Watchin' today's game led me to the conclusion that MU is woefully short in talent. Some of this is due to players like Newbill and Taylor (transfer dude from Oklahoma, who never showed) who were recruited to fill a void, but didn't. And our lack of recruitin' bigs is well documented. In addition, we lost out on playas like Tokoto and Looney who are tall, athletic, and quick. Others, who are on the roster, simply haven't developed as needed.
This leads me to realize that signin' or not signin' Diamond Stone will be a definin' moment for Buzz and Marquette. In fact, I'd say its paramount to this program's future, like it was with Joe Wolf and Majerus.
4ever
Was just comparing Stone to Wolf to my son. Could not agree more. Going 0 for 3 on the three local studs would be major blow. Like our chances on Stone compared to Wolf back in the day. We need Diamond and we need him badly.
Because, of course, all bigs are ready to contribute as freshmen. Dakari Johnson is really tearing it up at UK.
Quote from: Goose on December 07, 2013, 05:53:30 PM
4ever
Was just comparing Stone to Wolf to my son. Could not agree more. Going 0 for 3 on the three local studs would be major blow. Like our chances on Stone compared to Wolf back in the day. We need Diamond and we need him badly.
Need him badly is a little strong. Landing stone would bring mu to championship level imo but not getting him would still leave us in better shape than majerus teams ever were
Y'all had to have lived through the significance of the Wolf/Majerus/MU scenario to appreciate the origin of my thoughts. Yes, Stone appears to be a program changer, but almost more importantly, would be in his presence, and what it means in bringin' in other coveted players and how it defines the program as it steps forward.
Championship level? How about winning against mediocre non-conference teams level?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 07, 2013, 06:13:09 PM
Y'all had to have lived through the significance of the Wolf/Majerus/MU scenario to appreciate the origin of my thoughts. Yes, Stone appears to be a program changer, but almost more importantly, would be in his presence, and what it means in bringin' in other coveted players and how it defines the program as it steps forward.
Yeah in that regard you are correct
Quote from: madtownwarrior on December 07, 2013, 06:13:39 PM
Championship level? How about winning against mediocre non-conference teams level?
Damn. Thought you were going to become a badger fan.
Look at the big picture dude instead of a few games.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on December 07, 2013, 06:13:39 PM
Championship level? How about winning against mediocre non-conference teams level?
How quickly we forget we were in an Elite Eight last year ::)
Quote from: wadesworld on December 07, 2013, 06:21:14 PM
How quickly we forget we were in an Elite Eight last year ::)
Yep--our performance this year makes it easy.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 07, 2013, 07:00:49 PM
Yep--our performance this year makes it easy.
It's a guards game. We need to recruit more bigs.
But it is true. Last year seems like it was an eternity ago. We ain't no good. Let's get some guards.
Land Stone and bright future. Loss him and things could change quickly. Agree that if you lived and saw the Wolf saga you understand there times programs hit a crossroad. Land Wof and Rick is here for long time. Ended up on short end of the straw and long two decades followed.
Was thinking about Rick a lot today. A year ago this weekend he passed away and have to say it really makes me sad. In last year I have lost several people I really cared for and hope next twelve months is better in that regard. When all is said and done it is only a game.
R u fuckin kidding me? This thread was started by 4ever?
Wow--disappointing? Newbill-really?
God damn if we only could land a recruit like Med Hill.......program changer. Too bad. O
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 07, 2013, 08:49:47 PM
R u unnatural carnal knowledgein kidding me? This thread was started by 4ever?
Wow--disappointing? Newbill-really?
Newbill is a stretch because we wouldn't have Jamil without him.
But I think TJ Taylor would have been a contributor this year. Probably the starting SG. Solid player.
Should we play the guessing game if Newbill were on the roster? Thats what we are doubg ? Please.
Landing Stone would be especially great if he's a package deal with Charles Matthews.
Quote from: JerseyWarrior on December 07, 2013, 11:12:55 PM
Landing Stone would be especially great if he's a package deal with Charles Matthews.
