http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/234679151.html
Whatever is best for the young man.
I don't have a problem red-shirting him as opposed to him seeing very limited play this year.
I wish Junior was red-shirted his Freshman year and we had him for a full season this year.
As long as he doesn't pull a Cadougan, I'll be fine with whatever the decision is.
If he's not going to be able to contribute some good minutes, might as well do it. At least gives him the option for that fifth year. The "he may not want to be in school five years" reason is lame when you're talking about a freshman, he doesn't know what he will want in 2018.
Quote from: chapman on December 05, 2013, 08:26:40 PM
If he's not going to be able to contribute some good minutes, might as well do it. At least gives him the option for that fifth year. The "he may not want to be in school five years" reason is lame when you're talking about a freshman, he doesn't know what he will want in 2018.
He could also call VB in Israel and ask him what his thoughts are about five years of college...
Quote from: Atticus on December 05, 2013, 08:34:28 PM
He could also call VB in Israel and ask him what his thoughts are about five years of college...
I'm not sure if you are implying that this would convince him to redshirt or not, but I bet Vander would tell him that he is happy getting paid to play ball.
The kid was dunking 2 weeks ago, he's not going to red-shirt, he just isn't.
Quote from: The Lens on December 05, 2013, 09:15:33 PM
The kid was dunking 2 weeks ago, he's not going to red-shirt, he just isn't.
Your sure about this? From the JS article
Wilson worked 12 minutes Wednesday and more than 14 on Thursday. He is expected to go up to 17 minutes Friday before the Golden Eagles leave to play at Wisconsin on Saturday.
"It's still limited, but it's more than it was two weeks ago and definitely more than it was a month ago," coach Buzz Williams said.So a guy that was only capable of practicing for 12 minutes yesterday was dunking two weeks ago?
Quote from: Heisenberg on December 05, 2013, 09:20:56 PM
Your sure about this? From the JS article
Wilson worked 12 minutes Wednesday and more than 14 on Thursday. He is expected to go up to 17 minutes Friday before the Golden Eagles leave to play at Wisconsin on Saturday.
"It's still limited, but it's more than it was two weeks ago and definitely more than it was a month ago," coach Buzz Williams said.
So a guy that was only capable of practicing for 12 minutes yesterday was dunking two weeks ago?
The word from the New Hampshire game was that he was dunking in pre-game.
Again ... two weeks ago his foot was good enough to stress with the violent jumping of a dunk but he was just now cleared to practice and could only go 12 minutes yesterday?
If his foot was good enough to dunk two weeks ago, he should have been practicing for three or four weeks now, now two days.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40673.msg533400;topicseen#msg533400
Quote from: Heisenberg on December 05, 2013, 09:32:39 PM
Again ... two weeks ago his foot was good enough to stress with the violent jumping of a dunk but he was just now cleared to practice and could only go 12 minutes yesterday?
If his foot was good enough to dunk two weeks ago, he should have been practicing for three or four weeks now, now two days.
I had a stress fracture in my left foot in high school that sidelined me for about a month and a half. I was dunking a week after I was diagnosed with the fracture and 1 month before I ever stepped foot on the court for a game. Making a long story short, people can dunk on a stress fracture. It's a completely different thing to play in a game and practice everyday. Even more so at the Division 1 level.
Quote from: Heisenberg on December 05, 2013, 09:32:39 PM
Again ... two weeks ago his foot was good enough to stress with the violent jumping of a dunk but he was just now cleared to practice and could only go 12 minutes yesterday?
If his foot was good enough to dunk two weeks ago, he should have been practicing for three or four weeks now, now two days.
almost seems like he's capable of jumping off of either foot
Quote from: chapman on December 05, 2013, 08:26:40 PM
If he's not going to be able to contribute some good minutes, might as well do it. At least gives him the option for that fifth year. The "he may not want to be in school five years" reason is lame when you're talking about a freshman, he doesn't know what he will want in 2018.
Excuse me! Yes he would know....you wouldn't but he would.
How the hell would he not know what he would want in the next 10 minutes, much less 4 years from now?
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on December 06, 2013, 06:35:21 AM
Excuse me! Yes he would know....you wouldn't but he would.
How the hell would he not know what he would want in the next 10 minutes, much less 4 years from now?
I hear in 2008 Otule dreamed of playing college basketball into 2019. He's created a person named "Satchel Pierce" to help him achieve this goal, in case anyone is wondering why Pierce will be wearing goggles thicker than Chris when he gets to campus next year. :D
Quote from: MUSF on December 05, 2013, 09:13:12 PM
I'm not sure if you are implying that this would convince him to redshirt or not, but I bet Vander would tell him that he is happy getting paid to play ball.
