I started a thread after the ASU game saying I think our offense is better without him. I have to give credit where credit is due. While he clearly wasn't playing "his game" because of his recent injury, I really liked how he played today. Quick passes, moving off of the ball, only looking to shoot when it was within the flow of the offense. If he can play like that he will be a HUGE asset to the team. I know he has the ABILITY to take his defender 1 on 1 off of the dribble, but I do not think that is what this Marquette offense needs from him. A 3 point shooter and a slasher within the offense. Once he goes into his tunnel vision of him and the hoop that's when it hurts Marquette. Hoping for more play like today from him.
When his ankle recovers..... with JJJ's progress and JThomas and JWilson finding their strokes, suddenly the offense doesn't look so bad.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2013, 08:21:23 PM
I started a thread after the ASU game saying I think our offense is better without him. I have to give credit where credit is due. While he clearly wasn't playing "his game" because of his recent injury, I really liked how he played today. Quick passes, moving off of the ball, only looking to shoot when it was within the flow of the offense. If he can play like that he will be a HUGE asset to the team. I know he has the ABILITY to take his defender 1 on 1 off of the dribble, but I do not think that is what this Marquette offense needs from him. A 3 point shooter and a slasher within the offense. Once he goes into his tunnel vision of him and the hoop that's when it hurts Marquette. Hoping for more play like today from him.
This is all fine and well, only point I'd make is that JJJ played a game today exactly like Mayo typically plays....and everybody is salivating over JJJ. Obviously when you go 3 for 3 from the 3 that is a great afternoon - yet JJJ's 3's weren't just of the wide open variety. And in my view - I loved that JJJ knocked down the contested 3's he did, because it show great skill. Todd has a great stroke...best pure jump shot form on the team, and believe he'll end the season around 40% from 3 if he gets good run.
Ideally want this lineup
Derrick/Dawson/Duane
Todd
JJJ
Jamil
Otule or Gardner - can always keep Gardner on bench to bring in for offense if you want to sub out one of Todd, JJJ or Jamil..
Quote from: Ners on November 28, 2013, 08:51:57 PM
This is all fine and well, only point I'd make is that JJJ played a game today exactly like Mayo typically plays....
That just isn't true. Mayo has only once scored more than the 18 than JJJ scored today...v. Northern Colorado when he was a freshman. But Todd needed 15 shots to get his 22 points that day....JJJ only needed 8 to get his 18.
I could argue that Todd has *never* matched JJJ's performance today when you combine efficiency and production. But that must certainly is NOT how "Mayo typically plays."
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 28, 2013, 09:01:07 PM
That just isn't true. Mayo has only once scored more than the 18 than JJJ scored today...v. Northern Colorado when he was a freshman. But Todd needed 15 shots to get his 22 points that day....JJJ only needed 8 to get his 18.
I could argue that Todd has *never* matched JJJ's performance today when you combine efficiency and production. But that must certainly is NOT how "Mayo typically plays."
And I can promise you JJJ won't shoot 100% from the 3 point line all year too...I'd suspect to get 3 makes, on average JJJ will need 8 shots....which is still saying 42% from 3 for JJJ which is a great number...so, I'd put 5 more FG attempts on JJJ's line today and see that he got 18 points on 13 attempts....against a team no better than Northern Colorado..
Point was JJJ was aggressive in looking for his shot, just like Mayo is, as should all 2 guards.
Quote from: Ners on November 28, 2013, 09:37:51 PM
And I can promise you JJJ won't shoot 100% from the 3 point line all year too...I'd suspect to get 3 makes, on average JJJ will need 8 shots....which is still saying 42% from 3 for JJJ which is a great number...so, I'd put 5 more FG attempts on JJJ's line today and see that he got 18 points on 13 attempts....against a team no better than Northern Colorado..
Point was JJJ was aggressive in looking for his shot, just like Mayo is, as should all 2 guards.
Sultan is absolutely right. JJJ took shots within the offense which is why he shot so well today. There was only one shot that I would've considered "lucky" to have fallen for him, and it was a drive where he got bumped away from the bucket and made a high floater off of the glass. Other than that all of his shots were in rhythm and in the flow of the offense. Todd far too often goes into 1-on-1 NBA mode in the college game, where you actually need to run an offense to consistently score points. JJJ did not do that. Today Todd did not do that. I am hoping for more of that.
Quote from: Ners on November 28, 2013, 09:37:51 PM
And I can promise you JJJ won't shoot 100% from the 3 point line all year too...I'd suspect to get 3 makes, on average JJJ will need 8 shots....which is still saying 42% from 3 for JJJ which is a great number...so, I'd put 5 more FG attempts on JJJ's line today and see that he got 18 points on 13 attempts....against a team no better than Northern Colorado..