Hopefully, Stone and Matthews aren't a package deal because if they are that package is very unlikely to be heading MU's way.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 07, 2013, 06:13:09 PM
Y'all had to have lived through the significance of the Wolf/Majerus/MU scenario to appreciate the origin of my thoughts. Yes, Stone appears to be a program changer, but almost more importantly, would be in his presence, and what it means in bringin' in other coveted players and how it defines the program as it steps forward.
No recruit will ever define the Marquette program. The program
as it exists currently is defined AS IT SHOULD BE by one guy, Buzz Williams. The recruits that MU is getting and the recruits that aren't giving MU a serious thought are all being determined by the type of atmosphere that Buzz has created to coach/build a team the way he wants to do it. I like the results so far, especially given the incredible consistency in the first five years. Wolf might have determined Majerus's future at Marquette, but Majerus wasn't the coach then that he later showed himself to be at Utah and SLU.
Yes, Mrs. Looney would have been pleased if Buzz had spent a lot of valuable recruiting resources on Kevon before Kevon decided on UCLA, but Buzz having the good sense to move on early was the reason that MU landed its second very good class in a row.
Buzz will impress a certain amount of recruits and recruit's parents. And a certain amount of recruits and recruits parents will find that Buzz is too corny or focuses too much on life lessons at the expense of basketball. Great. To each his own. I am quite happy with what I've seen in the last 5 and 1/2 years, and I hope that Buzz continues on as the guy defining MU's basketball program.
Quote from: Goose on December 07, 2013, 08:46:25 PM
Land Stone and bright future. Loss him and things could change quickly. Agree that if you lived and saw the Wolf saga you understand there times programs hit a crossroad. Land Wof and Rick is here for long time. Ended up on short end of the straw and long two decades followed.
Was thinking about Rick a lot today. A year ago this weekend he passed away and have to say it really makes me sad. In last year I have lost several people I really cared for and hope next twelve months is better in that regard. When all is said and done it is only a game.
The greatest compliment I can think to give you (and it
is a compliment) is to say that coming from you this post disappoints me.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 07, 2013, 06:13:09 PM
Y'all had to have lived through the significance of the Wolf/Majerus/MU scenario to appreciate the origin of my thoughts. Yes, Stone appears to be a program changer, but almost more importantly, would be in his presence, and what it means in bringin' in other coveted players and how it defines the program as it steps forward.
College BBall has changed so much. The situations are not at all comparable. There is so much more parity today than there was then. Getting one great player can elevate you a lot, but missing out on one is nowhere near the blow it was back then - particularly Wolf/ MU at the time. This would be nowhere near the same thing.
Stone is huge. 6'9" or 6'10", I hear. Now that is huge.
Buzz hasn't failed to reel in a top-100 RSCI guy in any class. He brought in 3 last year, seems a good chance there will be 2-3 again next year (depending on where Shayok ranks out), and we most likely already have one each in the 2015 and 2017 classes. While I recognize the difference between a true five-star blue chip like Stone and the top-100s we've been reeling in, our recruiting has been both steady and trending up. Our results on the court have done the same.
If we get stone, it will be huge. If we lose out, we will survive. The real X factor for me is coaching. As long as Buzz sticks around we'll be fine.
Little Murs
My point on things changing quickly has more to do with MU's ability to attract top rated recruits. Stone is top 10 kid, in our backyard and to the best of my knowledge Buzz wants him badly. Sometimes losing a target recruit can have a long term affect on a program, especially a program like MU were Buzz fights for everything he gets.
That said, what I have heard recently gives me a good feeling on Buzz landing Stone. Sounds like a real serious interest from Stone and that is awesome.
Losing Wolf was a symptom of a greater problem. If MU fails to land Stone, it is a much better place than it was back in 1983 when they lost Wolf.
Sultan
Things are much better at MU today and fair point. What if this season turns into 17 or 18 win season and next year the same? You do not seem very high on our young guys right now and losing Jamil and DG will be tough to replace.
Quote from: Goose on December 08, 2013, 08:41:45 AM
Sultan
Things are much better at MU today and fair point. What if this season turns into 17 or 18 win season and next year the same? You do not seem very high on our young guys right now and losing Jamil and DG will be tough to replace.
I'm actually really high on the young guys...in the future. Right now Buzz is playing the best he has.