This is correct. Heck, Vander might tell him to get on a plain to Israel tomorrow.
Quote from: chapman on December 05, 2013, 08:26:40 PM
If he's not going to be able to contribute some good minutes, might as well do it. At least gives him the option for that fifth year. The "he may not want to be in school five years" reason is lame when you're talking about a freshman, he doesn't know what he will want in 2018.
Alright! Now we have yet another current or former MU player for whom people here feel entitled to speak, and make judgements as to what is in their best interest.
I don't think Duane will elect to redshirt. That said, I think it might be best not just for the team but for him as a player if he did.
From a personal perspective, he would have to come in behind both DeWil and Dawson in the pecking order, and with Derrick putting up 10 ppg, 4.8 apg, and 3.8 rpg the past 4 games, it's pretty clear that cutting into those minutes will be tough. Junior rushed back and ended up burning a year for barely any minutes and I fear Duane would do the same. From a defensive standpoint, it would take time to catch up to where the rest of the freshmen are at, and most of them are still behind the curve with a quarter of the season gone. Defense earns minutes, and my guess is Duane probably wouldn't be up to speed on that end until January or February, by which time the rotation would be set.
For the team, it would help balance the classes regarding the point. Next year we'd come in with a senior in Derrick, a sophomore in Dawson, and a freshman in Duane, with Nick on deck. It'd be a near-perfect balance, though with the experience of a year training, Duane would be able to contend for more minutes as a redshirt freshman right out of the gate, improving our depth. And when Derrick leaves, we would have two experienced points to take the reins.
It's really an excellent scenario. That said, I'm expect he'll burn the redshirt and both player and fans will regret it down the line.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on December 06, 2013, 06:35:21 AM
Excuse me! Yes he would know....you wouldn't but he would.
How the hell would he not know what he would want in the next 10 minutes, much less 4 years from now?
Spoken with all the expertise that comes with being young and inexperienced in the world.
Quote from: tower912 on December 05, 2013, 07:58:30 PM
Whatever is best for the young man.
+1
That's really all that needs to be said.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on December 06, 2013, 07:36:11 AM
Alright! Now we have yet another current or former MU player for whom people here feel entitled to speak, and make judgements as to what is in their best interest.
Yes, how dare someone offer an opinion for an 18 year old to consider when making a big decision.
Quote from: chapman on December 06, 2013, 07:52:02 AM
Yes, how dare someone offer an opinion for an 18 year old to consider when making a big decision.
So when you said,
The "he may not want to be in school five years" reason is lame when you're talking about a freshman, he doesn't know what he will want in 2018., you were simply offering an opinion for him to consider?
He's on Twitter. You should go share that little nugget with him. I'm sure he'll appreciate it.
Maybe he worked for 12 straight minutes or it was game like situations and he played 12 minutes of in game situations. I am encouraged cause he is going back to back days and increasing minutes.
I will be surprised if we don't see him in a game before the calendar says 2014.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on December 06, 2013, 08:29:36 AM
I will be surprised if we don't see him in a game before the calendar says 2014.
This.
There's plenty of time for Wilson to get acclimated before conference starts and he'll have a role to play in Marquette's coming 15-3 season. Kid will be a stud in the future.
I support whatever Duane wants to do. I think that's Buzz's attitude as well.
How about this?
Redshirt this year to have the option for a 5th year. If he lights it up, he skips the 5th year (or even the 4th).
Am I crazy?
Quote from: mu-rara on December 06, 2013, 09:38:36 AM
How about this?
Redshirt this year to have the option for a 5th year. If he lights it up, he skips the 5th year (or even the 4th).
Am I crazy?
He might not want to redshirt.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 06, 2013, 07:51:49 AM
+1
That's really all that needs to be said.
It seems simple, doesn't it? But off we go......
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on December 05, 2013, 08:12:46 PM
As long as he doesn't pull a Cadougan, I'll be fine with whatever the decision is.
What is pulling a Cadougan? Maybe the reverse of pulling a Blue?
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 06, 2013, 09:27:19 AM
I support whatever Duane wants to do. I think that's Buzz's attitude as well.
Yes, that's right. Just like Buzz supported what Vander wanted to do.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on December 06, 2013, 08:29:36 AM
I will be surprised if we don't see him in a game before the calendar says 2014.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him out there tomorrow. That article reeks of Hunt trying to pump Buzz for a story.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on December 06, 2013, 09:57:04 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see him out there tomorrow. That article reeks of Hunt trying to pump Buzz for a story.
