VCU looses to two unranked teams in the PR tipoff. Gergetown 84 - VCU 80
Good for them and the conference. They needed it after a couple tough losses.
Excellent news for the BEast. Good work GTown
Gtown fans were chanting "over-rated." For some reason that's one of my favorite chants to hear in college basketball.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on November 24, 2013, 05:18:44 PM
Gtown fans were chanting "over-rated." For some reason that's one of my favorite chants to hear in college basketball.
As long as we're not the road team, I agree ;D
61 fouls in that game and 43 turnovers. A pillar of efficiency.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on November 24, 2013, 05:18:44 PM
Gtown fans were chanting "over-rated."
About their own program??
Quote from: keefe on November 24, 2013, 06:04:33 PM
About their own program??
No, about VCU. Late in the game when VCU was at the line.
Never buy the VCU hype. Always, always overrated. Of course they're going to win a ton of games. Look who they play.
Solid win. Obviously VCU isn't actually a top 10 team, but it still looks good. I guess I'm glad we got our wake up game against an inferior opponent in November against NorthEastern instead of in March.
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on November 24, 2013, 09:29:36 PM
Solid win. Obviously VCU isn't actually a top 10 team, but it still looks good. I guess I'm glad we got our wake up game against an inferior opponent in November against NorthEastern instead of in March.
Still plenty of game left for that one.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on November 24, 2013, 05:18:44 PM
Gtown fans were chanting "over-rated." For some reason that's one of my favorite chants to hear in college basketball.
The worst chant ever.
Quote from: PTM on November 24, 2013, 11:03:06 PM
The worst chant ever.
Agreed. It devalues your team's win by loudly announcing that the team you just beat isn't quite that good, and as such, the win is really not that significant.
Quote from: PTM on November 24, 2013, 11:03:06 PM
The worst chant ever.
Last Saturday St. Joes was doing that cheer at the 12 minute mark of the FIRST HALF when they were up 10 against Creighton. Of course we went on to beat them. Idiotic.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 24, 2013, 06:48:45 PM
Never buy the VCU hype. Always, always overrated. Of course they're going to win a ton of games. Look who they play.
That's sort of a broad-brush, isn't it?
I'll admit my bias upfront: I currently attend VCU. The thing I love about both Marquette and VCU, though, is that Buzz and Shaka have a very similar philosophy: get your team ready for conference play with the early season games and play your best ball come tournament time. VCU certainly isn't a top-10 team, perhaps not even top 25. But the statement "always, always overrated" is just silly at best. The A10 is also a top-5 conference for RPI as it stands right now and VCU has a higher SOS rating than Marquette.
VCU has all the pieces. Marquette has all the pieces. I think this season will be an exciting one for both of my teams.
Quote from: Wisco on November 25, 2013, 09:03:17 AM
That's sort of a broad-brush, isn't it?
I'll admit my bias upfront: I currently attend VCU. The thing I love about both Marquette and VCU, though, is that Buzz and Shaka have a very similar philosophy: get your team ready for conference play with the early season games and play your best ball come tournament time. VCU certainly isn't a top-10 team, perhaps not even top 25. But the statement "always, always overrated" is just silly at best. The A10 is also a top-5 conference for RPI as it stands right now and VCU has a higher SOS rating than Marquette.
VCU has all the pieces. Marquette has all the pieces. I think this season will be an exciting one for both of my teams.
I stopped reading when I saw that you had two favorite teams. You have no cred since I can't take sports bigamists seriously.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on November 25, 2013, 09:36:36 AM
I stopped reading when I saw that you had two favorite teams. You have no cred since I can't take sports bigamists seriously.
Fortunately I've stayed loyal to all of my Wisconsin sports teams through the years. And fortunately I have been reading this board long enough to understand what teal means!
Quote from: wadesworld on November 24, 2013, 06:48:45 PM
Never buy the VCU hype. Always, always overrated. Of course they're going to win a ton of games. Look who they play.
