I am not going to make another comment about Derrick Wilson for the rest of 2013.
I'm even going to resist reading any threads with Derrick or PG in the title, either.
I don't want to tell others what to do, but I'm pretty sure we've covered it all. In my own case, it does me no good to get so negative about a college kid who is trying his hardest.
So these are my final words about Derrick at least through 11:59:59 Dec. 31, 2013.
We'll see how I feel when the new year dawns ... after the Creighton game.
Now, as for Jake ...
Leaving yourself a wide chasm there though, 2.5 months after Dec. 31 to do some heavy damage.
Thank you. I have recently found myself even missing the Crean threads.
Count me in and will add Thomas to mix as well. I want Duane and JJJ to be our topics of discussion next few months.
I don't like to tell people that they can't post about a legitimate MU Hoops topic, but reading the threads, it certainly does feel like a recurring nightmare with 4-5 individuals involved. Based on that, I'd hope some more posters could give the topic a rest for a bit.
Okay....I'll sign the moratorium and give it a rest out of respect to the moderators of the board, and to Derrick - who from all I know is a very good kid, and is doing his best - which is all we can ask ultimately.
So, sorry for all of the negative remarks I've made regarding Derrick - it isn't usually in my character to be hyper critical of anyone or anything in our program.
Sorry Derrick if you read this.
I gotta agree with Rocky......lets leave it alone for awhile. He is a good kid and coach has him in...period.
Great idea.
If you ever meet him, you will realize that he is a good as they come.
Give it time fellas, when the season is over, we will be very glad we have him on our team.
I've never been a Derrick basher, but never been a defender, either. He's about as good as Junior was in his junior year. He's our man, and more importantly, he's our coaches' man. I'll go til end of season without a bad word... looking for other to match this so we clean up some of the crap on these threads.
This all sounds good til the frustration builds from the next bad game, but I'll try.
Bashing Derrick is totally wrong, Derrick is a good kid from a good family. Bashing the coach who recruited him and the scout who thought he could play Division I basketball without a shot
is a different story. I still remember the first time I saw Dean Memminger play, I was a little surprised he could not shoot either, he did improve and actually made a few jumpers later in the years at MU, hopefully Derrick can to. Coach has to build some confidence in him so he takes those shots, is Buzz telling him not to shot?
I agree its unfair to Derrick and I will stop contributing any such discussion concluding with this post, but not much else of interest to discuss right now regarding the team beyond the backcourt.
we should sticky this thread just as a reminder to the folks that bash Derrick
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on December 11, 2013, 02:09:54 PM
we should sticky this thread just as a reminder to the folks that bash Derrick
Hopefully his play shuts all of his detractors up, and those who have been most supportive can then go ahead and bash those of us who have been frustrated.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 10, 2013, 09:35:15 AM
Bashing Derrick is totally wrong, Derrick is a good kid from a good family. Bashing the coach who recruited him and the scout who thought he could play Division I basketball without a shot
is a different story. I still remember the first time I saw Dean Memminger play, I was a little surprised he could not shoot either, he did improve and actually made a few jumpers later in the years at MU, hopefully Derrick can to. Coach has to build some confidence in him so he takes those shots, is Buzz telling him not to shot?
Good comparison derrick to Dean the Dream---not!
BCHoopster
Did you really mention Dean the Dream in this thread? Your point on Dream's shooting may be accurate, aside from that I think you should mention Dean only in the greatest guards in school history threads.
Quote from: Goose on December 11, 2013, 07:20:14 PM
BCHoopster
Did you really mention Dean the Dream in this thread? Your point on Dream's shooting may be accurate, aside from that I think you should mention Dean only in the greatest guards in school history threads.
I guess, Dean was a consensus first team All American and the 16th pick in the 1971 NBA draft. Derrick still has a year to improve.......... My goodness, the blue/gold goggles.......
Derrick can't sniff Dean's Bike.
Quote from: Goose on December 11, 2013, 07:20:14 PM
BCHoopster
Did you really mention Dean the Dream in this thread? Your point on Dream's shooting may be accurate, aside from that I think you should mention Dean only in the greatest guards in school history threads.