I would be extremely surprised to see him playing tomorrow.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2013, 09:40:59 AM
It seems simple, doesn't it? But off we go......
I think we all agree that we want what is best for the young man.
I think there is simply a disagreement over what that is.
A redshirt year would give him the most options in the future. He is young and dying to get on the floor. I understand that. If he turns out to be an NBA talent, then he is probably better off playing this year.
But it is not unfair to say that as of December 2013, Duane Wilson doesn't know what his situation will be in 2017, and he may very well wish at that time that he didn't waste the 2013-14 season by playing sparingly. Impossible to say. Heck, he might be our best player by mid-February.
All we can do is hope that whatever decision he makes turns out to be the best decision for him.
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 06, 2013, 10:01:04 AM
I think we all agree that we want what is best for the young man.
I think there is simply a disagreement over what that is.
A redshirt year would give him the most options in the future. He is young and dying to get on the floor. I understand that. If he turns out to be an NBA talent, then he is probably better off playing this year.
But it is not unfair to say that as of December 2014, Duane Wilson doesn't know what his situation will be in 2018, and he may very well wish at that time that he didn't waste the 2013-14 season by playing sparingly. Impossible to say. Heck, he might be our best player by mid-February.
All we can do is hope that whatever decision he makes turns out to be the best decision for him.
Most decisions in life are about immediate needs and gratification vs long term needs and gratification.
This one is no different.
Whatever they decide, it will be "right".
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 06, 2013, 10:01:04 AM
I think we all agree that we want what is best for the young man.
I think there is simply a disagreement over what that is.
It isn't our place to agree or disagree. I have seen enough about how Junior Cadougan or Vander Blue made a "dumb" decision, About how Duane Wilson coming back would be a "mistake." A mistake for whom? Those labeling these things as such, are doing so from only their own perspective because they want MU to be good every year, so no, I don't agree that we all want what is best for the kid. The are some who want ony what's best for MU from a W-L perspective, and they demonstrate it through their criticism of the decisions these guys make.
I'd love to have Cadougan and Blue on this team right now too, but I cannot say that they made a mistake in what they decided. First of all, it isn't my place or anyone else's to do so, second, I don't believe they did make a mistake, simply because MU isn't as good as they otherwise might be.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on December 06, 2013, 10:45:29 AM
It isn't our place to agree or disagree. I have seen enough about how Junior Cadougan or Vander Blue made a "dumb" decision, About how Duane Wilson coming back would be a "mistake." A mistake for whom? Those labeling these things as such, are doing so from only their own perspective because they want MU to be good every year, so no, I don't agree that we all want what is best for the kid. The are some who want ony what's best for MU from a W-L perspective, and they demonstrate it through their criticism of the decisions these guys make.
I'd love to have Cadougan and Blue on this team right now too, but I cannot say that they made a mistake in what they decided. First of all, it isn't my place or anyone else's to do so, second, I don't believe they did make a mistake, simply because MU isn't as good as they otherwise might be.
I think people are arguing about what is best from a basketball perspective both individually and from the programs perspective. If that bugs you, i don't think spending time on a MU message board is a good idea.
Quote from: LAZER on December 06, 2013, 10:51:24 AM
I think people are arguing about what is best from a basketball perspective both individually and from the programs perspective. If that bugs you, i don't think spending time on a MU message board is a good idea.
From an MU perspective, I'm okay with a red-shirt if he is unlikely to be prepared to contribute significantly. I'll trade the month or so of game experience for an additional year in the program.
From the player's perspective, I think Duane needs to decide if he's okay with five years in college. That's his decision and I'm not going to denigrate his judgment based on the impacts it has on the program.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on December 06, 2013, 10:45:29 AMAbout how Duane Wilson coming back would be a "mistake." A mistake for whom? Those labeling these things as such, are doing so from only their own perspective because they want MU to be good every year, so no, I don't agree that we all want what is best for the kid. The are some who want ony what's best for MU from a W-L perspective, and they demonstrate it through their criticism of the decisions these guys make.
I think I made a pretty decent case as to why redshirting could be what's best for Duane. He will start third in the pecking order at his position if he comes back. He will most likely be behind Dawson in terms of defense and thus minutes. With the way DeWil has been playing of late, he is probably going to be a 30 mpg guy for most of the rest of the season. It wouldn't surprise me if Wilson came back and saw fewer minutes than Cadougan did as a freshman.