Havoc is a fraud and they're going to get hurt with the new hand rules. That was 80% their defense.
Quote from: Aughnanure on November 25, 2013, 09:45:19 AM
Havoc is a fraud and they're going to get hurt with the new hand rules. That was 80% their defense.
Fraud? That's quite a strong word. There seems to be plenty of loaded language being flung around in this thread.
We still lead the nation in steals and opponent turnovers per game. In fact, our steal percentage has increased. Our steal/foul ratio is down as well. That is the entire point of Havoc - to generate turnovers and disrupt the opponents gameplan. Pomeroy has us top 30 in defensive efficiency.
Very little has changed. Jay Bilas, whether you like him or not, looked into it and tweeted about this fact. Our half-court defense and shooting are what have been suspect. The vast majority of the fouls are coming in the half-court.
Against FSU, VCU took 21 more shots, turned them over 11 more times and committed only 4 more fouls. Against G'town, VCU attempted 15 more shots, turned them over 9 more times and committed 3 less fouls. What in the world does that have to do with Havoc?
What you describe as a "fraud" has led us to three consecutive tournament appearances, all of them with at least one win, including a Final Four appearance.
So, in summation, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. How is it specifically affecting VCU? Please provide details, stats, ect.
Don't mind them Wisco. There is a contingent of scoopers who for some reason are hellbent on adding teams like Richmond or Dayton to the BEast over VCU. They take any opportunity to point out VCU's flaws. The funny thing is you don't even need to point any flaws to see why teams like Richmond/Dayton are awful
Quote from: Wisco on November 25, 2013, 09:58:57 AM
Fraud? That's quite a strong word. There seems to be plenty of loaded language being flung around in this thread.
We still lead the nation in steals and opponent turnovers per game. In fact, our steal percentage has increased. Our steal/foul ratio is down as well. That is the entire point of Havoc - to generate turnovers and disrupt the opponents gameplan. Pomeroy has us top 30 in defensive efficiency.
Very little has changed. Jay Bilas, whether you like him or not, looked into it and tweeted about this fact. Our half-court defense and shooting are what have been suspect. The vast majority of the fouls are coming in the half-court.
Against FSU, VCU took 21 more shots, turned them over 11 more times and committed only 4 more fouls. Against G'town, VCU attempted 15 more shots, turned them over 9 more times and committed 3 less fouls. What in the world does that have to do with Havoc?
What you describe as a "fraud" has led us to three consecutive tournament appearances, all of them with at least one win, including a Final Four appearance.
So, in summation, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. How is it specifically affecting VCU? Please provide details, stats, ect.
Dude, relax. My problem with Havoc is that it is a foul-first defense tactic that completely skews the officiating and gets away with murder. The amount of times over the past years I've seen VCU guards get away with pulling, tugging, and hitting a guards arm while driving up is insane. Its not a coincidence the defense sucks in half court and the offense is below-average when they can't get turnovers. It's a fraud to me because its not actually good defense, but a system that takes advantages of officiating flaws.
And seriously, never use a game's foul counts as an objective measure of a team's actual fouls.
Quote from: Aughnanure on November 25, 2013, 10:50:06 AM
Dude, relax. My problem with Havoc is that it is a foul-first defense tactic that completely skews the officiating and gets away with murder. The amount of times over the past years I've seen VCU guards get away with pulling, tugging, and hitting a guards arm while driving up is insane. Its not a coincidence the defense sucks in half court and the offense is below-average when they can't get turnovers. It's a fraud to me because its not actually good defense, but a system that takes advantages of officiating flaws.
And seriously, never use a game's foul counts as an objective measure of a team's actual fouls.
I apologize if I came up as wound-up. It just frustrates me when people use baseless language such as "always, always overrated" and "fraud" without backing it up.
It seems as though you have a philosophical disagreement with Havoc. That is perfectly acceptable and I won't argue with it.