If you go back that far, Dean barely took an outside shot as a freshman, and I watched all his games. Al stated more than once that when they took the dunk away from college, the bigger effect was on a player like Dean, that was his best shot. Other than his outside shot, the rest of his game was better than any player in MU history, no doubt about it. Jump out of the
gym, still see in my head, the lay-up he had in the Kentucky game in Madison, when MU took a 31-16 or so lead, stole the ball from and layed it up was about a foot over the rim. I never
saw the Wisconsin Field House louder in my life that night, and that play and Pat Smiths block of Dan Issel as some of the greatest plays in MU history. By the way, a little known fact is that Dan Issel committed and signed a Big Ten tender to come to Wisco and the other player that almost came was, Elvin Hayes. Could you believe the games during that era if both
of those players were there against the greatest 10 years of MU ball. Would have been fun to watch.
BCHoopster
Great memories. I agree with all you said and also remember those moments with Dean. Funny thing is the older I get it is hard to say I remember them like yesterday...more like 40+ years ago.
As for going back that far, sadly I do go back that far. To add insult to injury is my kids have heard all these stories and comparisons for their whole lives and like to razz me about it. Now with the Pack struggling a bit I can bring back my Scott Hunter stories and bore them on a new topic.
Dean was great from day one when he stepped on campus!
Quote from: Goose on December 12, 2013, 07:15:41 AM
BCHoopster
Great memories. I agree with all you said and also remember those moments with Dean. Funny thing is the older I get it is hard to say I remember them like yesterday...more like 40+ years ago.
As for going back that far, sadly I do go back that far. To add insult to injury is my kids have heard all these stories and comparisons for their whole lives and like to razz me about it. Now with the Pack struggling a bit I can bring back my Scott Hunter stories and bore them on a new topic.
Those were great moments, another moment I remember vividly is George Thompson cold cocking Rodney Knowles of Davidson, I was sitting right there and could not believe it. Those first
MU recruits from Al were tough and small, Ric Cobb, George, Joe Thomas, all tough. Ric took it to Spencer Haywood.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 10, 2013, 09:35:15 AM
Bashing Derrick is totally wrong, Derrick is a good kid from a good family. Bashing the coach who recruited him and the scout who thought he could play Division I basketball without a shot
is a different story. I still remember the first time I saw Dean Memminger play, I was a little surprised he could not shoot either, he did improve and actually made a few jumpers later in the years at MU, hopefully Derrick can to. Coach has to build some confidence in him so he takes those shots, is Buzz telling him not to shot?
Moratorium violation! Moratorium violation!
Quote from: LittleMurs on December 12, 2013, 09:21:43 AM
Moratorium violation! Moratorium violation!
No more Derrick, only good stories from the past. Another one of Al's first recruits was Jimmy Burke, he had the most interesting outside shot, two handed set shot, quick little player
and fun to watch.
BCHoopster
Refresh my memory, Jimmy Burke or Jackie Burke? Jack is and remains one of my favorite Warriors of all time.
Quote from: Goose on December 12, 2013, 10:52:29 AM
BCHoopster
Refresh my memory, Jimmy Burke or Jackie Burke? Jack is and remains one of my favorite Warriors of all time.
Jimmy was a smallish point, great D, quick, two handed set shot, Jackie was a slow white shooter who guarded Pete Maravich who was hung over in the NIT, and Jackie stated he is the
one who stopped Pete, I think Pete stopped himself but let Jackie have his due.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 12, 2013, 09:42:26 AM
No more Derrick, only good stories from the past. Another one of Al's first recruits was Jimmy Burke, he had the most interesting outside shot, two handed set shot, quick little player
and fun to watch.
Jimmy lived a couple of doors down the the hall in Schroeder (4 South) my freshman year. Great guy, he actually got me a job refereeing intramural football games with him. Starting point guard who roomed with starting forward Brian Brunkhorst. In March 1968, Jimmy hit his patented two hand set shot from the top of the key in the waning seconds to beat Bowling Green in Kent, Ohio and give Al his first ever NCAA tournament win. My first of many "road trips" to watch the Warriors in the tournament - fond memories.