Point was JJJ was aggressive in looking for his shot, just like Mayo is, as should all 2 guards.
The point is that Mayo is a chucker and so far, JJJ isn't. He played smoothly and took good shots within the offense today. His defense and attitude will determine how much he plays in conference.
Quote from: tower912 on November 28, 2013, 08:36:59 PM
When his ankle recovers..... with JJJ's progress and JThomas and JWilson finding their strokes, suddenly the offense doesn't look so bad.
His ankle was fine at the game today. He missed defensive assignments and Buzz yanked him right out. He never got into the flow at all. Buzz has him on a really short leash. The better JJ plays the less time Mayo will get because Buzz seems settled on DW/JT starting with JJ first guard off the bench now..
We'll see tomorrow. If JJJ has 2 good games in a row then I might buy in to some of the hype, but more likely he'll do what freshman typically do and clang a few and lose confidence. But that's OK because Mayo's ankle will have another day to heal so he can pick up the slack. Mayo might play more within the offence at 80% health...
still very early in the season we may be seeing the evolution of a really nice inside outside combo if the shots are falling at a reasonable percentage. jjj's outside shot and slash inside to dish, jamil's inside/outside game, oj's outside game=lots of combinations. then you add davante campin underneath... nice core of execution could allow us to forget about the ohio state game real fast. i still have hope in jt's shot goin down as he gains some confidence back as the aforementioned opens things up. buzz will bring us one well oiled machine that could be hard to stop. buzz is not a quitter, so neither will his players. giving gwu their first loss will be huge game to build upon
So is his ankle okay or what?
I'd rather see Mayo sit today and get fully up to par, especially if this JJJ fellow can hold his own.
I think we'll need Mayo's firepower against Creighton (assuming they can spank SDSU like they did ASU)
gwu is gonna be a good test/barometer of where we are. i would have loved to played arizona st. again on a neutral floor
Quote from: Ners on November 28, 2013, 09:37:51 PM
And I can promise you JJJ won't shoot 100% from the 3 point line all year too...I'd suspect to get 3 makes, on average JJJ will need 8 shots....which is still saying 42% from 3 for JJJ which is a great number...so, I'd put 5 more FG attempts on JJJ's line today and see that he got 18 points on 13 attempts....against a team no better than Northern Colorado..
Point was JJJ was aggressive in looking for his shot, just like Mayo is, as should all 2 guards.
Of course the only difference was that JJJ was much more efficient on how he got his results. Todd is a volume shooter, which is fine if they are within the flow of the offense. Now I am not saying that JJJ is going to do this every game, and he very well might have a clunker today, but he pretty much did something yesterday that Todd hasn't done in 2+ years.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on November 29, 2013, 07:56:36 AM
So is his ankle okay or what?
I'd rather see Mayo sit today and get fully up to par, especially if this JJJ fellow can hold his own.
I think we'll need Mayo's firepower against Creighton (assuming they can spank SDSU like they did ASU)
He looked fine at the game. He ran all the pre game drills. Never saw a trainer near him all afternoon so I really doubt the "injury" excuse for his playing time. I think Buzz is just not happy with his effort.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 28, 2013, 09:01:07 PM
That just isn't true. Mayo has only once scored more than the 18 than JJJ scored today...v. Northern Colorado when he was a freshman. But Todd needed 15 shots to get his 22 points that day....JJJ only needed 8 to get his 18.
I could argue that Todd has *never* matched JJJ's performance today when you combine efficiency and production. But that must certainly is NOT how "Mayo typically plays."
Actually not true. I realize it seems like forever ago with all the Derrick sucks, Jake sucks, Dawson should be starting, Jamil needs to be assertive threads we've had going on, but Todd scored 20 in the season opener against Southern and did it on only 8 shots. Their respective (fairly similar) lines:
JJJ v CSF: 27 min, 18 pts, 6/8 FGA, 3/3 3PA, 3 Ast, 2 Reb, 1 Stl, 1 Blk
Todd v Southern: 23 min, 20 pts, 5/8 FGA, 2/4 3PA, 1 Ast, 5 Reb, 2 Stl, 1 Blk
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2013, 09:33:34 AM
Actually not true. I realize it seems like forever ago with all the Derrick sucks, Jake sucks, Dawson should be starting, Jamil needs to be assertive threads we've had going on, but Todd scored 20 in the season opener against Southern and did it on only 8 shots. Their respective (fairly similar) lines:
JJJ v CSF: 27 min, 18 pts, 6/8 FGA, 3/3 3PA, 3 Ast, 2 Reb, 1 Stl, 1 Blk
Todd v Southern: 23 min, 20 pts, 5/8 FGA, 2/4 3PA, 1 Ast, 5 Reb, 2 Stl, 1 Blk
I stand corrected. I obviously missed it.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2013, 09:46:00 PM
Sultan is absolutely right. JJJ took shots within the offense which is why he shot so well today. There was only one shot that I would've considered "lucky" to have fallen for him, and it was a drive where he got bumped away from the bucket and made a high floater off of the glass. Other than that all of his shots were in rhythm and in the flow of the offense. Todd far too often goes into 1-on-1 NBA mode in the college game, where you actually need to run an offense to consistently score points. JJJ did not do that. Today Todd did not do that. I am hoping for more of that.