Now I expect him to burn the redshirt and try to play. If he does make a big impact, great, but just based on past history, that seems highly unlikely. Basically, he has two options. He can try to be the guy who comes in and fights for as much of the 8-10 minutes that Derrick doesn't play as he can get while being clearly 2nd choice off the bat for those 8-10 minutes, or he can wait, get back to full strength, and have a chance to compete for likely more minutes on more even ground next year while having an extra year in the bank to make it easier to both get his degree or showcase his talents for the next level.
My gut says he plays, but I don't think it's at all unthinkable that he could come to regret that decision down the line. And remember, if he redshirts and comes in next year and is a stud and steals DeWil's job as a redshirt freshman and has an All-American sophomore year, there would be nothing stopping him from making the jump right to the NBA. Does anyone really think he'll be there in sooner than 3 years?
Quote from: BigDaddy84 on November 30, 2013, 10:01:16 AM
Expected to be available for UW...but not sure if he will see the court or not. Has some catching up to do. But IUPIU seems most likely for first live action. I am looking forward to him playing..especially with the new "hands off" rules. His ability to get to the rim will be a big plus.
I'll just leave this here.
Man this team with Junior is probably a better team than it is with Derrick. If he took that redshirt and didn't play meaningless minutes freshman year he would be here and I feel this team would be far better.
I say redshirt, but I really do want to see this guy on the floor so its a tough call. Whatever is best for him is the right decision
All of a sudden Junior is bein' looked at as the second comin' of Oscar Robertson. It's amazin' how much folks grow in stature once they've departed. Let's not paint Cadougan into more than he ever was, i.e. a middle of the road D-1 point guard.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 06, 2013, 07:05:41 PM
All of a sudden Junior is bein' looked at as the second comin' of Oscar Robertson. It's amazin' how much folks grow in stature once they've departed. Let's not paint Cadougan into more than he ever was, i.e. a middle of the road D-1 point guard.
Oh but what I wouldn't give for that patch of middle ground now Doc.
One of the most underrated PGs at MU was Mandy Johnson. Wouldn't an 18 yo Mandy look great today?
(http://media.jrn.com/images/mjs-hank-raymondsa.jpg)
Crash, you are right, man. #20 from Jersey City's St. Anthony's was legendary. Highly heralded and didn't disappoint.
Junior can't fill up half of Mandy's Bike.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 06, 2013, 07:05:41 PM
All of a sudden Junior is bein' looked at as the second comin' of Oscar Robertson. It's amazin' how much folks grow in stature once they've departed. Let's not paint Cadougan into more than he ever was, i.e. a middle of the road D-1 point guard.
I came to respect and appreciate what Junior brought during his junior season. Just as I came to respect and appreciate what Lockett brought as last season went on. And I don't think I'm alone there.
Junior had his detractors, but most intelligent observers knew he brought something to the table.
The big differences between Junior and Derrick, which have been stated many times: 1, Opponents had to at least think that Junior might occasionally shoot; 2, Junior occasionally broke down his man with the dribble, drove hard to the hoop and created for himself and others. Derrick has shown a flash of the latter but he simply can't hit a shot. Stating that doesn't mean one "hates" Derrick. It's just the truth.
Derrick would be another nice piece to the pie. If he is NBA material why waste a year of making $$. I think he plays this year.
Quote from: MU82 on December 06, 2013, 09:08:30 PM
The big differences between Junior and Derrick, which have been stated many times: 1, Opponents had to at least think that Junior might occasionally shoot; 2, Junior occasionally broke down his man with the dribble, drove hard to the hoop and created for himself and others. Derrick has shown a flash of the latter but he simply can't hit a shot. Stating that doesn't mean one "hates" Derrick. It's just the truth.
Ding ding. Now, 82, you're starting to get it. Same thing when someone states the "truth" about MU, doesn't mean they hate MU or Buzz, but often people are labeled that way. Same thing going on here with Mr. Wilson.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 06, 2013, 11:07:42 PM
Ding ding. Now, 82, you're starting to get it. Same thing when someone states the "truth" about MU, doesn't mean they hate MU or Buzz, but often people are labeled that way. Same thing going on here with Mr. Wilson.
OK, but the fact is that Derrick can't shoot from beyond a few feet. Stats and facts bear that out.
Most (but not all) Buzz criticism is that he refuses to play freshmen, The Buzz is "overly loyal," that he can't recruit bigs, the he overrecruits JCs, that fans know Marquette's personnel better than Buzz does, that the team was somehow better off under Crean, etc.
I believe most if not all of those now-cliches have been proven false ... whereas one need only look at a shot chart to know what I said about Derrick is not an opinion at all but a cold, hard fact.