Lenny
Thanks for the insight. I was only 5 in '68 and do not remember the Bowling Green game. Sounds like a powerhouse floor with Brunkhorst, smith and Lenny on it. What year did Jimmy graduate?
BCHoopster
Jackie definitely got his due for the Pistol comment.
Quote from: Goose on December 12, 2013, 11:38:05 AM
Lenny
Thanks for the insight. I was only 5 in '68 and do not remember the Bowling Green game. Sounds like a powerhouse floor with Brunkhorst, smith and Lenny on it. What year did Jimmy graduate?
BCHoopster
Jackie definitely got his due for the Pistol comment.
Goose
My freshman year was 66-67. If I remember correctly, Jimmy Burke was a junior then who had transferred from a school out east. Brian was a sophomore. Both great guys, not full of themselves at all. Jimmy played center field and Brian played first base on our intramural softball team. Jimmy graduated in '68, Brian in '69.
This is the best idea since they put the pocket in pita
Bump!
Just wanted to throw this out there again
OK, I gave myself this moratorium some three weeks ago and vowed not to make any more comments about Derrick for the rest of 2013.
The only comment I made about him in that time was when I nominated him for SoG after one of the cupcake wins.
Now it's 2014, so here goes ...
I want to start with this: I have absolutely no frustration with Derrick nor any animosity toward him. He seems like a nice young man and, as a basketball player, he is who he is. I have little doubt that he's trying very hard and doing his best. It isn't my fault that I'm not George Clooney and it isn't Derrick's fault that he's not Chris Paul (or even Junior Cadougan).
Having said all that, it did not take a wild imagination or a brilliant basketball mind to know going into this season that PG would be a major issue. Not once in his first two years at Marquette did Derrick ever give a sign that he had what it took to be a high-level college PG. Not once. That he has to start and play so many minutes is not an indictment of Derrick but of Buzz, who obviously feels he has no other options.
It would also seem to be some bad luck, because Duane's injury took away one possible option -- although Buzz said before the injury that Duane wasn't close to taking Derrick's job. So even that recruit apparently wasn't good enough to help much this season, and that's on Buzz, not Derrick. The other excuse folks like to make for Buzz is that he was surprised by Vander's decision to go pro. Well, if we want to be a big-time program, we're gonna have guys go pro after 3 years (or even 2 or even 1). Buzz had to know that Vander hated school and that he often had talked about going pro. Even if he was completely taken by surprise, that's why a coach recruits multiple studs, especially at a position as critical as PG.
I'm a big Buzz fan, but he isn't beyond criticism. Watching last night's game, I was floored by Buzz's decision to play Derrick even as Jamil was serving as PG. Given that bouncing the basketball is pretty much Derrick's only offensive skill, that move was a real head-scratcher. Playing Derrick off the ball is like using a WR with casts on two broken hands to serve as a decoy.
Before the season and in its early stages, there were some here who tried admirably hard to be very positive by saying a team with loads of talent elsewhere could get by with a caretaker/non-scoring PG. I suppose that's true, but who wants to just "get by"? Look at recent championship teams and point out one that had a PG who was totally incapable of hitting a shot other than a layup. I can't.
Plus, many of us obviously overrated our talent. We don't have enough of it to survive a PG who cannot create scoring opportunities for himself or for others. Opponents simply sag off on Derrick, which makes feeding the post more difficult and affects floor spacing all game long. The fact that not one of our 2-guards has emerged as a legitimate, consistent, high-level college player makes Derrick's shortcomings more obvious. I like to think JJJ will get there, but he isn't there yet. When nobody can hit an outside shot, it makes an offense-challenged PG stand out like a huge red zit on the end of a nose.