And even a couple first round NCAA loses or NIT births isn't going to significantly harm the program. We lived through that immediately after the 2003 Final Four and the program bounced back just fine. This isn't the 80s. MU has the money and hopefully the leadership that understands what basketball means to the University. Furthermore if Buzz hangs around, they also have a great coach who brings talent to Milwaukee.
Much different time and place.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 08, 2013, 06:58:09 AM
Buzz hasn't failed to reel in a top-100 RSCI guy in any class. He brought in 3 last year, seems a good chance there will be 2-3 again next year (depending on where Shayok ranks out), and we most likely already have one each in the 2015 and 2017 classes. While I recognize the difference between a true five-star blue chip like Stone and the top-100s we've been reeling in, our recruiting has been both steady and trending up. Our results on the court have done the same.
If we get stone, it will be huge. If we lose out, we will survive. The real X factor for me is coaching. As long as Buzz sticks around we'll be fine.
But don't you know that Buzz is a ninny who plays the wrong guys, can't recruit bigs and probably should be fired after our loss to Syracuse in the NCAAs?
Sultan
Think you are missing one important thing, we are no longer in greatest basketball conference of all time. Post 2003 we were living in very elite part of the basketball world. Our new conference is closer to Great Midwest than it is the old BE.
Quote from: Goose on December 08, 2013, 09:17:52 AM
Sultan
Think you are missing one important thing, we are no longer in greatest basketball conference of all time. Post 2003 we were living in very elite part of the basketball world. Our new conference is closer to Great Midwest than it is the old BE.
But it's more lucrative. And considering the class Buzz just brought in despite the change in conference, I am not too worried. And it is a MUCH better situation then where we were in the 80s.
I just refuse to be a doom-sayer about this.
The program is in much better shape than it ever was under majerus. Losing stone won't change that. 4ever does make a valid comparison in that recruiting stone will help going forward with recruiting high ranked local talent. Similar to what wolf would have done or think Reggie white.
Quote from: Goose on December 08, 2013, 08:20:42 AM
That said, what I have heard recently gives me a good feeling on Buzz landing Stone. Sounds like a real serious interest from Stone and that is awesome.
Please elaborate, Goose.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on December 08, 2013, 10:18:10 AM
Please elaborate, Goose.
Just keep in mind this is the same guy that said it was a done deal that Buzz was gone.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 08, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Just keep in mind this is the same guy that said it was a done deal that Buzz was gone.
No that was goldenboy who said it was a done deal and Stone was just going through the recruiting process to satisfy his father.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 08, 2013, 11:41:56 AM
No that was goldenboy who said it was a done deal and Stone was just going through the recruiting process to satisfy his father.
No, go back and read what I wrote. Was talking about when Goose's sources told him that it was a done deal that Buzz was leaving after last (I think) season.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 08, 2013, 11:53:36 AM
No, go back and read what I wrote. Was talking about when Goose's sources told him that it was a done deal that Buzz was leaving after last (I think) season.
Oh gotcha.
Atl MU Warrior
Yep same guy that said done deal Buzz was gone after last season. Good call on not trusting me.
Quote from: Goose on December 08, 2013, 03:16:18 PM
Atl MU Warrior
Yep same guy that said done deal Buzz was gone after last season. Good call on not trusting me.
Listen, In this case I sure hope you are right. That would totally redeem you in my eyes. I am sure that is important to you ;D
All MU Warrior
We all seek redemption. Would say my sources on Buzz being gone were far stronger than Stone source :). Truthfully heard some good things both about how Stone feels and his Father. Hope all is accurate on what I heard.
Quote from: Goose on December 08, 2013, 03:30:38 PM
All MU Warrior
We all seek redemption. Would say my sources on Buzz being gone were far stronger than Stone source :). Truthfully heard some good things both about how Stone feels and his Father. Hope all is accurate on what I heard.
Me too.
Quote from: Goose on December 08, 2013, 03:30:38 PM
All MU Warrior
We all seek redemption. Would say my sources on Buzz being gone were far stronger than Stone source :). Truthfully heard some good things both about how Stone feels and his Father. Hope all is accurate on what I heard.
Apparently Diamond's father attends almost every Marquette home game. I've heard the contrary to what some say about him not liking Buzz. Seems like we've been in good shape with Diamond and company for quite a while.