Love this new cliche - taking shots within the offense. JJJ shot two of this threes yesterday standing stationary, with a man in his face - hardly "within the offense." I actually found that most impressive because he can get those shots off anytime, as they weren't wide open looks created off someone else's great pass or penetration.
But, just to be clear, when JJJ reverts into a 42% 3 point shooter, and goes 3 for 8 from the 3, and doesn't get a lucky hoop throwing a ball off the top of the backboard - and his shooting percentage comes down to 35-40% which is where it likely will be for the year - we can all point back to the CSF game as the last time JJJ "took shots within the offense." Okay. 2 guards need to be able to create, take and make shots...period...something Jake Thomas simply cannot do. Mayo and JJJ need all the minutes from the 2 spot.
Has Buzz installed the offense yet?
I know this is a Mayo thread and I've enjoyed the JJJ vs. Mayo analysis but I wonder how Buzz utilizes JT as the other two continue to emerge? Let's assume that eventually both Mayo and JJJ are getting most of the 40 minutes at the #2. Is it possible that JT slides into the Lockett position which then evolves into a good team defense spot, a good rebounding spot and with the added benefit of an emerging 3-pt threat that simply must be covered by the opponent? Do JT and Juan split that time understanding that Deonte is waiting in the wings?
I understand as well as anyone that JT has limited upside. But I must say that apart from his early shootings woes he has played reasonably well in other aspects of his game, especially when he's not required to be 'the man'.
Quote from: jsglow on November 29, 2013, 10:22:56 AM
I know this is a Mayo thread and I've enjoyed the JJJ vs. Mayo analysis but I wonder how Buzz utilizes JT as the other two continue to emerge? Let's assume that eventually both Mayo and JJJ are getting most of the 40 minutes at the #2. Is it possible that JT slides into the Lockett position which then evolves into a good team defense spot, a good rebounding spot and with the added benefit of an emerging 3-pt threat that simply must be covered by the opponent? Do JT and Juan split that time understanding that Deonte is waiting in the wings?
I understand as well as anyone that JT has limited upside. But I must say that apart from his early shootings woes he has played reasonably well in other aspects of his game, especially when he's not required to be 'the man'.
Jake is a specialist, a questionable specialist. Can not take the ball to the hoop and is a step slow, great looking shot that normally does not go in. Rather let Mayo and JJJ get some more PT time and even play both at the same time, depending on match-ups. Juan just is another offensive liability, I wonder if he looks for shots in practice or makes any of them, he has to be frustrated as well. Not sure what will help him but the best remedy is make an outside shot to get some confidence. Need scoring from those positions, if that happens and Jamil is playing
well, the team can withstand having Derrick being the point then. It is a shame about Duane, he might have been a game changer. Hope he can play a game or two before the league starts.
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 29, 2013, 12:48:51 AM
His ankle was fine at the game today. He missed defensive assignments and Buzz yanked him right out. He never got into the flow at all. Buzz has him on a really short leash. The better JJ plays the less time Mayo will get because Buzz seems settled on DW/JT starting with JJ first guard off the bench now..
What happens at the point when Derrick goes out with JJ first guard off the bench?
Quote from: LittleMurs on November 29, 2013, 11:36:40 AM
What happens at the point when Derrick goes out with JJ first guard off the bench?
Jamil has been playing the point for the 2-3 minutes that Derrick hasn't. Except for the second half of Fullerton when Dawson played.
Quote from: LittleMurs on November 29, 2013, 11:36:40 AM
What happens at the point when Derrick goes out with JJ first guard off the bench?
Jamil Wilson or Dawson, exactly what you saw yesterday.
Quote from: Ners on November 29, 2013, 09:41:31 AM
But, just to be clear, when JJJ reverts into a 42% 3 point shooter, and goes 3 for 8 from the 3, and doesn't get a lucky hoop throwing a ball off the top of the backboard - and his shooting percentage comes down to 35-40% which is where it likely will be for the year - we can all point back to the CSF game as the last time JJJ "took shots within the offense." Okay. 2 guards need to be able to create, take and make shots...period...something Jake Thomas simply cannot do. Mayo and JJJ need all the minutes from the 2 spot.
Vander shot 39.4% his freshman year. If JJJ shoots below 40% for the year, I would be shocked.