Even if Derrick plays great defense, it's still a killer to have such an offense-challenged player at the most important offensive position. It's like having a good-field, no-hit first baseman. Yeah, it's nice to have a guy who can scoop up bad throws, but great teams have first basemen who hit the ball over the fence and drive in runs. Great basketball teams have PGs who at least are threats to take the ball to the rim and/or hit an occasional outside shot. I would think a Junior Cadougan type is the absolute floor when talking about the level of PG necessary for a team with high aspirations.
I think Buzz is a smart coach and I think he already is learning how badly he overestimated Derrick's ability to be the floor general of a team that aspires to greatness. His increasing use of Jamil at PG is proof of that in the short term, and hopefully his recruiting will reflect that realization in the long term. I haven't seen the kids who have committed to Marquette for future classes, but plenty of others here have and say we have a couple of good PG options coming in. That makes me hopeful.
In the meantime, I am still going to resist dumping on Derrick the rest of the season. He is who he is, and that isn't his fault.
Happy New Year, everybody. Remember, it's only basketball, not anything important such as real life.
Quote from: MU82 on January 01, 2014, 04:38:42 PM
In the meantime, I am still going to resist dumping on Derrick the rest of the season. He is who he is, and that isn't his fault.
In truth, it is his fault because he knew his talent level and shortcomings, and speculating he would start this season, he did not work harder in the off season to improve his floor awareness and passing ability.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on January 01, 2014, 06:01:42 PM
In truth, it is his fault because he knew his talent level and shortcomings, and speculating he would start this season, he did not work harder in the off season to improve his floor awareness and passing ability.
What about the role of that sonuvabitch Larry Williams in all of this?
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on January 01, 2014, 06:01:42 PM
In truth, it is his fault because he knew his talent level and shortcomings, and speculating he would start this season, he did not work harder in the off season to improve his floor awareness and passing ability.
Yeah, I'm sure DW told himself "I suck, so I won't work on any of my deficiencies." As MU82 said, he is who he is. We all want him to be more. I want to win the lottery too. It's just not going to happen, as has become clear. As much as I love him, this is on Buzz. You can't always appreciate how far a 17-18 year old high school player will develop, and when you miss a couple of classes in a row, this is what happens.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 11, 2013, 10:45:09 PM
If you go back that far, Dean barely took an outside shot as a freshman, and I watched all his games.
You must have been watching the Freshman Team because The Dream never laced 'em up for Al as a Frosh.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on January 01, 2014, 06:01:42 PM
In truth, it is his fault because he knew his talent level and shortcomings, and speculating he would start this season, he did not work harder in the off season to improve his floor awareness and passing ability.
And you know this how?? We all have our opinions on this board, but to make something up out of the blue and pass it off as fact... c'mon, Man.
Quote from: connie on January 01, 2014, 06:11:33 PM
Yeah, I'm sure DW told himself "I suck, so I won't work on any of my deficiencies." As MU82 said, he is who he is. We all want him to be more. I want to win the lottery too. It's just not going to happen, as has become clear. As much as I love him, this is on Buzz. You can't always appreciate how far a 17-18 year old high school player will develop, and when you miss a couple of classes in a row, this is what happens.
So, in a nutshell, he can't improve even if he tried because "he is who he is". OK?
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on January 01, 2014, 06:01:42 PM
In truth, it is his fault because he knew his talent level and shortcomings, and speculating he would start this season, he did not work harder in the off season to improve his floor awareness and passing ability.
I bet he worked harder than anyone. But you're putting a mule in the horse race. Might be a hard-working mule that can carry a load, but no matter how hard it works it's still half donkey and will lose to every horse.
Quote from: chapman on January 01, 2014, 06:29:20 PM
I bet he worked harder than anyone. But you're putting a mule in the horse race. Might be a hard-working mule that can carry a load, but no matter how hard it works it's still half donkey and will lose to every horse.
Good analogy. If there must be blame, don't blame the mule--blame the guy who put him in the race.
I guess practice don't make perfect for Derrick.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on January 01, 2014, 06:37:44 PM
I guess practice don't make perfect for Derrick.
