:
You have to be a little smarter than what your posts show. C'mon, Shumpert attended our "Midnight Madness". Midnight Madness always has this approach. It's not for just the recruits, it's for the university.(students, fans, ect...) When Shumpert went to the other universities they attended the activities they had there on those weekends.
Now, you have stated over and over that you are a fan of the program, but you just try to give a different perspective on the Marquette program. That is complete and utter bullsh#t....and you know it! Just in the last couple of days you have claimed that Crean organized all of this (Midnight Madness) for Shumpert, and you have posted that Coach Crean also got the verbal from Fulce "on the rebound". I can honestly say to you and the entire board that you know NOTHING about what is going on in the current program! You are totally in the dark, even though you try to act as though you have some kind of insight. You actually have zero knowledge about the coaches, players, practices, recruits, and so on. Even though you may have been a "good" player in your day, you are not very well liked by most who are close to this program currently. You continue to shoot your mouth off, and even though you have a FEW people that stick up for you on occasion, most don't care for what you are saying about your alma mater.
To the few that continue to praise Murf for what he did in his career, what the he!! does that have to do with his idiotic comments on this board? Who cares if he once did good for Marquette, if now all he can do is criticize?
As for you always mentioning what Al did, it was a different time and era. Just like when you went to school. What did they do for recruits on your visits? Probably very little, if anything. Unlike you, AL LIKED CREAN A LOT AND FELT HE WAS THE MAN WHO COULD TAKE MARQUETTE TO ANOTHER LEVEL. HE WAS 100% SUPPORTIVE OF COACH CREAN.
Now, let me make a little comparison......I'm sure we all remember what Brutus did to Caesar. Well, that's what I feel John Glaser has done to Marquette. "Et tu Johnny? Why?
Season ticket holder?
Donation to the Al McGuire Center?
Supporter of Tom Crean?
Feel snubbed by the current staff? :-\
GO MU!
Hoops-----I don't mind you being critical, but please get your facts straight. I never said that TC "organized ALL of MM to get shumpert"-----what I did say is that he brought DW up here to get Shumpert and I believe the theatrics involving DW were in support of that".
You're Brutus/Ceasar argument is ridiculous------airing things out is healthy -----sweeping things under the rug is decedent.
BTW----if my comments are so "idiotic" why do you consistently find the need to reply to them?
"if my comments are so "idiotic" why do you consistently find the need to reply to them?"
Your idea of what the word "consistently" means must be different than most people on this planet. You have posted (on the two boards) approximately 12,150 times. Many find that number absurd, and one who should actually get a life. I have posted approximately 220 times. If each one of my posts were a response to you...which most are not.....that would be one response for every 55 posts. (less than 2%) In reality, I'm sure I have only responded to less than 1% of your "idiotic" posts.
I do respond at times, because some people actually believe the $h8t your shoveling. I know it is NOT reality. :o
GO MU!
Well hoops, one percent of 12,150 posts is 121 replies by you (a full 50% of your posts) to what you call my "idiotic posts". It seems to me anyone who makes that many replies to a single persons posts feels that that poster presented some very solid thought indeed-----but because that thought didn't concur with your agenda, you had to respond to "douse the fire". If the content of my posts was "idiotic" you'd let it hang out there as such without consistent rebuttal.
"one percent of 12,150 posts is 121" Good math Murf, but I said, "less than one percent". Get your facts straight. Oh, I forgot, you don't use facts.
"It seems to me anyone who makes that many replies to a single persons posts feels that that poster presented some very solid thought-----but because that thought didn't concur with your agenda, you had to respond to "douse the fire"."
Speaking of agendas, when someone that has actually played at Marquette and coached high school basketball posts things that are half truths, or not true at all about their former alma mater, I feel it is important to respond. Some may actually believe the garbage you are shoveling. Instead of consistently patting yourself on the back, someone should be giving you a swift kick in the @$$!
By the way, thanks for not answering any of the questions again. Those that really follow this program already know the answers. ;D
GO MU!
Hoops----this is your 3rd straight reply to what you have referred to as "idiotic" posts. You're obsessed with "idiotic" commentary!
Boy, I'm really getting the better of you this time. Can you say "four".
Poor Murf! ;D
move along, boys. should have locked this long time ago to deprive the Murf obsessed of a platform.