Quote from: Wisco on November 25, 2013, 11:12:01 AM
I apologize if I came up as wound-up. It just frustrates me when people use baseless language such as "always, always overrated" and "fraud" without backing it up.
It seems as though you have a philosophical disagreement with Havoc. That is perfectly acceptable and I won't argue with it.
You're good. I can come off too opinionated at times. I just really hated seeing that. Butler got absolutely manhandled last year at VCU (along with a bunch of other teams), and I thought it was insane what VCU gets away with.
That being said, Georgetown is the most well-known program for exploiting how fouls are called (and how many). They essentially created the "well they can't call everything" philosophy back in the 80s which slowly allowed more and more hand and body fouls over the last 20 years (not that other teams *Duke* didn't catch up). I'm hoping the new rules help.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 25, 2013, 10:40:34 AM
Don't mind them Wisco. There is a contingent of scoopers who for some reason are hellbent on adding teams like Richmond or Dayton to the BEast over VCU. They take any opportunity to point out VCU's flaws. The funny thing is you don't even need to point any flaws to see why teams like Richmond/Dayton are awful
I'm certainly understanding of it. I've gotten some flak on the VCU boards as well for supporting "one of those Big East teams." It comes with the territory. I'd love nothing more than to see the two teams I cheer for end up in the same conference. Many others will have concerns with it and understandably so. I can empathize with both sides: the Marquette fan who doesn't want to add a large public institution just emerging from mid-major status and the VCU fan that doesn't want to shed their underdog status and join the "enemy." John Pudner (bamamarquettefan) is also a VCU/Marquette fan. I'm sure he feels the same.
I for one think adding VCU has more long-term benefits than Richmond or Dayton, but I'm almost positive no one here expected me to say anything different.
Quote from: Aughnanure on November 25, 2013, 11:21:08 AM
That being said, Georgetown is the most well-known program for exploiting how fouls are called (and how many). They essentially created the "well they can't call everything" philosophy back in the 80s which slowly allowed more and more hand and body fouls over the last 20 years (not that other teams *Duke* didn't catch up). I'm hoping the new rules help.
Well put and I agree entirely with this. I believe Gottlieb had written early this season that the 'Havoc' helped push the new emphasis on the hand-checking.
Quote from: Wisco on November 25, 2013, 11:22:13 AM
I for one think adding VCU has more long-term benefits than Richmond or Dayton, but I'm almost positive no one here expected me to say anything different.
ABD.
If VCU wants in, I want their buyout to be much larger. My only point of contention with VCU is the football possibility down the road.
Quote from: Wisco on November 25, 2013, 11:22:13 AM
I'm certainly understanding of it. I've gotten some flak on the VCU boards as well for supporting "one of those Big East teams." It comes with the territory. I'd love nothing more than to see the two teams I cheer for end up in the same conference. Many others will have concerns with it and understandably so. I can empathize with both sides: the Marquette fan who doesn't want to add a large public institution just emerging from mid-major status and the VCU fan that doesn't want to shed their underdog status and join the "enemy." John Pudner (bamamarquettefan) is also a VCU/Marquette fan. I'm sure he feels the same.
I for one think adding VCU has more long-term benefits than Richmond or Dayton, but I'm almost positive no one here expected me to say anything different.
And, let us not forget, VCU has a quality men's soccer program. Right now The Big East is pretty much alone as being the conference where
all the member schools have a quality men's soccer program.
Quote from: LittleMurs on November 25, 2013, 11:30:25 AM
And, let us not forget, VCU has a quality men's soccer program. Right now The Big East is pretty much alone as being the conference where all the member schools have a quality men's soccer program.
This is true. Although Navy trounced us in the first round of the NCAA's, things are looking up. There are long-term plans to build an "athletic village" behind our basketball arena. This would include the already-approved basketball practice facility along with an on-campus soccer/lacrosse/track stadium. Baseball and tennis are strong points as well.