I'll give a very apt analogy, Sunbelt:
Shaquille O'Neal tried for years and years and years -- decades! -- to become a better FT shooter. He hired private FT tutors, practiced endlessly, even saw a shrink. Nevertheless, he was an even worse FT shooter in his 12th-16th seasons as a pro than he was in his first 11.
Practice didn't make perfect for one of the greatest players in basketball history ... but an anonymous poster on MUScoop knows for a fact that the reason Derrick didn't become a legit high-major PG was because he didn't work hard enough? Interesting.
Quote from: MU82 on January 01, 2014, 06:44:11 PM
I'll give a very apt analogy, Sunbelt:
Shaquille O'Neal tried for years and years and years -- decades! -- to become a better FT shooter. He hired private FT tutors, practiced endlessly, even saw a shrink. Nevertheless, he was an even worse FT shooter in his 12th-16th seasons as a pro than he was in his first 11.
Practice didn't make perfect for one of the greatest players in basketball history ... but an anonymous poster on MUScoop knows for a fact that the reason Derrick didn't become a legit high-major PG was because he didn't work hard enough? Interesting.
Who's talking facts? It's all opinions up here. Improvement simply takes consent repetition. Not coaches and shrinks. He needed more passing reps and practice. I assume he practice in a comfort zone, meaning he try's nothing new in practice. No no-look passes, no lob passes, etc. Things at take no athletic ability.
Shaq never dedicated himself to freethrows, no matter what he says.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on January 01, 2014, 07:03:42 PM
Who's talking facts? It's all opinions up here. Improvement simply takes consent repetition. Not coaches and shrinks. He needed more passing reps and practice. I assume he practice in a comfort zone, meaning he try's nothing new in practice. No no-look passes, no lob passes, etc. Things at take no athletic ability.
Shaq never dedicated himself to freethrows, no matter what he says.
Perfect.
So now you not only are an expert on every Marquette player's practice regimen despite never witnessing any of them, but you also are an expert on Shaquille O'Neal's FT practice regimen.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on January 01, 2014, 06:28:39 PM
So, in a nutshell, he can't improve even if he tried because "he is who he is". OK?
Yes. He simply doesn't have the talent. This may sound harsh, but what have you seen of his play that would lead you to think different? With Todd I might agree with you. He may have commitment issues. From everything I have heard Derrick is a great teammate and person, and a very hard worker. As much as I want him to improve, what I see tells me he is simply not capable of more.
The odd thing is, he actually has a good looking jumper. Nice form, good rotation, doesn't over-elevate or jump sideways. If he's going to play, he should be required to shoot a top of the key 3 within the first two minutes just to change the D.
Quote from: MU82 on January 01, 2014, 07:08:27 PM
Perfect.
So now you not only are an expert on every Marquette player's practice regimen despite never witnessing any of them, but you also are an expert on Shaquille O'Neal's FT practice regimen.
No substance. I won.
On the plus side, he has a chance to join Chris Grimm, Rod Grosse and Bart Miller as the worst four-year players to suit up for Marquette when all is said and done.
Afroman, have you heard of the new laws in Colorado? MU82 , nice post. As for Derrick he is what he is, a great athlete but not a great BB player. This one is more Buzz than Derrick as to him(Derrick) not leading the team like a great pg.
Quote from: Afroman on January 01, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
On the plus side, he has a chance to join Chris Grimm, Rod Grosse and Bart Miller as the worst four-year players to suit up for Marquette when all is said and done.
Didn't Bart Miller end up getting a Masters of Engineering from MIT? I recall both he and David Diggs both ended up at MIT after Marquette. He might not have ended up in the NBA but he likely has done well in life. I am proud to have such men representing our alma mater.
Egg head or not, he was still terrible on the hardwood.
Quote from: Afroman on January 02, 2014, 10:31:01 AM
Egg head or not, he was still terrible on the hardwood.
Well, he could likely kick my a$$ on the hardwood so I'll withhold judgment. Unless I had my M9 Beretta, that is, then he probably wouldn't kick my a$$ but he would beat me badly in a game of one-on-one as it's hard to shoot with a shoulder holster.